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i had a feeling you worked for a laser company.. :rolleyes: here to do a bit of promoting eh?

Why dont you help some of us out...take before pics...go have a nice series of high setting thermage, just like the laser manufacturer trianed the physicians to do(no doubt in an afternoon seminar) ..wait about 4 months and take new pics...thank you.

BTW..I dont have acne..I am here due to my damned laser & thermage scars.

Look, I said in the beginning I worked for a laser company - but did you see me promoting anything, mentioning any mfg names - NO

You said "LASERS ARE BAD" - Isaid that's stupid, especially since Thermage is not even a laser. Also I recognize the risk associated with Thermage and would not have a tx done anyway - especially at the old protocol that you mention - lets not be stupid here. I'm jsut tryign to gleen some informaiton, espeically to thoise who may believe YOU when you say lasers are bad. The bad thing is that there's a lot of crap equipment out there, that's purchased by cheap people looking to get into the biz on the cheap. Said equipment nfg typically don't do a good job of training either....perhaps by a salesperson, bad idea.

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There are many people on this board, spending their last cent to have laser treaments. MANY see very little, if any improvement in their skin. ya..lasers are bad...we may as well throw are hard earned money in the trash...and thank God not everyone recieves disfuguring scars from it. The docs pay big bucks for the machines and try to sell em as a cure all for everything. When things dont work out they whip out their book of excuses that ar prolly written by the laser company. I was going to post my pics to show you the damage but fuck it...that would be stupid.

BTW..this topic has been buried for quite some time, ..thank you for bringing it back to the top. Heads up to all who havent seen this topic as of yet...its a good long read, which may save $$$ and/or your face.

I live everyday with the pain of my severe LASER (erbium and thermage) scarring..I dont want to rehash this anylonger..especially with an A-hole newby who continually finds the need to call me stupid...and thinks we are lying about our laser scars and fat loss..

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There are many people on this board, spending their last cent to have laser treaments. MANY see very little, if any improvement in their skin. ya..lasers are bad...we may as well throw are hard earned money in the trash...and thank God not everyone recieves disfuguring scars from it. The docs pay big bucks for the machines and try to sell em as a cure all for everything. When things dont work out they whip out their book of excuses that ar prolly written by the laser company. I was going to post my pics to show you the damage but fuck it...that would be stupid.

BTW..this topic has been buried for quite some time, ..thank you for bringing it back to the top. Heads up to all who havent seen this topic as of yet...its a good long read, which may save $$$ and/or your face.

I live everyday with the pain of my severe LASER (erbium and thermage) scarring..I dont want to rehash this anylonger..especially with an A-hole newby who continually finds the need to call me stupid...and thinks we are lying about our laser scars and fat loss..

perhaps your expectation are unrealistic - in my sales binder I have amny b/a photos where people got good results - but then again, like I said, there is a lot of crap equpment out there that promise the moon - and yes, it gives the whole industry a bad name (look at you "all lasers are bad"). BTW, I have never seen a "book of excuses" - sorry for your bad experience - my advice would be to do your homework a little better, and when you think you've done enough, do some more. What were you being treated for?

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perhaps your expectation are unrealistic - in my sales binder I have amny b/a photos where people got good results - but then again, like I said, there is a lot of crap equpment out there that promise the moon - and yes, it gives the whole industry a bad name (look at you "all lasers are bad"). BTW, I have never seen a "book of excuses" - sorry for your bad experience - my advice would be to do your homework a little better, and when you think you've done enough, do some more. What were you being treated for?

Just a friendly warning inthebiz, if you come to an acne site and then start making insensitive comments about people who had damage done by laser treatments.....ie insinuating that they are lying, you should probably expect to get flamed to high heaven....

That being said, I had Thermage done a few months ago and fortunately didn't have fat loss.....However, it pretty much did nothing at all....$1000 not well spent....

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perhaps your expectation are unrealistic - in my sales binder I have amny b/a photos where people got good results - but then again, like I said, there is a lot of crap equpment out there that promise the moon - and yes, it gives the whole industry a bad name (look at you "all lasers are bad"). BTW, I have never seen a "book of excuses" - sorry for your bad experience - my advice would be to do your homework a little better, and when you think you've done enough, do some more. What were you being treated for?

