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f93d

Subcision/cross progress - before/after

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Posted (edited)


Summary: This first post has been updated to include all updates. I will add new updates with a new post and update this first post.
Note: Dates and downtime estimates are approximate. Improvement estimates are unscientific. 

Baseline Photographs


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Image 1: Baseline photograph

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Image 2: Baseline photograph

Treatment #1: Early January, 2018 - Nokor Subcision, Phenol cross (Dr. Rullan)

Downtime: ~ 2 weeks (out in public after 1.5 weeks)
Visual Improvement: Negligible
Comments:
This phenol cross was much weaker than round 2 (peeled within 2 days vs 6 - 7 days). Although visual improvement was negligible, I could feel some areas lifted up as they were no longer tethered. Subcision worked great for jawline tethered scars.

Treatment #2: Mid February, 2018 - Nokor Subcision + Suction Method + Aspirin, Phenol cross (Dr. Rullan)

Downtime: 3.5 + weeks (out in public after 2.5 weeks), full downtime ~ 2 - 3 months
Visual Improvement: 15%
Comments:
The aspirin and suction significantly prolonged bruising. Aspirin was recommended by another doctor on youtube, taken daily 1 week prior to the procedure. This was the most effective treatment I’ve had up to this date, however the downtime is very long. One of the insertion points left a scar that eventually resolved.

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Image 3: 48 hour picture, swelling has died down significantly from day 1

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Image 4: Day 20, skin is swollen. Beware of suctioning incorrectly, otherwise it'll leave a circle mark that lasts a week

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Image 5: Day 30, skin is still swollen. You can see many of the scars coming back.

Treatment #3: Late April, 2018 - Infini (Dr. George)

Downtime: ~ 1.5 weeks (out in public after 5 days), 4 - 5 weeks to fully heal
Visual Improvement: Negligible
Comments:
Left a bunch of pinhole wounds that took 1 - 3 weeks to go away. Some wounds appeared to disappear only to reappear a week later and bleed. The skin is extremely tight for about 3 weeks. It made my skin feel sunken in and weak at the one-month mark. I do not think doing Infini at this stage of treatment was a good idea.

Treatment #4: Late June, 2018 - Sculptra 1 Vial + 0.3 vial HA Volbella Filler (Dr. Rullan)

Downtime: ~ 1 week for pigmentation issues (out in public after 3 days), chipmunk face ~ 3 - 4 weeks
Visual Improvement: 15%
Comments:
Sculptra is amazing and it fills in significant depressions. My skin felt terrible all the time (always wanted to touch it) prior to Sculptra. It’s as if Sculptra gave me my skin back. My skin felt plump rather than saggy. It is great for widespread superficial scarring (neck and jawline area) - it’s probably the only thing that has worked for it (these superficial scars aren’t captured well in the pictures).

The HA filler was injected at the temple and also slightly below the temple. You can see all the scars still, but it’s more level with the surrounding skin.

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Image 6: Right side 5 - 6 weeks after treatment #4

Treatment #5: Mid August, 2018 - Cannula Subcision, Phenol Cross, Micro Needling - Electric (Dr. Rullan)

Downtime: ~ 1 week (out in public after 6 days)
Visual Improvement: Negligible
Comments:
I feel like bruising is the reason we get significant improvement from subcision, but cannular subcision doesn’t result in much bruising. However cannular subcision has an advantage over Nokor subcision in that it can hit all scars in one treatment. Cannular subcision also only has 2 incision points, reducing the possibility of scarring. I will try suction and aspirin next time to see if I can prolong the bruising to reduce re-tethering.

Treatment #6: Mid September, 2018 – HA Volbella Filler 1 Vial (Dr. Rullan)

Downtime: ~ 1 week (out in public after 3 days), 2 – 3 weeks for pigmentation to resolve
Visual Improvement: 30%
Comments:
Filler delivered good results but it also had its side effects. My skin was very itchy for the first 1.5 months, and it looked unnatural and lumpy in certain angles. Image #7 shows the irritation (it’s red and towards the front of the face). The filler has constantly shifted since it was injected. Massaging lumps for 2 weeks made most of the lumps go away. There was the donut effect primarily on my right side for many scars, which tells me I may need another subcision or two. The filler worked better on my left sid. If the filler moved slightly off the scar (resulting in a mountain and valley), I would simply “push” it back over 1 week.

Treatment #7: Early October, 2018 – Infini (Dr. George)

Downtime: ~ 1.5 weeks (out in public after 5 days), 4 - 5 weeks to fully heal
Visual Improvement: 10%
Comments:
No improvement for the first month and a half. 

