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wombatstaywoke

Anyone with Asian Skin get a Phenol or "Exoderm" Peel?

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3 hours ago, wombatstaywoke said:

It can improve severe scars but it should be used after multiple manual procedures have been done. If you look up f93d on this forum you'll see from his journey the results he had were phenomenal. He said in his final review post 7 months that the scars were almost gone but that much of the collagen formation was probably from past procedures. 

I have been told it can improve severe scarring too but my question is HOW exactly? With subcision we know - it cuts through tethers and stimulates collagen. TCA/Phenol cross fill the pits after a series of treatments. Lasers ablate and also stimulate collagen to even the skin out. How does the deep peel improve the scars? 

Yes, f93d was pleased with the deep phenol peel but as you said yourself he had done so many manual treatments and Infini and fillers before that so it's difficult to know what attributed mostly to his improvement, or at least you cannot give him as an example of improvement from the peel. Still great improvement overall though.

If the deep peel improves the scarring by improving texture and tone as a final polish and by sorting any hyperpigmentation from other treatments out, then for me personally it would not be an option because there are other less intense procedures you can have for these issues.

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14 minutes ago, Marumi said:

I have been told it can improve severe scarring too but my question is HOW exactly? With subcision we know - it cuts through tethers and stimulates collagen. TCA/Phenol cross fill the pits after a series of treatments. Lasers ablate and also stimulate collagen to even the skin out. How does the deep peel improve the scars? 

Yes, f93d was pleased with the deep phenol peel but as you said yourself he had done so many manual treatments and Infini and fillers before that so it's difficult to know what attributed mostly to his improvement, or at least you cannot give him as an example of improvement from the peel. Still great improvement overall though.

If the deep peel improves the scarring by improving texture and tone as a final polish and by sorting any hyperpigmentation from other treatments out, then for me personally it would not be an option because there are other less intense procedures you can have for these issues.

You have a fair point. I think phenol is a 100% win in improving all aspects of skin "imperfections" from large pores to acne scars of all kinds. That being said, if all the treatments on this forum aimed at improving acne scars - RF devices, subcision, TCA/Phenol, whatever new device some biopharmaceutical company is pushing - actually worked, then there would be no discussion. 

But sadly that's not the case. We feel we're wasting money or are just a hamster for the next acne scar sufferer to leave a negative review. Less than 70% of people said Infini RF worked while almost 100% (it seems) said TCA made their scars worse. The list of complaints and praises carries on endlessly here. 

Although it's a small sample size because it is such an expensive procedure, 100% of phenol peels done by Rullan mentioned here have been met with positive reviews. I think it's only about 4 that have documented here. If you think that phenol won't do anything remarkable for the price than it would be best to stay away from it and at the very least experiment with the tried and somewhat true methods mentioned here ad nauseam. At least there's gradual progression with every treatment.

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4 hours ago, wombatstaywoke said:

You have a fair point. I think phenol is a 100% win in improving all aspects of skin "imperfections" from large pores to acne scars of all kinds. That being said, if all the treatments on this forum aimed at improving acne scars - RF devices, subcision, TCA/Phenol, whatever new device some biopharmaceutical company is pushing - actually worked, then there would be no discussion. 

But sadly that's not the case. We feel we're wasting money or are just a hamster for the next acne scar sufferer to leave a negative review. Less than 70% of people said Infini RF worked while almost 100% (it seems) said TCA made their scars worse. The list of complaints and praises carries on endlessly here. 

Although it's a small sample size because it is such an expensive procedure, 100% of phenol peels done by Rullan mentioned here have been met with positive reviews. I think it's only about 4 that have documented here. If you think that phenol won't do anything remarkable for the price than it would be best to stay away from it and at the very least experiment with the tried and somewhat true methods mentioned here ad nauseam. At least there's gradual progression with every treatment.

