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dermpatron

Acne and scars made me an Atheist

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Guest OrangeFlower
No, it is unrelated. I am talking about justification for beliefs.
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Guest OrangeFlower
I'm only 16 so I still am pretty immature about a lot of things
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Guest Shjaker

There's no 'proof' of God.. That's why this religion is more of a faith, belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

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there are many things that we 'believe' in or that we talk about which don't have adequate scientific justification

im really sorry that i cant think of any right now

but this is what logical positivism tried to do and failed

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Guest Shjaker
QUANTUM: hedging your bets using Pascal's Wager, i.e. if you believe in God and there is a God you go to heaven, if there isn't you will at least have led a moral and fulfilling life; if you don't believe in a God and there isn't a God you get off but if there is a God you go to hell. You overlook the fact that this wager has at least two crucial in-built assumptions that render it entirely unreliable as a basis for your belief and behavior. The first is that it assumes that the God in question is the one chosen to be worshipped according to a specialized creed and denomination, which by its nature professes to believe in only one specific deity and dogma over all others, and that this actual God does indeed even provide for a heaven and hell or equivalent in an afterlife or indeed an afterlife altogether; the second is the assumption that the specific criteria for what constitutes a heaven-worthy or hell-worthy existence has somehow been accurately grasped by whichever one of the countless faiths to choose from and that this reliably corresponds with the intentions and parameters of the real God. These inherent assumptions combined weaken the reliability of the odds that inform the wager to the point that the bet isn't so much a gamble as it's just tossing a poker chip into the casino lobby.

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First of all have u been in a muslim country? anyhow so ur saying that religion needs to suit ones needs inorder for it to be a sufficient relgion? or are you just trying to say that its hard for females to follow the islamic religion?

By the way, I have been to Egypt, Jordan, Dubai, Lebanon. All the countries have equal rights for women and men, but woman are often more conservative, note that there are so many females that walk around dressed in revealing clothing that dont get hassled by anyone. I used to think not bad but just not good about the muslims until I went and saw for myself, these people have such beautiful spirits its incredible. I have even learned a few things from them, before reading into their religion and everything I was rather disobedient and kind of selfish haha, now I think of highly of my attitude towards people.

TAKE CARE PEOPLE, and I hope that everyones acne disappears in time , and that its merely a phase that we all go threw. BYE

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because you are free to CHOOSE what the meaning of your existence will be instead of being cornered into a preordained place and purpose in the universe as pontificated to you by religion.

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sorry i didn't mean to write so much.

i sometimes look around me at the word and wonder where all this richness and complexity comes from and think there must be a god; then i see the suffering or at least arbitrariness of it all and think that the god cannot be necessarily benevolent, or must at least be indifferent. i see my watch and think that it was made by humans and then see my lover or mother with beating heart and whirring mind and think of the unfathomable advancement of the being that made her. it is the great mystery that drives us, and no debate will solve it because only death holds the answer... if we are thereafter even in a position to know. wink.gif

in the meantime this has been a bit heavygoing and i'm spending too much time on acne.org without needing to get into things non-acne-related as well!

amen.

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Guest OrangeFlower
There is a difference between analytic philosophy and logical positivism
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Guest OrangeFlower

im sorry that i dont have some kind of 'proof' i cant think like that off the top of my head. it has been a few years since ive been out of school.

so i shouldn't participate in this debate any longer -because it makes no sense for me to do so. i would just be rambling.

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STEEPLE: um, yeah, almost exactly like a christian, only minus christ, minus church, minus prayer, minus the bible, minus original sin, minus commandments, minus the nicene and apostles' creed, minus the sacraments, and minus collection baskets, but yes otherwise i'm basically a christian. biggrin.gif having a love of life and a sense of purpose and passion in one's existence without metaphysical belief doesn't make one a second-rate secular born-again; it makes one a human living valiantly in the face of absurdity. The sole remaining alternative to existentialism's own alternative to religion is nihilism; if you do not believe that it is even worthwhile to derive your own meaning in an inherently meaningless universe, then you are ipso facto arguing that non-existence is as worthwhile as existence. I don't believe this, do you?

MLAE: I don't know whether you are male or female and just what Best Western in Dubai you stayed at but I can assure that men and women most certainly do NOT have equal rights in Muslim countries, regardless of what Islam suggests on paper (incidentally there are no surviving copies of the Quran dating back to within a century after Mohammed's death-- this is extremely revealing). It espouses an absolutely beautiful sense of community and brotherhood, of humanism but unfortunately one increasingly limited to include only those humans who share a belief in Allah and Mohhamed PBOH, and it boasts a proud intellectual tradition albeit one that peaked in the 14th century.

Islam today is a magnificent faith for a man in a Muslim country, a politically challenging faith for a man in a Western country, a reasonable faith for a woman in a Western country, and a violation of human rights for a woman in a Muslim one.

You say that before finding Islam you were "disobedient". I assume you are referring to discovering the divine submission in the Arabic word from which Islam takes its name. But what were you disobedient to, and why do you believe that you are now a better person because you have learned to obey? Following Islam's own exhortation to question, do you not question why and what you are obeying? If you are a woman, have you discovered how to obey men and wear your hajib and abbaya in public lest you tempt married men into committing adultery against their better judgment, resulting in their chastisement and your execution, or if you are a man, have you learned how to obey your mullahs and ayatollahs? Does this give you a sense of purpose and direction in your life that you found you were lacking before?

