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VainTurbo

TOO MUCH TREATMENT

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Can there be such thing as too much treatment. I've had quite a few peels already some quite harsh and some not so harsh. My scarring has reduced but i started to worry. Peeling is getting rid of the outer skin and then the skin repairs itself and i had to wonder if the skin can always do that, is it possible that if i peel too many times the skin would not be able rejuvenate itself later later in my years because i peeled too many times now. My suspicsion was brought up by a derm she said to me it wasnt good to do too many peels and this is what got me wondering why she said that. Can someone tell me if its okay because i really want to have another peel only if it has no negative effects on my skin in the future.

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ALPHA HYDROXY ACIDS

Alpha-Hydroxy Acids or AHA is a compound found naturally in many common fruits and other foods. The principal AHA is glycolic acid which is found in sugar cane and sugar beets. Other AHAs include lactic acid from dairy products and malic acid from fruit. Glycolic acid is the most skin-active AHA; and its primary action is to accelerate shedding of abnormal cells in the topmost layers of the skin by decreasing their cohesiveness. Continued use of glycolic-acid-based products may result in a normalized, more compact top layer of the epidermis. This makes the skin smoother. Additionally, it helps to remove comedones (blackheads); and, like retinol, it helps to restore the barrier function of the skin, thereby helping naturally to increase its own moisture content. It also leads to increased collagen production in the upper dermis, resulting in reduction of fine lines. Glycolic acid also has an anti-inflammatory effect and is able to enhance the effects of other topical agents, such as hydroquinone and salicylic acid. It is well-tolerated by many people, but it can cause irritation and stinging in some. It can make the skin more sensitive to the effects of the sun’s UV rays; therefore use of effective sunscreen is essential.

The main benefits of alpha hydroxy acids come from its ability to exfoliate skin. Removal of the outermost layer of the skin stimulates the cells in lower layers to grow and divide, causing the skin to thicken and thus diminishing visible signs of aging. The more you exfoliate, the more cell divisions you have occurring in the lower skin layers. There is one problem though. Normal human cells cannot divide indefinitely. Fibroblasts (a key type of cells in the skin) will divide about fifty times and then enter a so-called stage of senescence. This is a state in which cell division becomes sluggish, inefficient and unresponsive to various signals from the body and unable to divide. This is similar to how a plant will slow its leaf and bloom production at the end of its growth cycle. Skin with many senescent cells is usually fragile, blotchy and easily wrinkled. This limit of about fifty cell divisions is called the Hayflick limit (after its discoverer, Dr. Leonard Hayflick).

Exfoliation remains a valuable cosmetic tool but if you overuse it, your skin may "hit the Hayflick limit" earlier than it should. In recent years, researchers have discovered the molecular mechanism of the Hayflick limit. (It has to do with the areas at the tips of chromosomes called telomeres). Medical technologies to eliminate the Hayflick limit may appear at a point in the future, although these advances in technology are likely to work only for those cells whose Hayflick limit has not yet been reached.

The most important precaution to take when using alpha hydroxy acids is to know the percent and pH level of the product. The ideal pH is 3.0-3.5, any lower and the product may be too acidic; any higher and the product's exfoliating benefits may be nullified. Even at lower levels, though, some alpha hydroxy acids can be irritating, depending on how sensitive your skin is. Mandelic acid is the recommended AHA for those with sensitive skin since it is the most non-irritating. Also, darker skin types should avoid most alpha hydroxy acids due to the risk of hyperpigmentation. Hyperpigmentation will occur in darker skin if it becomes irritated or inflamed. Those with a skin type which tans easily or rarely burns through skin types which always tan or never burn, should be especially careful and avoid possibly irritating products. Because alpha hydroxy acids peel away the tough outer layers of the skin, the newer and younger skin is more susceptible to the suns UV rays.

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The skin can't always repair itself. Cells has a certain number of divisions before they won't be able to divide anymore, but I don't know what happens when that happens.

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The skin can't always repair itself. Cells has a certain number of divisions before they won't be able to divide anymore, but I don't know what happens when that happens.