I'm interested in the deep phenol peel but as it is such an intense and expensive procedure I'd like to have a more clear idea what I can expect in terms of improvement. At best I'd like to see quality before/ after photos. Of the four people leaving a positive review one is f93d who has had multiple treatments and his improvement can't be attributed solely to the peel. A user who posted very detailed review of the procedure and months after was satisfied but never posted the promised after photos to see for ourselves. A user who says the peel improved skin texture, tone and sorted hyperpigmentation out and it's not clear what it did for the actual severe scars the peel is supposed to treat. Also I still cannot see the before photo just the after. Everybody decides for themselves if these are well documented convincing results that the deep peel works for severe scars. I am not doubting that these 4 people got results and seem happy with the procedure but I also know how subjective results can be: for one there are huge results, while another would say minimal improvement and vice versa so photos are the best way to assess improvement objectively. 

 

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8 hours ago, Marumi said:

I'm interested in the deep phenol peel but as it is such an intense and expensive procedure I'd like to have a more clear idea what I can expect in terms of improvement. At best I'd like to see quality before/ after photos. Of the four people leaving a positive review one is f93d who has had multiple treatments and his improvement can't be attributed solely to the peel. A user who posted very detailed review of the procedure and months after was satisfied but never posted the promised after photos to see for ourselves. A user who says the peel improved skin texture, tone and sorted hyperpigmentation out and it's not clear what it did for the actual severe scars the peel is supposed to treat. Also I still cannot see the before photo just the after. Everybody decides for themselves if these are well documented convincing results that the deep peel works for severe scars. I am not doubting that these 4 people got results and seem happy with the procedure but I also know how subjective results can be: for one there are huge results, while another would say minimal improvement and vice versa so photos are the best way to assess improvement objectively. 

 

From the several places I've visited offering the phenol peel in Canada and Europe, there seemed to be overall skin improvement for both wrinkles and scars. Considering the phenol is the last stop when it comes to chemical peels, the peel will almost guarantee improvement in most skin conditions. If you're white, you really only run the risk of hyperpigmentation which can improve over time. But even with that, you're advised on a strong precautious regiment that includes sun avoidance and prescription strength hydroquinone. 

This is just my personal opinion, but I feel that while we should do our due diligence and research the best treatments for our scars/skin conditions, I also think you shouldn't think too much about if so-and-so treatment will provide x amount of results with z amount of side effects. If you spend more time thinking about what could go wrong with all the treatments, then you'll just be stuck at where you're at with your skin. Best to at least try a treatment that worked for someone that's in your price range and comfort level than to spend weeks thinking the percentage of improvement.

Rullan is not the only guy who does these, although his is preferred among scar sufferers. Look up phenol peel studies done of different strengths, on non-European ethnic groups, and to treat different issues (freckles, wrinkles, sun damage, scars) and you'll see that almost all of them have a positive effect. 

Here's a study done on Freckles on Asians, for one instance NOT done by Rullan by seemingly using a similar formula.

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2 hours ago, wombatstaywoke said:

From the several places I've visited offering the phenol peel in Canada and Europe, there seemed to be overall skin improvement for both wrinkles and scars. Considering the phenol is the last stop when it comes to chemical peels, the peel will almost guarantee improvement in most skin conditions. If you're white, you really only run the risk of hyperpigmentation which can improve over time. But even with that, you're advised on a strong precautious regiment that includes sun avoidance and prescription strength hydroquinone. 

This is just my personal opinion, but I feel that while we should do our due diligence and research the best treatments for our scars/skin conditions, I also think you shouldn't think too much about if so-and-so treatment will provide x amount of results with z amount of side effects. If you spend more time thinking about what could go wrong with all the treatments, then you'll just be stuck at where you're at with your skin. Best to at least try a treatment that worked for someone that's in your price range and comfort level than to spend weeks thinking the percentage of improvement.

Rullan is not the only guy who does these, although his is preferred among scar sufferers. Look up phenol peel studies done of different strengths, on non-European ethnic groups, and to treat different issues (freckles, wrinkles, sun damage, scars) and you'll see that almost all of them have a positive effect. 

Here's a study done on Freckles on Asians, for one instance NOT done by Rullan by seemingly using a similar formula.

Thank you for your imput. I suppose if someone is interested in the deep phenol peel, it would be best to book a consult with a specialist in the field who can answer all the questions and (hopefully) provide quality before/ after photos or similar patients one can talk to who've had the same treatment. I, for my part, know that I am not doing such an invasive and expensive procedure on a vague promise of overall improvement.

