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shei514

CO2 laser in treating acne scars - ultrapulse & Subcision of Acne Scars W/ Dr Lim Dr Rullan and Other Drs - Success Story in Progress

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UPDATES if anyone cares to read! I'm going to Chula Vista to meet with Dr Rullan as I will now be living in Los Angeles starting in about a week! I'm going down to San Diego on the 7th of May to meet with him on the 8th. I haven't been treated in over five months and I'm super excited to get the ball rolling again. 

On 4/13/2019 at 2:04 AM, neofox said:

Im interest , so you will not see again Dr davin lim ?

At this stage, no because I won't be living near him at all and I have no idea when I will. 

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13 hours ago, shei514 said:

UPDATES if anyone cares to read! I'm going to Chula Vista to meet with Dr Rullan as I will now be living in Los Angeles starting in about a week! I'm going down to San Diego on the 7th of May to meet with him on the 8th. I haven't been treated in over five months and I'm super excited to get the ball rolling again. 

At this stage, no because I won't be living near him at all and I have no idea when I will. 

Just saw the Dr's page on internet.Who reccomend him to you?or just your search?from his before and after that i saw he is good

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@sofaki90greece All these Dr's are in the FAQ pinned to the top of the main scar treatments sub, at the bottom of that post. They are mentioned over and over. We never tell someone to travel thousands of miles unless they have the resources to do so and they wish to go through the hassle. 

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12 hours ago, sofaki90greece said:

Just saw the Dr's page on internet.Who reccomend him to you?or just your search?from his before and after that i saw he is good

I was looking for a good scar revision doctor in Southern California and the consensus here is that Dr Rullan is the way to go. 

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As of two days ago, I met with Dr Rullan and had phenol cross, subcision and erbium laser resurfacing. I’m heading back to LA today (thankfully with a face mask) and will soon provide more updates in terms of the experience and my healing process. 

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So finally a more detailed post! For me, I usually aim to see a scar revision specialist every 3-6 months. This time it has been nearly six months and in that time I have moved countries (New Zealand to the US) and life has changed. This is why I have switched doctors for the time being. To be treated by both Dr Lim and Dr Rullan has been amazing, I can't sing their praises enough!!

On the 7th, I met with Dr Rullan in Chula Vista where he did phenol cross, subcision and erbium laser resurfacing. Yes, Rullan usually does phenol cross, subcision and microneedling but he changed his mind and told me laser resurfacing would be the better choice here for me. The cost remains the same and I paid $1250. As far as the pain was concerned, there was basically none and this by far was the most pain-free experience I've had (and obviously I'm not new to acne scar revision procedures). He recommended a full phenol peel but understands not everyone can commit to the time and money of this procedure (for me it's more so the money but also the downtime is a bit of a concern too). But he did say starting this way with cross, subcision and laser resurfacing is the best thing for me right now.

 

Dr Rullan and the staff were amazing. I get so nervous exposing my skin especially for the first time to strangers (even if they are medical professionals) but I did not feel that this time as everyone was just so nice and friendly. I also really like that in the months prior to me being treated, there was a lot of detailed correspondence by email (Amy is amazing!). 

 

I've added pictures. Two are immediately before treatment and the other is about 48 hours post-op. Any questions I'll answer 'em! as of this post, I'm about 2 days post-op. 

 

 

IMG_5962.jpg

IMG_5945.jpg

IMG_5946.jpg

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4 hours ago, shei514 said:

So finally a more detailed post! For me, I usually aim to see a scar revision specialist every 3-6 months. This time it has been nearly six months and in that time I have moved countries (New Zealand to the US) and life has changed. This is why I have switched doctors for the time being. To be treated by both Dr Lim and Dr Rullan has been amazing, I can't sing their praises enough!!

On the 7th, I met with Dr Rullan in Chula Vista where he did phenol cross, subcision and erbium laser resurfacing. Yes, Rullan usually does phenol cross, subcision and microneedling but he changed his mind and told me laser resurfacing would be the better choice here for me. The cost remains the same and I paid $1250. As far as the pain was concerned, there was basically none and this by far was the most pain-free experience I've had (and obviously I'm not new to acne scar revision procedures). He recommended a full phenol peel but understands not everyone can commit to the time and money of this procedure (for me it's more so the money but also the downtime is a bit of a concern too). But he did say starting this way with cross, subcision and laser resurfacing is the best thing for me right now.

 

Dr Rullan and the staff were amazing. I get so nervous exposing my skin especially for the first time to strangers (even if they are medical professionals) but I did not feel that this time as everyone was just so nice and friendly. I also really like that in the months prior to me being treated, there was a lot of detailed correspondence by email (Amy is amazing!). 

 

I've added pictures. Two are immediately before treatment and the other is about 48 hours post-op. Any questions I'll answer 'em! as of this post, I'm about 2 days post-op. 

 

 

IMG_5962.jpg

IMG_5945.jpg

IMG_5946.jpg

How would you compare them, do you think Rullan is as knowledgeable or passionate about acne scars as Lim? Thanks

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@shei514 Thank you for sharing your experience. From what I see above I would talk to Dr Rullan about some Sculptra injected throughout the upper cheek post subcision next time. I know he will probably do a deep peel for your texture, and I would wait on that till the end. I would do several more subcisions.I know Lim originally ulra-pulsed you because of overly fibrotic scars but I would not do fully ablative laser resurfacing now, ... there is a long way to go before we get here (my famous analogy of fill the pot holes before the pavement is laid). Looks like they did it very superficially as well or you would have down time for weeks. 

Did Rullan stack the fully ablative erbium and his other manual treatments together at one time or was that another Dr who did that part? Did he do this or someone else. Rullan is generally less specialized in laser but can get the same results with chemical peels and manual methods. There are so many other Dr's in LA that can do Laser on you if you need. Dr Rullan also does not do RF needling, which can be procured at any med spa between your subcisions. I know your treating slow and this is fine, "every 6-8 months." 

** Please Note I offer to acne scar suffers a "more" "customized" (private) consultation than the above general advice. Analysis, answering questions, ongoing support by Private Messaging. Feel free to message me there. Be patient as I can get over 100+ of the worst acne scar cases to help, it "may" take me up to 48 hours to respond.

Checkout the main scar treatments sub, find the FAQ pinned on top there, goto the bottom, there are Dr's or call around and ask who does cannula subcision or nokor subcision (needle type) to dermatologists and or plastic surgeons, consult a few before you decide who you like, even if you have to pay as treatment is expensive, better like them. Ask how many subcisions they do a month and if they treat your skin type. If they just do laser run they will just blast you and not solve your issue.

___________
Disclaimer: Information and support is not meant to diagnosis, treatment, or cure any health or mental condition and is not a substitute for professional face to face medical care  (consult with a few Dr's and pick your favorite one). Posts are for informational purposes only, please consult your personal health care practitioner before engaging in anything discussed.

