They are either radically different lighting/angles, photoshopped or blurred, or taken when the person has swelling after a procedure.
People are not being honest and telling people with scars that this is a difficult and long journey.
Doctors also don't mention that these treatments and the recovery periods can be painful. I felt a lot of pain during my microneedling treatment (part of a "trio", even though I had local anesthetic and took pain relief pills beforehand) and was in extreme pain the next week. I felt like my face was on fire when I had to drive myself home after my first full face laser ( had numbing cream and took ibuprofen before hand).
If I had known that I would need to take two day's worth of tylenol and aleve before the appointment, I would have done that.
I spent 3500 with a well known "expert" and had a 10% improvement. Then, I went to a laser center and had a much more noticeable improvement for a dramatically lower price. I do think that getting subcision with an "expert" helped, but the laser treatments were more effective for *me*.
Some people on here act like you are throwing your money away if you get lasers (which is true, if you don't do subcision first for tethered scars) or don't go to one of the top docs mentioned on here. If your budget only allows you to go to Dr Soandso in TN or MS, that's fine! I don't think it's worth it for everybody to pay for an airplane ticket, a hotel, and miss a week of work just to go to a famous doc.
I can't get my money back, and I don't want to be mad about it, but I can share that there's some serious misconceptions here that get pushed and promoted as gospel.
I've thought about making a youtube channel to share my journey and break down all my scar treatments, and the things I wish I had known. I might just share my journey on here. I needed to rant and get it out of my system.
I can do a photo collage to share my progress later, but I am also at a point where it feels so frustrating to go against the grain of "holy grail" opinions on here.
I agree with you 100%. They are a lot of fraud doctors around for example Lim, he literally lies in his videos, he states that he doesnt work with BA, but BA told me that he work with him. BA didmislead so much people and advertise only a few doctors on this platform. Sometimes he also did say some stuff that make sense, but his treatment plans were mostly the same for everyone. I mean you can do sub, Tca, MRF and Laser nothing else, this is no rocket science. Find and good doctor and try the stuff out there is nothing else you can do. But docs like limsay that 90% is possible, well yeah Lim should produce Star Wars movies with his fake lighting tricks... and only with these tricks you can achieve 90%, his B&As are fake and some people might believe that BS. The only doctor I know that is okay is Emil, I have a stubborn Lump after his sub, but he takes at least responsibility and is willing to help me and I honor that.
BA and some doctors are so fake. BA even did claim that I did say something against Emil and that is simply not true , I was literally shocked when I did hear that because I only talk positive about him.
6 minutes ago, Jason2121 said:I agree with you 100%. They are a lot of fraud doctors around for example Lim, he literally lies in his videos, he states that he doesnt work with BA, but BA told me that he work with him. BA didmislead so much people and advertise only a few doctors on this platform. Sometimes he also did say some stuff that make sense, but his treatment plans were mostly the same for everyone. I mean you can do sub, Tca, MRF and Laser nothing else, this is no rocket science. Find and good doctor and try the stuff out there is nothing else you can do. But docs like limsay that 90% is possible, well yeah Lim should produce Star Wars movies with his fake lighting tricks... and only with these tricks you can achieve 90%, his B&As are fake and some people might believe that BS. The only doctor I know that is okay is Emil, I have a stubborn Lump after his sub, but he takes at least responsibility and is willing to help me and I honor that.
BA and some doctors are so fake. BA even did claim that I did say something against Emil and that is simply not true , I was literally shocked when I did hear that because I only talk positive about him.
Yeah, every photo needs a disclaimer that says when the photo was taken relative to treatment. I have a pic 6 days after my trio and my face is completely smooth. 6 months later, my face looked scarred again. If someone only saw the first pic, they would think I had a 100% improvement.
8 hours ago, mariadulce23 said:They are either radically different lighting/angles, photoshopped or blurred, or taken when the person has swelling after a procedure.
People are not being honest and telling people with scars that this is a difficult and long journey.
Doctors also don't mention that these treatments and the recovery periods can be painful. I felt a lot of pain during my microneedling treatment (part of a "trio", even though I had local anesthetic and took pain relief pills beforehand) and was in extreme pain the next week. I felt like my face was on fire when I had to drive myself home after my first full face laser ( had numbing cream and took ibuprofen before hand).
