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Catharsis2018

Do y’all think I’m ready for phenol?

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update 2 (06/20/2022): Yesterday, I was visiting my mom and her new kittens and one of them invariably scratched my nose and below my right eye - leaving a long laceration on my nose and a puncture below my left eye. I began to bawl. My mom questioned why I was bawling, and I spoke aloud the thoughts racing in my head: I can’t deal with potentially having another two scars to treat when I have such difficult treatable acne scars in the first place. To my annoyance, she went on some rant about how “no one notices my scars and I am delusioned”. Extremely irritating to hear, especially when your mother has porcelain skin (seriously - porcelain. My whole life, she has had perfect porcelain skin. Sometimes people do a double fake when I introduce her as my mom and my worst self-critic says it’s because of the difference in our skin). Anyways.. long story short, I took a few facial photos last night in my teary state in her living room… and despite the overhead lighting at my moms, my scars are looking more shallow (no where near where I’d like them to be. But I have been doing monthly Secret PRO RFM + light co2 peel in the same session and will continue this regimen until my phenol in December. So far I have done two sessions - third session is booked for this afternoon. The other part of me says my scars look better because of the lighting.. though in the past I’ve taken photos in this lighting before at her place and thought my scars looked worse). As for the mental, I am trying to find a therapist… not sure why I didn’t do this sooner, maybe denial.. but at this point, I think it’s needed.
 CDEAD395-E18F-4774-876F-ADA0597E64D0.jpeg.ab23a739e2c5d7ee42622bc13cce1339.jpeg

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Edit: Just wanted to post an update... I paid my down deposit and have officially booked my Phenol Peel for December 2022. I'm elated.. and nervous....but most of all, pretty excited. I plan on doing monthly RF Microneedling coupled with light CO2 peel (in the same session) monthly up to December 2022.

 

Honestly man, I’ve done a plethora of treatments since I began my acne scar journey. Kinda makes me sick to think about all of the $$$$$ I’ve spent… 

im talking… 

8-9 blunt cannula subcision sessions (3 with sculptra and 3 with Radiesse)

3 Infini RF sessions

4-5 TCA cross sessions 

1 fractional co2

1 fully ablative Erbium (just for the cheeks)

one visit to Rullan for the trio 

two sculptra 

Punch excision of over 15 scars 

and this is on the top of my head. There’s probably a few I’ve forgotten to mention.

it sucks. Acne scars suck. Not a day goes by where I don’t think how my life would be different if I didn’t have these scars. Mentally I’m ready for phenol. Physically I may not be there yet. But I haven’t even been able to find a doc willing to do subcision for me, the rationale is that my scars are so much to the surface… but maybe it’s time for phenol then? Looking for input, I think. 
photos below were taken 5 mins ago (aka the three photos below are where so am now after all my acne scarring treatments)01CCC0BB-1317-4B69-AF67-5507936B06C7.jpeg.b61c6ff80893faa71707fb598505ec5d.jpegE3809831-66C4-474E-B779-4530AF6A049D.jpeg.5f8f39248c34f9846f1ab831c4d76479.jpegB21D081D-FF4D-4C13-91FC-74501A55CDDF.jpeg.6f644f9cceffefa36a97c3fc8d17b24a.jpeg
 

a comparison to photos of my day zero (the three photos below are before any acne scar treatments)

January 2019 (before any acne scar treatments / subcision / excision):

79D81772-4FBC-4886-892B-AE21C755452B.jpeg.87959ccc3bda90d6c7d5196ff2aad4b3.jpeg


November  2019 (after one acne scar cannula subcision + sculptra injection):

D68A3837-883D-4B33-A0DB-93B21AD8FDEA.jpeg.940095c94540e8de760d5d804b5cfa8c.jpeg
 

March 2020 (after 3 subcision + sculptra):  

C711565B-725E-4929-AE06-BC795ACE6DAA.jpeg.6e7109c358af84db6330ce338f4a41a1.jpeg

 

last time I spoke to Rullan he wanted me to do a few more trios. But fuck that. I’m in Canada ffs. And I think phenol is the only thing now that will give me a substantial difference. His office is willing to do another consult with me for the phenol though. So maybe it will go in my favour. 

Edited by Catharsis2018
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I think phenol could be bad for texture, that's just my hunch from reading cases and seeing photos, but would probably help. Did you get much improvement from the procedures, especially the fully ablative co2 erbium? 

The cost and amount of things you've done without more success is definitely confusing to me to be honest. But I can't see your face beforehand to see what improved if any. Having so many punch excisions and tca and subscisions. 

