I don't think your scars are deep enough to warrant subcision. Remember sucision is suppose to "lift" the scar by severing the scar band attached to the floor. If the depression is mild to start with, you can't expect there to be much lift.

Granted, you can still benefit from other modalities like RF microneedling,TCA or laser. What you want to keep in mind is that scars are accentuated not from the depression but from the light hitting off the scar edges. Hence, you want to focus on minimizing or smoothing the scar walls.

14 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

I don't think your scars are deep enough to warrant subcision. Remember sucision is suppose to "lift" the scar by severing the scar band attached to the floor. If the depression is mild to start with, you can't expect there to be much lift.

Granted, you can still benefit from other modalities like RF microneedling,TCA or laser. What you want to keep in mind is that scars are accentuated not from the depression but from the light hitting off the scar edges. Hence, you want to focus on minimizing or smoothing the scar walls.

Oh thank you so much. Do you think I could significantly improve my scars by having a few lasers alterning with DIY TCA 25% peels?

Im tired of reading that laser is useless for scarring and that its only good for anti-agingissues. I know some doctors have misused lasers and hence the badreputation lasers have now.

Its difficult to find RF microneedling. The derma I know performs subcision, fillers, laser c02... I can combinethem with TCA or dermastamp.

2 hours ago, Toni94 said:

Oh thank you so much. Do you think I could significantly improve my scars by having a few lasers alterning with DIY TCA 25% peels?

 

Im tired of reading that laser is useless for scarring and that its only good for anti-agingissues. I know some doctors have misused lasers and hence the badreputation lasers have now.

Its difficult to find RF microneedling. The derma I know performs subcision, fillers, laser c02... I can combinethem with TCA or dermastamp.

I agree with Serius Lee. Your scars are not that deep. If you have patience, try TCA peels over a period of months and see if that will do anything. RF microneedling would be good if you have the money - it is not a cheap treatment. Fractional CO2 laser procedures can help if you are willing to take the risks. In your case, I think lasers would do a good job at smoothing out the shallow scars.

On 9/3/2020 at 6:10 PM, Amanda Hall said:

I agree with Serius Lee. Your scars are not that deep. If you have patience, try TCA peels over a period of months and see if that will do anything. RF microneedling would be good if you have the money - it is not a cheap treatment. Fractional CO2 laser procedures can help if you are willing to take the risks. In your case, I think lasers would do a good job at smoothing out the shallow scars.

Lets try with harsh lighting. Do you still feel they are shallow?

5 hours ago, Toni94 said:

Oh thank you so much. Do you think I could significantly improve my scars by having a few lasers alterning with DIY TCA 25% peels?

 

Im tired of reading that laser is useless for scarring and that its only good for anti-agingissues. I know some doctors have misused lasers and hence the badreputation lasers have now.

Its difficult to find RF microneedling. The derma I know performs subcision, fillers, laser c02... I can combinethem with TCA or dermastamp.

I suggest 3 to 4 treatments of LOW DENSITY fractional CO2 with 70% TCA. Good luck.

46 minutes ago, Sirius Lee said:

I suggest 3 to 4 treatments of LOW DENSITY fractional CO2 with 70% TCA. Good luck.

Will that yield significant results? I'm tired of reading that laser is a SCAM...It seems the trend now is subcision, fillers and TCA cross aka "manual" treatments. Doctors have used lasers to fill their pockets with no positive reviews and now lasers are demonized.

What % of improvement do you think is achievable? (I know this varies a lot from one individual to another).

24 minutes ago, Toni94 said:

What % of improvement do you think is achievable? (I know this varies a lot from one individual to another).

It's hard to say, since everyone reacts and heals differently. But I think it's safe to say at least 50% improvement. The important thing to note is that unless you get those scars treated, they won't miraculously heal on their own. Too much time is wasted on ruminating. Your youth won't last forever. Make the jump.

I dont know if lasers help but what I will say is that it looks like such a minor imperfection and 98% of the rest of your skin is flawless and with treatments comes the possibilty of negative outcomes so with that being said it would seem too risky for your minor imperfections in my opinion.