Just a friendly warning inthebiz, if you come to an acne site and then start making insensitive comments about people who had damage done by laser treatments.....ie insinuating that they are lying, you should probably expect to get flamed to high heaven....

That being said, I had Thermage done a few months ago and fortunately didn't have fat loss.....However, it pretty much did nothing at all....$1000 not well spent....

thanks for your advice, but since I'm very familiar with lasers, I will call a stupid comment exactly what it is. Now, with regards to your Thermage tx - were you being treated for acne scars??? If so, I honestly think that's a stretch for any doc to claim - it's really for lax skin, period. For acne scars I have a nurse doing microdermabrasion combined with a laser treatment (extrememly safe) - micrsecond pulse duration, low evergy, very rapid repition rate (Nd:YAG laser) - the compnay that makes the lasers has a white paper study on scars. The hard line is this, scars don't go away but in some cases can be made to look a little better.

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My expectations where not to get a face full of scars, where there were once NONE. (I was being treated for minor sun damage) Do my homework better?..I wasnt gonna say it, but thats a stupid question. should I have self inspected the the machines? Do doctors lie about their experience with said machines?? Is the setting at what they are telling you??? who knows???......most would have too much $$$ to lose if they told the truth.

All I cant say to the people reading this resurrected topic...who ya gonna believe??..the laser company dude who never had a laser treatment (who BTW would be out of work if everyone decided against lasers) or...people on this board who actually experienced lasers(good, bad or whatever)???..

I'm done...

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thanks for your advice, but since I'm very familiar with lasers, I will call a stupid comment exactly what it is. Now, with regards to your Thermage tx - were you being treated for acne scars??? If so, I honestly think that's a stretch for any doc to claim - it's really for lax skin, period. For acne scars I have a nurse doing microdermabrasion combined with a laser treatment (extrememly safe) - micrsecond pulse duration, low evergy, very rapid repition rate (Nd:YAG laser) - the compnay that makes the lasers has a white paper study on scars. The hard line is this, scars don't go away but in some cases can be made to look a little better.

Don't you get condescending with me.... You can take your 5 posts along with your sales binder and shove them where the sun don't shine.....

You are in a SCAR FORUM.... the combined knowledge of all the users here who have actually HAD the treatments is worth more than 8000 white paper studies or any other little pearls of wisdom you have to pass along....

I'm also done....good luck gathering info with your charming personality....

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Whoa!!! yea I am glad this topic resurfaced (no pun intended!!). I was asking my doc about YAG, considering having it done, but I think I will stick with good ol' dermabrasion as my final approach to treatment.

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My expectations where not to get a face full of scars, where there were once NONE. (I was being treated for minor sun damage) Do my homework better?..I wasnt gonna say it, but thats a stupid question. should I have self inspected the the machines? Do doctors lie about their experience with said machines?? Is the setting at what they are telling you??? who knows???......most would have too much $$$ to lose if they told the truth.

All I cant say to the people reading this resurrected topic...who ya gonna believe??..the laser company dude who never had a laser treatment (who BTW would be out of work if everyone decided against lasers) or...people on this board who actually experienced lasers(good, bad or whatever)???..

I'm done...

Look, I odn't mean to insult you in any way shape or form, but if you had erbium resurfacing AND Thermage for sun damamge (I assume you mean brown or red dyschromia)....then me telling you to do your homework is so not stupid. simple IPL should have done the job - or let me guess, your going to tell me this was done and you have atrophy becasue of it. You're showing your ignorance

BTW, jsut to show you are a liar - I've had many more treatments than you on my face I can guarantee you this - I'm sorry if you've been sold by some shoddy docs - like I said do your homework. Or in your case, see a therapist, because you obviosuly have esteem issues which probalby caused you to seek treatment to begin with. Let me know if you'd like to talk to the millions of people going to reputable docotrs getting goood treatments - I'm sure you don't know this, but there are medical journals and publications on these type thing - don't be lazy, do your homework - ignoring this is stupid

thanks for your advice, but since I'm very familiar with lasers, I will call a stupid comment exactly what it is. Now, with regards to your Thermage tx - were you being treated for acne scars??? If so, I honestly think that's a stretch for any doc to claim - it's really for lax skin, period. For acne scars I have a nurse doing microdermabrasion combined with a laser treatment (extrememly safe) - micrsecond pulse duration, low evergy, very rapid repition rate (Nd:YAG laser) - the compnay that makes the lasers has a white paper study on scars. The hard line is this, scars don't go away but in some cases can be made to look a little better.