What spots where you subscising and putting filler in? Because your cheek scars may be noticeable(especially from angles like the rest of us), but they seem to have edges and not as large in general, which makes me curious as to why subscision was chosen but that's just a curiosity.

I had success from dermabrasion as most know, maybe you should consider the other ablative procedures you haven't tried yet, namely dermabrasion or phenol. I welcome other's suggestions. Personally I think you've done way too many small things that didn't sort of have a compounding effect. You might be better off as you are now searching to just do a large ablative.

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45 minutes ago, harmlessboy1441 said:

I think phenol could be bad for texture, that's just my hunch from reading cases and seeing photos, but would probably help. Did you get much improvement from the procedures, especially the fully ablative co2 erbium? 

The cost and amount of things you've done without more success is definitely confusing to me to be honest. But I can't see your face beforehand to see what improved if any. Having so many punch excisions and tca and subscisions. 

What spots where you subscising and putting filler in? Because your cheek scars may be noticeable(especially from angles like the rest of us), but they seem to have edges and not as large in general, which makes me curious as to why subscision was chosen but that's just a curiosity.

I had success from dermabrasion as most know, maybe you should consider the other ablative procedures you haven't tried yet, namely dermabrasion or phenol. I welcome other's suggestions. Personally I think you've done way too many small things that didn't sort of have a compounding effect. You might be better off as you are now searching to just do a large ablative.

The below 3 photos are the befores, the top photos were taken today 

yeah. Honestly the last derm I saw told me I need to be focused on ablation now. But so hard to find someone that does dermabrasion. Where did you have dermabrasion done?

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it won't fix the bottom 3 pictures (overhead lights scar) but can improve texture seen from the top 3. (By improve I mean the border of the scars are way less defined. You would have to be up close or focus to see the shape of the scars). If this is going to be your last procedure, I'd say go for it.

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10 minutes ago, Catharsis2018 said:

The below 3 photos are the befores, the top photos were taken today 

yeah. Honestly the last derm I saw told me I need to be focused on ablation now. But so hard to find someone that does dermabrasion. Where did you have dermabrasion done?

Yeah, so you definitely got some  improvement although that's a huge amount of procedures. All of the sharpness is gone. Yes I think you could try a phenol if a doctor suggests it, it might help blend and tighten but it could be rough on texture. 

Did you get good results from erbium? Because technically that's what I think you need, ablative that blends it better more level.

I got Dermabrasion done around 2004 from a now retired doctor east coast. It was just a local one, nothing special. Just lucked out and he literally nuked my cheeks where it didn't fade back to normal color until 12 months. I don't know why, but I don't see many do it anymore. It's weird because they say laser is better but I don't see it from reading. To be blunt just looking at your before pictures if you had the same success from Dermabrasion that I did, you'd likely have double the improvement but it may be person specific Idk.

Edited by harmlessboy1441
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Yup go for phenol peel the worst is he will do regional phenol again for the leftover scarring only on the cheek area and you don’t even have to stay in San Diego, you can fly the same day out. Which is usually 20 percent of the total cost. So the second procedure is like getting a trio with him. Best case is you do it and respond great and you are good to go. We all need fillers in the end when he scar edge is slanting.I believe the scar edge should be less than 10 degrees for filler to work. Besides angle what matters also is depth of the scar.

by the way how much have you spend in acne scarring total and also can you tell about traveling cost. Also, what happened with the tca scar did that resolve. So far I can’t see in the pictures.

CBF5680C-0BB7-4B15-A208-B53FF35CC18A.jpeg

32C39D97-37A5-4CA7-9B9F-1E95EF0D227F.jpeg

Edited by getsmart121
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OMG. I can't imagine how much money and time all of that costs. I'm not judging one bit because acne seriously does suck and I've gotten many treatments as well. Before you spend any more money, I suggest that you do more research because some of the treatments may be unnecessary.

Subcision doesn't offer that much more improvement after a number of times. I understand that scars retether, but after a handful of times, you should get the most results you will from this procedure.

Not a fan of micro RF such as Infini. I got it done twice and didn't see results. Didn't get side effects but didn't see improvement. Really depends on your scars. I don't think it's a good value. 

Unless you have really shallow scars, Erbium isn't going to make too much of a difference.

Fractional CO2 is doctor and settings dependent. I've gotten the same treatment from two doctors using the same device. One got me results and the other did not. Maybe you can explore this if you are comfortable taking the risks and downtime of a more aggressive treatment.