1 hour ago, sdps said:

I dont know if lasers help but what I will say is that it looks like such a minor imperfection and 98% of the rest of your skin is flawless and with treatments comes the possibilty of negative outcomes so with that being said it would seem too risky for your minor imperfections in my opinion.

98% of my skin flawless? I have acne scars on both my cheeks, temples and forehead. Ok, they are not the worst scars you can see, I agree, but I'm far from having a perfect skin.

1 hour ago, Sirius Lee said:

It's hard to say, since everyone reacts and heals differently. But I think it's safe to say at least 50% improvement. The important thing to note is that unless you get those scars treated, they won't miraculously heal on their own. Too much time is wasted on ruminating. Your youth won't last forever. Make the jump.

I know scars won't fade away on their own...but many acne sufferers say it makes no difference at all whether you treat scars or not...Scars are difficult to treat and many guys end up with same scarring and fewer $$

Hardly anyone has 0% improvement, and if so it's possibly because they didn't go for the right treatment for their case or had an adverse reaction. Even people without scarring can improve their overall skin appearance. Find a procedure that's worth it to you when you weighthe cost/risk/benefits. These scars are highly treatable and good suggestions have been made.

27 minutes ago, Kay24 said:

Hardly anyone has 0% improvement, and if so it's possibly because they didn't go for the right treatment for their case or had an adverse reaction. Even people without scarring can improve their overall skin appearance. Find a procedure that's worth it to you when you weighthe cost/risk/benefits. These scars are highly treatable and good suggestions have been made.

Thanks. Do u agree with Sirius Lee in that I should have TCA and laser instead of subcision/fillers?

On 9/3/2020 at 11:37 AM, Sirius Lee said:

I suggest 3 to 4 treatments of LOW DENSITY fractional CO2 with 70% TCA. Good luck.

I don't know anything about settings. Maybe others can provide information on joules, depth, pulse duration, number of passes, etc. The more knowledge for this gentleman, the better. I got laser treatment done several times and didn't bother asking for the settings.

On 9/3/2020 at 12:24 PM, Toni94 said:

Will that yield significant results? I'm tired of reading that laser is a SCAM...It seems the trend now is subcision, fillers and TCA cross aka "manual" treatments. Doctors have used lasers to fill their pockets with no positive reviews and now lasers are demonized.

What % of improvement do you think is achievable? (I know this varies a lot from one individual to another).

Lasers work. The scam is that doctors charge way too much in my opinion and that the success rate is overstated.

Based on my laser treatment and from what I've read online, the percentage of people who benefit from laser treatment is not high, but it's not as low as you think. I believe people with wrinkles and more texture issues benefit the most. Patients with scars risk additional scarring (I got new shallow scars from aggressive treatment). PIE/PIH is real and occurs more within ethic groups (I'm mixed and it takes me months for these to subside). Some doctors charge a thousand or two more than others. Seriously? F*** them.

That being said, I did see some of my shallow scars smooth out so I did benefit from the treatment. I may opt for maybe one or more procedure down the line but the recovery is really tough.

My doctor said each treatment yields 10-20% improvement. Maybe 10% is 25% to you. Everyone has his/her own scale.

On 9/3/2020 at 12:58 PM, sdps said:

I dont know if lasers help but what I will say is that it looks like such a minor imperfection and 98% of the rest of your skin is flawless and with treatments comes the possibilty of negative outcomes so with that being said it would seem too risky for your minor imperfections in my opinion.

Something minor to one person is not minor to another. I believe this is why we're looking for options on this forum. It's sad that we can't accept our current state - I know I can't.

1 hour ago, Kay24 said:

Hardly anyone has 0% improvement, and if so it's possibly because they didn't go for the right treatment for their case or had an adverse reaction. Even people without scarring can improve their overall skin appearance. Find a procedure that's worth it to you when you weighthe cost/risk/benefits. These scars are highly treatable and good suggestions have been made.