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@beautifulambition  I agree, whether or not I go ahead with the full peel or not (definitely not financially feasible right now), I think that should be saved for later or closer to the end of my acne scar revision journey. I think the hardest part is feeling like there's no end in site because I'll never get 100% clear skin, so when do I quit? It's hard to say. I understand Dr Rullan is known for his chemical peels 

He did everything at one time on me - phenol cross, immediately after subcision and then about 20 minutes later fractionated erbium laser resurfacing. I'm not sure what parameters he dialled in but I will request my notes and hopefully I get a timely response to update y'all because it was a very last minute change as like I said, we were going to go ahead with microneedling.  I am definitely interested to see what I can get done here in LA like RF microneedling, maybe sub + filler too in the meantime. Should this be 3 months post-op at the earliest? I really think subcision + filler will really give me the best results for my scars. Dr Rullan did mention filler for me so I'm curious what the next visit will entail (if I can make it down there again). 

Now for my scars, it seems like no matter what, the boxcars on my right cheek still remain two years after countless treatments and so I wonder if anything will work on them or if they should be excised. I couldn't say. I know acne scar revision requires you to be patient and not expect a miracle and I feel like some really nasty scars I have won't budge. 

 

 

15 hours ago, Skyblue2073 said:

How would you compare them, do you think Rullan is as knowledgeable or passionate about acne scars as Lim? Thanks

I would say they are equally pretty knowledgeable and passionate. Dr Rullan talked to me about his mindset in treating acne scars, he told me acne scars are inherently unfair and he hates unfairness. Dr Lim is also very passionate. Both doctors have different approaches but they are 100% there for the patient IMO. You can see that in the prices they charge compared to other derms, how they interact with their patients, etc. 

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@shei514 Don't loose heart, it's a long journey. I definitely think the Sculptra injections after your subcision would help. 

Clear skin 100%, maybe not, but softening of the skin and improvement, yes we have a lot we can do. Let's lift the scars as much as possible (subcision and Sculptra), and then finish with a deep peel by Rullan once things are as lifted as possible so we have a nice canvas to work on the texture. 

Are you still breaking out, ... have you been tested for hormones and a blood pannel? Another option is Hollywood peels or carbon peels, ... any med spa in LA can do them and they clean out the pore. 

Fractional erbium, wonder why he did that, ... must think your scars are still fibrotic.

Give a consult to Dr Pein in Hollywood and Dr Hazany in Beverly Hills a visit for a consultation, Pien specializes in lasers, and Hazany in a very aggressive forum of subcision Taylor Liberator. Worth it to see their recommendations so you have "more" choice(s).

Regarding the box cars, if they are resistant to treatments, speak to a plastic surgeon who does punch excision or punch floats. Tons in Hollywood area. Google and or Call and ask do you do punch excision or punch floats for acne scars or do you do scar revision. Ask how they do it and do a consult, ... and for pictures. IT's surgical so you want them to be very experienced. 

Recap: See a combo or Rullan, and whomever for energy devices / rf needling. (Optional) Plastic for punch excision.

 

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7 hours ago, beautifulambition said:

@shei514 Don't loose heart, it's a long journey. I definitely think the Sculptra injections after your subcision would help. 

Clear skin 100%, maybe not, but softening of the skin and improvement, yes we have a lot we can do. Let's lift the scars as much as possible (subcision and Sculptra), and then finish with a deep peel by Rullan once things are as lifted as possible so we have a nice canvas to work on the texture. 

Are you still breaking out, ... have you been tested for hormones and a blood pannel? Another option is Hollywood peels or carbon peels, ... any med spa in LA can do them and they clean out the pore. 

Fractional erbium, wonder why he did that, ... must think your scars are still fibrotic.

Give a consult to Dr Pein in Hollywood and Dr Hazany in Beverly Hills a visit for a consultation, Pien specializes in lasers, and Hazany in a very aggressive forum of subcision Taylor Liberator. Worth it to see their recommendations so you have "more" choice(s).

Regarding the box cars, if they are resistant to treatments, speak to a plastic surgeon who does punch excision or punch floats. Tons in Hollywood area. Google and or Call and ask do you do punch excision or punch floats for acne scars or do you do scar revision. Ask how they do it and do a consult, ... and for pictures. IT's surgical so you want them to be very experienced. 

Recap: See a combo or Rullan, and whomever for energy devices / rf needling. (Optional) Plastic for punch excision.

 

Thank you, this is very very helpful advice going forward! I forgot to mention, but while Dr Rullan was treating me, he talked about acne.org and actually mentioned you by name and how intelligent people are here in this community :-) 

And yes, I am still breaking out, worse than I have in years lol. I have some stridex pads and some benzoyl peroxide but changing my diet really wreaked havoc on my skin lol (I digress)... 

For everyone else reading, I will upload some pictures showing how my skin heals over the following weeks and days. I'm regrettably out in public today (day 4 post-op) but I will feel more comfortable doing this at about day 7 I think. I want to say if you're thinking of this procedure, or any sort of procedure like this,  you will SWELL and that will make you think your skin looks AMAZING but please let your skin heal fully before you assess your skin! The swelling really skews things and this is not to say that the final result isn't good or anything, but I have made this mistake many many times. 

 

 

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@shei514 Welcome! 

Quote

I want to say if you're thinking of this procedure, or any sort of procedure like this,  you will SWELL and that will make you think your skin looks AMAZING but please let your skin heal fully before you assess your skin! The swelling really skews things and this is not to say that the final result isn't good or anything, but I have made this mistake many many times. 

This is good advice, and why I recommend 3 months between treatments or whatever you can afford, some only can treat once or twice a year. You can really see what works and what does not / how you heal. Many Dr's push treatments monthly and that hides what is going on with swelling. One nugget I want to share is if you like swelling as everyone does post procedure. That makes a good case for filler and in your case Sculptra throughout the cheek, I would use a few vials on you, spread them out with subcisions until I reached a point you like the volume (which can help just like the look of swelling does). Often may don't get enough filler and this step helps a lot. 

Did anyone ever test your for hormonal acne or imbalances with lab/ blood testing. Some Hollywood peels or carbon peels where you leave on the carbon for some time could help you treat his as well, ... in LA they are all over. Make sure you leave the carbon on for 1.5hrs before the procedure as many rush this step and it does not penetrate the pores. Other options are laser genesis, and photofacials, IPL can even help with acne. Lots of options and med spa's in LA. IPL is cheap and these can be done more often than acne scar treatment.

 

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6
On 5/13/2019 at 8:41 AM, beautifulambition said:

@shei514 Welcome! 

This is good advice, and why I recommend 3 months between treatments or whatever you can afford, some only can treat once or twice a year. You can really see what works and what does not / how you heal. Many Dr's push treatments monthly and that hides what is going on with swelling. One nugget I want to share is if you like swelling as everyone does post procedure. That makes a good case for filler and in your case Sculptra throughout the cheek, I would use a few vials on you, spread them out with subcisions until I reached a point you like the volume (which can help just like the look of swelling does). Often may don't get enough filler and this step helps a lot. 

