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Permanent Filler

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I was speaking to my Derm and he mentioned that Silicon is being used a s a filler and that it is permanent.

It was banned in the past but it has been improved and is producing great and permanent result.

Does anyone know anything more about this.I will be very interested.I did a search and read a few articles anyone with first hand experience

Is this the permanent solution we all are looking for.

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I was speaking to my Derm and he mentioned that Silicon is being used a s a filler and that it is permanent.

It was banned in the past but it has been improved and is producing great and permanent result.

Does anyone know anything more about this.I will be very interested.I did a search and read a few articles anyone with first hand experience

Is this the permanent solution we all are looking for.

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Silicon isn't a good product to put in your body,it will be rejected by your own body because it is a foreign body.

I've been thinking about bio-alcamid,do a search of this on acne.org or go into my profile by clicking on my name,click on "find members posts" then go to page 4,then go to the 4th post from the bottom of this page which u will find a link to a site that gives u info on a number of fillers.

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Violet is getting saline injections, not silicone.

Silicone (siliCON is a common natural element it is made from) is rarely “rejected� by the human body.

Search for LSI.

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I believe scarred4life? is the one that has been getting silicone injection from a doctor from NY, maybe he can post and confirm??

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Wow, this is such an optimistic thread. Even if a near permanent filler is found , if it lasts for 5 years, that is fine too aint it, wouldnt all our problems be solved?

We can shutdown this board, yippee.

Except ice pick scars, all scars respond to fillers right? Also the scars resulting from the punch float of ice pick scars would respond to fillers right?

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It's not rejected-- it's wrapped up in collagen and kept quarantined. That's how it was explained on these boards. And that's why LIS is permanent. (micro-droplet methodology is the only way I'd try it).

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Rolling scars are the only type that work well with fillers. Permanent fillers can be a bad idea, because they can migrate over time, leaving lumps from the silicone that would be right next to the pits they originally filled. They can also have granulomas or in rare cases will be rejected by a hyperactive immune system. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. sad.gif :DebbieDowner:

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goldrex and oldguy,have u ever had any fillers done or are u just commenting on what u have read,don't worry im not having a dig at u.

I've had 2 fillers put in my face and i believe that common sense tells me that any foreign body that is put in my face will be rejected by my own body now matter how long it takes.

I wouldn't advise any1 to have any kind of silicon put in there face because of the serious complications it can or may cause.

You've only got to look at breast implants to realise what can and as happened to people who've had these implants,these started of made of silicon and was even sealed in a bag of some what but they still burst.

Collagen was even rejected by my own body and fat which was my own fat from my own stomach was even rejected by my own body,how natural can u get than that.

Silicon is man made so i wouldn't have this in my face,i think i was even told by Dr Chu not to have silicon done but im not sure.

Anyway u don't have to listen to me,u are all grown adults so decide for yourselves and don't believe what u read,there only after your money.

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Sam, I have had Restylane injected. It is composed of hyaluronic acid which is a natural component of human skin, and is created in the lab by multiplying purified bacteria, so any sort of reaction is extremely unlikely. I have read about people that have a hyperactive immune system, but I don’t understand how or why your body could reject your own fat.

Playing devil’s advocate, injecting huge amounts of liquid silicone for breast implants is much different than the micro droplets that are injected for acne scars. Like I said earlier in this thread, SiliCONE is made from siliCON, which is the 2nd most common substance in our planet. Another reason that some people may be overly alarmist about LSI is that people have obtained non-medical grade silicone and injected that at parties, with disfiguring results. Strange but true.

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Oldguy,how long have u had the restylane in your face for and as it helped?

I'm going to have isolagen done later on in the year.

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Here is a little downer...I had 1cc of Radiance Filler which is supposed to last 2-6 years..injected into my scars this past October...

It lasted 2 months..NOW, it is GONE...!!! sad.gif

I know everyone is different...but, I have a hard time believing the drug companies info on the longevity of these fillers...

Im beginning to think it is all just a bunch of hype. sad.gif

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Sam, about 5 months. I got a 70% improvement from it. Why would you have Isolagen done if your body even rejected its own fat? It would seem even more likely to me that the Isolagen would also be rejected since it consists of extra fibroblasts and other cells that were cultured in the lab, rather than completely natural and balanced skin tissue. Can you clarify your and your doctor’s reasoning?

Btw, since nodoubt was speaking of the longevity of fillers, (or lack thereof) Isolagen definitely does not last as long as the company claims. Some of the doctors that took part in the US clinical trials commented on that in the medical media.

PS, I realized while typing this that when you say "rejected" you probably just mean the fat, collagen, etc. has dissipated over a period of months. Again, please clarify. confused.gif

Laurel, Go away, spammer. You suck. Attn Mods: please ban this person.

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Hey guys, I thought you might find this article interesting. It gives a decent, medical, overview of the fillers that exist out there. It is intended for a U.S. audience and is from the journal "Skin and Allergy News", which is ready by dermatologists (well, probalby not well-read... in my experience, most doctors don't really keep up with medicine all that well--at least, acne-related medicine).