Don't you get condescending with me.... You can take your 5 posts along with your sales binder and shove them where the sun don't shine.....

You are in a SCAR FORUM.... the combined knowledge of all the users here who have actually HAD the treatments is worth more than 8000 white paper studies or any other little pearls of wisdom you have to pass along....

I'm also done....good luck gathering info with your charming personality....

duly noted - will do - and you can take your Thermage tx for acne scars and suffer the results....totally stupid

My expectations where not to get a face full of scars, where there were once NONE. (I was being treated for minor sun damage) Do my homework better?..I wasnt gonna say it, but thats a stupid question. should I have self inspected the the machines? Do doctors lie about their experience with said machines?? Is the setting at what they are telling you??? who knows???......most would have too much $$$ to lose if they told the truth.

All I cant say to the people reading this resurrected topic...who ya gonna believe??..the laser company dude who never had a laser treatment (who BTW would be out of work if everyone decided against lasers) or...people on this board who actually experienced lasers(good, bad or whatever)???..

I'm done...

Look, I odn't mean to insult you in any way shape or form, but if you had erbium resurfacing AND Thermage for sun damamge (I assume you mean brown or red dyschromia)....then me telling you to do your homework is so not stupid. simple IPL should have done the job - or let me guess, your going to tell me this was done and you have atrophy becasue of it. You're showing your ignorance

BTW, jsut to show you are a liar - I've had many more treatments than you on my face I can guarantee you this - I'm sorry if you've been sold by some shoddy docs - like I said do your homework. Or in your case, see a therapist, because you obviosuly have esteem issues which probalby caused you to seek treatment to begin with. Let me know if you'd like to talk to the millions of people going to reputable docotrs getting goood treatments - I'm sure you don't know this, but there are medical journals and publications on these type thing - don't be lazy, do your homework - ignoring this is stupid

thanks for your advice, but since I'm very familiar with lasers, I will call a stupid comment exactly what it is. Now, with regards to your Thermage tx - were you being treated for acne scars??? If so, I honestly think that's a stretch for any doc to claim - it's really for lax skin, period. For acne scars I have a nurse doing microdermabrasion combined with a laser treatment (extrememly safe) - micrsecond pulse duration, low evergy, very rapid repition rate (Nd:YAG laser) - the compnay that makes the lasers has a white paper study on scars. The hard line is this, scars don't go away but in some cases can be made to look a little better.

Don't you get condescending with me.... You can take your 5 posts along with your sales binder and shove them where the sun don't shine.....

You are in a SCAR FORUM.... the combined knowledge of all the users here who have actually HAD the treatments is worth more than 8000 white paper studies or any other little pearls of wisdom you have to pass along....

I'm also done....good luck gathering info with your charming personality....

duly noted - will do - and you can take your Thermage tx for acne scars and suffer the results....totally stupid

and that's not me being condescending...I'll gladly decline your anit-sales pearls, since you seem to be agro as well as clueless

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thanks for your advice, but since I'm very familiar with lasers, I will call a stupid comment exactly what it is. Now, with regards to your Thermage tx - were you being treated for acne scars??? If so, I honestly think that's a stretch for any doc to claim - it's really for lax skin, period. For acne scars I have a nurse doing microdermabrasion combined with a laser treatment (extrememly safe) - micrsecond pulse duration, low evergy, very rapid repition rate (Nd:YAG laser) - the compnay that makes the lasers has a white paper study on scars. The hard line is this, scars don't go away but in some cases can be made to look a little better.

Don't you get condescending with me.... You can take your 5 posts along with your sales binder and shove them where the sun don't shine.....

You are in a SCAR FORUM.... the combined knowledge of all the users here who have actually HAD the treatments is worth more than 8000 white paper studies or any other little pearls of wisdom you have to pass along....

I'm also done....good luck gathering info with your charming personality....

