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poohman

Had Subcision/Nlite, TCA from Dr. R

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I had the procedures done Monday and Tuesday.

Originally I wasn't going to do the Nlite, I was skeptical of lasers, though I only mentioned "limited resources" as the reason.

Dr. R's advice was, if money is an issue, save up until you can do the treatment properly, ie. with the laser. So I had the laser. I figured I would get talked into it in the end.... any way, at least now I can see what the whole package can do for me, and compare these results and price with what I have already done to date for my face....

Its been three days and I'm still bruised though not badly - it has more to do with the number of scars treated then bad bruising. The TCA spots are pretty red, but they are small spots.

I was glad to see scarredfor life reporting good results after 45 days for the same treatment....

As for Dr. R, he was pretty much as I expected...he does seem very confident and knowledgeable and seems driven to get the best results possible for people, he's constantly trying and testing and thinking about new methods, he explained to me the thought process that led him to start doing Nlite with subcision, and he also told me he's going over in his mind how artecoll will fit into future treatments when it is available (apparantly I was the first of his patients to have had artecoll..).

So the doctor seems motivated by results, though I'd describe these as clinical results, not so much results for the sake of making his patients feel better about themselves. Clinical is fine with me though - that should be the bottom line, especially when forking over this kind of money.

I'll keep you all posted on my progress...

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Congrats! poohman =D>

What kind of scaring do you have? Is is shallow/moderate/severe?

Thanks! :D

Also did your doc say that multiple sessions were needed?

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Well unfortunately the doctor used the term extensive to describe my scarring, and I'd have to agree. Most of these are not that deep, but there are so may of them... and then I do have several deep rolling scars especially on one side... I also have chicken pox scars, and even if I never had acne, these would have been pretty bad. So I pretty much have it all, though I have seen people much worse than me, albeit rarely.

Dr. says usually at least two sessions are needed for optimum results.

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Also, one thing I like about the treatment I just had was he treated every single scar. He takes out a marker, blue for subcision, red for TCA peel. Then he has his people organized into a blue team and a red team. Its like scar removal factory. When I had artecoll the doctor didn't mark anything, making it harder to hit the right spots, though he mostly did a good job. But with Artecoll I spent $1800, but had to make certain scars priority and leave the rest alone. With the subcsion/Nlite/ TCA I spent $1600 and the goal is to treat every single scar on your face.

With the number of scars I have, I commented to the doctor that I was really getting my moneys worth. (think about it - someone with three scars would pay the same price as me). To this comment the doctor said, "No, you get your moneys worth when you see improvement...." I thought that was cool.

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Then he has his people organized into a blue team and a red team.  Its like scar removal factory.  

Wow!!

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Yeah a doc true blue marker over my scar once. The d#@k i couldn't get it off and i had to rub it off with an alcohol swab which made it look and feel twice as bad. He decided to scribble on my face like he was playing a game or doing a caricature and he wonders why i still haven't paid him!

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Yes, except the laser, which is done the next day. With the laser they don't want you to do it to soon after the subcision and they don't want you waiting to long becasue then it worthless.

I'll update in my progress in a couple of weeks.

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That's great Pooh!

I started out wanting to get treated by Dr. Rapaport as he is 6 hours from me. But I found out about Dr. McDaniel, who is 2 hours from me and really is just as good as Dr. Rapaport.

I've always been impressed with Dr. Rapaport. He is the only person I would let near me to do subcision, probably.

Please keep us updated.

Now, though, since discovering someone who does needling, I see no reason to go to Dr. McDaniel. I figure I've saved buckoo bucks. :)/ :D

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Denise2,

Where is your doctor located? Also what kind of treatments does he do?

If I could find someone closer and cheaper I'd love it. I'm about two hours south of Rapaport.

Can you give me an idea of his prices?

Thanks.

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Pooh, I live in Virginia, and drove to D.C. to get my needling done by a lady named Lilian who does permanent makeup and tattooing.

So she's not really my "doctor".

I covered it all in the needling thread, the last few pages, if you want to catch up.

I decided a long time ago to be very pro-active with my treatments and do my own research and make my own unbiased decisions. Doctors want to talk you into things that aren't good for you, and that's not good. Therefore, while I have a regular dermatologist I go to for my Retin A, I've gone to OTHER doctors to get my TCA peel, microderm, etc.....