Did anyone ever test your for hormonal acne or imbalances with lab/ blood testing. Some Hollywood peels or carbon peels where you leave on the carbon for some time could help you treat his as well, ... in LA they are all over. Make sure you leave the carbon on for 1.5hrs before the procedure as many rush this step and it does not penetrate the pores. Other options are laser genesis, and photofacials, IPL can even help with acne. Lots of options and med spa's in LA. IPL is cheap and these can be done more often than acne scar treatment.

 

I will definitely be looking into that very soon because there could very well be some sort of hormonal imbalance or something that would explain why I'm breaking out this frequently.

I got my notes back yesterday from Dr Rullan for anyone curious so I will post them here for anyone curious. 

Plan : Criss Carbolic. Skin was clean and prepped with medical acetone and pictures were taken. CROSS was performed using Carbolic acid and a brush. Prior to the procedure, written consent was obtained and risks were reviewed, including but not limited to: redness, peeling, blistering, pigmentary change, scarring, infection, and pain. Patient is aware multiple treatments may be necessary to achieve the desired outcome. A cross Carbolic scar revision with 88% phenol was performed on the body. Scar frosting was 2+. Post-peel erythema was moderate. Pt tolerated Carbolic treatment well

Plan: Subcision. The area was prepped with Acetone. A 18G cannula was then inserted into the incision to the level of the subcutaneous fat. The 18G cannula was then used to release the overlying scars from the underlying tissue. Hemostasis was achieved with pressure. No ointment + bandage applied and wound care reviewed.

Plan : Erbium: YAG Non-Ablative Laser. Location: cheeks Energy: 2500 mJ/cm2 Spot Size: 9x9 Spot Depth: long Number of Passes: 1 Energy #2: 1800 mJ/cm2

 

 

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Posted (edited)

If I were you I'd save money and stop all treatments. They don't work and I can say this with confidence because I did all of them and with some of the best dermatologists in the world (suggested here). 

All they do is give you the impression they work during the first week or two (or more for subcision because swelling last more) but after the swelling goes down, the scars are the same as before. Maybe only the texture is a bit better, but that's it.....our bank account instead is down thousands of euros. 

Whoever suggest we can have 60+% improvements doesn't work in an ethical way in my opinion. 

 

Edited by SimpleMutton

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4 hours ago, SimpleMutton said:

If I were you I'd save money and stop all treatments. They don't work and I can say this with confidence because I did all of them and with some of the best dermatologists in the world (suggested here). 

All they do is give you the impression they work during the first week or two (or more for subcision because swelling last more) but after the swelling goes down, the scars are the same as before. Maybe only the texture is a bit better, but that's it.....our bank account instead is down thousands of euros. 

Whoever suggest we can have 60+% improvements doesn't work in an ethical way in my opinion. 

 

Acne scarring and acne have really screwed me up mentally. It's a condition I think that really really screws with you because your face is what people see when they first see you and if it's scarred, your whole perception of yourself is off. The fact that my skin will never be perfect is something I have to live with every single day. I see people with clear skin and I think of stuff I would do or trade to have that, knowing life doesn't work like that, that my scarring to some degree is permanent. I will fluctuate between partial acceptance (never full) and complete self-hatred sometimes within a day. It's something I always have to manage and deal with. I wouldn't wish this condition on anyone. When you feel like me every day, it brings out a kind of desperation. I mean you guys see this thread. I'm from New Zealand and have been to two different countries to treat my scarring. This is why finding a good doctor is important because there are doctors who will take advantage of your vulnerable state. But being normal and looking normal is something I would like to get to as close as possible. 

I have spent more than 20,000 NZD treating my scars so far. I have gone to two different countries for revision of my scars. There is nothing I wouldn't do to treat my scars because if I can feel a little bit better about myself, it's worth it. Now does it look like I have had 20,000 dollars worth of work done? No. Unfortunately, you can't spend x amount of money and be guaranteed x percentage of improvement. Some people here have had a treatment or two and heal up fantastically. Those people are outliers but I have seen this happen here. There are people whose scars are very severe but because they're not well established (ie, 6 months or less), they heal up fantastically. You never really know until you throw yourself into it. I have come out of laser procedures a week out and felt a kind of high to eventually go "oh" when my scars return, ie swelling goes down. It's really fucked up, it feels like getting everything you want and then it all gets taken away. I tell myself I will manage my expectations and not expect a miracle but every single time I do and despite my brain telling myself to be logical and wary it's not how I feel. That's why I am not going to spend all my money on this anymore. I'm going to wait. I'm going to assess my skin. I'm hopefully going to make smart decisions and prioritise my happiness. 

I am down thousands but I do not think I have achieved even close to 50% improvement. Is it worth it? Honestly, I go back and forth. None of this is easy, none of this feels good, the money, the treatments, the hope, the disappointment. You feel it all. 

Tbh I appreciate your comment and sorry for the ramble, it's useful here to discuss how this condition and how even treatment isn't a magical solution to our scarring. Like I said, none of this is easy, none of it. 

BTW to anyone reading, this is to not say I have had no improvement or that any doctor is at fault. This is reality.  

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To Whom It May Concern (Generalized Post):

  • Your open to your own opinion and we will agree to disagree. I believe in ethics and "educate." I try not to use my opinion, outcomes are based on clinical experience, studies, and helping thousands, no one else can say that here. 
  • I think these posts are going to depress a lot of people who are suffering and make them doubt getting treatment. This is sad and one sided, to a group think mentality of Debbie downer this forum can perpetuate. The hurting tend to stay and the one's who heal and succeed do not stay around here a long time, and move on with their lives.  
  • I think for disclosure you (Member: @------------) posts often in scarless healing and believe in the fantasy of _____ "it," you often post "nothing" works and you want scarless healing.
  • That (Member: @------------) is upset about your treatments that were performed poorly and did not lead to "any" results you wanted. IF you need further analysis of why treatment failed please give me a full history of treatment(s) and I can help. I do this often. Often there is a error to approach, error of a Dr(s), health condition, healing condition, sensitivity, or simply a square peg is being fit in a round hole. No one should microneedle and expect it to get rid of their acne scars (you state in another post you did it 40 times with no results), this is not a mono (single)-treatment you do alone and some scar cases it's not a approach for any treatment for the scar type (patient history). 
  • That you case is exactly my point with Cognitive Distortions, Mental Health Issues Associated with Acne/ Scars, Circular thinking,... you are equating that no one else will get improvements because you did not get the quality of improvements you sought. That is like stating no one will be successful because you are not. Healing capability is a big part of treatment, health concerns, sensitivities, environmental factors, and using the right treatment for your scar type. I forget the "top Dr" you sought for care, but if it was Dr Chu/Rullan alone will not get you to where you want to be, ... it also takes getting other work like energy devices with another Dr. Sadly Dr Chu I don't overly recommend anymore as he will not stay up to date with the newest treatments, nor will he help some scar suffers, his colleague Dr Anil does though. Some cases are not appropriate for the Dr who is treating, .... you have to find a good fit. 
  • I have helped thousands "thousands" and I have seen more improvement with real life experience than you are proporting does not happen. to dismiss that is a cognitive distortion. A big part of treatment is patient education and allowing the patient to be empowered with choices. There are a lot of bad Dr's and treatments out there, ... Dr's do over promise results, and some patients are not good candidates for treatment and would do better to accept their scars (very very few - but a few cases). 
  • I choose to live in the present not the future or the past which is not healthy. 
  • I am not trying to sell anything or lead people on with "swelling." Look at the success stories if your a doubter.  50% is achievable if you keep a realistic mindset  that treatment is long and some magical scarless healing topical will not get rid of scars. But maybe scarless healing (projection) is better to protect those who cannot handle the struggle and journey of scar treatment.
  • Who Cares about how a baby heals scarless in the protected womb. A baby is not exposed ____ (everything I mentioned above that constantly bombards us and retards our health and well being). Younger adults heal better than older adults with scars (Aging has it's effects). I covered this all above in my post. They have stem cells currently from "babies" they do very little for anti-aging.
  • Sadly many acne scar snuffer's have very deep internal scars that they never deal with. As such Therapy is much more important than sometimes the physical treatments. Talkspace allows unlimited therapy though a smart phone if you need someone to support you and work through these deep internal wounds. Some would be better to accept their condition and give up treatment if it will cause them further anguish and harm. You just don't know the outcome of success until you get into this and physically see results over time. This is with any major surgery their is a % of success and a percentage of unmet expectations / failure. If I could save you the hurt, pain, and anguish I would - but the struggle is part of the healing. You can't coach someone who does not want to be helped or fix someone who thinks they are not broken.
  • When is good enough, good enough - that is the question.
  • Finally if it does not work and you have given a fighting chance, then perhaps just stop, therapy would be a better idea in that case. Please see the quoted box below about what acne scar cases suffer with, ... one of the biggest issues that are never treated in clinics.