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Guest OrangeFlower
You say that before finding Islam you were "disobedient". I assume you are referring to discovering the divine submission in the Arabic word from which Islam takes its name. But what were you disobedient to, and why do you believe that you are now a better person because you have learned to obey? Following Islam's own exhortation to question, do you not question why and what you are obeying? If you are a woman, have you discovered how to obey men and wear your hajib and abbaya in public lest you tempt married men into committing adultery against their better judgment, resulting in their chastisement and your execution, or if you are a man, have you learned how to obey your mullahs and ayatollahs? Does this give you a sense of purpose and direction in your life that you found you were lacking before?
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STEEPLE: um, yeah, almost exactly like a christian, only minus christ, minus church, minus prayer, minus the bible, minus original sin, minus commandments, minus the nicene and apostles' creed, minus the sacraments, and minus collection baskets, but yes otherwise i'm basically a christian. biggrin.gif
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Only morals that have pragmatic rather than theological value, so for example I would not kill because it violates the categorical imperative and I would not sleep with my neighbor's wife because she's a cow, but I am perfectly comfortable with using condoms and practising anal sex, preferably at the same time.

The fact that a secular moral life and a religious moral life overlap to such an extent just goes to show how morality is essentially grounded in common sense and does not require subscribing to a higher power to justify it.

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Guest OrangeFlower
but I am perfectly comfortable with using condoms and practising anal sex, preferably at the same time.
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Where did you get the idea of all of this, this is indeed in the quran, but its not taking place in any muslim country besides Saudi Arabia.

Anyways I am a male, and I didnt stay at any best western in dubai, realize the name of the hotel best WESTERN, so why wouldn that be in dubai? anyhow I dont understand how you can tell me that men and women dont have equal rights in those countries excluding saudi arabia. However it depends profoundly on your family, as they who are the people that would judge you and impose actions against you, but never will the government imprison u for not following the islamic religions rules.

In islam there are alot of rules that you have to obey no doubt about that but its for a reward and none of those rules are detrimental/hurtful in any way to us scientifically speaking i.e do you just graduate college or do you have to work hard, study hard and take tests inorder to graduate. Same with islam u have to take tests in this world and do as the quran specifies inorder to go to heaven.

Also if you are trying to show your vacabulary skills ur are doing it in the wrong segment, u should do so at a formal region in communication, not at acne.org

The true meaning to efficient communication is to be as clear as possible in conveying your message. Not confuse people.

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I just think it's sad that having something like acne, or any other disease that makes one suffer would cause one to turn away from God. That is when you need him most! I'm not going to speak in philosiphical terms, although I did enjoy philosophy and have studied about many religions, I have to say while you need faith to believe in the Bible there is also christian scientists who have studied the evidences of christianity. I have studied some of it. Just google "prove the bible" or something similiar and you will get a lot of websites.

I believe the Bible to be a historical document with relevance as the word of God. There are many different eyewitnesses from different periods of times and the writing flows remarkably well as the prophecies will fullfill one another, and I believe the holy spirit allowed for this. Don't see that in the Quaran. But won't get into a debate about that. I think when you choose a church to go to, you should study for yourself, and since the bible says faith comes from reading the scriptures, you may find you have faith after you read the Bible. I believe in God and Satan and believe Satan does have the upper hand on earth but as a christian you are to believe you do have hope in the afterlife for true peace. You will never find heaven on earth, it just won't happen, even if everyone converts to atheism, because suffering will not end. I just try to grow from my hardships, try reading The problem of pain by C.S. Lewis, I took a class on him in college and it is interesting as it discusses human suffering and even animal suffering in there. Lewis was an atheist who converted himself to christianity thru study.

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Then I would rather be screwed. 

Think about it.  Would you follow someone here on Earth just because of the promise of him not torturing you if you didn't follow him?  What kind of a person would you be?  You would just be following out of fear.  It makes no sense.  eusa_eh.gif

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For the record, this is my opinion and it doesn't mean that it I think that I am correct or wrong in what I am saying, this is juss how i perceive things.

God gave us the gift of free will; he gave us the capacity to think for ourselves, love others, and enjoy life freely. Because of that, we are human and therefore not perfect. I think a lot of people suffer because our life isn't meant to be perfect and some suffer because of other people's consequences.

For me, I believe that God wants us to follow his teachings or have faith in him because of love, not necessarily out of fear. If we are created in God's image, and if i were a mom, I wouldn't want my kid to grow up doing things out of fear of me, but because he/she loves me and is mature enough to think for him/herself. If they go through some tough times, it really creates some sort of lesson of maturity and strengthening of character for the kid. And I think that maybe that is how God sees us, as his kids, to learn and to grow into a better person, not out of fear, but out of love.

I do believe that the reason why we should be as good as we can, whether or not you believe in God is so that we can reduce some the suffering in this world. I believe that the suffering are the consequences of all of our actions, from greed and envy and anger. God's gift of free will allows us to shape our lives any way that we want to, good or bad. I don't think that it is God that allows the evil in this world, I think we do. And if we really want our world to be a better place it should really start with ourselves.

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