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dezzyhoc

best doctors for subcision HELP!

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I suffer from pretty severe acne scars rolling scars mostly. Ive had fractional laser done 3 times in the past and really noticed no improvements. I'm desperate for some change so im asking if you guys who are knowledgeable to please recommend the best doctors for subcision and share your experiences if you have them please.

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1 hour ago, dezzyhoc said:

I suffer from pretty severe acne scars rolling scars mostly. Ive had fractional laser done 3 times in the past and really noticed no improvements. I'm desperate for some change so im asking if you guys who are knowledgeable to please recommend the best doctors for subcision and share your experiences if you have them please.

Not that I don't believe you, but how you define your own scars can get pretty dicey at times around here. What one considers as severe is shallow in the eyes of other. It would be in your best interest to share a photo of your scars. Also tell us where you're located so we can refer you to someone close to you. With most countries now mandating 2 week mandatory quarantine, you probably don't want to travel out of the country for treatment. 

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1 hour ago, Sirius Lee said:

Not that I don't believe you, but how you define your own scars can get pretty dicey at times around here. What one considers as severe is shallow in the eyes of other. It would be in your best interest to share a photo of your scars. Also tell us where you're located so we can refer you to someone close to you. With most countries now mandating 2 week mandatory quarantine, you probably don't want to travel out of the country for treatment. 

i live in seattle i dont mind travelling i would like to see the best of the best as to not see a dr who doesn't have much experience because they're close and they end up making my scars look worse.

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9 minutes ago, dezzyhoc said:

i live in seattle i dont mind travelling i would like to see the best of the best as to not see a dr who doesn't have much experience because they're close and they end up making my scars look worse.

One of the most well-known doctors on the West Coast is Dr. Rullan in San Diego. He usually offers a package deal, which includes subcision. He has many satisfied patients, many of which you can find here in fact. But the treatment comes with a hefty price tag, so beware. I say this because you most likely will need multiple treatments. One treatment is rarely enough to notice big improvement.

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2 minutes ago, Sirius Lee said:

One of the most well-known doctors on the West Coast is Dr. Rullan in San Diego. He usually offers a package deal, which includes subcision. He has many satisfied patients, many of which you can find here in fact. But the treatment comes with a hefty price tag, so beware. I say this because you most likely will need multiple treatments. One treatment is rarely enough to notice big improvement.

ive heard of him before and search him up on real self but its pretty much all word of mouth. i havent seen too many real reviews from him or before an afters for someone who's so recommended. if that makes sense.

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On 10/29/2020 at 11:15 PM, Sirius Lee said:

Not that I don't believe you, but how you define your own scars can get pretty dicey at times around here. What one considers as severe is shallow in the eyes of other. It would be in your best interest to share a photo of your scars. Also tell us where you're located so we can refer you to someone close to you. With most countries now mandating 2 week mandatory quarantine, you probably don't want to travel out of the country for treatment. 

What is the typical cost of a subcision session with Dr Rullan (moderate-severe scarring)

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On 10/30/2020 at 6:53 AM, dezzyhoc said:

ive heard of him before and search him up on real self but its pretty much all word of mouth. i havent seen too many real reviews from him or before an afters for someone who's so recommended. if that makes sense.

I have the same concern as you - there aren't many reviews or b/a photos even for the most recommended doctors here. But we've got to start somewhere and I think Dr Rullan or Dr Emil in Europe are our best bet as so many people here have had good experience with them even though not the dramatic results that they had hoped for. For Rullan you can also check his Google reviews. There are really lots of them, it seems like the people actually had treatments with him and aren't just giving 5 stars asking for advice like with other doctors and they seem to speak of Rullan in the highest esteem and also very warmly so I'd definitely to go to see him if I lived in the USA. The only drawback are his high prices. Either money shouldn't be an issue for you or you would have to save well in advance to be able to afford those prices for multiple treatments. But if u want the best of the best, I personally think Rullan is your guy. 

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7 hours ago, gyuillie said:

What is the typical cost of a subcision session with Dr Rullan (moderate-severe scarring)

Let me preface by saying I've never been a patient of Dr Rullan. From what I've read, he charges nearly $1000 per subcision and it appears that he's been raising prices across the board recently. His trio package (subcision, phenol, microneedling), for instance, comes with a hefty price tag of nearly $10,000. Some people say it's worth the money, some people don't. If you've been reading my posts, you know where I clearly stand on this issue.

