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Fluffycakes

Deeper Scars and Lumps From Aggressive Nokor Subcision

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On 2/28/2020 at 11:02 PM, hsd87 said:

Your scars have improved quite a lot imo! Keep massaging those lumps every now and then. It's only temporary stop worrying.

`

 

Edited by Ivan_070703
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@Ivan_070703 have you considered seeing another dermatologist for a second opinion on the lumps. I recently had lumps form due to an allergic reaction to Juvederm and was given Prednisone and steroid injections, which helped the lumps to go down. Not sure if this would help with hematomas resulting from subcision though.

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On 2/29/2020 at 1:39 AM, superburrito said:

@Ivan_070703 have you considered seeing another dermatologist for a second opinion on the lumps. I recently had lumps form due to an allergic reaction to Juvederm and was given Prednisone and steroid injections, which helped the lumps to go down. Not sure if this would help with hematomas resulting from subcision though.

`

Edited by Ivan_070703
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Unfortunately new scars after Nokor( Nokor was inserted right near the edge of the scar, left a pockmark which later merged with the old scar( in several other places there are separate small pockmarks from Nokor.. from Chu’s Sub with Nokor..so the next Dr did Sun in them as well, they improved a bit but still there.. I do see some improvement on your pic... just give it a time..

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On 3/1/2020 at 2:29 AM, Sibel said:

Unfortunately new scars after Nokor( Nokor was inserted right near the edge of the scar, left a pockmark which later merged with the old scar( in several other places there are separate small pockmarks from Nokor.. from Chu’s Sub with Nokor..so the next Dr did Sun in them as well, they improved a bit but still there.. I do see some improvement on your pic... just give it a time..

After read you story I'm scared to get a subcission.
@Ivan_070703 any updates?

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I've only done cannula subcision and I'd suggest sticking with that and not nokor. You should also consider a filler or sculptra the address what looks like fat loss. Cannula subcisions every 3-4 months with sculptra I think would give you a huge improvement as long as your derm knows what he's doing. 

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21 hours ago, Ivan_070703 said:

Hi Urbantie,

 

Unfortunately, the doctor who did the nokor subcision was rather defensive and I couldn't get much straight answers from him. 

I saw some of your older posts where you described you have lumpiness from incorrectly placed fillers. From your pictures, I see similarities between my new scars and yours. As in, the lumpiness actually makes the surface of the skin even more uneven and causes the adjacent scars to become more obvious.

Now, from my layman's understanding, the key difference between the subcision lumpiness and filler lumpiness is that the former should subside. Mine are still very prominent visually, but when I touch them today compared to a month ago, they have soften. My hope is that they will continue to soften and hopefully flatten given more time. I have seen at least one research paper involving 40 subcision patients where firm lumps at the subcision sites completely resolved by 3 months. There are several posters here which mentioned the lumps taking anywhere from a month to 3 months to go away.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281429377_Subcision_in_the_Treatment_of_Acne_Scar_in_Iraqi_Patients

I suspect these subcision lumps are actually just skin tissue that is healing. This is very different from fillers which are a foreign substance injected into the skin, and somethings if injected too superficially, can stay on the surface of the skin for a long time. 

If I could reverse time I still would not do the nokor subcision, it introduces a lot of trauma to the skin, that 18g needle is huge! The recovery process has been a emotional roller-coaster. 

 

Thank you. That was a really good article and I hope you are a bit more comfortable now given that the lumps are likely to go down.

I was surprised that there was no mention of re-tethering in the article AND this particular study did not use derma fillers in conjunction with subcision.

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On 3/10/2020 at 11:06 AM, Urbanite said:

Thank you. That was a really good article and I hope you are a bit more comfortable now given that the lumps are likely to go down.

I was surprised that there was no mention of re-tethering in the article AND this particular study did not use derma fillers in conjunction with subcision.

`

 

 

 

Edited by Ivan_070703
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1 hour ago, Ivan_070703 said:

No worries Urbanite, happy to share what I know.

Have a question for you on microneedling, you mentioned that in 2017 you had Skinpen your left temple and were not happy with the results.  In particular, the tethered areas seemed to get deeper, while the surrounding healthy skin got puffier. 

Would appreciate if you could share:

- whether the skin you micro-needled over returned to normal eventually

- what was the depth of microneedling and was any serum (e.g. hyaluronic acid, vitamin c) used

- did you have fillers in that area? (this is totally a wild guess but could it be that the microneedle pushed the fillers out of the tethered areas into surrounding healthy skin?)

Well, I was so dissatisfied with the result that I asked the doctor -- the aesthetician had Skinpenned me -- to fill the area to even it out. It had not been filled prior to Skinpen. He overfilled it, it looked awful but in about eight months the Restylane Lyft dissolved.

The result is an oddly flattened area like the fat is gone but the scars are still there. I'd say I traded one type of scarring appearance for another.  I don't think Skinpen is recommended for acne scaring, at least not my rolling scar type.  If I'd done this to my cheeks and the result was similar to my temple, I likely would have been on a suicide watch.

Don't remember depth and I think I did apply hyaluronic acid to it daily for about a week or two.  I'll see if I have a photo and post later.

 

Edited by Urbanite
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On 3/10/2020 at 5:59 AM, Ivan_070703 said:

No worries Urbanite, happy to share what I know.

Have a question for you on microneedling, you mentioned that in 2017 you had Skinpen your left temple and were not happy with the results.  In particular, the tethered areas seemed to get deeper, while the surrounding healthy skin got puffier. 

Would appreciate if you could share:

- whether the skin you micro-needled over returned to normal eventually

- what was the depth of microneedling and was any serum (e.g. hyaluronic acid, vitamin c) used

- did you have fillers in that area? (this is totally a wild guess but could it be that the microneedle pushed the fillers out of the tethered areas into surrounding healthy skin?)

 

 

 

How are doing , bumps went away ? 

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8 hours ago, Ivan_070703 said:

Hey Miro,

It has been about 7 weeks, the lumps are still there. 

The huge one of my left cheek is still very prominent. I think it is softening a bit though, but it is really hard to tell because I am looking at it and feeling it daily.

I have about three lumps on my right cheek, one of which has definitely come down and is softer. It's still there, but it is subsided. The other two is still bothering me.

Still regretted doing this Nokor subcision, I honestly don't think it did any good, just hoping that with time the damage would be reversed and the lumps would go away completely. It is very invasive, the Nokor needle is huge, I wouldn't recommend it.

 

Wish you all the best man and good recovery, I wouldnt agree to Nokor, I did twice subcision with cannula, no problems at all, but u can clearly see how skin heals  its not easy, nokor must be hell,.

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Gosh, so sorry to hear that you still have these bumps.. it seems like inside scars were developed and to destroy them you need the steroid injections(...it could be the fault of the Dr who used Nokor wrong or your individual skin properties... 
all these procedures take a huge mental toll...please Do not give up!

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On 6/10/2020 at 5:00 AM, Sibel said:

Gosh, so sorry to hear that you still have these bumps.. it seems like inside scars were developed and to destroy them you need the steroid injections(...it could be the fault of the Dr who used Nokor wrong or your individual skin properties... 
all these procedures take a huge mental toll...please Do not give up!

`

Edited by Ivan_070703
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The key is to get a very low concentration of steroid injections.   The highest concentration you can get is 40 mg/mL.   For something like bringing down an inflamed acne cyst, the concentration is like 2.5 mg/ml.   If you get something on the lower end, you will help to flatten out the lumps without causing dents.   You have to do a series of injections so you don't over correct.    

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