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Antony

Various Cultures' Diets VS Acne

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im not so sure, im beginning to think genes are the be all and end all, in most cases. If diet was such a big factor, then everyone who ate crap should get acne.... this just cant be overlooked really.

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Why is everyone so hung up on this?  It just isn't true.  Everyone who smokes doesn't get lung cancer.  Everyone who has a high cholesterol, high saturated fat diet doesn't get heart disease.  It's usually a COMBINATION of being genetically predisposed AND eating the wrong things.  Other people eat crap and it manifests as weight gain, allergies, type 2 diabetes, etc.

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im not so sure, im beginning to think genes are the be all and end all, in most cases. If diet was such a big factor, then everyone who ate crap should get acne.... this just cant be overlooked really.

The more i think about it, the more cordains sample (which is the only study that is really on the side of acne/diet) is no better that the chocolate bar study of the 80's. Is clear that the papua new guinea islanders are going to have a very narrow genetic background being an isolated regions... and although i talked about the ice-age above, that was 100,000yrs ago or something, which would actually leave enough time for substancial genetic shift.

(just putting forward ideas, not trying to be arrogant or argumentative or anyhthing).

And also, why is acne more prevelant in teenagers??- its not like they eat any worse than the rest of the population?

And i once read something about how you should never trust a dying scientist who writes a book about his work before he dies....likely to be incomplete and they are just trying to get their name in history before they go, if you know what i mean.

...im refering to cordain who' study lends massive support to the diet idea.

-however, you could say darwin was a dying man when he wrote his....he wasnt when he wrote it.

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This is a genuinely good dicussion.

Personally i think CJB has a point. I think diet really does effect acne and yes some people don't have acne. So obviously diet's not going to effect them is it? Antony- some great posts, theories and study. However, obviously data collected in a real world problem is always going to be flawed- it cannot be concluded that diet does not effect acne from this because everyone due to genes will react differently to the enviroment. Therefore its quite possible that alot of people there were experiencing adverse or even positive effects on their acne from the boarding school diet! confused? yes.

Also im interested in the mixed gene pool theory; it appears to make some sense. Imagine this- (not true but just an example) There are say 20 groups of people spread out throughout the world. All members of one group are exactly the same. However, comparing the groups we see that one group has a beautiful nose, another possess lovely eyes, another legs etc. So when you interbreed look you get SOME truly beautiful people- proving Antony's theory on the world's most beautiful people.

Ah but on the otherside of the coin you get some truly UGLY people due to the fact that every group will have bad characteristics. You could, i suppose, assume that one group was always perfect and that eventually perfection would be diluted but whatever- that has little relevence.

Ok so tight pores mixed with oily skin- well my mate has an italian (stereotype greasy heh) father and an english mother. Him and his brother have awful skin. Well if originally there was no acne and thats how acne came about or if there always was acne- it just got passed down who can say. Who cares?

As for the irish question- the answer is simply the well known phrase- the luck of the irish.

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Bloodcries- as long as you don't tell everyone this is DEFINITELY right to begin with its ok to change your mind. I think its called having an open and enquiring mind.

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Yh, so you not actually saying its a bad thing that he changed his mind? Sometimes its a bit hard to judge the implied tone of what people are saying as afterall its just text, so forgive me for assuming that you were bashing the guy for a fluctuation of opinion.

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I'm only putting forward ideas in this controversial area, im not anti diet or anti genes.

I cant make sense of your analogies here cjb... what exactly do they show???

Although not everyone who smokes gets lungs cancer, 98% of people with lung cancer, do smoke. Which strongly suggests, if you dont smoke, you dont get lung cancer. And how do you know not everyone gets lung cancer who smokes? I would disagree, and say that everyone who smokes does get lung... maybe they dont die of it, because maybe they die of some other disease first, but its still very possible that EVERYONE who smokes will experience mutations in the lungs. - just simply not all smokers die of it because they die of something else first.

So how does this relate to acne?

Not all people who eat crap get acne because they arent all predisposed to it. Makes sense i agree.

This therefore means that certain foods express certain genes which bring about physiological change and causes acne... agreed?

And some people are just not vulnerable to these foods and so can eat anything. Well it makes sense, i perfectly agree.

So can you help with me understanding here...

Howcome acne effects largely teenagers? and how come they can eat what they want before and after teenage years, without getting acne?

And do you have any idea how foods express certain genes?

And do you not accept that that at the same time, it is perfectly possible that foods plays little or no role in most cases of hormonal acne and that it is by and large a creation of genetics?

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Hmm... im 17 and have mild acne (hormonal) but diet definitely effects it. However, i will most likely grow out of acne and be able to eat what i like- its beginning to happen slowly i believe. It pretty hard to conclude anything like hormonal acne is not effected by diet from this though because people's reactions differ.

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Hmm... im 17 and have mild acne (hormonal) but diet definitely effects it. However, i will most likely grow out of acne and be able to eat what i like- its beginning to happen slowly i believe. It pretty hard to conclude anything like hormonal acne is not effected by diet from this though because people's reactions differ.

