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angelj

1st derm visit

hi im will finally be able to see a dermatologist for the first time next week (had to wait 5 months damn NHS! evil.gif ) in that time i have managed to clear my acne using a bp wash, but i have pih and uneven skintone left cry.gif .

i really want to get the best out of this visit as ive had to wait so long, and going private would be too expensive, so id like to know what sort of things should i be asking the derm? i generally want know what treatments i can have for the pih.

id like to know what other peoples experiences with dermatologists were? eusa_think.gif

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Congrats on finally getting to see your dermatologist ! smile.gif 5 months! Yikes! redface.gif That's long. I know from experience just how fustrating it can be waiting for your appointment to come around. First time I went to see my dermatologist it took 4 months and third time it took 2 months (maybe there is some truth in how NHS waiting times are coming down...hmmm). Anyways, for all the bitching that goes on about the NHS, at least its free and available to all, something I only really appreciated after reading on here how much people in the States spend on healthcare insurance).

I can't offer any specific advice on what type of treatments you can get for pih, as I don't know that much about the subject. What advice I can give you, in order to get the most out of your visit, is to question your dermatologist thoroughly to improve your own knowledge and understanding and make sure that your dermatologist listens to and understands what you tell him/her.

Firstly, make sure that your dermatologist fully understands what types of treatment you have had in the past, how successful these treatments were and any side-effects that you had from taking them. Explain your current pih and uneven skin tone problem to him/her and find out how knowledgeable he/she is about it. I say this because, when I visited my dermatologist, he didn't know what the pih marks on my face were, and instead asked me! Take it from me, just because he/she is a Dr., a consultant, a qualified professional, don't assume they know everything - some don't. Question your dermatologist - make him/her earn their money! By questioning them, it allows you to guage how competent they are, and for me, this is important in determining how assured I feel towards the quality of treatment I am receiving.

Also, question your dermatologist on the type of treatments available for to you for pih and find out how long the treatments last, how successful they are likely to be and what side-effects they cause. Question your dermatologist on what he/she thinks is the best treatment for you and find out why they think this. If you agree to a course of treatment, get your dermatologist to fully explain how it works i.e. if its a topical cream, when is it to be applied, how often and at what coverage?

I know some of these points might sound trivial, but from my experience, some GP's and consultants can be totally unprofessional in not properly listening to what you have told them about past treatment and can also prescribe you a course of treatment without properly explaining how it works, what to expect etc. This, I feel, is due to a combination of poor training/working practices and constraints on their time. On the issue of time, don't feel like you have to stick to however long your dermatologist sets aside for each consultation. From my own experience, GP's and consultants have a habit of trying to get you out of the door after an alloted time in order to see their next patient. Don't feel rushed. You waited damn long enough for your appointment, so you are entitled to take you time during it in order to get all your questions answered and to get the best treatment available to you!

Hope it goes well for you!

Good luck! smile.gif

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thank you very much for taking the time to me reply kid a, your advice has been a great help to me cool.gif .

On the issue of time, don't feel like you have to stick to however long your dermatologist sets aside for each consultation. From my own experience, GP's and consultants have a habit of trying to get you out of the door after an alloted time in order to see their next patient. Don't feel rushed. You waited damn long enough for your appointment,

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Guest OnlyJoe

hey jodie,

I have my first derm appointment coming up soon and i as hoping to be put onto tane straight away (long shot i know) but im hoping if i sit there, piss and moan about how craped up my life is,losing friends, girlfriends due to acne, and how ive tried, countless pescribed topical treatments, BP, B5, minocycline and tell her just how im totally pissing my education up the wall, she will give it to me... hopefully.

Was retin-a the main thing you were hoping for on your visit, or something else?

How bad currently is your acne/red marks? my acne is prolly Moderate/Severe border line, i get a cyst or two along my jaw line every 1-2 months and have 8-10 active pimples, not to mention countless red marks.

I have been going to my doctor about it for a year and asked to get refered to a derm about 2months ago.

Has anyone else had experiences where they have picked up the tane on the first visit.

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Guest OnlyJoe

Well i have moderate acne all over my cheeks and i get cysts rarely on my jawline... surely this is enough to be put on accutane.

And hopefully going on about the hard times, bad grades at university will only justify my point further. i dont wanna wait another 5monthsto go back... im pretty confident accutane is the only thing that can clear me up fully.