If I had known that I would need to take two day's worth of tylenol and aleve before the appointment, I would have done that.
I spent 3500 with a well known "expert" and had a 10% improvement. Then, I went to a laser center and had a much more noticeable improvement for a dramatically lower price. I do think that getting subcision with an "expert" helped, but the laser treatments were more effective for *me*.
Some people on here act like you are throwing your money away if you get lasers (which is true, if you don't do subcision first for tethered scars) or don't go to one of the top docs mentioned on here. If your budget only allows you to go to Dr Soandso in TN or MS, that's fine! I don't think it's worth it for everybody to pay for an airplane ticket, a hotel, and miss a week of work just to go to a famous doc.
I can't get my money back, and I don't want to be mad about it, but I can share that there's some serious misconceptions here that get pushed and promoted as gospel.
I've thought about making a youtube channel to share my journey and break down all my scar treatments, and the things I wish I had known. I might just share my journey on here. I needed to rant and get it out of my system.
I can do a photo collage to share my progress later, but I am also at a point where it feels so frustrating to go against the grain of "holy grail" opinions on here.
Yep! RF microneedling was the worst for me - it was incredibly painful. It's impossible to do a full treatment without Pro-Nox. Doctors will tell you recovery is half of what it actually is.
Lasers helped me the most even though many people say to do it last or not at all. Cross didn't do anything. It really depends on what scars you have so I would caution people to think that one treatment works best for everyone.
15 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:Yep! RF microneedling was the worst for me - it was incredibly painful. It's impossible to do a full treatment without Pro-Nox. Doctors will tell you recovery is half of what it actually is.
Lasers helped me the most even though many people say to do it last or not at all. Cross didn't do anything. It really depends on what scars you have so I would caution people to think that one treatment works best for
I agree with you. Ablative lasers seem to deliver better results (if you heal well)than RFM.
just got my 2nd fraxel 1550 treatment, and now have some painful cysts on my face. it was in the warning document they made me sign, but it's still a bummer. I've had a decent improvement with the first 1550 treatment, and I broke out after that too. I have one more treatment scheduled, and after that, I don't think I will do any more treatments. I think I'll just have to live with my face. I wish I had been told that I might have painful cysts after the procedure, that the procedure can be incredibly painful. Of course, I didn't get a warning until I was in the office for the appointment and was reading the docs they made me sign, which lists fainting as a potential side effect. I'm still upset that I was not given a warning about pain or told to stock up on painkiller beforehand. These workers had the gaul to say that most patients are fine with one tylenol. gtfoh!
On 4/1/2021 at 1:24 PM, mariadulce23 said:just got my 2nd fraxel 1550 treatment, and now have some painful cysts on my face. it was in the warning document they made me sign, but it's still a bummer. I've had a decent improvement with the first 1550 treatment, and I broke out after that too. I have one more treatment scheduled, and after that, I don't think I will do any more treatments. I think I'll just have to live with my face. I wish I had been told that I might have painful cysts after the procedure, that the procedure can be incredibly painful. Of course, I didn't get a warning until I was in the office for the appointment and was reading the docs they made me sign, which lists fainting as a potential side effect. I'm still upset that I was not given a warning about pain or told to stock up on painkiller beforehand. These workers had the gaul to say that most patients are fine with one tylenol. gtfoh!
Cysts? Did it get infected? Did you have the chicken pox prior, I ask because sometimes laser can re-activate the chicken pox virus / herpes virusin your body unless you take an anti-viral drug for a few days after your treatment. Or did you mean cystic acne type of cyst? In which case a very good vitamin-a derivative might help to relieve the oil build up inside the cyst. Consulting with the specialist who performed the laser should provide solutions to the cyst issue. If you feel your trust was broken with the specialist who performed the procedure due to not informing you about the pain you can seek a consultation with a dermatologist who is board certified and I would hope that the dermatologist has solutions to the cyst issue. Ultimately, it is important for you to feel safe and comfortable as well as recovering wellafter an intense procedure. I am sorry you had to go through that.
