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Catharsis2018

Discussion: decreasing the shadows caused by top down lighting

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As is well known by any acne scar sufferer (especially those like me who have majority box car type scarring) there are certain types of lighting that make our scarring look much worse. I have been trying to find ways to decrease the shadow caused by this lighting...such as:

 

- matte makeup

- pore fillers like benefits porefessional 

 

and based on @Sirius Lee’s advice, I am considering my next treatment to be cannula subcision with diluted saline and TCA cross. However, I am a bit worried that the TCA Cross may broaden my scars. 
 

im wondering about other techniques or treatments people have used to decrease this shadow enhancing effect?

 

any input would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Catharsis2018 said:

However, I am a bit worried that the TCA Cross may broaden my scars. 

It's been reported that only TCA 90% and higher will widen scars. So you have two choices. Either go with Phenol or stick to TCA 80%.

However, you should know that scar widening is not such a bad thing. First, it doesn't just widen the scar. It makes it shallower as well. Also if you repeat TCA 100% (at least 3 treatments), you will gradually see the blunt scar edge soften in appearance and the widened scar won't be as noticeable as before.

 

IMPORTANT: Subcision will induce swelling. You won't be able to accurately apply TCA when your face is swollen. So get TCA cross first, then subcision. 

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2 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

It's been reported that only TCA 90% and higher will widen scars. So you have two choices. Either go with Phenol or stick to TCA 80%.

However, you should know that scar widening is not such a bad thing. First, it doesn't just widen the scar. It makes it shallower as well. Also if you repeat TCA 100% (at least 3 treatments), you will gradually see the blunt scar edge soften in appearance and the widened scar won't be as noticeable as before.

 

IMPORTANT: Subcision will induce swelling. You won't be able to accurately apply TCA when your face is swollen. So get TCA cross first, then subcision. 

Hi @Sirius Lee It is interesting to know about your first statement. Could you please share the source in regards that lower percentage TCA won't widen the scars.

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51 minutes ago, Jack817 said:

Hi @Sirius Lee It is interesting to know about your first statement. Could you please share the source in regards that lower percentage TCA won't widen the scars.

Sorry, I don't exactly recall where I read it. Here's one source where it briefly talks about scar widening as one of the common complications of TCA Cross:

"Concerning the complications, persistent erythema was observed in 6 patients (42.85%). Of these, 4 patients (28.4%) were treated with phenol. Hyperpigmentation occurred in 4 patients (28.57%), 2 patients were using phenolic acid and the other two were using 90% TCA. Two individuals (14.3%) developed hypochromia, and the scars became wider in 2 patients. The 2 latter complications were only seen after the use of 90% TCA."

— Comparative Study of the Use of Trichloroacetic Acid and Phenolic Acid in the Treatment of Atrophic-Type Acne Scars (Dermatologic Surgery, 2016 Mar; 42(3):377-83.)

 

You should understand that applying 100% does NOT mean every scar will widen. Nor will it widen scars for all patients, as described above. 

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17 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

You should understand that applying 100% does NOT mean every scar will widen. Nor will it widen scars for all patients, as described above. 

Thanks a lot for the information @Sirius Lee!

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On 3/11/2021 at 2:59 PM, Catharsis2018 said:

As is well known by any acne scar sufferer (especially those like me who have majority box car type scarring) there are certain types of lighting that make our scarring look much worse. I have been trying to find ways to decrease the shadow caused by this lighting...such as:

 

- matte makeup

- pore fillers like benefits porefessional 

 

and based on @Sirius Lee’s advice, I am considering my next treatment to be cannula subcision with diluted saline and TCA cross. However, I am a bit worried that the TCA Cross may broaden my scars. 
 

im wondering about other techniques or treatments people have used to decrease this shadow enhancing effect?

 

any input would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

I don't think you should be worried about scar widening, especially in case of boxcars. I did TCA cross a month ago on three scars(narrow and deep boxcars) on my temple. All of the scars widened but are also slowly becoming shallower. The deep edges(which cause shadows) are becoming more subtle.

The way I look at this is that as the scar bed rises up and pushes the skin around it, the shape of the scar is obviously going to change. I personally think scar widening is inevitable esp for boxcars(but it's also a good thing). I feel It's natural and the way our skin reacts and heals itself.

You can try Phenol cross which "supposedly" doesn't cause the scar to widen, but honestly I'm skeptical. The sample size in the 3-4 studies that were conducted is just too low and there are too many variables(such as size of scar, depth, how much acid was applied). Every scar and every person reacts differently to treatment.