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Hey angel. Sorry your appointment didn't go the way you wanted to. I've had a lot of doctor's appointments like that. I know how bad it feels. I had to wait as long as you did. I'm in Canada and health care is the same.

I'm going to be asking for accutane, too, Joe. When's your appointment? Mine is on Tuesday.

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Guest OnlyJoe

I have to wait till January, in a weird way im hoping my face doesnt clear up before then. My face usually hits me in waves so i know it wont saty good. im hoping if i look like shit for my derm apointment she'll see its severe and perscribe it to me.

What type of things are you gonna tell your derm to try and convince them to pescribe the tane???

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I'll tell him that my family doctor recommended it. He had seen what my acne was like before he put me on mino.

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1st time i went to my derm was about 3 years ago..

he asked me to take accutane, my skin was very bad back then.

i wasnt sure what to do, nore did my dad, so my derm told me to think about it and he gave me aload of booklets on accutane and its affects. had to go back the following week to tell him what i had desided, i made up my mind not to accutane as i didnt like the sound of the side effects.

now 3 years on still with the same derm my acne has improved 80% smile.gif and its still gettin better. have to go see him again in february.

looking forward to it too biggrin.gif

p.s. the nhs is very slow

got to have an minor operation on both my legs in a few weeks, been waiting months for an appointment

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Guest OnlyJoe

Congrats adam, im glad to hear you found an alternative that seemed to work. i have already tried so much and im sure its simply gonna lead to one thing, accutane.

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Ok heres what ive been on, in no order....

Dalacin T - was on this for 6Months only worked for a sort time then my skin started getting worse

duac - Bp but not as good as dans in my view, dryed my skin out well too much (3months)

Retin-a - found this to make things worse for me (5months)

some sa washes and creams was also give (4months)

and the most effective thing was these pill, cant remmeber the name of them at the moment i cant find any left over boxes either, ill keep looking, i was on these from jan this year till aug and that cleared me up a hell of alot, but my derm said 'give your body a break from these, and if the acne starts getting worse you can go back on them' he told me just to use duac from then till the start of nov, and my skin had continued to improved so i have since not had to go back on the pill (i shall find out what its called it had antibiotics in it though) and im just using bp not the duac though im usin dans now, and its gettin slowly better.

i have used lots of other stuff just can not remmber.

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Guest OnlyJoe

I have been on two different types of topicals, the dalacin and zinerty(sp) made my skin clear for a while but my face was dry and flaky even after i moistrised.

Ive tried the B5 for 4months and that stopped working after a while.

Tried/currently BP not seeming to make to much improvement.

Minocycline, just finishing my 6month course now, still experiencing breakouts and have prlonged red marks (been told its a mino side-effect)

My GP wrote and suggested Roaccutane to the derm, so if all goes well i'll get on it, but derms descion is final, and im not buying that shit form the net!

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Guest OnlyJoe

Oh sorry for the confusion, i did say in my other post my first ever derm appointment is in january.. im just hoping to be put onto accutane straight away.

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Hi Angelj,

Sorry to hear that your visit to the dermatologist didn't go as you had wanted it to. sad.gif

Sorry to hear that your skin is causing you a lot of distress *hugs*

I know from experience just how pissed off and confused you must be feeling from the disappointing outcome of your dermatologist visit. When I last went to visit the dermatologist, just over a month ago, I left feeling utterly despondent as I felt he hadn't listened to me properly and didn't bother to discuss what options were available to me to treat my acne. Added to that, I felt he was very rude and unprofessional in his dealing with me and upon leaving his office, I walked over to the receptionist desk, explained to the receptionist that he had been rude and unprofessional, handed her the prescription for Differin that the dermatologist had given me telling her I didn't want it and then left. I felt dejected beyond words. In the 12 or so years that I have suffered from acne, that day was one of the worst I can remember. After years of unsuccessful trying to treat my acne with various antibiotics, Retin A and Roaccutanne, I had really hoped that this time the dermatologist would be able to prescribe me with an effective treatment. Anyway, after deciding against lodging an official complaint with the hospital against the dermatologist for his rude and unprofessional behaviour, I took it upon myself to take a positive stance and channel my energies into finding out a treatment that worked for me. A couple of days later, I stumbled upon the Acne.org site, and after using 5% BP cream and following Dan's regime for 6 weeks, I have experienced a 90% improvement in my acne! So when you say that the improvement you have seen in your skin has come about as a result of your own efforts and not with any help from medical professionals, I can totally relate to what you're saying! eusa_dance.gifsmile.gif