When I was thinking about needling, Beth recommended I do a search for permanent makeup artist people who were familiar with needling and e-mail them and ask them about the procedure. That's how I found Lilian. And since she was only two hours from me, I decided to go get my needling done through her.

Hope that helps.

In about 8 weeks you should know the results of your subcision. I bet you do really well with that! Dr. Rapaport is VERY GOOD at what he does. Dr. McDaniel is in Virginia Beach and is one of the best there is. He even trains other doctors on the use of lasers and scar revision techniques. He also refunds money when you don't get the full results you want. He is a very ethical, kind doctor. Many people like him a lot.

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Thanks for asking...

It's been almost exactly six weeks since my subcision/spot TCA peel.

There are some smaller rolling scars improved quite a bit, like maybe 50%, the larger, deeper rolling scars unfortunately only improved in the 20% to 30% range. Some of my depressions that fit the catagory of "soft and rolling" didn't seem to improve at all. I'm convinced its because there is simply no tissue tethering these ones down. Its just a depression for whatever reason. I don't think subcision would ever help these ones, and they'll only respond to a filler.

As for the TCA peel, it clearly works too, as I can now see the bottom of a couple ice pick scars that were done. The improvement wasn't drastic, but it was there. I don't think I'll pay anyone to do these to me again, as the price is simply ridiculous ($950 I think, if not done in conjunction w/ anything else.) I've started doing these on myself w/ high concentration glycolic acid and it appears to have the same effect - it scabs up and then (hopefully) collegan growth.

So was it worth $1600?? I guess it depends on what money means to you. I'm glad I did it, I'm just not sure the price is right. $650 for a subcision of an entire scar filled face seems reasonable, but I'm still not sold on the idea that a couple of zaps of the Nlite laser does much, of course nobody can really prove it either way. (Rapaports evidence is anectdotal not scientific). And the spot TCA is reasonable at $$250 when its done w/ subcision , but not for the stand alone price. If you have to do four of those, it'll cost almost 4k. Thats silly, unless your rich.

I'd probably do subcision again sometime, but if I'm going to do a laser afterward I think I'd see if I could get 3 or 4 sessions of the Smoothbeam at a reasonable price, hopefully somewhere local. This might be a solid invesment cause it could treat any remaining acne I have or will have at the same time.

So now I'm off to get Artecoll done at the end of this week, this will be my second round of it. I'll let you all know how that goes - I anticipate this will push my overall improvement past 50% (if he injects it correctly that is). After that I'll likely have no more treatments for a while, other than home ones, because otherwise I'll go broke!

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Oh, just too add - I said I wouldn't get anymore treatments for a while after Artecoll - I may get needling at some point because its so cheap, but only if I see more encouraging news on it in the coming months. I can't get a handle on whether this is really working for people or not.

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Old old old, most at least ten years old.

By the way the improvement looked quite impressive today, and it was even sunny out.

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I think his theory is probably sound that Nlite improves the results a bit after subcision. The question is how much. He said to me the additional improvement it adds to subcision alone is about 30%. He suggested that that the Nlite actually zeroes in on the inflamed/damaged tissue afer the subcision and supercharges the repaitr process. I just wonder how much good one session really does.

If the Nlite does improve the subcision, I would think it would do the same thing for the the repair process post TCA spot peel. Its all theory.

I asked the same question as you before I went in - to do the laser or not, and there's no good answer. If your coming from far away you may want to just do it all, and hope that it cuts down the number of time you have to go back.

For me, at least now I know what the results are from the whole package and I can decide what to do from here... Good luck to you.

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asked the same question as you before I went in - to do the laser or not, and there's no good answer. If your coming from far away you may want to just do it all, and hope that it cuts down the number of time you have to go back.

**Wondering if Dr Rapaport has a big laser bill to pay**

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Hmmm... I wonder if the results are different if you get the N-lite before the subcision? Cos I had N-Lite 1 hour before the subcision.

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Maya - all I know is Rappaports prefered method is doing it after the skin has been "damaged" by by the subcision. He also thinks you shouldn't wait more than a day or two after the subcision for the best effect.

As to Rapaports "laser bill" - my guess is that his capital costs are covered and he's well into profit mode now.

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poohman - yes, it kind of makes sense to have the N-lite after subcision but I'm glad I got it chucked in anyway.

Dr R must make an enormous profit - Dr Chu (who I had my procedures done with) said that for 1 session of N-Lite, it costs them £10 (around US$15) towards the cost of the cartridge.

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