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1 hour ago, Sirius Lee said:

Let me preface by saying I've never been a patient of Dr Rullan. From what I've read, he charges nearly $1000 per subcision and it appears that he's been raising prices across the board recently. His trio package (subcision, phenol, microneedling), for instance, comes with a hefty price tag of nearly $10,000. Some people say it's worth the money, some people don't. If you've been reading my posts, you know where I clearly stand on this issue.

Isnt His trio 1700 ?

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38 minutes ago, Miro said:

Isnt His trio 1700 ?

I remember reading here that he or she paid over $8000 for his 2-day phenolbrasion (which I believe is part of the trio package). Sorry if I got it wrong, but considering that no scar can be completely healed with just one treatment, I thought paying that much is simply ludicrous. No matter how good the treatment is or how qualified the doctor is, don't ever believe you'll be done with just one treatment.

10 minutes ago, anon09299 said:

Subcision alone is 1250. 

Okay, I stand corrected. But, again, WTF??

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20 minutes ago, anon09299 said:

It's 1750.  Subcision alone is 1250. 

Jesus Thats expensive as hell , he got famous here and raised prices .

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5 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

I remember reading here that he or she paid over $8000 for his 2-day phenolbrasion (which I believe is part of the trio package). Sorry if I got it wrong, but considering that no scar can be completely healed with just one treatment, I thought paying that much is simply ludicrous. No matter how good the treatment is or how qualified the doctor is, don't ever believe you'll be done with just one treatment.

Okay, I stand corrected. But, again, WTF??

The phenol peel I have heard 6000-8000 however his trio was always considered subcision, phenol cross and microneedling or fractional erbium.  It definitely increased over the last few years however I haven't really seen anything that much cheaper on the west coast.  All subcision treatments seem to be at least 1000.  I have seen some places charging 750 nowadays for microneedling without rf which I think is ridiculous.  

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6 hours ago, Miro said:

Jesus Thats expensive as hell , he got famous here and raised prices .

 

57 minutes ago, anon09299 said:

The phenol peel I have heard 6000-8000 however his trio was always considered subcision, phenol cross and microneedling or fractional erbium.  It definitely increased over the last few years however I haven't really seen anything that much cheaper on the west coast.  All subcision treatments seem to be at least 1000.  I have seen some places charging 750 nowadays for microneedling without rf which I think is ridiculous.  

If I knew I would get at least 51% improvement, I would bite the bullet and spend that much. Unfortunately, none of these doctors, including Rullan, can promise anything. On the contrary, most overpromise and underdeliver. My biggest gripe is that posters who come here praising Rullan just one week out from their treatment with swelling still present, they don't bother to come back after 6 months to update their progress. And yet people believe their BS.

Realistically speaking, most people with medium to severe scars require at least 3 treatments. I'm pretty certain a lot of these people do not have the means to pay $1000 per subcision. I really think the whole system is effed up. My advice: boycott the effers. 

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2 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

 

If I knew I would get at least 51% improvement, I would bite the bullet and spend that much. Unfortunately, none of these doctors, including Rullan, can promise anything. On the contrary, most overpromise and underdeliver. My biggest gripe is that posters who come here praising Rullan just one week out from their treatment with swelling still present, they don't bother to come back after 6 months to update their progress. And yet people believe their BS.

Realistically speaking, most people with medium to severe scars require at least 3 treatments. I'm pretty certain a lot of these people do not have the means to pay $1000 per subcision. I really think the whole system is effed up. My advice: boycott the effers. 

You are right. Nobody should assess improvement the first 4-5 weeks after treatments as the skin hasn't "settled" yet. What I see though with the people who go to Rullan or Emil is that they keep going back for a 2nd, a 3rd treatment so they must see results, right? Why else do they go back?

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10 hours ago, BlueMaloney said:

You are right. Nobody should assess improvement the first 4-5 weeks after treatments as the skin hasn't "settled" yet. What I see though with the people who go to Rullan or Emil is that they keep going back for a 2nd, a 3rd treatment so they must see results, right? Why else do they go back?

At least 3-5 treatments are considered needed to see visual improvement.  Rullan does mention this during consultation. 

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12 hours ago, BlueMaloney said:

You are right. Nobody should assess improvement the first 4-5 weeks after treatments as the skin hasn't "settled" yet. What I see though with the people who go to Rullan or Emil is that they keep going back for a 2nd, a 3rd treatment so they must see results, right? Why else do they go back?

Not necessarily. As I already mentioned above (as well as countless times in other threads), it's unrealistic to expect a big improvement after just one treatment. Unless the doctor is really underqualified, you will likely see some degree of progress with more treatments. I would think most of the patients who see Rullan or Emil are smart people who have done their research online and know of this as well. 

