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Regarding the euro - probably in time but not any time soon. In fact it seems Gordon Brown will announce that we have not yet met his conditions for joining thus ruling out a referendum in the near future.

As for the constitution - In time i think the euro and the constitution will go hand in hand it will be impossible to be in one without the other. Personally im not sure if i like the idea of super state certain people seemed to have planned but at the same time i think the British public need to make an informed choice based on the facts and figures. Where politicians are involved this is unlikely to be possible unfortunately.

I will say though if this proposed constitution ends up half as important and far reaching as certain sections of the media are making out then the British public simply must have there say in a referendum.

Adam

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Guest fatman_uk

I don't wanna change what my money looks like just coz Tony Blair wants to be assfucked by the other european leaders, why the hell should i? [-X =; [-(

BTW, i got change at a petrol station this week an realised when i got home that i'd recieved a 20 Euro cent coin instead of a £1 coin, which is about 5p isn't it. Which makes me even more hateful towards the dam EURO! ARRRGGHHH!!! #-o ](*,)

-Gaz

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I like the european constitution but i think we should keep the pound.

At least with the constitution we would have freedom of speach again.

But a weak currency wouldent be so good.

Daisy

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I often wonder if the vehemently anti-euro protesters have ever left the UK? I travel a lot, mostly in Europe and the convenience of having one currency can not be under-estimated. I am always annoyed when I return to the UK and suddenly I have a fistful of useless money and if I want to change it into sterling I have to pay my bank a processing fee and then I loose even more due to the exchange rates.

To all those who see the Euro as weak and feel safer with a strong sterling, let me ask you this. Do you own a small business? Because if you did you would know that Sterling is making trading with the UK very expensive for the rest of Europe. Thus the UK businesses have to open up Euro bank accounts to stay afloat, why not just use the Euro.

Finally if you are worried that the UK's sense of national identity and heritage will be lost along with the pound, then I would say that if our national pride rests on something as insignificant as the currency we use, then we have already lost it.

I'd be interested to hear your views. O:)

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The euro is usefull for traveling but i was thinking of the pound for my own purpose. Which would be using its strengh and the changing exchange rate to profit. Plus it helps when going abroud and buying things from other coutnrys since the pound is worth alot more. But I think adpting the euro will happen.

As for the constitution whats the point now? Blair as already replaced half of it with his own brand of BS. I want to have the same basic rights as everyone else in eupore. As for natinal identity we have already lost it we lost it when we sighned up for NATO.

Daisy

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No offence to the British people here although this will probably cause a little stir...but the majority of the British love that wrinkly old bitch known as the queen....talk about living in a one dimensional world(the queen that is). You people pay for her palace...im sure you know that. I dont think you will change to the Euro cos its unethical in the majoritys eyes(the british of course). As far as international trade is concerned and tourism your clearly losing out...thats evident. When i go to Old trafford to watch Utd play, i used to go over with the lads and stay in a fancy hotel for the night, now i dont bother, its Ryanair out and Ryanair back. Screw the hotel. In my eyes, i love the Euro cos i go to france and germany and all over Europe and i dont need to change any money...it really is conveniant. Plus since you guys have that euro train thing going directly to france in 30 minutes, and the fact that Netherlands is a few hours away driving, i dont know how you arent in it...i dont think i will understand either. it seems a good option for me.

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50Cent - You talk as if the British people have actually decided not to enter the euro therefore explaining to us all the apparent things we are missing out on. The actual case is that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has at this time decided that Euro entry is out of the question therefore we get denied our referendum. So we haven't decided against anything yet.

And as far as that "wrinkly old bitch" goes well im no royalist but in this instance im going to stick up for her. You talk about how much we pay for her palaces yet you appear to have given no thought to just how much tourism those buildings and the whole royalty thing brings to the UK. Take a walk round London or Windsor see for yourself all the people snapping away on there cameras. They all got to sleep somewhere while they are here, they all got to eat in the restaurants. Maybe the old girl, and the history that her family brings, as well as our other old buildings actually bring the UK some money. You ever think of that ?

Right now as far as the Euro itself goes im no sceptic. I want the debate up and running as soon as possible so we can get the decision made. Apart from anything else the uncertainty must be hurting business.

adastra - Good point about small business. I saw a representative for small business on TV the other night. Basically saying the same as you. She just was anxious to get the debate started so they could get on with winning the public over. This is what we need a good debate and then a vote ...end of story.