You may even want to put this in a FAQ. Hope it helps!!

-----------

Know your filler repertoire: demand on the rise: careful selection is key for finding the appropriate filler from among the plethora of available products.(Dermatologic Surgery)

Brunk, Doug

1,235 words

1 November 2004

Skin & Allergy News

30

ISSN: 0037-6337; Volume 35; Issue 11

English

Copyright 2004 Gale Group. All rights reserved.

LAS VEGAS -- Expect your patients to start asking you more questions about non-FDA-approved fillers intended for soft tissue augmentation in the perioral area and nasolabial folds, Seth L. Matarasso, M.D., said at the 13th International Symposium on Cosmetic Laser Surgery.

"In my office, I routinely see patients [who] went abroad to receive the latest filler," said Dr. Matarasso of the department of dermatology, University of California, San Francisco. 'Although I am a great aficionado of injectables and fillers as they produce a high degree of patient satisfaction and immediate gratification, I would encourage physicians to know FDA guidelines and regulations." He also suggests that they learn about what is commercially available, become familiar with a few of the products, and then select whatever is most appropriate for each patient.

He emphasized that an of these products are technique-sensitive. "They are deceptively simple," he said. "Basically you can order preloaded syringes from the manufacturer and administer them to the patient. However, it is imperative that you not only know the unique characteristics of each of the fillers and their depth of injection, but also be familiar with their adverse sequelae."

He discussed the following filler products that have begun to get some notoriety and remarked that he has no financial interest in any of them:

* Amazing Gel. The chief component of this product, made in China, is a hydrophilic polyacrylamide gel. It's a permanent filler. "'Is permanent good? Is semi-permanent good? Is temporary good?" asked Dr. Matarasso, whose practice is mainly aesthetic dermatology. "'I think you have to look at the patient and what their goals are. Unfortunately, there is a high rate of infection with this [product]."

* Aquamid. Made in Denmark, this product is a hydrophilic polyacrylamide gel with 5 parts per million of residual unpolymerized monomer. It's a permanent filler. "It might be reversible, but I don't know how you would get it out," Dr. Matarasso noted.

* Argiform. Made in Russia, this product is a polyacrylamide gel with a 0.03% residual monomer intended for permanent volume correction of the nasolabial fold. "It's made with a silver ion process, so theoretically it's more resistant to bacterial infection," he noted. "It's a thick product, requiring a 25-gauge needle for administration. Invariably you will have to use a nerve block, because the use of such a largebore needle is very painful and no patient will tolerate the degree of discomfort for elective facial augmentation."

* Artefill (Artecoll). Made in the United States, this agent was submitted for approval in 2003 and has received preliminary approval with the provision that it not be used for lip augmentation. However, it has been available in Canada and Europe for more than 5 years. It is composed of homogenous polymethyl methacrylate microspheres suspended in a vehicle of 80% bovine collagen. It's also permanent. "The theory is that you get immediate augmentation with the collagen, and as the collagen is degraded, permanent augmentation occurs from the polymethyl methacrylate crystals," Dr. Matarasso explained. "The big caveat is that there is a bovine collagen component. As about 2% of the adult population is allergic to bovine collagen products, clearly the standard of care is to do a screening skin test."

Artefill will probably have its greatest utility in the nasolabial folds, he added, but due to the formation of some delayed reaction granulomas in the lips, "I suspect that the initial popularity of this product may have waned slightly."

* Bio-Alcamid. Made in Italy, this product is a polyacrylamide gel that is similar to Aquamid. "Longevity is permanent, but the manufacturer says it's reversible," he said. "Apparently you're supposed to puncture it, and it aspirates quite readily. I suspect that this would be comparable to the FDA-approved hyaluronic acid products [Restylane and Hylaform] whereupon overcorrection can be improved by incision and expression of the contents."

* Bioplastique. Made in the Netherlands, this product is a combination of low-molecular-weight polyvinylpyrrolidone and solid polymer particles, or silicone. "It is similar to Artecoll in that there is an immediate soft tissue augmentation," Dr. Matarasso said. "As that is metabolized, the silicone remains, so there is permanent soft tissue augmentation. It requires a deeper injection and physicians are using it for cheek, nasal, and hand augmentation."

* Dermalive and Dermadeep. Made in France, these two products are composed primarily of hyaluronic acid, but they also have 40% acrylic hydrogel crystals. "What is produced is immediate soft tissue augmentation from the hyaluronic acid," he said. "As that is metabolized, there is permanent augmentation from the crystals. In theory it makes good sense, but anecdotally there may be problems not only with infections but with granulomas."

* Evolution. Made in France, this product is a semi-permanent polyacrylamide gel. "'Perhaps its biggest attribute is that it may be acceptable for lip augmentation," Dr. Matarasso noted.

* Isolagen. This is a technique that requires excising an aliquot of the patient's skin and growing their collagen-producing fibroblasts in culture and then reinjecting these cells to stimulate collagen growth and formation.

* Metacrill. Made in Brazil, this permanent filler is composed of polymethyl methacrylate suspended in carboxygluconatehydrolactic of magnesium.