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Image 7: LED spotlight in darkroom - 4 weeks after Treatment #7

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Image 8: Florescent lighting, 2 months after Treatment #7. The improvements appear to be holding up, although some of the filler has dissipated and swelling has reduced since Image 7.

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Image 2: Baseline photograph

 

Edited by f93d
update

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Posted

I would love to see how your temples turned out.  They are my biggest concern ATM and I've been hesitating wayy too long to get my treatment. 

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Posted

Your skin will/should just get better,you heal for months.
:smileys_n_people_82:

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Posted

Was it expensive?

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Posted

Not expensive relative to laser treatments - I'd call in to get the quote. Dr. Rullan's office is open about their pricing model.

At this point one session of subcision + suction has shown probably equivalent improvement to all treatments I had in the past. Here's where I'm at with my right side around day 60. I made a mistake on my downtime - I didn't see that I was still quite bruised under certain lighting conditions; I was bruised to the cheek bone. Massaging it daily has helped and the real downtime was around 50 - 60 days. 

Below image shows where I'm currently at. I don't think this picture shows it, but my scarring has improved substantially, especially in the temples. The scars are all still there but a lot has flattened out. It didn't do anything for non-tethered scars.

I've an infini scheduled and will post every month or so. If someone can comment on whether or not I could benefit from another subcision, much appreciated. 

day60.png.4ccef4cd667185f34ccfa31f9105f2b6.png

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Posted

Are subcision and phenol cross done at the same time to the same scars?

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Posted (edited)

Lots of improvement, congrats! How long does it take to heal completely? Like as in how long do I have to wait before scheduling an interview with a job or say, a date  for the skin to look normal (no bruising etc). I have the same skin tone, etc

Edited by Scarredtodepression

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@Scarredtodepression Hi there, as I have mentioned many times on the board, healing times vary per person. They are not universal. He may be quick and you may be slower. I would use a concealer or something like dermablend to cover the bruised areas or a tinted moisturizer (yes guys use this too after medical procedures). After a few days you could go back to work and go out. Your just covering the treated area. I don't think most people would go on a Date directly after treatment as the body is slow to heal and we would not naturally look our best. You have to do a few treatments to gain the level of improvement you desire. 

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Posted
21 hours ago, labellavita1985 said:

Are subcision and phenol cross done at the same time to the same scars?

Phenol first, then subcision, same procedure. The phenol was as advertised, improved certain scars by maybe 15%, didn't make any scars larger. Will need several more. It has helped reduce some of the shallow, sharp border edges of certain scars.

 
3 hours ago, Scarredtodepression said:

Lots of improvement, congrats! How long does it take to heal completely? Like as in how long do I have to wait before scheduling an interview with a job or say, a date  for the skin to look normal (no bruising etc). I have the same skin tone, etc

I'd go with beautifulambition's rec of using make up. It takes forever to go away. 

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Posted

Great improvement, thanks for sharing.

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Posted
On 4/16/2018 at 7:19 AM, f93d said:

Below image shows where I'm currently at. I don't think this picture shows it, but my scarring has improved substantially, especially in the temples. The scars are all still there but a lot has flattened out. It didn't do anything for non-tethered scars.

I've an infini scheduled and will post every month or so. If someone can comment on whether or not I could benefit from another subcision, much appreciated.


Has it been 3 months yet since the last subcision? My view is that it's better to milk the cow to the last drop before getting another treatment, otherwise you just might mess up the milk flow. 

It appears that a few scars on your cheek are still relatively deep and you would be better off getting another subcision. You'll want to fill those pits as much as possible before switching to Infini, which doesn't do much for deeper scars. If you have the money, I also encourage you to get some dermal filler, at least for those deeper ones. Fillers can also stimulate collagen production.

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Posted

These improvements were definitely worth it, if you respond this well to treatment, i think youll be set after a few more. Thats awesome. Super jealous and happy for you!

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Posted (edited)

Is phenol cross the same as tca cross? Im having a hard time finding anything on phenol cross. Wit so you were bruised for about 60 days from a subcision??

Edited by Amp2695

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Posted (edited)

Great progress! Did you go to Dr. Rullan? 

 

Edited by cautiouslyhopeful

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On 4/28/2018 at 8:06 AM, Amp2695 said:

Is phenol cross the same as tca cross? Im having a hard time finding anything on phenol cross. Wit so you were bruised for about 60 days from a subcision??


It's supposed to have less adverse effects and produce better results. However I read that publication a while back and remember thinking the sample size was small. Originally I was scheduled for tca cross, however the doc was confident w/ phenol, so I agreed. 

