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Mysteryagain

Paging SALY Re: salicylic acid

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Dear SALY, I read in the thread below about salicylic acid the following:

"I found salicylic acid to be the most effective peel for a variety of problems like enlarged pores, zits, and overall texture. I have used it to do the TCA Cross, minus the TCA. I would rather do several treatments than to have to deal with scabbing, etc. since scabbing can cause additional scars".

Does that mean you applied the Cross method but used salicylic for that purpose, and not TCA?

That sounds tempting to me? (I fear the TCA, feel safer with salicylic).

If that is indeed the case:

a) what percentage of salicylic did you use?

b) does it make your skin scab? what does it cause?

c) does it help only with getting rid of the "gunk" in the pores or does it actually help with collagen production? would you say that your scars or pores "filled up" while using salicylic for the Cross method?

d) any downtime or "hide-from-others" wink.gif effects from it? or does it just cause redness?

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Yes, after reading all of the info here on TCA cross it sounded like the best plan yet to deal with individual scars (other than excision). I had aTCA peel done by an MD that was a DISASTER in that it resulted in thick scabs which caused additional scarring and mild hypopigmentation. I don't think I would use the higher strengths like some folks here b/c of that experience. I decided to use what I have now which is Salicylic acid and and product called Cera-lac which is a combo.

I used 20% and 30% salicylic full face. The 30% is strong. I don't recall now what the %of buffering was. I am using about 70% but don't know the buffering. I use the toothpick method and put it into the scar area. It will frost but does not penetrate as deeply as TCA. and never scabs. It is self-neutralizing after about 5 minutes. Some minimal flaking and reddness b/c it is put on scar tissue and not regular skin tissue.

Hope this helps eusa_dance.gif

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I forgot to mention that there is a thread called "salicylic acid gets no respect". You may find that helpful.

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Yes, after reading all of the info here on TCA cross it sounded like the best plan yet to deal with individual scars (other than excision). I had aTCA peel done by an MD that was a DISASTER in that it resulted in thick scabs which caused additional scarring and mild hypopigmentation.  I don't think I would use the higher strengths like some folks here b/c of that experience.

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Yes, SALY, I did notice that thread about salicylic and paid a lot of attention to it.

It still is not clear to me, though redface.gif ... does the salicylic indeed cause some collagen deposition / shallowing of deep icepick scars or of scarred pores in a concentration of 30% or so (when applied as TCA)?

Did you personally see an improvement (refilling) of your scars since using it? even if the scar does not scab and all that?

If the skin does not scab, I assume it is way safer and less likely to cause a permanent worse scar, but also less likely to cause an actual change?

I like the fact that it is self-neutralizing after about 5 minutes... and the minimal flaking and reddness when put on scar tissue and not regular skin tissue. I sure don't look forward to the relative downtime that TCA Cross would imply!

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I am going to recheck the strength and ph of the salicylic acid with the seller to be sure I'm giving the correct strength. Sorry Mysteryagain, I think I meant to say that overall the reddness and flakiness was minimal at least for me. But scar tissue is different in that I can leave it on longer and more frequently. From what I have read you are more or less trying to "scramble up"( for lack of a better term) the scar tissue so that it rebuilds. I was told that it isn't so much the strength of any acid but the process where you try to rebuild the skin gradually and just before the skin is fully healed you repeat the procedure. What if you used a stronger acid and the skin didn't rebuild properly?? I started about 2-3 wks ago since reading about TCA Cross on this board and the internet. I've been chipping away at them. Before I was doing a whole section where some scars were and I did definately see improvement as you can see the scar breaking up. Now I just do the CROSS which makes more sense. I don't know if you have active acne or are dealing with the aftermath?? If you read up on all the acids and other products they all say the same thing about rebuilding collagen.

Luna--to this day I don't know what he did. But the GOOF didn't know what to do about it and said he cd do laser after it healed. NO WAY. My regular derm was upset about it. I had been on Accutane but that was several YEARS prior. By the way, this all happened years ago.

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I bought it on the internet and Ebay as I have used 2 different kinds. I actually found the BLiftx in 20 and 30%. But I don't think they sell them anymore to us regular folk eusa_naughty.gif

When I use what I already have I will probably try the gel form as it would stay put. Skinceuticals and Loganwood both have the gel form.

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Thanks SALY for the clarifications. I still have a few questions ( redface.gif )...

You say:

>From what I have read you are more or less trying to "scramble up"( for lack of a better term) the scar tissue so that it rebuilds.

Exactly, you are right on. eusa_dance.gif

>I was told that it isn't so much the strength of any acid but the process where you try to rebuild the skin gradually and just before the skin is fully healed you repeat the procedure.

Ooooooh, that's interesting! did a doctor tell you that? it makes sense.

Now, let me see if I got it right... you mean it is better for skin gradual rebuilding to apply the acid more often (at these concentrations we are talking about, of course) before the skin is fully healed, right? in other words, that it is better that the rebuilding process has not stopped before putting acid on the spot again, right?

If that is the case, that means applying the acid more or less once a week? less or more?

>What if you used a stronger acid and the skin didn't rebuild properly??

At the strenght you are talking about (20 and 30% salicylic, right?), it still is not too strong of an acid percentage, right? and you mean it is better to use this concentration, and more often, than being more aggressive with higher concentrations of this or of TCA, right? (let me know if I am getting everything wrong).