Rullan is someone I've recommended but results are not guaranteed. I saw him almost a dozen times and I don't know if I'll continue to see him. Not saying that he hasn't delivered results because some people here posted positive stories of their experiences. I just have several stubborn scars that didn't improve as I had hoped with his treatments. The trio is not cheap so sleep on it.

If you spend $6k+ on Phenol and don't see improvement, what's next?

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2 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

OMG. I can't imagine how much money and time all of that costs. I'm not judging one bit because acne seriously does suck and I've gotten many treatments as well. Before you spend any more money, I suggest that you do more research because some of the treatments may be unnecessary.

Subcision doesn't offer that much more improvement after a number of times. I understand that scars retether, but after a handful of times, you should get the most results you will from this procedure.

Not a fan of micro RF such as Infini. I got it done twice and didn't see results. Didn't get side effects but didn't see improvement. Really depends on your scars. I don't think it's a good value. 

Unless you have really shallow scars, Erbium isn't going to make too much of a difference.

Fractional CO2 is doctor and settings dependent. I've gotten the same treatment from two doctors using the same device. One got me results and the other did not. Maybe you can explore this if you are comfortable taking the risks and downtime of a more aggressive treatment.

Rullan is someone I've recommended but results are not guaranteed. I saw him almost a dozen times and I don't know if I'll continue to see him. Not saying that he hasn't delivered results because some people here posted positive stories of their experiences. I just have several stubborn scars that didn't improve as I had hoped with his treatments. The trio is not cheap so sleep on it.

If you spend $6k+ on Phenol and don't see improvement, what's next?

yes exactly. So much pain, money, time, hopes. Sigh… though I guess we are trying to do the possible when working with scarred skin for improvement 
 

 What sort of treatments have you done with Rullan? What is the improvement you have gauged after each treatment and cumulatively? 
If I do phenol, and I’m still not happy, I may even do a second phenol. I’ve been saving the money up for it. But I’m not sure if he will even agree to do a phenol for me. He was adamant before about me doing two more trios with him first… 

Edited by Catharsis2018
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1 hour ago, catchingFeelings said:

phenol does not heal acne scars. if you are planning to do one last treatment without worrying about money, i recommend salar hazany.

Im not looking to heal anything, more so looking at how to fix the texture up and get things just a bit more level

plus from the posts I’ve read it sounds like salar hazany is a scam artist 

Edited by Catharsis2018
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18 minutes ago, Catharsis2018 said:

Im not looking to heal anything, more so looking at how to fix the texture up and get things just a bit more level

plus from the posts I’ve read it sounds like salar hazany is a scam artist 

I don't think phenol would be a bad choice but it still contains some risks. I would suggest dermabrasion but I'm not an expert on whether it could actually undo any previous gains because it targets a vast amount of epidermis and could, presumably (i'm just guessing) open up some lack of fat underneath given the previous picks. I may be wrong. I'm just basing this on the fact that when I got mine he had to stop in 2 spots which created 1/2 inch scars and said "I had to stop I encountered tissue loss underneath here" I still have the scars to this day but they are level just worse than before. Of course it may be dependent entirely on talent and luck. May be able to shave off enough to make it mostly level and indistinguishable. I simply don't know.

As for phenol it seems like a decent choice. 

You've pretty much tried everything else and it's well improved but I agree you need a good solution to blend the texture better. You have not much sharp edges, just need some leveling. Seems like laser was so-so but probably not the best choice here. 

 

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His office is all over the place. I'm not even sure if he's the one looking at your email photos. He's only got two things he does 1 phenol peel and 2 trio. 

 

I get the feeling acid doesnt work, but I could be wrong

9 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

OMG. I can't imagine how much money and time all of that costs. I'm not judging one bit because acne seriously does suck and I've gotten many treatments as well. Before you spend any more money, I suggest that you do more research because some of the treatments may be unnecessary.

Subcision doesn't offer that much more improvement after a number of times. I understand that scars retether, but after a handful of times, you should get the most results you will from this procedure.

Not a fan of micro RF such as Infini. I got it done twice and didn't see results. Didn't get side effects but didn't see improvement. Really depends on your scars. I don't think it's a good value. 

Unless you have really shallow scars, Erbium isn't going to make too much of a difference.

Fractional CO2 is doctor and settings dependent. I've gotten the same treatment from two doctors using the same device. One got me results and the other did not. Maybe you can explore this if you are comfortable taking the risks and downtime of a more aggressive treatment.