But let's not forget these same people who come here and rave about Rullan or Emil after their first treatment DO NOT come back to inform us after their second or third treatment. Why would that be? If they saw huge results, why would they not come back to brag about it? My humble guess is that they didn't see much improvement as they would have liked. Obviously swelling played a huge part in their initial assessment of their scars. But once the swelling came down and the reality sank in, they saw no need to share their progress with the public.

 

2 hours ago, anon09299 said:

At least 3-5 treatments are considered needed to see visual improvement.  Rullan does mention this during consultation. 

3-5 treatments of what? Just subcisions? I doubt it. It would be more like his cocktail treatments. So who can afford 3-5 treatments of those? Who can afford that? BTW Rullan tells you how many treatment you will need, but does he ever tell you how much improvements you will see? 

I'm not here to disparage Rullan or any other doctors. No, a good doctor is absolutely a must. Nor am I here to discourage anyone to get more than one treatment. Actually, I absolutely insist that you get more treatment to see any meaningful improvement. The point that I want to drive home, on the other hand, is some doctors are unscrupulous and prey on desperation. I doubt many people here are rich that they can fly anywhere and openly splurge themselves on any treatment they please. Yes, there are those who save for literally years (!!!) to get the much needed treatment, hoping that is enough to relieve them from all the suffering they've endured for years. To those, I applaud your noble efforts. But deep down I know that they're being misinformed and ripped off by these doctors who know their treatment is not going to be of much help. Well, the meager improvement is nowhere near the large sum paid. On that note, I think it's high time this board reconsider who to endorse or not.

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8 minutes ago, Sirius Lee said:

Not necessarily. As I already mentioned above (as well as countless times in other threads), it's unrealistic to expect a big improvement after just one treatment. Unless the doctor is really underqualified, you will likely see some degree of progress with more treatments. I would think most of the patients who see Rullan or Emil are smart people who have done their research online and know of this as well. 

But let's not forget these same people who come here and rave about Rullan or Emil after their first treatment DO NOT come back to inform us after their second or third treatment. Why would that be? If they saw huge results, why would they not come back to brag about it? My humble guess is that they didn't see much improvement as they would have liked. Obviously swelling played a huge part in their initial assessment of their scars. But once the swelling came down and the reality sank in, they saw no need to share their progress with the public.

 

3-5 treatments of what? Just subcisions? I doubt it. It would be more like his cocktail treatments. So who can afford 3-5 treatments of those? Who can afford that? BTW Rullan tells you how many treatment you will need, but does he ever tell you how much improvements you will see? 

I'm not here to disparage Rullan or any other doctors. No, a good doctor is absolutely a must. Nor am I here to discourage anyone to get more than one treatment. Actually, I absolutely insist that you get more treatment to see any meaningful improvement. The point that I want to drive home, on the other hand, is some doctors are unscrupulous and prey on desperation. I doubt many people here are rich that they can fly anywhere and openly splurge themselves on any treatment they please. Yes, there are those who save for literally years (!!!) to get the much needed treatment, hoping that is enough to relieve them from all the suffering they've endured for years. To those, I applaud your noble efforts. But deep down I know that they're being misinformed and ripped off by these doctors who know their treatment is not going to be of much help. Well, the meager improvement is nowhere near the large sum paid. On that note, I think it's high time this board reconsider who to endorse or not.

I agree. From what I read here, most people here do get some improvement from different treatments but it's not that wow effect, dramatic results we all hope for. In that sense the tens of thousands of dollars or pounds we end up paying for treatments, travel costs etc are in absolutely no relation to the results. 

I hope that those having 3rd, 4th treatment just go on with their lives and don't come to report to us but maybe this is just wishful thinking.

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42 minutes ago, BlueMaloney said:

I agree. From what I read here, most people here do get some improvement from different treatments but it's not that wow effect, dramatic results we all hope for. In that sense the tens of thousands of dollars or pounds we end up paying for treatments, travel costs etc are in absolutely no relation to the results. 

I hope that those having 3rd, 4th treatment just go on with their lives and don't come to report to us but maybe this is just wishful thinking.