:clap: I bid Mr. IntheLASERbiz a good riddance and thank goodness for ignore buttons....(Im so stoopid, Im nutt sur if I spelled that riddance word corrrrrrectly)

YLEM!!!! I have to leave for work in a few minutes...congrats on your excisions!!...have much to ask you sweety. :D ..watch for a PM tomorrow.. :D

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Thanks for standing up for thousands... Mayb he should try another site and not try to make people feel worse than what they are....

i'm new here and i've been following your story and experience. i was thinking about laser due to acne scars. Thanks LaSirena!!!!!!!

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I always appreciate an honest cautionary tale. I truly believe that lasers are not the way to go for scarring as evidenced not only by the horror stories of those who have ACTUALLY HAD THEM, but the less than stellar results (see fraxel thread) for the exorbitant cost.

On another note, it's been a while (but not long enough) since someone as obnoxious as inthebiz has been on the scene...

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All lasers arent worthless for treating acne scars. There are many combinations and forms of severity in regards to acne scarring. If u try to rid the face of deep severe scars with anything and think they will go away u are in for a major dissapointment. Also u have to remember that certain forms of acne scarring are the very worst thing u could have other than a burn and are extremely diffucult to remedy. People that would benefit from the lasers are anyone with minor shallow scars. This is true for all resurfacing techniques.

I looked at some of the people getting the Fraxel laser done on their faces and it is no wonder that they have dissapointing results. I am surprised that the clinics would ever preform that procedure knowing that its not going to do much for their level of scarring. Get the worst scars fixed first and then think about resurfacing the skin and u will be happy.

About the cost I spent a lot of money on removing my acne scars and the cost was never an issue. I keep seeing people trying various do it yourself techniques which are not gonna do them any good and could make things a whole lot worse. If u are hard up seriously take out a loan or get a second job.

Masterk I like your attitude. While acne scarring treatment is on the order of several grand, what kind of financial impact will that REALLY make in your entire future??!! Not much if one can achieve smooth, relatively unscarred skin! I am dumping all of the cost for my treatments on a credit card, but know that I am financially responsible to manage the expense. I don't spend frivolously in any other way. I mean, buying a car is a far greater expense than treating acne scarring, really!!

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Masterk I like your attitude. While acne scarring treatment is on the order of several grand, what kind of financial impact will that REALLY make in your entire future??!! Not much if one can achieve smooth, relatively unscarred skin! I am dumping all of the cost for my treatments on a credit card, but know that I am financially responsible to manage the expense. I don't spend frivolously in any other way. I mean, buying a car is a far greater expense than treating acne scarring, really!!

That's so true..... But all the same I really, really hope that my car doesn't die while I'm still paying for my Fraxel treatments...;)

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I always appreciate an honest cautionary tale. I truly believe that lasers are not the way to go for scarring as evidenced not only by the horror stories of those who have ACTUALLY HAD THEM, but the less than stellar results (see fraxel thread) for the exorbitant cost.

On another note, it's been a while (but not long enough) since someone as obnoxious as inthebiz has been on the scene...

SORRY THAT OBNOXIOUS = INFORMED IN YOUR WORLD....HARD TO BELIEVE YOU ALL THINK YOU KNOW BETTER THAN SOMEONE IN THE BIZ....I THOUGTH i WOULD SHARE SOME OF MY INSIGHT INTO SCAR REVISION (IN PARTICULAR ACNE SCARS), BUT IT SEEMS I KNOW NOTHING AND YOU GINNEA PIGS (THERMAGE FOR ACNE SCARS - OYE) KNOW EVERYTHING, HYSTERICAL REALLY

All lasers arent worthless for treating acne scars. There are many combinations and forms of severity in regards to acne scarring. If u try to rid the face of deep severe scars with anything and think they will go away u are in for a major dissapointment. Also u have to remember that certain forms of acne scarring are the very worst thing u could have other than a burn and are extremely diffucult to remedy. People that would benefit from the lasers are anyone with minor shallow scars. This is true for all resurfacing techniques.

I looked at some of the people getting the Fraxel laser done on their faces and it is no wonder that they have dissapointing results. I am surprised that the clinics would ever preform that procedure knowing that its not going to do much for their level of scarring. Get the worst scars fixed first and then think about resurfacing the skin and u will be happy.