* Procell. Made in Switzerland, this product is composed primarily of synthetic laxin and hyaluronic acid, which stimulate fibroblast and collagen production. "If you're injecting it deeper [into tissue] at 30 mL, it apparently flows a little bit better," he said.

* Radiesse (Radiance). Made in the United States, this product is composed mainly of microspheres of calcium hydroxyapatite, or the primary mineral components of bone and teeth (bone cement), suspended in a gel of sodium carboxymethylcellulose, glycerin, and water. "From what I understand, this injectable may have considerable potential," he commented. "My biggest concern is that it's radio-opaque, so when patients receive a dental x-ray, it shows up on the film and may obscure visualization of the dentition. The product is semi-permanent as it reportedly lasts 2-5 years." It is currently used as an off-label indication for soft tissue augmentation.

* Sculptra (New-Fill). Made in the United States, this product is composed of injectable poly-L-lactic acid (absorbable vicryl suture material). It has received FDA approval as a dermal contouring agent to help restore lost facial volume in patients with lipoatrophy. It requires reconstitution with 5 cc of liquid (4 cc of water and 1 cc of lidocaine) and mandates a 26-gauge needle for placement.

* Silicone. This product has been around for a very long time, and there is a renaissance in its popularity, Dr. Matarasso said. "Clearly it is the original permanent filling agent, and when medical-grade silicone is used, the results can be very gratifying, especially with acne scars and facial wasting," he said. "However, there is an increasing use of adulterated silicone that can produce painful granulomas that require surgical removal."

He concluded by saying that the ideal cosmetic filler "is still on the horizon. I think we're going to see a lot more of them, especially semi-permanent ones. I think the true art here the onus on your shoulders--is selecting the appropriate filler to meet each patient's needs."

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On an additional note, I've never had fillers put in... but just had a consult with a dermatolgoist. He said he'd put Restalyne in all my scars and that for 9 months i'd notice improvement and think the $600 was worth it. I've set up consults with two other dermatlogists too though, since this one doctor didn't know what subcision was so I'm not sure how much in the past he's helped acne patients... but $600 seemsr easonable for 9 months. Hell, it seems it'd probably only last 6 months from what i understand, but i'd do it twice a year until artecol takes off, or aquamid gets approved, or something. I'd pay a very high price to look even remotely unscarred smile.gif

By the way, does anyone know what hte recovery time is with these fillers? Oldguy, how much time off work should I take after having restalyne injected? I dont want people to see me bruised up ...

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I didn't bruise at all, (I rarely do) and the redness and slight puffiness was totally gone within 4 days. Your mileage may vary, especially with regards to bruising. If you had it done on a Friday you should be good to go by Monday. If a doctor injects too quickly that can cause bruises, btw.

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I read ariticles that mention and confirm this to be permanent:

www.lipostructure.com

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Silicon is permanent and I see no reason why it cant be used for acne scars.

It is used for Breaat Implants and that is permanent and it is putting a foreign object in your body without being rejected.

When something is new people are always suspisious and the FDA are a waste of time.

If anyone knows any doctors in the UK doing it please let me know.This may be a life saver for me.

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Silicon is permanent and I see no reason why it cant be used for acne scars.

It is used for Breaat Implants and that is permanent and it is putting a foreign object in your body without being rejected.

When something is new people are always suspisious and the FDA are a waste of time.

If anyone knows any doctors in the UK doing it please let me know.This may be a life saver for me.

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I have had 3 rounds of LIS from Dr. Orentriech in NY. The first in Sept 2004 and the last in Dec 2004. I have not had any negative side effects. The scars are improving. They are still very much there but they do look better then they ever have. Dr. O said I have probably gained the most improvement I can expect from the injections and that I should persue dermabrasion as my next procedure.

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Tamara,

You usually have very good and correct info, but for you to say

"There's a lot of info out there about silicone breast implants causing health problems."  is about as far off base as can be.

In fact, studies on over 50,000 (thats 50 THOUSAND) patients has failed to show ANY link to ANY disease. In fact, it is certain that silicone implants will be back on the market for anyone in the near future. They have still been used (actually never stopped) for breast reconstruction patients.

However, I still believe silcone injections are a horrible idea. Not because silcone causes health problems but because of the long term local complications of liquid silicone.

Just remember, in most states, if a doctor injects liquid silicone, he/she will get their license suspended.

Believe me, there is a reason for that.

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Oldguy,im having isolagen done maybe because im having it payed for by the PCT (primary car trust) but i was thinking of having bio-alcamid.

Yes you are right oldguy,what i ment to say was that collagen and my own fat just vanished.

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Just got your PM Sam, and thanks a lot for clarifying. rolleyes.gifwink.gif Hope things go well with the Isolagen! I wish it was available in the states (Even though it doesn't last as long as they claim) - I can't really bring myself to be injected with unnatural substances, and I do think I will end up wanting a long-term filler later this year. I can't be @ss*d with twice a year Restylane injections or anything like that again. Hello... Silicone. doubt.gif [/Neuman-JerrySeinfeldVoice]

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