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So can you help with me understanding here...

Howcome acne effects largely teenagers? and how come they can eat what they want before and after teenage years, without getting acne?

And do you have any idea how foods express certain genes?

And do you not accept that that at the same time, it is perfectly possible that foods plays little or no role in most cases of hormonal acne and that it is by and large a creation of genetics?

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yeah, good post bexi, good point nicely put. I agree with you that acne shouldnt be a normal part of growing up, but it is in our distorted society, and it seems perfectly possible that the liver is the key.

But i think u can gues my next question : )

What makes some people have 'extra sensitive oil glands'?- which are ultimately what cause the acne? and what makes some people deal with the hormones better?

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And I see what you're getting at ! Yes, that does come down to genetics, or some sort of childhood experience that has lowered your liver function like anti-biotics - as I have already said you need to be predisposed to get it in the first place. So drawing from a discussion that I had with another acne.orger, sebum is sopposedly an evolutionary relic that goes back to the days when we were covered in hair,keeping it soft, supple and waterproof. So maybe people who get acne have common ancestors that came from a particualrly hairy genepool!! Being flippant here, but could be something to it.... biggrin.gif

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Ultimately, genetics underlies everything, but that does not mean that it is the be all and end all. It is similar to the whole nature nurture debate that you get in social sciences, and nine times out of ten people find that the two are inextricably linked. Environment and all its interplays truely can change the way that genes present themselves...

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Ultimately, genetics underlies everything, but that does not mean that it is the be all and end all. It is similar to the whole nature nurture debate that you get in social sciences, and nine times out of ten people find that the two are inextricably linked. Environment and all its interplays truely can change the way that genes present themselves...

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that's weird. the irish people i know seem to be the ones who have more trouble with acne then anyone else i know. they seem to get more bumps, but it doesn't look as bad cuz their pimples fade pink, while the hispanic people i know get less acne, but the marks are more noticeable because they have more melanin.

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i am curious, how many people have gotten actually 100% clear from dietary means? compare that with how many people are clear from sometthing even like the regimen

maybe you guys should actually try treating?

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i am curious, how many people have gotten actually 100% clear from dietary means? compare that with how many people are clear from sometthing even like the regimen

maybe you guys should actually try treating?

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yes, i've been 100% clear for over a year. not one pimple, whitehead, blackhead, anything.. and i just use bp 1x/day with some moisturizer in the morning. i tried everything before hand including diet and finally just started consistently using BP and all gone.

i am not discounting diet, but my belief is that diet does not CAUSE acne, but can aggrivate it.. despite what a lot of people here say, those that cannot treat their acne via topicals are in the minority.

having been around derms/colleagues constantly, a lot of patients get quite clear simply from topicals. of course, it's not a cure.. but acne can be contained quite well until one grows out of it

acne.org people who can't get clear via topicals are the minority in the world.

also, i believe that the stress most people here cause themselves over diet is affecting their acne moreso than drinking some milk or eating some chocolate. look at the posts here.. OMG I ATE A PIECE OF CAKE WHAT AM I GOING TO DO THIS SUCKS SO BAD!!! you know these people are stressing extremely over their acne which will have a pretyt large affect

a big part of becoming clear is just not worrying about it, IMO. i dont even think about it anymore. to me, it's just not apart of my life anymore and i think thats a big deal. stress and worry influenced my acne more than anything ever had sans hormones. people on this site are literally infatuated/obsessed with their acne, which is understandable but also quite counter productive for acne itself as well as mental health

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i think genetically determined oil gland receptor sensitivity is of paramount importance, but the liver is crucial for hormonal balance and general health, but I also think that another "hidden" factor in those who seemingly can eat whatever the hell they want without breaking out, besides simply less sensitive oil gland receptors, is that they have better digestive enzyme secretion as well.

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See, IMO, the other thing besides hormone regulation, etc... is normal keratinization. This is the hardest to control for acne suferers, and is the most effective when you do(You will always produce oil to some degree, you'll always have acne bacteria on your face, and you don't want to mess up the inflammation response too much). This is why when many adults use less products their skin normalizes, sheds evenly and they get clearer. This is also a good reason why people eat whatever they want and are clear because their skin sheds properly so no matter how oily your face gets, the pimple never forms. I suppose that this is an effect of hormone regulation, a consequence.

I know many adults, and young people who have clear skin and horrible digestion.

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See, IMO, the other thing besides hormone regulation, etc... is normal keratinization. This is the hardest to control for acne suferers, and is the most effective when you do(You will always produce oil to some degree, you'll always have acne bacteria on your face, and you don't want to mess up the inflammation response too much). This is why when many adults use less products their skin normalizes, sheds evenly and they get clearer. This is also a good reason why people eat whatever they want and are clear because their skin sheds properly so no matter how oily your face gets, the pimple never forms. I suppose that this is an effect of hormone regulation, a consequence.

I know many adults, and young people who have clear skin and horrible digestion.

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