The advice I would give you with regards to the hyperpigmentation you have is to make an appointment and go and see your GP. You say that you used Retin A in the past and that it helped somewhat. If this is the case, and your acne is now under control using a BP wash, I don't see why you can't use it again, especially since Retin A, which speeds up the turnover of skin cell production, can help to clear skin hyperpigmentation. I would tell your GP that your visit to the dermatologist wasn't very productive, and that you would like to be prescribed Retin A gel since you have experience of using it and previously found it to be effective in reducing the hyperpigmentation you have (even if you didn't strictly experience this, just embellish the truth a little and make it sound good so that you get what you want! eusa_liar.gifeusa_whistle.gifeusa_whistle.gifsmile.gif). I wouldn't go buying Retin A off the internet eusa_hand.gif (not sure whether its legal to in the UK since its a prescription medication), as you don't know if you're buying a genuine approved branded version or a cheap unapproved generic copy which could do you more harm than good. Also, it will be expensive buying Retin A directly - better to try and get it through your GP. I would also talk to your GP and find out if he/she is able to recommend/prescribe you anything else to improve your hyperpigmentation. If you feel that you didn't receive satisfactory treatment and/or advice from your first dermatologist visit, tell your GP and get him/her to refer you to another dermatologist at another hospital. You are perfectly entitled to do this under the NHS, and have nothing to lose by getting a second opinion (although you will probably have to endure another long wait again before actually seeing the another dermatologist) evil.gifsad.gif.

I was interested to know what type of fade cream you are using for your hyperpigmentation? After clearing up most of my acne, I'm also left with a lot of marks that leave my skin appearance blotchy and uneven. Unfortunately, being darker-skinned, the hyperpigmentation is more prominent and I know from experience that my marks take a very long time to fade completely. I've just recently started applying apple cider vinegar to my marks in the hope of fading them faster, but haven't seen any visible improvement. How effective has your fade cream been? I was looking at using a fade cream, but some of them contain hydroquinoine, which is too strong for use on darker skin.

Anyway, sorry again to hear that your dermatologist didn't go well, but try not to be too down about it. I know how angry, frustrating and distressing it is, but try and refocus your efforts in finding a solution to your problem. I reckon, if, like me, you found a way of successfully treating your acne and clearing it all by yourself and without help from a doctor or dermatologist, you are certain to find a way of treating your hyperpigmentation! Stay strong and positive - there IS a solution and you WILL find it! eusa_dance.giflol.giftongue.gif

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Hi Angelj,

Sorry to hear that your visit to the dermatologist didn't go as you had wanted it to

Sorry to hear that your skin is causing you a lot of distress *hugs*

I know from experience just how pissed off and confused you must be feeling from the disappointing outcome of your dermatologist visit. When I last went to visit the dermatologist, just over a month ago, I left feeling utterly despondent as I felt he hadn't listened to me properly and didn't bother to discuss what options were available to me to treat my acne. Added to that, I felt he was very rude and unprofessional in his dealing with me and upon leaving his office, I walked over to the receptionist desk, explained to the receptionist that he had been rude and unprofessional, handed her the prescription for Differin that the dermatologist had given me telling her I didn't want it and then left. I felt dejected beyond words. In the 12 or so years that I have suffered from acne, that day was one of the worst I can remember. After years of unsuccessful trying to treat my acne with various antibiotics, Retin A and Roaccutanne, I had really hoped that this time the dermatologist would be able to prescribe me with an effective treatment. Anyway, after deciding against lodging an official complaint with the hospital against the dermatologist for his rude and unprofessional behaviour, I took it upon myself to take a positive stance and channel my energies into finding out a treatment that worked for me. A couple of days later, I stumbled upon the Acne.org site, and after using 5% BP cream and following Dan's regime for 6 weeks, I have experienced a 90% improvement in my acne! So when you say that the improvement you have seen in your skin has come about as a result of your own efforts and not with any help from medical professionals, I can totally relate to what you're saying! 