I have never ever saw no one afters befores that would blow my mind , never ,  not even here, as one doctor said acne scars usualy get 30-40 % improvement with many treatments , up to 50 % , which  is quite rare ,  f. e. I red somwhere on internet once one guy from USA  wrote he underwent more then 10 treatments - subc, lasers , TCA etc - with best drs and he saw maybe 20 % improvement , we have to Be realistic 

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15 minutes ago, Miro said:

I have never ever saw no one afters befores that would blow my mind , never ,  not even here, as one doctor said acne scars usualy get 30-40 % improvement with many treatments , up to 50 % , which  is quite rare ,  f. e. I red somwhere on internet once one guy from USA  wrote he underwent more then 10 treatments - subc, lasers , TCA etc - with best drs and he saw maybe 20 % improvement , we have to Be realistic 

While I respect your opinion, I know it's quite possible to get more than 50%. I, for one, have seen a huge improvement from TCA. But it takes time. Many treatments over many years. It's not a quick fix. Hence the need for ongoing treatments. The important question then is how much would that cost me? For most people, that's the deciding factor that either makes or breaks their resolve to start treatment. Unfortunately, many doctors value profit over patient care. They think acne scar treatment is just like a cosmetic makeover that they can easily exploit to make a quick buck.

Now, I think it's important to have realistic expectation. But, even more, know when you're getting ripped off. You can avoid this by empowering yourself with right knowledge. Never ever blindly go along with what you're told.

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There used to be a this link https://www.acne.org/forums/topic/361029-official-acne-scar-solutions-recommended-doctors-qa-faq-read-before-posting/ which had a lot of information about doctors in each of the state and treatment options. This would have definitely helped.

Do anyone know where to find the info or have it somewhere stored?

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On 11/4/2020 at 9:48 PM, Miro said:

I have never ever saw no one afters befores that would blow my mind , never ,  not even here, as one doctor said acne scars usualy get 30-40 % improvement with many treatments , up to 50 % , which  is quite rare ,  f. e. I red somwhere on internet once one guy from USA  wrote he underwent more then 10 treatments - subc, lasers , TCA etc - with best drs and he saw maybe 20 % improvement , we have to Be realistic 

Exactly. You get 30-40% improvement, 50% if you're lucky. You get multiple treatments, use your time off work not for holidays but for downtime after treatments, risk complications and long term negative effects with lasers or fillers, in the end get to spend tens of thousands and you still have your scars, they are still there even though improved. It's so frustrating. Yet, I'd still choose to get treatment over doing nothing at all.

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Following this forum has become totally eye opening for me as I am no longer disillusioned that treatments give only mediocre results. It's also very depressing reading how people are exstatic about initial improvement as first, probably due to swelling, and then don't come back to report on further improvement. Following this forum daily only makes you fixate on a problem that cannot reall be solved . Besides people who comment here are not experts and offer only their personal opinion which may or may not be right. So I think it's a good idea to take a break from this site from time to time. Otherwise you will get psychology issues fixating only on your scars. 

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4 hours ago, BlueMaloney said:

Following this forum has become totally eye opening for me as I am no longer disillusioned that treatments give only mediocre results. It's also very depressing reading how people are exstatic about initial improvement as first, probably due to swelling, and then don't come back to report on further improvement. Following this forum daily only makes you fixate on a problem that cannot reall be solved . Besides people who comment here are not experts and offer only their personal opinion which may or may not be right. So I think it's a good idea to take a break from this site from time to time. Otherwise you will get psychology issues fixating only on your scars. 

Yes , exactly, John Goldenmouth spoken, many people say they love swelling, i hate it, swelling sucks, it hides real results and gives you false hope for weeks, sometimes even moths.

On 11/4/2020 at 10:24 PM, Sirius Lee said:

While I respect your opinion, I know it's quite possible to get more than 50%. I, for one, have seen a huge improvement from TCA. But it takes time. Many treatments over many years. It's not a quick fix. Hence the need for ongoing treatments. The important question then is how much would that cost me? For most people, that's the deciding factor that either makes or breaks their resolve to start treatment. Unfortunately, many doctors value profit over patient care. They think acne scar treatment is just like a cosmetic makeover that they can easily exploit to make a quick buck.

Now, I think it's important to have realistic expectation. But, even more, know when you're getting ripped off. You can avoid this by empowering yourself with right knowledge. Never ever blindly go along with what you're told.

With all the respect, this is not my opinion, i saw some posts by drs and few videos, they all say 30-40% up to 50% .

Also I never saw pics online same lighting same angle that i d say this is over 50% of course i m not talking about some superficial scars but medium to deep dents - holes . Of course if anyone has something like that bring it on. 6 months after last treatment same light same angle i will gladly change my opinion if theres proof.

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i have done quite a bit of research on acne scarring and improvements and a lot of you are mentioning subcisions and lasers etc but nothing about fillers. after doing my research and looking at a lot of before and afters id say fillers or fat transfers are what are going to have u seeing the most long lasting results. it acts like a buffer to stop retethering with the scar and will build collagen. ive heard dr davin lim is like the best of the best but hes in australia so idk how long it would take to get in to see him or what the cost would be fore hotel and air fare. does anyone have experience with him?

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