Scars are treatable. Yes. Nobody has 100% improvement but they can be improved. I'm pretty sure the majority of us would be thrilled to see even modest improvement.

2 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

I don't know anything about settings. Maybe others can provide information on joules, depth, pulse duration, number of passes, etc. The more knowledge for this gentleman, the better. I got laser treatment done several times and didn't bother asking for the settings.

 

Lasers work. The scam is that doctors charge way too much in my opinion and that the success rate is overstated.

Based on my laser treatment and from what I've read online, the percentage of people who benefit from laser treatment is not high, but it's not as low as you think. I believe people with wrinkles and more texture issues benefit the most. Patients with scars risk additional scarring (I got new shallow scars from aggressive treatment). PIE/PIH is real and occurs more within ethic groups (I'm mixed and it takes me months for these to subside). Some doctors charge a thousand or two more than others. Seriously? F*** them.

That being said, I did see some of my shallow scars smooth out so I did benefit from the treatment. I may opt for maybe one or more procedure down the line but the recovery is really tough.

My doctor said each treatment yields 10-20% improvement. Maybe 10% is 25% to you. Everyone has his/her own scale.

Something minor to one person is not minor to another. I believe this is why we're looking for options on this forum. It's sad that we can't accept our current state - I know I can't.

 

Scars are treatable. Yes. Nobody has 100% improvement but they can be improved. I'm pretty sure the majority of us would be thrilled to see even modest improvement.

So, I'd need several sessions and several TCA peels to see a decent improvement...no? Not to mention that I might end up with no results at all or even more scars??

7 hours ago, Toni94 said:

So, I'd need several sessions and several TCA peels to see a decent improvement...no? Not to mention that I might end up with no results at all or even more scars??

TCA peels provide the best results for scars when done multiple times. Improvement comes each time so the effect is cumulative. Sirius Lee says you have to have a certain percentage in order for it to work, and it's a high percentage. I did two 12.5% peels and didn't see improvement despite peeling a lot. I'm moving up to 15% or 20% but it's always safer to start off lower.

TCA peels provide extremely modest improvement in my opinion. I'm alternating this with Derminator microneedling so hopefully I can see some superficial textural improvement. TCA peels are recommended to you because it's an affordable way for you to start. I wouldn't guarantee improvement for you but there's not a lot to lose for $20-30.

Deeper scars need stronger treatments.

As for TCA CROSS or Peel, please do have a 2nd thought before goingfor it.
Search TCA Cross Gone Wrong in google , you will see lots of horrible stories.

I am not saying TCA CROSS doesnt work, but it highly depends on the dermatologist skill and how you react. Sometimes even though the derm is highly skilled, you will not see the expected outcome if you dont heal well.
This is the trade off that you have to think about. Some ppl in the forum, including me, has bad experience with TCA Cross in regards to scar widening and PIE/PIH.

7 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

TCA peels provide the best results for scars when done multiple times. Improvement comes each time so the effect is cumulative. Sirius Lee says you have to have a certain percentage in order for it to work, and it's a high percentage. I did two 12.5% peels and didn't see improvement despite peeling a lot. I'm moving up to 15% or 20% but it's always safer to start off lower.

TCA peels provide extremely modest improvement in my opinion. I'm alternating this with Derminator microneedling so hopefully I can see some superficial textural improvement. TCA peels are recommended to you because it's an affordable way for you to start. I wouldn't guarantee improvement for you but there's not a lot to lose for $20-30.

Deeper scars need stronger treatments.

It seems you are an experienced acne scar sufferer...may I ask you sth...What treatments have you undergone over the years? What type/severity of scarring did you have? have you had a significant improvement?

13 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

TCA peels provide the best results for scars when done multiple times. Improvement comes each time so the effect is cumulative. Sirius Lee says you have to have a certain percentage in order for it to work, and it's a high percentage. I did two 12.5% peels and didn't see improvement despite peeling a lot. I'm moving up to 15% or 20% but it's always safer to start off lower.