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The full mechanism of action of alpha-hydroxy acids is not yet fully understood. It is known however, that they function in two distinct fashions: First, they can act as a simple humectant that absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. When applied to the skin, these hydrated AHAs act to increase the water content of the skin and thus moisturize the outer layer of the epidermis (the stratum corneum) and consequently make the skin softer and more flexible. The second method by which AHAs are thought to act is by reducing corneocyte adhesion and accelerating cell proliferation within the deeper basal layer of the skin . This exfoliating action of AHAs occurs as a result of their ability to break the bonds between dead skin cells that form at the surface of the skin. Skin normally has a dead layer of cells at its surface (the corneocyte layer), and AHAs can speed up the normal process of skin cell regeneration and sloughing. This results in increased flexibility of the skin as well as decreased formation of large dry skin flakes at the surface of the skin. When applied in the high concentrations of a peel, AHA's operate at a deeper level and cause detachment of keratinocytes and epidermolysis. At lower concentrations, AHAs primarily reduce intercorneocyte cohesion thus promoting exfoliation and thinning of the stratum corneum. A thinner stratum corneum is more compact and flexible.

Most of the evidence on how AHAs work seems to point to exfoliation and the resulting turnover of new cells in the outer epidermal layer of the skin. There is increasing evidence however, that AHAs may be working at a much deeper level. There may well be increases in procollagen and Type I collagen that occur in the deeper dermis layer brought about by long term treatment with AHAs. One interesting study showed that topical treatment twice a day for 3 months with a 5% glycolic acid cream, at pH 2.8, affected surface and epidermal changes, while the same treatment, but with a 12% cream, reached deeper and influenced both the epidermis and the deeper dermis layer, and resulted in increased epidermal and dermal firmness and thickness. Both showed clinical improvement in skin smoothness and in the appearance of lines and wrinkles. Another interesting study showed that AHAs may thin the outer stratum corneum, but actually end up increasing the overall thickness of the epidermis. This thickening is accompanied by increased synthesis of glycosaminoglycans and collagen. It is becoming apparent that alpha-hydroxy acids may do more than just increase exfoliation and skin cell turnover.

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The full mechanism of action of alpha-hydroxy acids is not yet fully understood. It is known however, that they function in two distinct fashions: First, they can act as a simple humectant that absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. When applied to the skin, these hydrated AHAs act to increase the water content of the skin and thus moisturize the outer layer of the epidermis (the stratum corneum) and consequently make the skin softer and more flexible. The second method by which AHAs are thought to act is by reducing corneocyte adhesion and accelerating cell proliferation within the deeper basal layer of the skin . This exfoliating action of AHAs occurs as a result of their ability to break the bonds between dead skin cells that form at the surface of the skin. Skin normally has a dead layer of cells at its surface (the corneocyte layer), and AHAs can speed up the normal process of skin cell regeneration and sloughing. This results in increased flexibility of the skin as well as decreased formation of large dry skin flakes at the surface of the skin. When applied in the high concentrations of a peel, AHA's operate at a deeper level and cause detachment of keratinocytes and epidermolysis. At lower concentrations, AHAs primarily reduce intercorneocyte cohesion thus promoting exfoliation and thinning of the stratum corneum. A thinner stratum corneum is more compact and flexible.

    Most of the evidence on how AHAs work seems to point to exfoliation and the resulting turnover of new cells in the outer epidermal layer of the skin. There is increasing evidence however, that AHAs may be working at a much deeper level. There may well be increases in procollagen and Type I collagen that occur in the deeper dermis layer brought about by long term treatment with AHAs. One interesting study showed that topical treatment twice a day for 3 months with a 5% glycolic acid cream, at pH 2.8, affected surface and epidermal changes, while the same treatment, but with a 12% cream, reached deeper and influenced both the epidermis and the deeper dermis layer, and resulted in increased epidermal and dermal firmness and thickness. Both showed clinical improvement in skin smoothness and in the appearance of lines and wrinkles. Another interesting study showed that AHAs may thin the outer stratum corneum, but actually end up increasing the overall thickness of the epidermis. This thickening is accompanied by increased synthesis of glycosaminoglycans and collagen. It is becoming apparent that alpha-hydroxy acids may do more than just increase exfoliation and skin cell turnover.

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The skin can't always repair itself. Cells has a certain number of divisions before they won't be able to divide anymore, but I don't know what happens when that happens.