>I did definately see improvement as you can see the scar breaking up.

I am not a native English speaker, and the meaning of breaking up in this context escapes me. Do you mean you see the scar building up? or simply "reacting" in some way to your picking with the acid at it? (with redness? flaking?).

>Now I just do the CROSS which makes more sense.

You mean, Cross with salicylic, right?

>I don't know if you have active acne or are dealing with the aftermath??

No active acne at all, just dealing with scarred pores and a few pitted scars as the aftermath of a once active acne.

Sorry for asking so much!

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Mysteryman

I'll try to clarify. By stronger acid I mean TCA. When a stronger acid is used you are hoping that the skin rebuilds properly. If not, you have more problems. TCA penetrates deeper than salicylic so there is more risk. To me the gradual rebuilding with a lower concentration of acid over a longer period of time makes more sense. Yes, I mean CROSS using in my case Salicylic and Ceralac ( a combo of salicylic and lactic) It can be another acid and you have to find what works best for you. I DEFINATELY would not START with a high concentration of acid until you see how your skin responds to it be it glycolic, salicylic, lactic, or TCA.

These are all still acids we are talking about and just b/c salicylic, glycolic, etc aren't as strong as TCA doesn't mean that they can't do harm if not used properly.

By "breaking up" I mean the scar is not as well defined and starting to blend in to the surrounding skin.

Hope this helps.

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Also to clarify the 20 and 30% were the B Liftx peels that I did several years ago on my whole face. They must be lower ph then the 70% I am using now b/c it stung alot more. I am stilling cking on the % of the salicylic I am using now for my own version of CROSS.

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Luna--to this day I don't know what he did. But the GOOF didn't know what to do about it and said he cd do laser after it healed. NO WAY.  My regular derm was upset about it. I had been on Accutane but that was several YEARS prior. By the way, this all happened years ago.

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Luna, please keep us posted with a step by step. I am going to stay away from TCA I decided b/c of how my skin reacted to it in the past. When (maybe even if, wishful thinking) I need another peel product I may consider Jessner. I am researching that now. Or a gel salicylic peel. Are you doing individual scarring or all over. Good Luck!!

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Luna, please keep us posted with a step by step.  I am going to stay away from TCA I decided b/c of how my skin reacted to it in the past. When (maybe even if, wishful thinking) I need another peel product I may consider Jessner. I am researching that now. Or a gel salicylic peel.  Are you doing individual scarring or all over. Good Luck!!

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I finished this round of my version of CROSS using SA and Cera-lac. I alternated the two using more of the SA b/c the Cera-lac stung a little more and caused more redness. Now I have tiny red marks and very, very, light "scab". Nothing that I would have to hide inside over.

I will see if there has been any improvement when my skin settles down. Most likely I will do several more rounds as I'm not expecting miracles.

I doing scars where past excisions came open following the DISASTER TCA peel years ago, Yes, still working on them, and from reading this board what are referred to as scared pores.

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Unfortunately I have not been able to definately confirm that the SA is 70%. What I have now is getting old and may not be as strong as when I first got it. I cked with the seller (Ebay) and what she offers now is SA 30% with 2%ph. I read alot on this board and many said that they had used 70% so it does exist. But the highest I've seen lately is about 50%. I think alot of it has to do with the ph!!

you are supposed to use the SA first as it clears the pores for the other types of acid to penetrate better.

I have a bottle of 70% unbuffered glycolic acid and that is strong stuff and can caused blistering if used too often. I am going to pitch it. and stick with the milder products.

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Hi everyone--

Any new updates on how the peels, etc. are going. My skin is very dry today from the SA and Cera-lac. I haven't used any moisturizer this time as I hear that can interfere with the healing process. Still have some light, transparent tiny crusts on some of the scars that I did.

Guys, you can try to get a powder to cover the red marks. Have sister, mother, girlfriend, friend get it for you if you're not sure or buy it online. You can then use a cotton swab to dab and blend it over the red mark and surrounding skin.

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I'm definitely peeling like crazy here, which is good because hopefully it will only take a couple of days to peel. The skin underneath is so soft and smooth!

I was told to moisturize like crazy, so that's what I've been doing and it's still peeling.

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Usually I do moisturize but thought I wd try something different this time and see what the outcome is. I've never really had skin peel. It is usually only dry and flaky or thick scabs with nothing in between.

I did each scar more intense this time alternated two types of peeling agents. So we'll see. smile.gif

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There are several posts from 2003 where glycolic (I believe) and SA were used to do spot treatments on scars. I will try to look for any follow up posts as to whether these acids were effective in reducing scars. If I find any follow up info I'll post it. I am using this technique as well and am curious as to the results others have achieved.

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I have done both glycolic and salicylic peels. I don't know what the PH was on your 20% peel. But when I used 20% it did sting quite a bit. My guess is that your skin will flake more than actually peel.

The difference I notice between GA and SA is that when you first put the GA on it doesn't sting too much but the stinging increases the longer you keep it on. The SA is different in that it stings when you first put it on but lessens until the stinging stops which means it has self-neutralized.

I'd wait about a week before doing another SA peel though. It should "frost" shortly after you put it on.

Hope this helps. smile.gif

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