@ScarRight I would like to hear your opinion, always good to hear rounded viewpoints.

 

@shei514
shei514 can obviously tell if her scars or worse or better than when she started. She has been nothing but transparent with her treatment. Allowed time to heal and observe changes, that are permanent. Is educated and has personal expedience now with some of the best Drs. the above poster is discounting her experience and limiting her potential (my opinion). I hope shi514 uses her intuition to do what is best for herself, not the cognitive outcome someone else wants for her. 
* Shei I want to encourage you and empower you to improve your scars, that is my only goal. I see so much potential for improvement. I am not talking about "Swelling."
* It's sad many who are here, ... God Forbid if they had something tough in their lives. They would simply give up. Cancer / Chemo. Burn Scars, Mobility issues. Of course this is not fun. I see mistakes in your treatment. I think the huuuuuuuuuuuuuge missing link here is unrealistic expectations (cover this in the mental quoted material below), and that it's a long jounrey. Shei's scars are severe, of course it's going to take longer to heal. I don't think laser alone will get you there. I analyzed and agave above what I see helping you as you state you "like the swelling" If a patient likes swelling post procedure, they will love volume from filler!
* I cannot change people's minds and heart, I can re-frame the conversation and give some "hope."
* I don't think anyone has to spend 20,000 NZ to be treated, I try to save people all the "crap" and provide things that really work. I help those also with zero income here. I feel far to often laser is just blasted over the patient with a huge bill built up and broken promises. Laser is for texture NOT to treat all scars. The patient may not even not have the same goals the Dr does. I have had patients happy from surgical methods alone (cut it out), ... that relies on how you heal big time.  Then there are those who are waiting for scarless healing 100% fantasy - because they have one large pore. 
* Anyone who is a scar suffer should wait at "least" 3 months after treatment to see the final outcome and let the swelling go down, this is common knowledge here not me selling you anything. 

...

Your not like anyone else on these forums. I cannot over-analyze every choice, health concern, and action done in your life. It all depends on how you heal. I Get your frustration.

No scar  case is  the same, we are not clones, one person could do a million procedures and not be you, your all different ages, ethnic backgrounds, healing capabilities, plans for treatment, outcomes, different surgeons (they treat differently as well), etc, we could go on and on. The point being is never compare yourself to someone else. Sure you can learn from their experience but do we really know every single detail about what was done and why - no.  If someone heals poorly or had a poor Dr they typically hang around here.

Goto a board certified Dr for help, ... if you want get 3 opinions and choose the one you like best. Your cases have nothing to do with each other or anyone else here, everyone is a individual with a different story.

It takes time to heal (this is a marathon and not a race, many do treatments every 3 months over 3 years time),... it's slow with lots of treatments. 

 

 

Quote
Mental Issues Effecting Scar Suffers:

15 Common Cognitive Distortions

Cognitive distortions are simply ways that our mind convinces us of something that isn’t really true. These inaccurate thoughts are usually used to reinforce negative thinking or emotions — telling ourselves things that sound rational and accurate, but really only serve to keep us feeling bad about ourselves.

For instance, a person might tell themselves, “I always fail when I try to do something new; I therefore fail at everything I try.” This is an example of “black or white” (or polarized) thinking. The person is only seeing things in absolutes — that if they fail at one thing, they must fail at all things. If they added, “I must be a complete loser and failure” to their thinking, that would also be an example of overgeneralization — taking a failure at one specific task and generalizing it their very self and identity.

Cognitive distortions are at the core of what many cognitive-behavioral and other kinds of therapists try and help a person learn to change in psychotherapy. By learning to correctly identify this kind of “stinkin’ thinkin’,” a person can then answer the negative thinking back, and refute it. By refuting the negative thinking over and over again, it will slowly diminish overtime and be automatically replaced by more rational, balanced thinking.

The Most Common Cognitive Distortions

In 1976, psychologist Aaron Beck first proposed the theory behind cognitive distortions and in the 1980s, David Burns was responsible for popularizing it with common names and examples for the distortions.

1. Filtering

FilteringA person engaging in filter (or “mental filtering) takes the negative details and magnifies those details while filtering out all positive aspects of a situation. For instance, a person may pick out a single, unpleasant detail and dwell on it exclusively so that their vision of reality becomes darkened or distorted. When a cognitive filter is applied, the person sees only the negative and ignores anything positive.

2. Polarized Thinking (or “Black and White” Thinking)

polarized thinkingIn polarized thinking, things are either “black-or-white” — all or nothing. We have to be perfect or we’re a complete and abject failure — there is no middle ground. A person with polarized thinking places people or situations in “either/or” categories, with no shades of gray or allowing for the complexity of most people and most situations. A person with black-and-white thinking sees things only in extremes.

3. Overgeneralization

overgeneralizationIn this cognitive distortion, a person comes to a general conclusion based on a single incident or a single piece of evidence. If something bad happens just once, they expect it to happen over and over again. A person may see a single, unpleasant event as part of a never-ending pattern of defeat.

For instance, if a student gets a poor grade on one paper in one semester, they conclude they are a horrible student and should quit school.

4. Jumping to Conclusions

Jumping to ConclusionsWithout individuals saying so, a person who jumps to conclusions knows what another person is feeling and thinking — and exactly why they act the way they do. In particular, a person is able to determine how others are feeling toward the person, as though they could read their mind. Jumping to conclusions can also manifest itself as fortune-telling, where a person believes their entire future is pre-ordained (whether it be in school, work, or romantic relationships).