*Note: I am not a doctor and I am not giving medical advise, I am simply curious aboutyour skin concerns and providing information based off of my own experiences.
On 4/1/2021 at 12:24 PM, mariadulce23 said:just got my 2nd fraxel 1550 treatment, and now have some painful cysts on my face. it was in the warning document they made me sign, but it's still a bummer. I've had a decent improvement with the first 1550 treatment, and I broke out after that too. I have one more treatment scheduled, and after that, I don't think I will do any more treatments. I think I'll just have to live with my face. I wish I had been told that I might have painful cysts after the procedure, that the procedure can be incredibly painful. Of course, I didn't get a warning until I was in the office for the appointment and was reading the docs they made me sign, which lists fainting as a potential side effect. I'm still upset that I was not given a warning about pain or told to stock up on painkiller beforehand. These workers had the gaul to say that most patients are fine with one tylenol. gtfoh!
I agree I've done scultra subcision and rfm per BAs recommendation. I've seen minimal results.
1 hour ago, Dontgiveupitsonlyscars said:Cysts? Did it get infected? Did you have the chicken pox prior, I ask because sometimes laser can re-activate the chicken pox virus / herpes virusin your body unless you take an anti-viral drug for a few days after your treatment. Or did you mean cystic acne type of cyst? In which case a very good vitamin-a derivative might help to relieve the oil build up inside the cyst. Consulting with the specialist who performed the laser should provide solutions to the cyst issue. If you feel your trust was broken with the specialist who performed the procedure due to not informing you about the pain you can seek a consultation with a dermatologist who is board certified and I would hope that the dermatologist has solutions to the cyst issue. Ultimately, it is important for you to feel safe and comfortable as well as recovering wellafter an intense procedure. I am sorry you had to go through that.
*Note: I am not a doctor and I am not giving medical advise, I am simply curious aboutyour skin concerns and providing information based off of my own experiences.
Thank you for your kindness. I do feel kind of violated that the possibility of pain was not explained to me during the consultation. With the first derm, who is very popular on here, I never got a warning about the pain at all. i asked the lady who is the office manager who handles the appts, and she said most people are fine with 1 tylenol beforehand. LIES! I felt like I had nerve damage with that one. i really want to warn people that they may need several pain pills beforehand.
About the cysts: I meant cystic acne bumps. I'm taking vitamin a and some other supplements to reduce the acne.I will go back to the derm because the results have been good so far. I just think they need to be clear about the risks during the consultation process. It seems unethical to me. After this next treatment, I am not planning on getting any more. I will work on self acceptance.
Just now, dirigo39 said:
I agree I've done scultra subcision and rfm per BAs recommendation. I've seen minimal results.
Yeah, I didn't want to rant on here, but I went to a well known doc and had two appts that had subcision and other things, and 6 months after, it was like nothing happened at all. Maybe I should have paid 10k and had 5 sessions back to back, but I couldn't take the risk of going to the same dr and spending 1750 per appt and not getting any results. I would have bankrupted myself. I went to a non famous derm and have had results. The drawback is the pain during the procedure.
11 hours ago, mariadulce23 said:Thank you for your kindness. I do feel kind of violated that the possibility of pain was not explained to me during the consultation. With the first derm, who is very popular on here, I never got a warning about the pain at all. i asked the lady who is the office manager who handles the appts, and she said most people are fine with 1 tylenol beforehand. LIES! I felt like I had nerve damage with that one. i really want to warn people that they may need several pain pills beforehand.
About the cysts: I meant cystic acne bumps. I'm taking vitamin a and some other supplements to reduce the acne.I will go back to the derm because the results have been good so far. I just think they need to be clear about the risks during the consultation process. It seems unethical to me. After this next treatment, I am not planning on getting any more. I will work on self acceptance.
Yeah, I didn't want to rant on here, but I went to a well known doc and had two appts that had subcision and other things, and 6 months after, it was like nothing happened at all. Maybe I should have paid 10k and had 5 sessions back to back, but I couldn't take the risk of going to the same dr and spending 1750 per appt and not getting any results. I would have bankrupted myself. I went to a non famous derm and have had results. The drawback is the pain during the procedure.