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5 hours ago, Marumi said:

Thank you for your imput. I suppose if someone is interested in the deep phenol peel, it would be best to book a consult with a specialist in the field who can answer all the questions and (hopefully) provide quality before/ after photos or similar patients one can talk to who've had the same treatment. I, for my part, know that I am not doing such an invasive and expensive procedure on a vague promise of overall improvement.

Have you seen the study that he's done on patients? It's very extensive. Also, if you go on his site he has more photos of the scarring. A shame that we're all Hollywood directors more or less when it comes to camera and lighting tricks haha

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19 hours ago, Marumi said:

I'm interested in the deep phenol peel but as it is such an intense and expensive procedure I'd like to have a more clear idea what I can expect in terms of improvement. At best I'd like to see quality before/ after photos. Of the four people leaving a positive review one is f93d who has had multiple treatments and his improvement can't be attributed solely to the peel. A user who posted very detailed review of the procedure and months after was satisfied but never posted the promised after photos to see for ourselves. A user who says the peel improved skin texture, tone and sorted hyperpigmentation out and it's not clear what it did for the actual severe scars the peel is supposed to treat. Also I still cannot see the before photo just the after. Everybody decides for themselves if these are well documented convincing results that the deep peel works for severe scars. I am not doubting that these 4 people got results and seem happy with the procedure but I also know how subjective results can be: for one there are huge results, while another would say minimal improvement and vice versa so photos are the best way to assess improvement objectively. 

 

Phenol peel is not a one stop shop for acne scars and similar to F93d, I first had 5 manual sessions (subcision, phenol cross and microneedling) with Dr. Rullan to treat boxcar and ice picked scars.  The phenol peel is one of the last treatments I got after the scars are raised.  You said it perfectly in one of your previous comments, “the deep peel improves texture and tone as a final polish and by sorting any hyperpigmentation from other treatments...”.  Obviously, there are other treatments that can help with texture improvement.  But phenol peel is the route I took and I am extremely happy with improvement resulting from the peel.  Definitely do your own research and request before/after pictures from the doctor you are consulting with.  If you are thinking about consulting with Dr. Rullan, I know that he will send you before and after results via email. 

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10 hours ago, wombatstaywoke said:

Have you seen the study that he's done on patients? It's very extensive. Also, if you go on his site he has more photos of the scarring. A shame that we're all Hollywood directors more or less when it comes to camera and lighting tricks haha

Yeah I've read it. If I ever decide to go for the deep peel it will be only with Dr Rullan for sure. I hope he can show more before / after photos at a consultation or at least give me the contact of patients whose results I can see. 

The photos yes. Many play with light and angles in the after photos, or take the afters while there's still microswelling in the skin :/

8 hours ago, Phoooo said:

Phenol peel is not a one stop shop for acne scars and similar to F93d, I first had 5 manual sessions (subcision, phenol cross and microneedling) with Dr. Rullan to treat boxcar and ice picked scars.  The phenol peel is one of the last treatments I got after the scars are raised.  You said it perfectly in one of your previous comments, “the deep peel improves texture and tone as a final polish and by sorting any hyperpigmentation from other treatments...”.  Obviously, there are other treatments that can help with texture improvement.  But phenol peel is the route I took and I am extremely happy with improvement resulting from the peel.  Definitely do your own research and request before/after pictures from the doctor you are consulting with.  If you are thinking about consulting with Dr. Rullan, I know that he will send you before and after results via email. 

I will probably book a consultation with Dr Rullan anyway because I cannot find a better scar specialist who offers co2 and erbium ablative lasers and the phenol peel. I am more interested in the lasers to be honest for resurfacing and some stubborn deep box cars. I am Fitzpatrick II and have no risk factors for lasers (at least no that I know of), so fractional ablative lasers would be the 1st choice for me as they vaporize the skin (in fractional columns) and stimulate the most collagen of all energy-based treatments.

I'm planning on booking a consult with Dr Rullan and with Dr Mathew Avram, who specializes in lasers but doesn't seem to treat many scar patients on a regular basis. And I'll see what I'll do from there. 

Thanks for your thoughts and experience too. Even though I think the deep peel is too invasive just for a final polish I understand why you went for it with Dr Rullan who knows what he's doing and can perform it safely. And I'm glad you got the results you wanted. 