The advice I would give you with regards to the hyperpigmentation you have is to make an appointment and go and see your GP. You say that you used Retin A in the past and that it helped somewhat. If this is the case, and your acne is now under control using a BP wash, I don't see why you can't use it again, especially since Retin A, which speeds up the turnover of skin cell production, can help to clear skin hyperpigmentation. I would tell your GP that your visit to the dermatologist wasn't very productive, and that you would like to be prescribed Retin A gel since you have experience of using it and previously found it to be effective in reducing the hyperpigmentation you have (even if you didn't strictly experience this, just embellish the truth a little and make it sound good so that you get what you want!  eusa_liar.gif  eusa_whistle.gifsmile.gif). I wouldn't go buying Retin A off the internet  eusa_hand.gif (not sure whether its legal to in the UK since its a prescription medication), as you don't know if you're buying a genuine approved branded version or a cheap unapproved generic copy which could do you more harm than good. Also, it will be expensive buying Retin A directly - better to try and get it through your GP. I would also talk to your GP and find out if he/she is able to recommend/prescribe you anything else to improve your hyperpigmentation. If you feel that you didn't receive satisfactory treatment and/or advice from your first dermatologist visit, tell your GP and get him/her to refer you to another dermatologist at another hospital. You are perfectly entitled to do this under the NHS, and have nothing to lose by getting a second opinion (although you will probably have to endure another long wait again before actually seeing the another dermatologist)

I was interested to know what type of fade cream you are using for your hyperpigmentation? After clearing up most of my acne, I'm also left with a lot of marks that leave my skin appearance blotchy and uneven. Unfortunately, being darker-skinned, the hyperpigmentation is more prominent and I know from experience that my marks take a very long time to fade completely. I've just recently started applying apple cider vinegar to my marks in the hope of fading them faster, but haven't seen any visible improvement. How effective has your fade cream been? I was looking at using a fade cream, but some of them contain hydroquinoine, which is too strong for use on darker skin.

Anyway, sorry again to hear that your dermatologist didn't go well, but try not to be too down about it. I know how angry, frustrating and distressing it is, but try and refocus your efforts in finding a solution to your problem. I reckon, if, like me, you found a way of successfully treating your acne and clearing it all by yourself and without help from a doctor or dermatologist, you are certain to find a way of treating your hyperpigmentation! Stay strong and positive - there IS a solution and you WILL find it! 

hi sweety wub.gif

thank very much for ur advice, it nice to know someone can relate regarding these unsympathetic proffessionals. eusa_angel.gif

like i said although the derm was very nice, i just felt she didnt listern to me. i even said to her "as ive had to wait so long for this apointment ive been trying to think of what to say" she just said something about hydroquionoin, being to strong for me (and i dont wanna use that anyway) but felt she didnt really "listern", i had obviously waited 5 months to see her not because i wanted a pat on the back, i wanted pratacal help and answers to medical questions that i could not answer myself!

im sorry to hear u had such a bad experience with that derm mad.gif why didnt u complain?! we cant allow this bad behaviour cos they will just do it to someone else.

i had heard like you that bp was a good ingredient to stop breakouts (crappy clearisil et al does not work) i started using bp gel, like u but i was still getting spots.plus the gel was messy and smelly and bleached everything. i now use bp wash u should try it!! it works much better than the gel for some reason, and i dont get any spots now period. so use that as well as the gel, i.e u dont have to stop it if u are worried about it getting worse, and i think that would clear u compleatly.

i will phone the derm first , worth a try, then i do that gp thing. but i really dont think the gp will listern to me , he is a patronising f***. and i have already been refused retin a by a stand in doctor when mine was away, so think that may be on record. i think ur probably right about the internet retin a- but im still tempted, it s just such a long thing going to these stupid doctors eusa_wall.gif u do give the best advice though!

my skin is not that bad anymore as ive said, but the actual texture of my skin seems to have changed confused.gif and my skin tone is now uneven, i want to even it back out thats why a wanted the retin a. fade creams do not help with overall eveness in fact they make it worse. if i accidentally get the cream on somewhere i dont want to lighten that will get lighter too, so i have to be really carefull, i apply the cream using a cotton bud. the fade cream i use is called FADE OUT i use the extra care type in the blue box, the other has a brown box, u can get it from almost any chemist, boots etc. its very good but takes a very long time to work, if u use it consistantly it does work very well. make sure u use suncream or a moisturiser with spf15 to stop the pih getting dark again. i usually apply the fade out and leave it sitting on my face if im indoors. i rub it in with a cotton bud before i go to bed. this doesnt contain hydroquinoin it has kojic acid and is very effective so try it!