Rullan is someone I've recommended but results are not guaranteed. I saw him almost a dozen times and I don't know if I'll continue to see him. Not saying that he hasn't delivered results because some people here posted positive stories of their experiences. I just have several stubborn scars that didn't improve as I had hoped with his treatments. The trio is not cheap so sleep on it.

If you spend $6k+ on Phenol and don't see improvement, what's next?

 

How do I ensure my doc or nurse that does CO2 is good? And how much improvement did you have from fractional CO2?

51 minutes ago, Catharsis2018 said:

So an update.. I am now looking into dermabrasion as well

Give us an update on how it goes. 

Edited by dirigo39
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16 hours ago, Catharsis2018 said:

Hiçbir şeyi iyileştirmeyi düşünmüyorum, dahası dokuyu nasıl düzelteceğime ve işleri biraz daha seviyeli hale getirmeye bakıyorum.

artı okuduğum yazılardan salar hazany'nin bir dolandırıcı olduğu anlaşılıyor 

what makes you think he is a scammer?

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Williams center in ny is doing dermabrasion. I think dr rullan peel doesn’t do aggressive dermabrasion in the sense that it is more like spot and only targeted for the edges, and when he abrades the skin it is more like the scar plus healthy skin layer is removed that’s all and we are hoping that while healing the depressed are fill up or smooth out. Basically we are depending on recovery element of the skin. In dermabrasion you are not hoping on recovery since you abrading healthy skin to abnormal skin. So in theory a dermabrasion technique is superior as we are forcing the cutting of healthy skin. And should be reserved for at the end of scar journey. Because we don’t want to go to the level of unhealthy skin. So yes scar revision comes first cross, subcision,punch excision, co2 laser for edges, full abaltive erbium on edges. Once the scars are closer to surface we can go for dermabrasion or phenol depending on risk tolerance.

Edited by getsmart121
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15 hours ago, getsmart121 said:

Also here is something if anybody wanted to live that scar free life for a day it’s called dermaflage

 

I researched this about a year ago. The reviews are pretty bad which is why I opted not to try. Many said it "peels" randomly and becomes evident, while others say it doesn't look natural. Whether it's true or not I don't really know. It was interesting enough to me to look it up and I do wish it worked personally it would be a lifesaver but I think it too easily peels by the edges perhaps is the main reason. Like any sweat or anything and you see it peel I guess. It was described as an invention by hollywood at the time to mask stuff I think.

Anyway, if anyone knows any more/better I'm all ears. It was interesting. For the heavier scarred people it might be worth it even with peeling risks maybe idk.

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I've done 3 rounds of RF needling and received little improvement. I received better results from microneedling with PRP/PRF. This along with Bellafill really helped me. Are you in the LA area?

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On 2/21/2022 at 4:22 PM, dirigo39 said:

His office is all over the place. I'm not even sure if he's the one looking at your email photos. He's only got two things he does 1 phenol peel and 2 trio. 

 

I get the feeling acid doesnt work, but I could be wrong

 

How do I ensure my doc or nurse that does CO2 is good? And how much improvement did you have from fractional CO2?

Give us an update on how it goes. 

You have to do lots of research and see what people on forums say. Even if people like me got improvement, every person has different scars. Lasers are not going to improve rolling scars that much. Every doctor will have different machines and he/she will say his/her devices are the best or sufficient. No, sometimes they only use what they have and not what is best for your scars. 

Where are you located?

On 2/21/2022 at 9:52 AM, Catharsis2018 said:

yes exactly. So much pain, money, time, hopes. Sigh… though I guess we are trying to do the possible when working with scarred skin for improvement 
 

 What sort of treatments have you done with Rullan? What is the improvement you have gauged after each treatment and cumulatively? 
If I do phenol, and I’m still not happy, I may even do a second phenol. I’ve been saving the money up for it. But I’m not sure if he will even agree to do a phenol for me. He was adamant before about me doing two more trios with him first… 

Phenol Cross was done about 4-5 times. I have stubborn boxcar scars. Maybe Cross did help but it's hard to tell. I didn't get any widening of scars but I don't think it's not impossible. 

I had subcision once but that was just because I had money to spend. I only have a few rolling scars so I didn't see improvement. But other people have seen results so I'm not saying it doesn't work.

I got the Pixel Erbium laser done a few times. Those didn't help my scars but I'm sure if I did it 50 more times, I could see a difference. It's probably good for superficial issues though but most of us aren't here for these.