For the bruising, I can still see a tint today on a portion of the right cheek; it mostly died out by day 60 but was still somewhat noticeable. From reading other subcision posts on this forum, it seems my bruising duration is on the upper end. 

--

I went ahead with an Infini treatment Thursday, 2.5 months from last treatment; downtime is looking like around 6 days.

Going forward I plan to wait 3 months and get subcision/cross followed by filler.

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58 minutes ago, f93d said:

It's supposed to have less adverse effects and produce better results. However I read that publication a while back and remember thinking the sample size was small. Originally I was scheduled for tca cross, however the doc was confident w/ phenol, so I agreed. 

For the bruising, I can still see a tint today on a portion of the right cheek; it mostly died out by day 60 but was still somewhat noticeable. From reading other subcision posts on this forum, it seems my bruising duration is on the upper end. 

--

I went ahead with an Infini treatment Thursday, 2.5 months from last treatment; downtime is looking like around 6 days.

Going forward I plan to wait 3 months and get subcision/cross followed by filler.
hmm I'm going to do more research on phenol cross, was there a % ? for example i had tca cross w 100% tca. 
yea 60 days of bruising is quite a lot. i remember getting an aggressive sub + a co2 back in 2014 in one day and i was all well a week later. hope you see awesome results from the sub tho. yea your plan sounds solid.
yea i had an infini rf about 1 month ago. (deepest at 2.5mm), i was swollen and red for about 1 week. Grid marks are still slightly visible. One or two burn marks also visible. still hopeful tho. Would you say the phenol cross did "fill in your ice picks" considerably or no?
Thanks bro

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Posted
@f93d   How would you describe the current state of your skin?  Is the improvement still holding mostly?  Those pics were impressive, but of course there was still swelling present.

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Don't give up on us. let us know what worked and what didn't. I understand sometimes people (myself included) can get very any and skeptical, etc. but its the nature of having these damn scars. 
Thanx ,man.

together united we can do great things (lol cheesy i know but true)

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Posted

update?

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On 6/4/2018 at 3:14 PM, Amp2695 said:

update?


Experience with Infini:
Final downtime was about 10 days, back out in public after several days. ~ 2 weeks later it seemed like many of the scars were more sunken in. Since then my skin has restored back to normal.

Temple improvement not as good as I originally saw - unfortunately it may have been long term swelling. Subcision bruise right side hasn't healed yet - still see a tint with a camera picture. Left side still has a brown mark from a subcision incision point. 

Overall I like the direction my skin is headed in. On my left side, I think sculptra and a few peels/cross for texture will achieve my desired results (large shallow pitting/volume loss + terrible texture).  On my right side I need to figure out how to fill those pits in. Subcision/suction helped significantly on the cheeks, the jaw/neck area, but not so much on the temples nor areas close to the mouth. Some scars have changed shape but visually do not look any better. Texture is slightly better but needs work. It's hard to gauge as some days the skin just looks worse than other days. I'm not sure the improvement is substantial enough that it'll show up on camera. Will see how the skin builds over the following months.

I'll update again in several months. Plan is to get sculptra, subcision + filler (right side only), RF needling, cross in no particular order but will start with a session of sculptra next week. I'm done with subcision/suction and will opt for HA filler instead; this will likely be my last subcision.

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Posted

Got pictures today. Had Sculptra 1 vial 5 - 6 weeks ago + 0.3 vials HA filler placed in temples.

I don't like these pictures but I do like the progress I see in the mirror. Still a long way to go.

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its hard to tell of the progress from these pics but i do understand that in person they are probably way better. How much % would you say you got? 

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4 minutes ago, Amp2695 said:

its hard to tell of the progress from these pics but i do understand that in person they are probably way better. How much % would you say you got? 


In this lighting condition (dark room + spotlight LED) little to no improvement. The problem with this lighting in my opinion is a shallow scar casts a deep shadow, just like a deep scar. 

In other lighting conditions like @ work in the bathroom (florescent), huge improvement - I was ecstatic after looking at it recently. I wish there was a better way to measure scar depth and size for the layman.

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Posted

Had cannula subcision, phenol, needling 2 weeks ago. It's unlikely I'll ever want nokor again; cannula subcision hits all the scars in one treatment rather than just certain areas, and I'm not bruised for months. Also only 2 incision points!

I figured a downtime timeline might help some people here plan their treatments around school or work, so here is mine. To those who are flying in for the procedure and flying out same day - :smileys_n_people_105: :smileys_n_people_9:. The face looks absolutely terrible right after treatment. The 24 hour picture, swelling has already reduced considerably.

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It may be early to post results but here's where I'm at. Same lighting, different angles.

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Best,





 

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Posted

Thanks for updating us -- you've had some great improvement, congrats!

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