For example, a person may conclude that someone is holding a grudge against them, but doesn’t actually bother to find out if they are correct. Another example involving fortune-telling is when a person may anticipate that things will turn out badly in their next relationship, and will feel convinced that their prediction is already an established fact, so why bother dating.

5. Catastrophizing

catastrophizingWhen a person engages in catastrophizing, they expect disaster to strike, no matter what. This is also referred to as magnifying, and can also come out in its opposite behavior, minimizing. In this distortion, a person hears about a problem and uses what if questions (e.g., “What if tragedy strikes?” “What if it happens to me?”) to imagine the absolute worst occurring.

For example, a person might exaggerate the importance of insignificant events (such as their mistake, or someone else’s achievement). Or they may inappropriately shrink the magnitude of significant events until they appear tiny (for example, a person’s own desirable qualities or someone else’s imperfections).

With practice, you can learn to answer each of these cognitive distortions.

6. Personalization

PersonalizationsPersonalization is a distortion where a person believes that everything others do or say is some kind of direct, personal reaction to them. They literally take virtually everything personally, even when something is not meant in that way. A person who experiences this kind of thinking will also compare themselves to others, trying to determine who is smarter, better looking, etc.

A person engaging in personalization may also see themselves as the cause of some unhealthy external event that they were not responsible for. For example, “We were late to the dinner party and caused everyone to have a terrible time. If I had only pushed my husband to leave on time, this wouldn’t have happened.”

7. Control Fallacies

Fallacy of ControlThis distortion involves two different but related beliefs about being in complete control of every situation in a person’s life. In the first, if we feel externally controlled, we see ourselves as helpless a victim of fate. For example, “I can’t help it if the quality of the work is poor, my boss demanded I work overtime on it.”

The fallacy of internal control has us assuming responsibility for the pain and happiness of everyone around us. For example, “Why aren’t you happy? Is it because of something I did?”

8. Fallacy of Fairness

Fallacy of FairnessIn the fallacy of fairness, a person feels resentful because they think that they know what is fair, but other people won’t agree with them. As our parents tell us when we’re growing up and something doesn’t go our way, “Life isn’t always fair.” People who go through life applying a measuring ruler against every situation judging its “fairness” will often feel resentful, angry, and even hopelessness because of it. Because life isn’t fair — things will not always work out in a person’s favor, even when they should.

9. Blaming

BlamingWhen a person engages in blaming, they hold other people responsible for their emotional pain. They may also take the opposite track and instead blame themselves for every problem — even those clearly outside their own control.

For example, “Stop making me feel bad about myself!” Nobody can “make” us feel any particular way — only we have control over our own emotions and emotional reactions.

10. Shoulds

ShouldsShould statements (“I should pick up after myself more…”) appear as a list of ironclad rules about how every person should behave. People who break the rules make a person following these should statements angry. They also feel guilty when they violate their own rules. A person may often believe they are trying to motivate themselves with shoulds and shouldn’ts, as if they have to be punished before they can do anything.

For example, “I really should exercise. I shouldn’t be so lazy.” Musts and oughts are also offenders. The emotional consequence is guilt. When a person directs should statements toward others, they often feel anger, frustration and resentment.

11. Emotional Reasoning

Emotional ReasoningThe distortion of emotional reasoning can be summed up by the statement, “If I feel that way, it must be true.” Whatever a person is feeling is believed to be true automatically and unconditionally. If a person feels stupid and boring, then they must be stupid and boring.

Emotions are extremely strong in people, and can overrule our rational thoughts and reasoning. Emotional reasoning is when a person’s emotions takes over our thinking entirely, blotting out all rationality and logic. The person who engages in emotional reasoning assumes that their unhealthy emotions reflect the way things really are — “I feel it, therefore it must be true.”

12. Fallacy of Change

Fallacy of ChangeIn the fallacy of change, a person expects that other people will change to suit them if they just pressure or cajole them enough. A person needs to change people because their hopes for success and happiness seem to depend entirely on them.

This distortion is often found in thinking around relationships. For example, a girlfriend who tries to get her boyfriend to improve his appearance and manners, in the belief that this boyfriend is perfect in every other way and will make them happy if they only changed these few minor things.

13. Global Labeling

Global LabelingIn global labeling (also referred to as mislabeling), a person generalizes one or two qualities into a negative global judgment about themselves or another person. This is an extreme form of overgeneralizing. Instead of describing an error in context of a specific situation, a person will attach an unhealthy universal label to themselves or others.

For example, they may say, “I’m a loser” in a situation where they failed at a specific task. When someone else’s behavior rubs a person the wrong way — without bothering to understand any context around why — they may attach an unhealthy label to him, such as “He’s a real jerk.”

Mislabeling involves describing an event with language that is highly colored and emotionally loaded. For example, instead of saying someone drops her children off at daycare every day, a person who is mislabeling might say that “She abandons her children to strangers.”

14. Always Being Right

Always being rightWhen a person engages in this distortion, they are continually putting other people on trial to prove that their own opinions and actions are the absolute correct ones. To a person engaging in “always being right,” being wrong is unthinkable — they will go to any length to demonstrate their rightness.

For example, “I don’t care how badly arguing with me makes you feel, I’m going to win this argument no matter what because I’m right.” Being right often is more important than the feelings of others around a person who engages in this cognitive distortion, even loved ones.

15. Heaven’s Reward Fallacy

Heavens Reward FallacyThe final cognitive distortion is the false belief that a person’s sacrifice and self-denial will eventually pay off, as if some global force is keeping score. This is a riff on the fallacy of fairness, because in a fair world, the people who work the hardest will get the largest reward. A person who sacrifices and works hard but doesn’t experience the expected pay off will usually feel bitter when the reward doesn’t come.

_____________________________________________________

5 Mental Health Issues Associated with Acne

by  

453283087_c1d63addac-300x168.jpgWe all know that acne a very emotionally painful condition. It can certainly be physically painful as well, but it is usually nothing compared to the frustration, shame, and sadness that this rollercoaster of a disease can lock a person into.

Unfortunately, acne is an absolute champ at triggering some serious mental health issues – there is no question there. Most people blame their emotional problems on the acne itself, and therefore believe that as soon as the acne is gone, the depression and anxiety will go too. I believe strongly that acne may be the trigger and the justifier but not the cause of the emotional distress itself.

I believe that it comes from within and could have just as easily been triggered and justified by something else.

As a consequence of this, mental health issues can quickly get out of hand and not be realized by those expressing the symptoms. Because the blame is constantly put onto the acne, a long hard look at oneself is usually brushed aside. I’m not saying that you are to blame either, but that awareness is the first step to recovery.

The following mental health diseases can be strongly linked with acne. Most people will not have full blown versions of these, but often bits and pieces of each (which was the case with me). The purpose of this post is bring to light some disconcerting tendencies that you may not have realized you were displaying – before things start to get out of control.