TCA peels provide extremely modest improvement in my opinion. I'm alternating this with Derminator microneedling so hopefully I can see some superficial textural improvement. TCA peels are recommended to you because it's an affordable way for you to start. I wouldn't guarantee improvement for you but there's not a lot to lose for $20-30.

Deeper scars need stronger treatments.

The reason for that is 12.5% is a weak concentration -- at least as far as TCA goes. It's not the ideal percentage for reaching the dermis.

10 hours ago, Jack817 said:

As for TCA CROSS or Peel, please do have a 2nd thought before goingfor it.
Search TCA Cross Gone Wrong in google , you will see lots of horrible stories.

I am not saying TCA CROSS doesnt work, but it highly depends on the dermatologist skill and how you react. Sometimes even though the derm is highly skilled, you will not see the expected outcome if you dont heal well.
This is the trade off that you have to think about. Some ppl in the forum, including me, has bad experience with TCA Cross in regards to scar widening and PIE/PIH.

We'll have to disagree here. When done by a properly trained dermatologist, TCA cross is quite possibly the best procedure for ice pick scars. Complications are possible, but they're rare when a board certified dermatologist is performing the procedure. Most of the TCA cross horror stories are from people who attempt DIY TCA cross. DIY TCA Cross is dangerous and dermatologists advise against it. Ordinary people don't have the necessary training. TCA bought online is sometimes not medical grade either.

10 hours ago, Toni94 said:

It seems you are an experienced acne scar sufferer...may I ask you sth...What treatments have you undergone over the years? What type/severity of scarring did you have? have you had a significant improvement?

I have done TotalFX, light Erbium, non-ablative laser, TCA and Phenol Cross, 12.5% TCA peels, subcision, Dermapen and Infini microneedling. My scarring is mild compared to people's here but I do have several deep and noticeable scars. So the quantity is low but the severity is moderate.

TotalFX gave me the most improvement even though it wasn't perfect. Maybe the other ones contributed in some way but I don't know how much of a difference they made. My deep scars over the course of three years look better but I don't know what I can contribute them to because collagen takes month to form/build. In other words, the only improvement (and the most) I could see immediately (after recovery) was from TotalFX. However, as I've said many times, the fractional CO2 treatment did not come without risks. I got new scarring from the aggressive treatment and recovery was a pain in the butt.

15 hours ago, Jack817 said:

As for TCA CROSS or Peel, please do have a 2nd thought before goingfor it.
Search TCA Cross Gone Wrong in google , you will see lots of horrible stories.

I am not saying TCA CROSS doesnt work, but it highly depends on the dermatologist skill and how you react. Sometimes even though the derm is highly skilled, you will not see the expected outcome if you dont heal well.
This is the trade off that you have to think about. Some ppl in the forum, including me, has bad experience with TCA Cross in regards to scar widening and PIE/PIH.

TCA Cross can widen/deepen scars and that's the biggest risk one takes. You are right to be extra cautious and members need to know that. However, people do say that it works and more dermatologists are going with that treatment first before lasers.

4 hours ago, Skin Pessimist said:

The reason for that is 12.5% is a weak concentration -- at least as far as TCA goes. It's not the ideal percentage for reaching the dermis.

We'll have to disagree here. When done by a properly trained dermatologist, TCA cross is quite possibly the best procedure for ice pick scars. Complications are possible, but they're rare when a board certified dermatologist is performing the procedure. Most of the TCA cross horror stories are from people who attempt DIY TCA cross. DIY TCA Cross is dangerous and dermatologists advise against it. Ordinary people don't have the necessary training. TCA bought online is sometimes not medical grade either.

Thanks for the info! Yes, 12.5% is weak so I'll need to go higher in percentage. Because I'm mixed, I need to worry about pigmentation issues so I'm working my way up!

15 hours ago, Amanda Hall said:

I have done TotalFX, light Erbium, non-ablative laser, TCA and Phenol Cross, 12.5% TCA peels, subcision, Dermapen and Infini microneedling. My scarring is mild compared to people's here but I do have several deep and noticeable scars. So the quantity is low but the severity is moderate.