Rullan doesn't strike me as a doctor who is money hungry but he did raise his fees but a good amount after seeing more traffic come in. 

Sometimes it makes me wonder if TCA is better - higher risks but maybe better rewards? I've only done TCA once so I can't make this determination. 

Laser treatments did help me but they are not for everybody.

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7 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:

You have to do lots of research and see what people on forums say. Even if people like me got improvement, every person has different scars. Lasers are not going to improve rolling scars that much. Every doctor will have different machines and he/she will say his/her devices are the best or sufficient. No, sometimes they only use what they have and not what is best for your scars. 

Where are you located?

Phenol Cross was done about 4-5 times. I have stubborn boxcar scars. Maybe Cross did help but it's hard to tell. I didn't get any widening of scars but I don't think it's not impossible. 

I had subcision once but that was just because I had money to spend. I only have a few rolling scars so I didn't see improvement. But other people have seen results so I'm not saying it doesn't work.

I got the Pixel Erbium laser done a few times. Those didn't help my scars but I'm sure if I did it 50 more times, I could see a difference. It's probably good for superficial issues though but most of us aren't here for these.

Rullan doesn't strike me as a doctor who is money hungry but he did raise his fees but a good amount after seeing more traffic come in. 

Sometimes it makes me wonder if TCA is better - higher risks but maybe better rewards? I've only done TCA once so I can't make this determination. 

Laser treatments did help me but they are not for everybody.

 

Im in FL. Erbiums are weak lasers. I had the pixel CO2 and it helped them went back to normal. 

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7 minutes ago, dirigo39 said:

 

Im in FL. Erbiums are weak lasers. I had the pixel CO2 and it helped them went back to normal. 

Don't get conned by your "improvement" a few weeks after lasers. The improvement is mostly swelling. My skin looked really good after a CO2 treatment and then the scars looked more obvious months after.

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34 minutes ago, Amanda Hall said:

Don't get conned by your "improvement" a few weeks after lasers. The improvement is mostly swelling. My skin looked really good after a CO2 treatment and then the scars looked more obvious months after.

 

No I didn't see improvement until 3 months after the pixel co2. It actually looked a little worst the first month. 

 

What kind of laser did you use?

Edited by dirigo39
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On 2/23/2022 at 10:52 PM, getsmart121 said:

Williams center in ny is doing dermabrasion. I think dr rullan peel doesn’t do aggressive dermabrasion in the sense that it is more like spot and only targeted for the edges, and when he abrades the skin it is more like the scar plus healthy skin layer is removed that’s all and we are hoping that while healing the depressed are fill up or smooth out. Basically we are depending on recovery element of the skin. In dermabrasion you are not hoping on recovery since you abrading healthy skin to abnormal skin. So in theory a dermabrasion technique is superior as we are forcing the cutting of healthy skin. And should be reserved for at the end of scar journey. Because we don’t want to go to the level of unhealthy skin. So yes scar revision comes first cross, subcision,punch excision, co2 laser for edges, full abaltive erbium on edges. Once the scars are closer to surface we can go for dermabrasion or phenol depending on risk tolerance.

This looks identical to the dermabrasion I got but mine was probably more aggressive than this or deeper or wider or something. I bled just like that for 2 days maybe with nothing but 2 sets of sticky thick bandages. I had endless scars on my cheeks, icepicks, from a few years of practically uncontrolled acne. I still to this day think it's the most viable procedure, if and only if, it works for your select scars/situation, etc. Yes it has risks, but shaving down those scars seems like no other procedure would've produced the same results that practically blend them with normal skin. Maybe I just have those blinders on because my success was so vast with just 1 procedure but the other guy who had it on the other thread (who just did a subscision/filler) also did the same thing and called it life changing. So I think when it works it REALLY works.

I don't know about combining with laser or anything else. I don't even know if dermabrasion could "undo" prior progress because it was my first and only procedure that was so vast of an improvement, I practically never did anything else. I think part of the reason was I was too afraid if the new skin or scar tissue could be undone by other procedures.

Edited by harmlessboy1441
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How the f did he got so much improvement in 1 session on deep icepick and boxcars from dermabrasion. Sometimes I even question on the tradition scar knowledge I.e raising scars up before doing this deep procedures. But like how. HE didn’t mention the doctor name but I am guessing it is this clinic, In the post he said 2500 and I found the same price in this location.

https://www.realself.com/review/tulsa-dermabrasion-works

https://www.dermatologylaserok.com/scars-dermabrasion.html#accordion

 

Edited by getsmart121
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