  1. Depression. It’s characterized by feeling sad, unworthy, guilty, and helpless. Those with depression usually lack energy and motivation, and feel quite fatigued most of the time. They lose interest in normal activities and spending time with friends. It can also be hard to concentrate and they may have suicidal thoughts. Remember that everyone gets down sometimes but actual depression is when these feelings last more than a couple of weeks at a time.
  2. Anxiety. It’s characterized by excessive worry, fear, and apprehension over real or imagined situations – sometimes it manifests as a dark, ominous feeling with no real basis. Those with anxiety disorders can have uncontrollable excessive thoughts, repeated flashbacks to traumatic experiences, nightmares, sleep disturbances, jitteriness, digestive problems, and muscular tension.
  3. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. OCD is a subset of anxiety. It’s characterized by developing strict, repetitive rituals and routines in order to deal with fears and anxieties, and those with OCD fear severe consequences if the rituals are broken. What’s worse is that they often realize the rituals are irrational – which can cause a lot of distress – but they just. can’t. stop. Classic rituals for OCD sufferers usually include things like obsessive hand washing, counting objects, and checking 20 times that the stove is really off. For those with acne, it can manifest in excessive skin picking and preening, obsessive face washing and topical application, and completely unreasonable fears and routines revolving around food.
  4. Orthorexia Nervosa. It is an anxiety disorder related to anorexia. Orthorexia is characterized by an unhealthy obsession with healthy eating, to the point where it severely interferes with normal life. It can even lead to malnourishment and death in severe cases. Much in the way that those with anorexia use their weight as an emotional scapegoat and limit food in order to feel in control, those with orthorexia are fixated on eating “pure” and “correct” foods in order to deal with emotions triggered by a variety of things (perhaps acne). They feel in complete control when they eat perfectly, and extremely guilty, shameful, and fearful when they don’t.
  5. Body Dysmoprhic Disorder, and more specifically, Acne Dysmorphic Disorder. It is characterized by a serious preoccupation with a real or imaginary physical flaw. There is excessive anxiety and stress over the perceived flaw and the person with BDD spends an unreasonable amount of time focusing on it, picking at it, excessively checking their appearance in a mirror, hiding the imperfection, comparing it with others, grooming, constantly seeking reassurance from others about it, and even getting repeated cosmetic surgery. With acne dysmorphic disorder, the perceived flaw is acne, blemishes, and scarring. Often the sufferer has mild acne but when they look at themselves in the mirror, the acne appears to them to be a hundred times worse than the reality.

 

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9 hours ago, shei514 said:

Acne scarring and acne have really screwed me up mentally. It's a condition I think that really really screws with you because your face is what people see when they first see you and if it's scarred, your whole perception of yourself is off. The fact that my skin will never be perfect is something I have to live with every single day. I see people with clear skin and I think of stuff I would do or trade to have that, knowing life doesn't work like that, that my scarring to some degree is permanent. I will fluctuate between partial acceptance (never full) and complete self-hatred sometimes within a day. It's something I always have to manage and deal with. I wouldn't wish this condition on anyone. When you feel like me every day, it brings out a kind of desperation. I mean you guys see this thread. I'm from New Zealand and have been to two different countries to treat my scarring. This is why finding a good doctor is important because there are doctors who will take advantage of your vulnerable state. But being normal and looking normal is something I would like to get to as close as possible. 

I have spent more than 20,000 NZD treating my scars so far. I have gone to two different countries for revision of my scars. There is nothing I wouldn't do to treat my scars because if I can feel a little bit better about myself, it's worth it. Now does it look like I have had 20,000 dollars worth of work done? No. Unfortunately, you can't spend x amount of money and be guaranteed x percentage of improvement. Some people here have had a treatment or two and heal up fantastically. Those people are outliers but I have seen this happen here. There are people whose scars are very severe but because they're not well established (ie, 6 months or less), they heal up fantastically. You never really know until you throw yourself into it. I have come out of laser procedures a week out and felt a kind of high to eventually go "oh" when my scars return, ie swelling goes down. It's really fucked up, it feels like getting everything you want and then it all gets taken away. I tell myself I will manage my expectations and not expect a miracle but every single time I do and despite my brain telling myself to be logical and wary it's not how I feel. That's why I am not going to spend all my money on this anymore. I'm going to wait. I'm going to assess my skin. I'm hopefully going to make smart decisions and prioritise my happiness. 

I am down thousands but I do not think I have achieved even close to 50% improvement. Is it worth it? Honestly, I go back and forth. None of this is easy, none of this feels good, the money, the treatments, the hope, the disappointment. You feel it all. 

Tbh I appreciate your comment and sorry for the ramble, it's useful here to discuss how this condition and how even treatment isn't a magical solution to our scarring. Like I said, none of this is easy, none of it. 

BTW to anyone reading, this is to not say I have had no improvement or that any doctor is at fault. This is reality.  

Your experience is similar to mine so I can totally understand you, I feel the same. I spent even more than 20,000€ and I, myself, have toured all Europe to go to the best dermatologists in Europe but I didn't see results (except of course for the swelling....no matter the treatment, in the first week my skin looked MUCH improved because of the swelling and every time I got tricked by that only to feel disappointed when the swelling goes down).

I also agree with you that having a scar-free face (or almost scar free) is very important for our confidence and well being. I'd give everything to cure my scars and trust me, if there is a product out there who can give us 80%+ improvement I'd be the first one to do it and advise everybody to go do it...I wouldn't even care if I have to go outside Europe to get it....I would do it and then finally move on with my life and live my life to the fullest. 

Wish you luck with your treatments and hope the best for you!

 

 

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7 hours ago, beautifulambition said:

To Whom It May Concern (Generalized Post):