Finally if you are worried that the UK's sense of national identity and heritage will be lost along with the pound, then I would say that if our national pride rests on something as insignificant as the currency we use, then we have already lost it.
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True the tourism it creates is still big...but not as big as it was before the euro was introduced. A decrease in tourism has occured due to the euro and also the rest of that crap that happened like 911 and foot and mouth etc but still...look man, if you guys had the euro, id be over every fucken week watching my favourite football team play...and i think you guys would come over here a lot more...i hope you get it...it wud be so sweet.

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Guest Crooked I

50, did prices go up by a lot when ROI adopted the Euro or was that just rubbish?

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crooked i it could have a bit...but not much. it was great for people like who buy dvd's on the net and games and shit. and i can go around europe with one currency. that rules.

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Guest
Why should a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels have any power over any person in any country?
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Guest

Why does it matter if they are elected or not? That is a laughable argument.

As far as the whole Euro/EU debate is concerned, the comments in this thread crack me up. It's all going downhill...

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Why does it matter if they are elected or not? That is a laughable argument. 

As far as the whole Euro/EU debate is concerned, the comments in this thread crack me up. It's all going downhill...

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Because people expect democracy frankly whether you happen to like it or not. People need to feel in touch with the powers that be, they need to be able to know they can change things if needed. In short its what people have come to expect (witness the clamour for devolution in the UK) and if people are to want to get further into Europe then its what needs to happen to convince them to do so. You see you don't even have to call it democracy or talk about what is or isn't the natural order of things. Its just a matter of recognising that to the average person in the street the disconnected almost veiled nature of the EU is a hindrance to their acceptance of it...i know i speak to them (again talking about UK).

Aristocracy = rule by the best
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In your previous post you asked "Why does it matter if they are elected or not?". My response to that was that it’s what people expect. Now I don't believe that democracy is necessarily the holy grail it is made out to be by any stretch of the imagination. What good is a so called democracy when only 30% of the population bother to vote ? What good is a democracy when people hate both major parties equally ? etc etc But none of that means that if you took it away they wouldn't kick up a fuss.

What happened when the Prime Minister took the country into a war that a lot of people disagreed with - million people marched on London because they expected to have their say, they expected politics to be their business....and weren't they completely exasperated when they found that it didn't make a jot of difference and that he went and did it anyway. A failing of democracy or a sign that people do expect their voice to be heard ? .....and for it to make a difference.

The majority of people are lazy, apathetic, filthy, sheep-like and weak. Do you honestly think that \"People\" (capital P) are in touch with the \"powers that be\" now? They never have and never will be.
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Guest

>>>What happened when the Prime Minister took the country into a war that a lot of people disagreed with - million people marched on London because they expected to have their say, they expected politics to be their business....and weren't they completely exasperated when they found that it didn't make a jot of difference and that he went and did it anyway. A failing of democracy or a sign that people do expect their voice to be heard ? .....and for it to make a difference.

...And yet no difference was made. One cannot expect a revolution without revolutionaries, and revolutionary ideas...

>>>How do we ensure we get the best ? Who defines the best and for what situations ? What happens when people disagree with the best ? At what point do people stop believing they have a right to their say.

Well, this is getting close to the old "who will guard the guardians?" dilemma. I'm kind of busy right now, but if you want cool stuff on the nature of political aristocracy, I guess I'll post some stuff later.

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But my point was that they expected their say to make a difference, they expected to have their say. At what point in the near future does that mentality change to one that is likely to accept a political aristocracy unquestionably?

Why do you think so many countries have offered referenda to their citizens on the subject of Europe (whether it be the currency or the future constitution). Because they realise that if a Europe now or in the future is to work as planned then they have to take the people with them and to take the people with them they need to let them have their say.

At the moment if Europe in a political sense is deemed to be a closed environment filled with un-elected and unaccountable officials (something which even pro-Europe people are tending to agree with) will it be because those officials are the best of the best working in a political aristocracy ? Or will it be because they are ...well just that - unelected and unaccountable officials ?

Remember we are talking about Europe in the here and now and what is socially acceptable to the people not what might be best in theory.

I look forward to reading any information you have political aristocracy.

Adam

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