About the cost I spent a lot of money on removing my acne scars and the cost was never an issue. I keep seeing people trying various do it yourself techniques which are not gonna do them any good and could make things a whole lot worse. If u are hard up seriously take out a loan or get a second job.

- OBSERVE, THIS IS COMMENTARY BY SOMEONE WHO "GETS IT" - OR HAS DONE THEIR HOMEWORK, BUT AT LEAST UNDERSTANDS LASERS

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lol..... :lol: I'll take my advice from my plastic surgeon over someone who gets their info from their 'sales binder'.

But hey, what do I know, I'm not in the 'Biz'...

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I keep seeing people trying various do it yourself techniques which are not gonna do them any good and could make things a whole lot worse

MasterK, that's simply not true. Between the SA peels, cp's, TCA peels, TCA cross, Apeel and emu, my scars have reduced by about 30% in 3 months and my skin looks tenfolds better than it did 3 months ago.

There is hope and it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to get it.

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I'm very happy for you that your treatments have worked well. I wasn't implying that people shouldn't have such treatments if they have the money and a good doctor. All I was saying was that simpler, "home treatments" can work sometmes. I wouldn't have put TCA on my face if I haven't been desperate to do something that might help and if I knew any doctor who does cross in my area. As it is, nobody does so I did it myself. :angel:

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I will read up to more recent stuff with you.

But jst so you know if this is the "cool touch" laser I had it done under my eyes.

I am not old, 38, no wrinkles, feel like 20 with my oily skin and a litte acne.

But I have sinus problems and the swelling was kinda making my one eye swollwn.

So I had 5 tx. All of the fat isgone, and my eyes look great.

So sorry, I did not know it dissolved fat, but maybe it does as myeyes are so good now.

Now I know, but do know you can get fat "spun" and reinjected.

Maybe his is just too much loss, but honestly they build up "bums" with it.

Hope you are OK now. Will read your newest post "if you have one," and see.

I know quite a bit, but it is always up to thedoc. and your conditon.......

Good luck, hope he fixed it for free!

Have any of you heard of a laser called the Titan? It works kind of simulair to the Thermage but ofcourse they say its better and safer etc. Its new and I was thinking about having it done for scared pores. So I´m very glad I read this post first. Because I have had fat loss problems in my face due to acne. So I think I m very sensetive for it. They say it does not injure fat, but I would really like to know what you people think about it! Here is what I read:

"Research and clinical trials suggest Titanâ„¢ satisfaction rates among patients are much greater than Thermageâ„¢.

The TITANâ„¢ procedure does not injure fat due to the unique optical energy source. Thermageâ„¢ has had multiple problems with injuring fat and causing some dimpling because of its RF (radio-frequency) energy source which acts a lot like a microwave injuring fat. Thus, the TITANâ„¢ is a much safer procedure.

The all-optical approach of the Titan procedure uses water as the target chromophore, creating an even distribution of the applied energy in the treatment volume.

For the RF approach, the energy deposition depends on the impedance of the layers in the skin, which varies significantly from dermis to the subcutaneous fat layer."

http://www.laser-derm.com/Titan.htm

http://www.laserlight.org/titan.html

http://www.whnt.com/Global/story.asp?S=2771515

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I have had both Thermage, and Titan. Juts to have nice tight skin.

Thermage is very painful, 3 years ago I had it and it tightened one side of my face almost too much, forehead and neck good, right side poor caue I sleep on this side.

I m 38, for preventative had Titan, seemed good for tightening the skin. Maybe too early to tell,

my skin is tight, but it is like not for acne scars.

Maybe made them worse - (stretched them maybe???), but great for a preventitive antiaging thing.

Not to get rid of scarring though.......

Don't know who does these articles, but I have a few pits, large pores, and a few shalow rolling scars

If that shallow thing uneven, causes a shadow in certain in some lighting is a rolling scar.

Whatever, these procedures are for anti aging, not scarring.........

Wow, I can't believe it, as I finished my Titan in March, skin, if I keep it up every 5 years or so maybe never need a lift, the friggen scars bother me.

This is not done for scars.....

What is!