i feel ur dark skin pih pain cry.gif . i have dark skin and i scar so easily! ive managed to get my skin within the realms of "normality" with the fade cream, but im worried about using it long term. and in my past experience marks have can back inthe sun(yes even with factor 60 cry.gif ) try explaining how distressing pih in dark skin is to a white derm? mad.gif and that i dont see using an otc fade cream as a long term solution? rolleyes.gif

i will not wait to see another derm kid evil.gif ive got a sos appoint with the other derm.

i want to try a peel myself but im not sure what to do. i thought about acv an all that but that seems to weak for a deep pih problem?

dont hestitate to pm me if u have any problems kid

sorry for any spelling mistakes its 3:40 an this is the only chance i will get to reply cos of christmas an all that

if u have any more thoughts on acid peels or retin a please let me know cos im desperate!

i wish u all the best, i will update when i have more info, probably in the new year.

love jodie

p.s i had to take out a some of the emoticon cos it wouldnt let me use them!?!!!

i was more expressive

Edited by angelj

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Hi Jodie,

like i said although the derm was very nice, i just felt she didnt listern to me. i even said to her "as ive had to wait so long for this apointment ive been trying to think of what to say" she just said something about hydroquionoin, being to strong for me (and i dont wanna use that anyway) but felt she didnt really "listern", i had obviously waited 5 months to see her not because i wanted a pat on the back, i wanted pratacal help and answers to medical questions that i could not answer myself!

*sigh* I know exactly how you feel. It's fustrating, annoying and disheartening. I believe that a lot of patients don't get the correct treatment from their doctor, dermatologist etc. simply because the medicial practitioner has poor listening skills and isn't 'patient focused' in their approach.

i now use bp wash u should try it!! it works much better than the gel for some reason, and i dont get any spots now period. so use that as well as the gel, i.e u dont have to stop it if u are worried about it getting worse, and i think that would clear u compleatly.else.

Hmmm eusa_think.gif , I might give it a try- thanks for the advice! At the moment I'm pretty happy using BP cream as I've seen really good results with it (nearly 100% clear!!!), however, applying the cream is somewhat messy, so I may switch to using a BP wash in the future.

i will phone the derm first , worth a try, then i do that gp thing. but i really dont think the gp will listern to me , he is a patronising f***. and i have already been refused retin a by a stand in doctor when mine was away, so think that may be on record. i think ur probably right about the internet retin a- but im still tempted, it s just such a long thing going to these stupid doctors

Grrrr, mad.gif I really hate doctor's that are patronising! They need a good bitch-slapping if you ask me! tongue.gif I still reckon its worth an effort making an appointment to see your GP to try and get him to prescribe you Retin A. Why did the stand in doctor refuse you Retin A when you saw him? If you don't think your GP is likely to prescribe you Retin A, can you go to see another doctor in your local GP practice surgery? Alternatively, if you don't feel that your GP is any good, I recommend changing your GP. Its pretty easy to do and your perfectly entitled to do this under the NHS. Just go to the NHS website and type in your postcode into the GP finder page and you'll get a list of GP practices near to you. Choose one and then just take your NHS registration card to that surgery and they will register you as a patient there. You should be able to make an appointment to see a GP within a day or so of first registering - simple!

my skin is not that bad anymore as ive said, but the actual texture of my skin seems to have changed

Have you tried using the egg white/lemon juice face mask that Delna has posted details of in the red marks forum??? A lot of people have reported back that they've seen an improvement in the texture of their skin as a result of using this mask. Check it out and see if it helps!

the fade cream i use is called FADE OUT i use the extra care type in the blue box, the other has a brown box, u can get it from almost any chemist, boots etc......this doesnt contain hydroquinoin it has kojic acid and is very effective so try it!