I completely understand andsupport your decision. The treatments for acne scarring can be excruciatingly painful and it truly takes a tollon you. That, and its highly expensive for an average person and the results are usually minimal, which means it may requiremore treatments that are painful. So yes, I empathize with you. The pain has never been easy for me. I had an experience similar to yours once where the doctor didnt inform me about a painful procedure and I was shocked and bursted out crying while the procedure was being performed. It was embarrassing and defeating. So take the time that you need to reassess this scar journey and if you come to find that you arent one for treatments, its okay, thats perfectly fine. You are more than just your scars. You could even argue that the scars add character to someone, shows their resilience. At the end of the day we are all trying to enjoy life and there comes a moment where you say enough is enough,I just want to live. With that said, I am here to support you and many people like us. Its just scars. Dont give up on living your life.
2 hours ago, mariadulce23 said:The treatments before laser didn't do anything at all.
It's the laser that's been helping me.
What I don't understand is why if of all energy-based devices lasers, and co2 ablative lasers in particular, stimulate the most collagen and remove scar tissue in fractional columns, why are they used only 'at the end' of the treatments? It doesn't make any sense to me. I've also seen ppl on the board with severe scars who were treated with co2 lasers right away.
About the pain level with lasers or rfm devices, I've watched some online discussionsamongdermatologists recently and they were sharing experiencethat Emla cream as local anaesthetic just doesn't do the job. You need nerve blocks, multiple, to achieve a level of comfort, and even with the block you'll still feel pain. But most derms will tell you the treatment is not painful at all. Nonsense! I'm coming to think thatthe tumescent anaesthesia is not such a bad idea at all.
Results do vary but if lasers are the most promising treatment and there is no reason for you not to get the laser, laser it is!
I agree that you need a provenexpert, not a sefl proclaimed one. I would trust my skin only to someone with a verifiable track record of laser treatments and with the proper qualification. I want to see when and where exacly the doc acquired their laser skills 'cause I don't want to end up with 'thinner skin'.
On 3/22/2021 at 6:00 AM, mariadulce23 said:They are either radically different lighting/angles, photoshopped or blurred, or taken when the person has swelling after a procedure.
People are not being honest and telling people with scars that this is a difficult and long journey.
Doctors also don't mention that these treatments and the recovery periods can be painful. I felt a lot of pain during my microneedling treatment (part of a "trio", even though I had local anesthetic and took pain relief pills beforehand) and was in extreme pain the next week. I felt like my face was on fire when I had to drive myself home after my first full face laser ( had numbing cream and took ibuprofen before hand).
If I had known that I would need to take two day's worth of tylenol and aleve before the appointment, I would have done that.
I spent 3500 with a well known "expert" and had a 10% improvement. Then, I went to a laser center and had a much more noticeable improvement for a dramatically lower price. I do think that getting subcision with an "expert" helped, but the laser treatments were more effective for *me*.
Some people on here act like you are throwing your money away if you get lasers (which is true, if you don't do subcision first for tethered scars) or don't go to one of the top docs mentioned on here. If your budget only allows you to go to Dr Soandso in TN or MS, that's fine! I don't think it's worth it for everybody to pay for an airplane ticket, a hotel, and miss a week of work just to go to a famous doc.
I can't get my money back, and I don't want to be mad about it, but I can share that there's some serious misconceptions here that get pushed and promoted as gospel.
I've thought about making a youtube channel to share my journey and break down all my scar treatments, and the things I wish I had known. I might just share my journey on here. I needed to rant and get it out of my system.
I can do a photo collage to share my progress later, but I am also at a point where it feels so frustrating to go against the grain of "holy grail" opinions on here.
I actually decided to look through my own thread which is like 9 pages long and some of my photos were taken when there was swelling and immediately after the procedure, then I would do follow ups and my skin would not look nearly as good. I think that was discouraging for some people seeing my thread, that yes I have had good improvements, but it has taken many years and I am still left with significant texture and scarring. Fixing extreme scarring is a HARD job, it will never ever be over and done with one treatment. Not even close.