I have a few left, shallow pits, some large pores, and some shallow (very scarring) really not bad but I am a girl, am pretty when I make my skin look as flawless as can be, but like takes over an hour to get ready.

With bad acne as a kid, and facing aging, I just want scars gone, to get up and shower, do eye make-up, some light foundation powder, quick hair and go!

I have 3 little kids, need the scars gone, and just like enjoy life without this burden of getting all ready and stuff!!!!!!!!

Some of you feel it is to much too! Some may say stop worrying, but you know that is the worst.

After putting up with acne most of my life, I just want a few years of as perfect skin as I can get before the ageing stuff steps in. Hopefully never as I have oily skin and like have done prevention.

Sorry for going off, but Titan is to tighten the skin, and ifyou have large pores, ice picks, or rolling scars this is not the laser to treat them!

Koosham, and whomever:

I have had both Thermage, and Titan. Juts to have nice tight skin.

Thermage is very painful, 3 years ago I had it and it tightened one side of my face almost too much, forehead and neck good, right side poor caue I sleep on this side.

I m 38, for preventative had Titan, seemed good for tightening the skin. Maybe too early to tell,

my skin is tight, but it is like not for acne scars.

Maybe made them worse - (stretched them maybe???), but great for a preventitive antiaging thing.

Not to get rid of scarring though.......

Don't know who does these articles, but I have a few pits, large pores, and a few shalow rolling scars

If that shallow thing uneven, causes a shadow in certain in some lighting is a rolling scar.

Whatever, these procedures are for anti aging, not scarring.........

Wow, I can't believe it, as I finished my Titan in March, skin, if I keep it up every 5 years or so maybe never need a lift, the friggen scars bother me.

This is not done for scars.....

What is!

I have a few left, shallow pits, some large pores, and some shallow (very scarring) really not bad but I am a girl, am pretty when I make my skin look as flawless as can be, but like takes over an hour to get ready.

With bad acne as a kid, and facing aging, I just want scars gone, to get up and shower, do eye make-up, some light foundation powder, quick hair and go!

I have 3 little kids, need the scars gone, and just like enjoy life without this burden of getting all ready and stuff!!!!!!!!

Some of you feel it is to much too! Some may say stop worrying, but you know that is the worst.

After putting up with acne most of my life, I just want a few years of as perfect skin as I can get before the ageing stuff steps in. Hopefully never as I have oily skin and like have done prevention.

Sorry for going off, but Titan is to tighten the skin, and ifyou have large pores, ice picks, or rolling scars this is not the laser to treat them!

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The fact that the wavelength of a laser is too short to penetrate into the subcutaneous fat doesn't necessarily mean that laser can't cause fat loss through some indirect process. Some people believe the residual heat of the laser, not the laser beam itself, could cause fat cell depletion or necrosis.

A 2 week recovery time for CO2 is extremely generous, even coming from a laser salesman. It took me over 4 years to look 'normal' again, and i am still trying to repair the damage. Though I've never found any mention in medical literature of such lengthy erythema, textural changes, post-CO2 related acne, etc, I have heard from dozens of other people in the same boat, or worse.

I can assure you that I went to a qualified doctor, board certified both as a dermatologist and plastic surgeon. I followed his post-op directions to the letter. I can only conclude that lasers are much riskier than the manufacturers have led doctors and their patients to believe.

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Is the Portrait PSR a laser? as ive heard nothing but good things about it.

portrait is not a laser but rather uses plasma the same energy found in lightning to regenerate collagen by heating the subdermal layers.

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12 excisions and 6 Fraxel treatments over the course of 9 months and I am 95% scar free. I am sure that I would not have gotten many results trying to do peels and things and would never put TCA on my skin myself.

As I have said all were minor ice pick scars that were removed and what is left is the minor scars that were from the excisions. I am the only one that notices the scars at this point and am happy with the few grand that I spent. I had the money and that wasnt an issue but I would have scraped together all of it somehow if I had to.

I'm not a jerk I just try to give people real advice about things. I am glad the home treatments are doing u good too.

is excisions same as subcision masterk? May i also ask what pwer you had the laser set at. Lastly, do you have any before and after pics? WOuld truly love to see the results if poss.

Im glad to hear of a success story and im really happy for you. :)

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