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2 hours ago, Marumi said:

Yeah I've read it. If I ever decide to go for the deep peel it will be only with Dr Rullan for sure. I hope he can show more before / after photos at a consultation or at least give me the contact of patients whose results I can see. 

The photos yes. Many play with light and angles in the after photos, or take the afters while there's still microswelling in the skin :/

I will probably book a consultation with Dr Rullan anyway because I cannot find a better scar specialist who offers co2 and erbium ablative lasers and the phenol peel. I am more interested in the lasers to be honest for resurfacing and some stubborn deep box cars. I am Fitzpatrick II and have no risk factors for lasers (at least no that I know of), so fractional ablative lasers would be the 1st choice for me as they vaporize the skin (in fractional columns) and stimulate the most collagen of all energy-based treatments.

I'm planning on booking a consult with Dr Rullan and with Dr Mathew Avram, who specializes in lasers but doesn't seem to treat many scar patients on a regular basis. And I'll see what I'll do from there. 

Thanks for your thoughts and experience too. Even though I think the deep peel is too invasive just for a final polish I understand why you went for it with Dr Rullan who knows what he's doing and can perform it safely. And I'm glad you got the results you wanted. 

For those of us in the US or even in California, we are blessed, to an extent, to be near Rullan. He is still very expensive though but I'm sure the results are well worth it. 

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51 minutes ago, wombatstaywoke said:

For those of us in the US or even in California, we are blessed, to an extent, to be near Rullan. He is still very expensive though but I'm sure the results are well worth it. 

Oh you are so blessed! And he is expensive but I've decided that I'd rather pay a bit more and see a specialist who will help me and perform the treatment safely than somebody who doesn't know what they are doing and can mess up my face. Ablative lasers and the deep phenol peel are not a walk in the park.

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8 hours ago, Marumi said:

Oh you are so blessed! And he is expensive but I've decided that I'd rather pay a bit more and see a specialist who will help me and perform the treatment safely than somebody who doesn't know what they are doing and can mess up my face. Ablative lasers and the deep phenol peel are not a walk in the park.

What treatment will you be getting then?

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On 3/16/2021 at 10:18 PM, wombatstaywoke said:

What treatment will you be getting then?

Ideally I'd like to get fractionally ablative laser as it also stimulates collagen, but if Rullan says the deep peel would be better for me, I might get the peel. 

 

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2 hours ago, Marumi said:

Ideally I'd like to get fractionally ablative laser as it also stimulates collagen, but if Rullan says the deep peel would be better for me, I might get the peel. 

 

When I first started scar revision research, ablative fractional lasers were all I saw and it seemed like the only treatment. Now that there's so much information and research, I feel that fractional are just intro treatments that aren't really that much of a help. It doesn't seem to have done much for anyone, at least for icepicks and rolling scars. 

Please do let us know if you get the peel. I feel the acne scar community really needs more unfiltered and unedited scar journey photos of people who are going through this one in a life time treatment. For lack of a better term. 

Have you gotten a consultation with Rullan? I'm thinking about getting a consultation with him as I'm currently based on the other side of the US. Not sure how the pandemic plays a role in how he will give consultations to other people. 

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6 hours ago, wombatstaywoke said:

When I first started scar revision research, ablative fractional lasers were all I saw and it seemed like the only treatment. Now that there's so much information and research, I feel that fractional are just intro treatments that aren't really that much of a help. It doesn't seem to have done much for anyone, at least for icepicks and rolling scars. 

Please do let us know if you get the peel. I feel the acne scar community really needs more unfiltered and unedited scar journey photos of people who are going through this one in a life time treatment. For lack of a better term. 

Have you gotten a consultation with Rullan? I'm thinking about getting a consultation with him as I'm currently based on the other side of the US. Not sure how the pandemic plays a role in how he will give consultations to other people. 

I most surely will. I have my doubts that he will recommend the peel though to be honest. True, my texture could use some improvement, I feel it's really bad, but I'm not sure if my deep box car scars would justify getting the peel. It's just that I do not know who I can turn to to get laser safely so that I might end up getting the peel with Rullan if results are comparable. I am not sure if rf microneedling could yield as good a result as lasers or the deep peel.  