Edited by HellishDuffel
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On 3/11/2021 at 10:30 PM, Sirius Lee said:

It's been reported that only TCA 90% and higher will widen scars. So you have two choices. Either go with Phenol or stick to TCA 80%.

Where did u get that from , btw there was some poster on this forum that wrote he had phenol peel with Rulan and some of his scars got wider 

 

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On 3/12/2021 at 12:30 AM, Sirius Lee said:

It's been reported that only TCA 90% and higher will widen scars. So you have two choices. Either go with Phenol or stick to TCA 80%.

However, you should know that scar widening is not such a bad thing. First, it doesn't just widen the scar. It makes it shallower as well. Also if you repeat TCA 100% (at least 3 treatments), you will gradually see the blunt scar edge soften in appearance and the widened scar won't be as noticeable as before.

 

IMPORTANT: Subcision will induce swelling. You won't be able to accurately apply TCA when your face is swollen. So get TCA cross first, then subcision. 

Do you have source that tca higher than 85 will widen scars?

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39 minutes ago, can i get a new life please said:

Do you have source that tca higher than 85 will widen scars?

I d love to know that too 

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2 hours ago, can i get a new life please said:

Do you have source that tca higher than 85 will widen scars?

 

1 hour ago, Miro said:

I d love to know that too 

Fellas, I've already replied to that very same question above. 

  

On 3/11/2021 at 4:59 PM, Sirius Lee said:

Sorry, I don't exactly recall where I read it. Here's one source where it briefly talks about scar widening as one of the common complications of TCA Cross:

"Concerning the complications, persistent erythema was observed in 6 patients (42.85%). Of these, 4 patients (28.4%) were treated with phenol. Hyperpigmentation occurred in 4 patients (28.57%), 2 patients were using phenolic acid and the other two were using 90% TCA. Two individuals (14.3%) developed hypochromia, and the scars became wider in 2 patients. The 2 latter complications were only seen after the use of 90% TCA."

— Comparative Study of the Use of Trichloroacetic Acid and Phenolic Acid in the Treatment of Atrophic-Type Acne Scars (Dermatologic Surgery, 2016 Mar; 42(3):377-83.)

 

Edited by Sirius Lee
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50 minutes ago, Sirius Lee said:

 

Fellas, I've already replied to that very same question above. 

  

 

Lol u serious ? 

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1 hour ago, Miro said:

Lol u serious ? 

What's so funny? There are many published studies that corroborated that TCA 90% and above widened scars. I can't remember them all, and my time is better spent doing more productive things than digging around for articles that you probably have no interest in reading anyway. I realized how futile that was when I uploaded a few articles in the past at somebody's request.

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14 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

What's so funny? There are many published studies that corroborated that TCA 90% and above widened scars. I can't remember them all, and my time is better spent doing more productive things than digging around for articles that you probably have no interest in reading anyway. I realized how futile that was when I uploaded a few articles in the past at somebody's request.

So there was a study , they compared results of two groups of people : 1 group underwent 88% Phenol Cross for Icepicks, 2 group 90% TCA Cross for Icepicks.

Group with TCA had incidents with widening scar, which is famous complication of TCA cross, Phenol group had none incidents of widening.

And your conclusion is that only TCA 90% and higher will widen scars ? May i laugh into your face ? What the hell are u talking about ? That was not a study that compared results of different percentages of TCA like 70 vs 80 , or 90 and above vs bellow 90% of TCA, theres no such study on internet .  TCA Cross from 70-100 % can have incidents . So stop pulling all those claims out of your ass. 

 

"TCA cross especially at higher concentrations of 70-100% when used to treat ice-pick scars can possibly lead to slight "widening" of the scars." 

This is common fact, and no.  widening after TCA CROSS is not good thing, its not wanted effect, and its not purpose of that treatment, widening of scar is complication, and negative effect that u dont want.

People should watch this video Dr Rullan is considered Top dr when it comes to chemicals, he started to use Phenol Cross cause of this complication that TCA cross  can have, check from start to 1:50 and especially around 0:40 :

 

Also stop advicing people destroying their faces with high strenght  TCA peels at home u. I dont understand why moderators dont do something about this. After Obi wan left acneorg, this forum is mess, only thing that interest me here is that "Scarless healing" cause i wonder if microcroing or Elastagen will bring something new to the table.

U write all over the forum u use high perc of TCA peel at home, i never sawa  single pic from you, for all i know u can be some pig farmer from Equador that is destroying his face at home and spreding nonsense all around internet. 

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