  • Your open to your own opinion and we will agree to disagree. I believe in ethics and "educate." I try not to use my opinion, outcomes are based on clinical experience, studies, and helping thousands, no one else can say that here. 
  • I think these posts are going to depress a lot of people who are suffering and make them doubt getting treatment. This is sad and one sided, to a group think mentality of Debbie downer this forum can perpetuate. The hurting tend to stay and the one's who heal and succeed do not stay around here a long time, and move on with their lives.  
  • I think for disclosure you (Member: @------------) posts often in scarless healing and believe in the fantasy of _____ "it," you often post "nothing" works and you want scarless healing.
  • That (Member: @------------) is upset about your treatments that were performed poorly and did not lead to "any" results you wanted. IF you need further analysis of why treatment failed please give me a full history of treatment(s) and I can help. I do this often. Often there is a error to approach, error of a Dr(s), health condition, healing condition, sensitivity, or simply a square peg is being fit in a round hole. No one should microneedle and expect it to get rid of their acne scars (you state in another post you did it 40 times with no results), this is not a mono (single)-treatment you do alone and some scar cases it's not a approach for any treatment for the scar type (patient history). 
  • That you case is exactly my point with Cognitive Distortions, Mental Health Issues Associated with Acne/ Scars, Circular thinking,... you are equating that no one else will get improvements because you did not get the quality of improvements you sought. That is like stating no one will be successful because you are not. Healing capability is a big part of treatment, health concerns, sensitivities, environmental factors, and using the right treatment for your scar type. I forget the "top Dr" you sought for care, but if it was Dr Rullan alone will not get you to where you want to be, ... it also takes getting other work like energy devices with another Dr. Some cases are not appropriate for the Dr who is treating, .... you have to find a good fit. 
  • I have helped thousands "thousands" and I have seen more improvement with real life experience than you are proporting does not happen. to dismiss that is a cognitive distortion. A big part of treatment is patient education and allowing the patient to be empowered with choices. There are a lot of bad Dr's and treatments out there, ... Dr's do over promise results, and some patients are not good candidates for treatment and would do better to accept their scars (very very few - but a few cases). 
  • I choose to live in the present not the future or the past which is not healthy. 
  • I am not trying to sell anything or lead people on with "swelling." Look at the success stories if your a doubter.  50% is achievable if you keep a realistic mindset  that treatment is long and some magical scarless healing topical will not get rid of scars. But maybe scarless healing (projection) is better to protect those who cannot handle the struggle and journey of scar treatment.
  • Who Cares about how a baby heals scarless in the protected womb. A baby is not exposed ____ (everything I mentioned above that constantly bombards us and retards our health and well being). Younger adults heal better than older adults with scars (Aging has it's effects). I covered this all above in my post. They have stem cells currently from "babies" they do very little for anti-aging.
  • Sadly many acne scar snuffer's have very deep internal scars that they never deal with. As such Therapy is much more important than sometimes the physical treatments. Talkspace allows unlimited therapy though a smart phone if you need someone to support you and work through these deep internal wounds. Some would be better to accept their condition and give up treatment if it will cause them further anguish and harm. You just don't know the outcome of success until you get into this and physically see results over time. This is with any major surgery their is a % of success and a percentage of unmet expectations / failure. If I could save you the hurt, pain, and anguish I would - but the struggle is part of the healing. You can't coach someone who does not want to be helped or fix someone who thinks they are not broken.
  • When is good enough, good enough - that is the question.
  • Finally if it does not work and you have given a fighting chance, then perhaps just stop, therapy would be a better idea in that case. Please see the quoted box below about what acne scar cases suffer with, ... one of the biggest issues that are never treated in clinics.

@ScarRight I would like to hear your opinion, always good to hear rounded viewpoints.

 

@shei514
shei514 can obviously tell if her scars or worse or better than when she started. She has been nothing but transparent with her treatment. Allowed time to heal and observe changes, that are permanent. Is educated and has personal expedience now with some of the best Drs. the above poster is discounting her experience and limiting her potential (my opinion). I hope shi514 uses her intuition to do what is best for herself, not the cognitive outcome someone else wants for her. 
* Shei I want to encourage you and empower you to improve your scars, that is my only goal. I see so much potential for improvement. I am not talking about "Swelling."
* It's sad many who are here, ... God Forbid if they had something tough in their lives. They would simply give up. Cancer / Chemo. Burn Scars, Mobility issues. Of course this is not fun. I see mistakes in your treatment. I think the huuuuuuuuuuuuuge missing link here is unrealistic expectations (cover this in the mental quoted material below), and that it's a long jounrey. Shei's scars are severe, of course it's going to take longer to heal. I don't think laser alone will get you there. I analyzed and agave above what I see helping you as you state you "like the swelling" If a patient likes swelling post procedure, they will love volume from filler!
* I cannot change people's minds and heart, I can re-frame the conversation and give some "hope."
* I don't think anyone has to spend 20,000 NZ to be treated, I try to save people all the "crap" and provide things that really work. I help those also with zero income here. I feel far to often laser is just blasted over the patient with a huge bill built up and broken promises. Laser is for texture NOT to treat all scars. The patient may not even not have the same goals the Dr does. I have had patients happy from surgical methods alone (cut it out), ... that relies on how you heal big time.  Then there are those who are waiting for scarless healing 100% fantasy - because they have one large pore. 
* Anyone who is a scar suffer should wait at "least" 3 months after treatment to see the final outcome and let the swelling go down, this is common knowledge here not me selling you anything. 

...

Your not like anyone else on these forums. I cannot over-analyze every choice, health concern, and action done in your life. It all depends on how you heal. I Get your frustration.

No scar  case is  the same, we are not clones, one person could do a million procedures and not be you, your all different ages, ethnic backgrounds, healing capabilities, plans for treatment, outcomes, different surgeons (they treat differently as well), etc, we could go on and on. The point being is never compare yourself to someone else. Sure you can learn from their experience but do we really know every single detail about what was done and why - no.  If someone heals poorly or had a poor Dr they typically hang around here.

Goto a board certified Dr for help, ... if you want get 3 opinions and choose the one you like best. Your cases have nothing to do with each other or anyone else here, everyone is a individual with a different story.

It takes time to heal (this is a marathon and not a race, many do treatments every 3 months over 3 years time),... it's slow with lots of treatments. 

 

 

 

I want to stress that my post wasn't against you. Actually I do think highly of you and I think you know much more about scar treatments than most dermatologists out there. 

My post was just to say that sometimes no treatment can be better than "treatment at all cost" because the treatments many dermatologists advice us to do cost thousands of euro and provide very little or no result. I do agree with you that lasers don't work for scars (they work for skin texture) but if you go to an average dermatologist out there the first thing they propose you is getting some laser treatments at a very high cost. 

These "doctors" don't have our well being in mind but they only want to repay their investment they made in the laser machine. 

I started to treat acne scars back in 2006, it's now been 13 years. I spent around 30,000-35,000€ in treatments visiting the best doctors in Europe. I have very little results to show for it. My bank account instead is down a lot. That's why I say that in hindsight I'd have rather do nothing and have now 30,000€ more in my bank account than do what I did with no improvement. I don't want to discourage people when I tell them they can consider do nothing and wait....I just want for them to save money

As for scarless healing we have different opinions. I do believe scarless healing is possible, it's just not a well researched field of study. Human fetus have been proved to heal without any scars and for me that's a proof we, humans, can also achieve scarless healing. As far as I know, there are no products out there that utilize human (pluripotent) stem cells. Skin products utilize plant stem cells and of course it's a joke....it's just another scam to collect people's money. We'll see in the future, I don't digress further because I don't want to go OT in this topic

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15 hours ago, SimpleMutton said:

If I were you I'd save money and stop all treatments. They don't work and I can say this with confidence because I did all of them and with some of the best dermatologists in the world (suggested here). 

All they do is give you the impression they work during the first week or two (or more for subcision because swelling last more) but after the swelling goes down, the scars are the same as before. Maybe only the texture is a bit better, but that's it.....our bank account instead is down thousands of euros. 

Whoever suggest we can have 60+% improvements doesn't work in an ethical way in my opinion. 

 

I‘m so sorry, that you have to go trough this. I am on accutane and can not wait to start treating my acne scars. But the more i read on this forum, the more I think that there is no hope. I once was a happy girl, now I feel trapped in my own body. Maybe therapy would be a better option...