The following is only an opinion, I don't know if it's scientifically proven->

I suppose that once that the rate of cell divisions slows down DNA repair won't be as effective anymore, like with the poor souls that have xedoderma pigmentosum and your skin will be extremely sensitive to sunlight; you'll become something like a real life vampire. Damage to your skin will accumulate and your skin will degenerate at extra fast rates, you'll end up with lots of skin tumors, the tumors will metastize and you'll die slowly, horribly, painfully and lonely, with a freakish look on your face and your body full of chemicals and radiation that they were used on an effort to save you and scars from failed surguries to remove the tumors or you might end up in a circus, given the stage name of the nature's monstrosity with the one thousand tumors (story of the monstrosity with the one thousand tumors: once, it was a vain person that was blessed with a perfect health, but he wanted perfect beauty and he tried to remove the protective scars only to be cursed by nature with one thousand deadly tumors)., but I suppose that it takes a lot of years before your skin becomes so fragile to the sun.

Oh boy, this is very black humour.

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so...does that mean that peeling the skin is damaging in the long run? eusa_eh.gifeusa_eh.gif

what is overdoing peels...how much peeling is considered safe? how often?

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oh my gawd!!  shock.gif  shock.gif  shock.gif  shock.gif  i perform two peels a month - 20% salicylic acid and 30% glycolic acid...once every fortnight..im only 21 years old and was using it on advice of a professional for my scars and was assured that it isnt dangerous but actually good for the skin as it helps renew the skin..

so i take it they were lying to me?  eusa_wall.gif  eusa_wall.gif

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oh my gawd!!  shock.gif  shock.gif  shock.gif  shock.gif  i perform two peels a month - 20% salicylic acid and 30% glycolic acid...once every fortnight..im only 21 years old and was using it on advice of a professional for my scars and was assured that it isnt dangerous but actually good for the skin as it helps renew the skin..

so i take it they were lying to me?  eusa_wall.gif  eusa_wall.gif

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AHAs have a long history. Spoiled wine contains tartaric acid, and was used for cosmetic purposes by women in the court of France.Women in ancient Rome used the sludge from wine barrels to prepare facial masks.Cleopatra was reputed to have bathed in spoiled milk (most likely for its lactic acid content).In the 1990s, AHAs were "rediscovered," and were quickly incorporated into hundreds of skin rejuvenation products. Virtually every cosmetic company now has at least one AHA-derived line of products.

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oh my gawd!!  shock.gif  shock.gif  shock.gif  shock.gif  i perform two peels a month - 20% salicylic acid and 30% glycolic acid...once every fortnight..im only 21 years old and was using it on advice of a professional for my scars and was assured that it isnt dangerous but actually good for the skin as it helps renew the skin..

so i take it they were lying to me?  eusa_wall.gif  eusa_wall.gif

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But if you stick to cosmetics with low concentration acid, e.g. 5% glycolic acid that should be fine. Low concentrations of of acids are found in over the counter cosmetics; I doubt that those companies would like large scale national scandals of cosmetics that they sell and kill people, so low concentration acidic products should be fine.

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I would make sure to give your skin time to heal between peels. I would also use a non-irritating, high quality moisturizer on your skin afterward.

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High-concentration, low-pH AHAs produce epidermolysis, a physical separation of the epidermis from the dermis in sheet-like masses (also known as the peeling effect).In nonprescription concentrations of lower pH, however, the effect of AHAs is not as dramatic. Nonprescription AHAs may reduce the strength of intercellular corneocyte bonds, disrupting the adhesion of corneocytes in the lower stratum corneum.1 This results in accelerated cell loss and sloughing, which is the basis of exfoliation.

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ok im sorry for being soo dumb  redface.gif 

you definately seem as if u know what ur talking about - whats your opinion  about the peels i am performing?

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Money is the reason, if you are wondering why. Do tabaco companies care that they sell death? You are the only one that can protect your health. But I don't know if you are doing many peels. I'll tell you what, if with these two peels a month, you face is constantly peeling, then it's pretty bad for you, stop doing that.

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my skins is dry at times and other times it isnt...but its never too oily...

after my first peel i noticed a difference in my skin texture and it looked better too, some of the scars had faded....

it had healed within the 7 days, but my skin was pretty dry after the peeling process - i was told that this is due to the acids getting rid of the oil in my skin and that for the first 2 times it may feel tighter than normal...

i wish experts had more information on skin peels...they do work very well..i just hope theyr not damging!

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