TotalFX gave me the most improvement even though it wasn't perfect. Maybe the other ones contributed in some way but I don't know how much of a difference they made. My deep scars over the course of three years look better but I don't know what I can contribute them to because collagen takes month to form/build. In other words, the only improvement (and the most) I could see immediately (after recovery) was from TotalFX. However, as I've said many times, the fractional CO2 treatment did not come without risks. I got new scarring from the aggressive treatment and recovery was a pain in the butt.

Ok so you are basically telling me that you obtained tiny or no results from lasers, but they left you some extra scarring. very motivating indeed!! Were your scars milder than mine?

21 hours ago, Skin Pessimist said:

The reason for that is 12.5% is a weak concentration -- at least as far as TCA goes. It's not the ideal percentage for reaching the dermis.

We'll have to disagree here. When done by a properly trained dermatologist, TCA cross is quite possibly the best procedure for ice pick scars. Complications are possible, but they're rare when a board certified dermatologist is performing the procedure. Most of the TCA cross horror stories are from people who attempt DIY TCA cross. DIY TCA Cross is dangerous and dermatologists advise against it. Ordinary people don't have the necessary training. TCA bought online is sometimes not medical grade either.

What treatment do you think is best for my scarring?

45 minutes ago, Toni94 said:

What treatment do you think is best for my scarring?

It's tough to say because I'm not 100% sure on your scars types. It looks like you mainly have ice pick and box car scars, but some of them I'm not sure on. There also may be a few rolling scars (and some tethered ones in general)

8 minutes ago, Skin Pessimist said:

It's tough to say because I'm not 100% sure on your scars types. It looks like you mainly have ice pick and box car scars, but some of them I'm not sure on. There also may be a few rolling scars (and some tethered ones in general)

Is it worth to try and go to a dermatologist? Treatments in Spain are not half as expensive as they are in the US...but doctors in general don't specialize in acne scarring and they mainly focus on anti-aging techniques, botox, breast-butt enhancements and that kind of thing.

There's a private hospital here in Valencia where doctors charge you 180ish per session of co2 laser...maybe subcision is round 75-100...nothing to do with US doctors' fees. I don't mind having 2-3 rounds of laser or subcision if I get some improvement. But it puts me off to read so many reviews from people saying they had no improvement whatsoever. Most folks even say scars are not treatable.

Do you think I can have a decent improvement if I stick to a treatment plan?

54 minutes ago, Toni94 said:

 

Do you think I can have a decent improvement if I stick to a treatment plan?

Sorry for chiming in, but yes, most definitely. Agoodplan with suitable treatments can give you a decent improvement, especially if you haven't done anything yet. Your scars probably won't disappear completly but they will lookbetter. Don't give up on treating them. Many treatments that work!

On 9/5/2020 at 3:27 PM, Skin Pessimist said:

The reason for that is 12.5% is a weak concentration -- at least as far as TCA goes. It's not the ideal percentage for reaching the dermis.

We'll have to disagree here. When done by a properly trained dermatologist, TCA cross is quite possibly the best procedure for ice pick scars. Complications are possible, but they're rare when a board certified dermatologist is performing the procedure. Most of the TCA cross horror stories are from people who attempt DIY TCA cross. DIY TCA Cross is dangerous and dermatologists advise against it. Ordinary people don't have the necessary training. TCA bought online is sometimes not medical grade either.

I agree. TCA cross is an incredibly effective treatment, it's also the most common treatment I've seen cause adverse results from DIY mistakes. In my perhaps cautious but rightly so opinion, TCA cross should be recommended to be done in office. That strength of acid is not for the majority of untrained people experimenting with it on themselves.Some have success at home and that's great but for most just get yourself a good doctor to oversee that procedure and healing.

I did multiple full face TCA peels at home but I maxed out at 18%. I'm nottotally against DIY but I feel sorry when it goes wrong at home.