Here are two of my photos, one from 2016 and one from 2018. I feel like they realistically capture the extent of my severe scarring. I do not have scarring as bad as these photos depict anymore, but it is a real journey. There is pain, there is a lot of money, there is travelling (sometimes), there is the emotional toll. It is all extremely hard and I would not wish this on my worst enemy, EVER.
I am sorry you have been through this difficult journey, too. There is always a lot of learning to be had in the context of scar revision. I am glad we can all share our journeys here. Some of us have mild, moderate scarring, some with severe/extreme scarring.
3 hours ago, shei514 said:I actually decided to look through my own thread which is like 9 pages long and some of my photos were taken when there was swelling and immediately after the procedure, then I would do follow ups and my skin would not look nearly as good. I think that was discouraging for some people seeing my thread, that yes I have had good improvements, but it has taken many years and I am still left with significant texture and scarring. Fixing extreme scarring is a HARD job, it will never ever be over and done with one treatment. Not even close.
Here are two of my photos, one from 2016 and one from 2018. I feel like they realistically capture the extent of my severe scarring. I do not have scarring as bad as these photos depict anymore, but it is a real journey. There is pain, there is a lot of money, there is travelling (sometimes), there is the emotional toll. It is all extremely hard and I would not wish this on my worst enemy, EVER.
I am sorry you have been through this difficult journey, too. There is always a lot of learning to be had in the context of scar revision. I am glad we can all share our journeys here. Some of us have mild, moderate scarring, some with severe/extreme scarring.
Your 9 page journey helped me. You were the main reason I kept coming to acne.org and then I finally created an account to share mine. It™s hard to do this all alone. I remember posting on realself first and was contacted by another acne scar patient and we had exchanged numbers and talked about which treatment to her next and what worked and which doctor said what... it was actually pretty motivating but I lost their contact. Anywho, your journey inspires me and I know you inspire others. Despite having scars, I look at things with a half glass full approach... I have gain so much knowledge and what seems like I am taking control of my life with trying to remedy my scars, even if it™s rather minimal. Either way, I am grateful for a lot of things and I feel a lot of appreciation going through this journey.
16 hours ago, Dontgiveupitsonlyscars said:Your 9 page journey helped me. You were the main reason I kept coming to acne.org and then I finally created an account to share mine. Its hard to do this all alone. I remember posting on realself first and was contacted by another acne scar patient and we had exchanged numbers and talked about which treatment to her next and what worked and which doctor said what... it was actually pretty motivating but I lost their contact. Anywho, your journey inspires me and I know you inspire others. Despite having scars, I look at things with a half glass full approach... I have gain so much knowledge and what seemslike I am taking control of my life with trying to remedy my scars, even if its rather minimal. Either way, I am grateful for a lot of things and I feel a lot of appreciation going through this journey.
Thank you! Im so glad we have a pretty supportive community here, like we are all going through the same journey.
On 4/5/2021 at 10:44 AM, Guest said:What I don't understand is why if of all energy-based devices lasers, and co2 ablative lasers in particular, stimulate the most collagen and remove scar tissue in fractional columns, why are they used only 'at the end' of the treatments? It doesn't make any sense to me. I've also seen ppl on the board with severe scars who were treated with co2 lasers right away.
About the pain level with lasers or rfm devices, I've watched some online discussionsamongdermatologists recently and they were sharing experiencethat Emla cream as local anaesthetic just doesn't do the job. You need nerve blocks, multiple, to achieve a level of comfort, and even with the block you'll still feel pain. But most derms will tell you the treatment is not painful at all. Nonsense! I'm coming to think thatthe tumescent anaesthesia is not such a bad idea at all.
Right on the money.
I've always advocated for laser treatments (if you believe in them) whenever you have downtime. This is because the recovery is long and it's really hard for people to take time off. It's not just the scabs coming off but you have to deal with PIH/PIE. But more dermatologists are doing manual methods such as Cross and subcision to lift the scars up first so that lasers can hit the more-leveled skin. I guess this makes sense theoretically, but lasers will still improve scars if you have the right doctor, laser, and scar types.
Lasers are extremely dependent on doctors, settings, and devices. I've had treatments that did zilch and I paid good money for them. For Cross, most doctors can get similar results if they aren't beginners. Same percentage TCA Cross and it just depends on where they put the acid on your scar.