I wish you all the best and hope that you can find peace one day. 

ps: sorry for my English.. I am Swiss. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, acnescars2000 said:

I‘m so sorry, that you have to go trough this. I am on accutane and can not wait to start treating my acne scars. But the more i read on this forum, the more I think that there is no hope. I once was a happy girl, now I feel trapped in my own body. Maybe therapy would be a better option...

I wish you all the best and hope that you can find peace one day. 

ps: sorry for my English.. I am Swiss. 

I've also been on Accutane many years ago, it's definitely a great treatment to get rid of acne. That's a good start

As for scars treatment, it depends on the gravity of your case. 

I'm not overly pessimistic, I just tried the current scar treatments and they didn't work for me. I do believe in scarless healing (or something almost scarless) so I do have hope! It's just....they're not here yet

Best luck to you too!

Edited by SimpleMutton

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@acnescars2000 Please make your own post and I can help in related to your case. Same with a analysis of the failed treatments / why of @SimpleMutton if he or she wants.

@acnescars2000 Did you NOT read my posts above, ... and you say there is no hope based off of one person's opinion, sad. Do Your Research!!!!

Post Actuane scarring is the easiest to treat, why because the body heals naturally post Accutane (for a year after). Early scarring is easier to treat than ongoing older scars.

@SimpleMutton I am very frustrated today by the blowback this dialog will create..., exactly what I thought would happen ^ see above instance and times that times many responses to deal with (so many pm's :-(. I understand you say it was not against me. I have poured myself into helping here and it does feel like a attack on that, it's a never ending battle to help the hurting by lots of doubters. Posters do not understand the complexity of treatment - it's not simple nor is it universal. If they want simple or universal perhaps it's better if they do nothing. Instead they read that your treatment does not work and then think all treatment do not work - I discuss this above in great detail. It's a false equivalency. There are posters, some even children here, who have lost "hope"" because of this post. This is the biggest shame :smileys_n_people_40: and why Acne scars need to be dealt with also by a therapist, those are the deepest, hardest scar to treat. Cry's from help of harm-suicide-depression are a very real thing I have to deal with here. I do wish you well.

Filler, subcision, cross, microneedling, peels, and topicals (This does not cost $XX,XXX). Dr Rullan's package 1,200 X 8 treatments (max needed) + RF Needling $2K + 1.5K Laser = (13,000)+ $5K Deep peel (Optional) is not $22,000. Those Subcisions are excessive for many cases minus - $5K (total $8,000), laser is optional. Peeling and Needling at home is near free. One can treat over 3 or more years (Divide up the above cost - can be as cheap as a starbucks or haircut budget). This is affordable compared to any other surgery or major procedure. People spend more than $200 per month on entertainment and leisure choices often. Treat if it bugs you, if it does not invest in therapy - those internal scars are forever and more than superficial. 

There is HOPE!!!!!

Where I agree with you: (1) I sympathize you were taken advantage of (2) let's spread the message that laser is not the solution to treatment (3) As I see your location it was probably Chu who treated you, I don't not recommend him anymore, he is stuck in his ways, will not properly treat some scar types,  won't use the latest methods of treatment, and provides no aftercare, his colleague Anil does update his treatments. Acne scar treatment has evolved in the last few years as we found a combination of treatments that do work. (4) What does work,... the majority being manual methods and NOT energy devices alone. 

This is a complex topicI hope the reader can understand again I will put below:

 Your not like anyone else on these forums. I cannot over-analyze every choice, health concern, and action done in your life. It all depends on how you heal. I Get your frustration.

If some told you their surgery did not work would you refuse to get treated because you thought all surgeries don't work - that is the mindset we are dealing with here. Might as well not goto a derm to burn off a mole, or get a cancer removed. Research - before spending the $,$$$!!!!!!


No scar case is the same, we are not clones, one person could do a million procedures and not be you, your all different ages, ethnic backgrounds, healing capabilities, plans for treatment, outcomes, different surgeons (they treat differently as well), etc, we could go on and on. The point being is never compare yourself to someone else. Sure you can learn from their experience but do we really know every single detail about what was done and why - no.  If someone heals poorly or had a poor Dr they typically hang around here.

It can help a lot if you see a therapist because scars are not only external they also effect us internally. Talkspace offers a app for your smartphone to get unlimited therapy or you can see someone locally. Therapy is half of the battle that many struggle with.

Goto a board certified Dr for help, ... if you want get 3 opinions and choose the one you like best. Your cases have nothing to do with each other or anyone else here, everyone is a individual with a different story.

It takes time and heal (this is a marathon and not a race, many do treatments every 3 months over 3 years time),... it's slow with lots of treatments. 

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No one reading here whether that’s now or in the future should read through this post should give up hope. YES, I have spent THOUSANDS, but I have also met with a lot of bad doctors where money was wasted. You do not have to spend close to what I’ve spent. These forums exist so people like @beautifulambition can guide users in the direction of helpful doctors and treatments. This does not have to cost an arm and a leg, it really doesn’t. 

These treatments work. It’s really dangerous to compare yourself to anyone here, it makes no sense. We will all have a different journey here with our scar revision. 

I would not visit Dr Lim or Rullan if I thought I would get no improvement or the treatments didn’t work. My skin has improved significantly and sometimes I do not see it because there is still a long way to go for me. That’s why yesterday’s post was a little negative. Ultimately this is all worth it even the lows. I look back on my photos here and I’m amazed. Like I said, I have a long way to go, so I get frustrated, but please no one should give up hope, I’m living proof even if you have severe scarring, you are not doomed. Doctor’s cannot fix our mental issues, we have to find help with that. 

 

 

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i want to go to dr. rullan too. How are you doing after your latest treatment? Do you think phenol cross helped with making scars more shallow? 

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21 hours ago, acnescars2000 said:

i want to go to dr. rullan too. How are you doing after your latest treatment? Do you think phenol cross helped with making scars more shallow? 

I’m doing great, the swelling has gone down and I think the phenol cross has really helped my scarring. I haven’t ever tried this treatment before Dr Rullan and I’m excited for more treatments. I like the swelling and volume I get post treatment that’s why I’m going to consider filler but it’s a little expensive for me atm. It’s not that any one scar has disappeared but the overall texture is better (how much better I can’t say or judge right now). 

 

 

Photos attached are of my left cheek (IMO the worst scarring for me) I have some make up on these photos just to cover up the redness :-) 

 

4A84296A-30BC-4F82-B576-820062E4BD57.jpeg

BD0E4FCC-6F3B-40D8-8AFF-0671392589DF.jpeg

AFB4FBAB-ABE8-4D66-87F8-041F658128FF.jpeg

If these photos are helpful or anyone wants me to take more of these, I will! 

 

Right side of my face (no make up, taken outside). I have a lot of acne atm and it’s slowly healing. The more I think about the right side of my face, the more I think those two boxcar scars I have need to be excised. 

8F21AC66-09F2-47CF-977A-483982E4FA32.jpeg

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