I agree with you. Lasers don't seem to be miracle devices but based on the medical literature they are supposed to be the best choice if you have fair skin in combination with subcision and tca/phenol cross. Lasers on their own at low settings probably won't do much for scars, a combination is needed. I have heard that Dr Rullan takes pride in his work and wants to achieve best possible results for everybody and always performs cannula subcision prior to lasers and the deep phenol peel for wrinkles and for scars.

Besides, another important thing are the own healing abilities. Scars are in the end a substance defect and no matter how powerful the laser is or how often you ablate and stimulate collagen, if your skin cannot produce the collagen and the elastin to fill in the dents, you will probably not have satisfactory results from lasers. But in my opinion it's worth giving lasers a try with an experienced doctor if you haven't done any energy-based treatments. 

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On 3/17/2021 at 8:36 PM, wombatstaywoke said:

When I first started scar revision research, ablative fractional lasers were all I saw and it seemed like the only treatment. Now that there's so much information and research, I feel that fractional are just intro treatments that aren't really that much of a help. It doesn't seem to have done much for anyone, at least for icepicks and rolling scars. 

Please do let us know if you get the peel. I feel the acne scar community really needs more unfiltered and unedited scar journey photos of people who are going through this one in a life time treatment. For lack of a better term. 

Have you gotten a consultation with Rullan? I'm thinking about getting a consultation with him as I'm currently based on the other side of the US. Not sure how the pandemic plays a role in how he will give consultations to other people. 

Perhaps I am in the minority in this forum but I find lasers to be effective at the moment. I think procedures that force the skin to recover is important for scar revision even if it may take years. I would not completely disregard lasers but this is solely my opinion. 

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40 minutes ago, Dontgiveupitsonlyscars said:

Perhaps I am in the minority in this forum but I find lasers to be effective at the moment. I think procedures that force the skin to recover is important for scar revision even if it may take years. I would not completely disregard lasers but this is solely my opinion. 

I think lasers should definitely be part of the treatment plan even at an early stage as long as the skin type allows it. Of all resurfacing devices they have the biggest potential of stimulating collagen, eventually in combination with subcision in case scar tethering is an issue, or a crossing treatment to address deeper ice-picks. 

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On 3/18/2021 at 11:05 AM, Marumi said:

Ideally I'd like to get fractionally ablative laser as it also stimulates collagen, but if Rullan says the deep peel would be better for me, I might get the peel. 

 

When are you planning on having this done? It seems a lot of us here are very interested in the phenol peel, I think there will be more detailed posts of it to come. 
 

When I go in for my peel I plan on documenting the entire process. 

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On 3/17/2021 at 5:36 PM, wombatstaywoke said:

When I first started scar revision research, ablative fractional lasers were all I saw and it seemed like the only treatment. Now that there's so much information and research, I feel that fractional are just intro treatments that aren't really that much of a help. It doesn't seem to have done much for anyone, at least for icepicks and rolling scars. 

Please do let us know if you get the peel. I feel the acne scar community really needs more unfiltered and unedited scar journey photos of people who are going through this one in a life time treatment. For lack of a better term. 

Have you gotten a consultation with Rullan? I'm thinking about getting a consultation with him as I'm currently based on the other side of the US. Not sure how the pandemic plays a role in how he will give consultations to other people. 

 

You can actually just send photos and consult over emails instead of in person.

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On 3/22/2021 at 2:43 AM, shei514 said:

When are you planning on having this done? It seems a lot of us here are very interested in the phenol peel, I think there will be more detailed posts of it to come. 
 

When I go in for my peel I plan on documenting the entire process. 

For the time being I'm just planning on getting online consultations and getting advised what would be best for my scars. I'm considering fractional ablative lasers and the deep phenol peel. 

Dr Rullan has published a very good detailed study on his deep peel treatment. Have you read it, or have you already talked to him about the peel? 

Also interesting read I found on lasers:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMr198pjC9E/?igshid=x4jpprwjb0f5

 

Lasers can be performed on all skin type (the key is low density) as long as it is by a true laser specialist who knows what they are doing.

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