Thanks for the info! lol.gif Sounds like it could be useful for me, although at the moment I want to concentrate on staying clear and see if I can fade my marks using apple cider vinegar as I don't want to use too many chemical products on my skin. I'll give the ACV a try for a month or so, and if I don't see any real improvement in my hyperpigmentation, then I'll try the Fade Out cream.

i feel ur dark skin pih pain  cry.gif  . i have dark skin and i scar so easily!  i have dark skin and i scar so easily! ive managed to get my skin within the realms of "normality" with the fade cream, but im worried about using it long term. and in my past experience marks have can back inthe sun(yes even with factor 60 cry.gif  ) try explaining how distressing pih in dark skin is to a white derm?  and that i dont see using an otc fade cream as a long term solution?  rolleyes.gif 

Yeah, having dark skin and dealing with scars sucks big time! sad.gif Hmmm idea.gif your comment about a white dermatologist understanding the problem of pih in dark skin (which I totally agree with) has got me thinking....I wonder if there are any good Asian or Black dermatologists in London. Surely they would have a greater appreciation of the problem and would therefore be able to offer better advice/treatment as a result. I might look into this. Let you know if I find anything.

sorry for any spelling mistakes its 3:40 an this is the only chance i will get to reply cos of christmas an all that

if u have any more thoughts on acid peels or retin a please let me know cos im desperate!

i wish u all the best, i will update when i have more info, probably in the new year.

Don't worry, I won't deduct any points for your spelling! tongue.gif 3:40am.....guess you're a night owl like me smile.gif I should seriously sort out my sleeping patterns....not doing me any good eusa_shifty.gifwacko.gif

Hope you have a great Christmas and New Year! biggrin.gif Try not to worry too much about your skin - don't let it put you off enjoying the festive period.

Take care wub.gif

P.S. LOL - I had the same problem as you with the emoticons!!!!! There is a limit to the number you can have in any single post!

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hi kid!

i havnt been able to get in contact with my derm as yet, cos of holidays, but i will call next week when weekdays go back to normal.

i hope u had a nice christams! wub.gif ive had time to think since i last wrote on here and i really thought about what you said; its cos these so-called professionals are so unhelpful that i been driven to find a solution for myself and i really think i may be able to figure this out for myself. eusa_pray.gif

i really glad to hear your almost clear by the way eusa_clap.gif though i do know its only half the battle where marks are concerned.

I still reckon its worth an effort making an appointment to see your GP to try and get him to prescribe you Retin A. Why did the stand in doctor refuse you Retin A when you saw him? If you don't think your GP is likely to prescribe you Retin A, can you go to see another doctor in your local GP practice surgery? Alternatively, if you don't feel that your GP is any good, I recommend changing your GP. Its pretty easy to do and your perfectly entitled to do this under the NHS. Just go to the NHS website and type in your postcode into the GP finder page and you'll get a list of GP practices near to you. Choose one and then just take your NHS registration card to that surgery and they will register you as a patient there. You should be able to make an appointment to see a GP within a day or so of first registering - simple!

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angelj,

I'm sorry you were disappointed with your derm visit after waiting so long to get it! I understand how frustrating some dermatologists can be. My first visit was when I was 14 or 15 (19 now)and I was also prescribed Retin-a but it turned out to be too much for me. If anything touched my face it burned so much I felt like crying but my derm insisted I stick with it and refused to give me anything else to try. rolleyes.gif He also kept insisting the burning would go away (it didn't.. and I did give it time). My face was red and flaking and burning and when I went back for the third (and last!) visit he had the nerve to tell me I looked so much better and if I couldn't see the difference something was wrong with me. My dad was with me and the derm made me leave the room so he could tell my dad I had BDD shock.gif I was so mad and hurt because my dad believed him since he was a doctor. Luckily my mom could tell it wasn't in my head and the derm was just an unsympathetic jerk who most likely never suffered from acne and wouldn't listen to me when I tried to explain the psychological effects it was having on me. The man was unbelievable, really. When I asked him if there was anything I could do for my red marks he would swear he didn't understand what I was talking about and did not see any red marks at all eusa_eh.gif (he said this while grabbing my chin and moving my head around and looking at me very dramatically.. ugh!) He was just terrible. It would take me all day to list all of the bad things he did, so I had better stop now wink.gif This was supposed to be short, oops! Anyway, I sincerely hope you have better luck with your next visit! I know how hard they can be. Good luck!

I was posting to ask you what brand of 10% bp wash that you use. I'll go to the drugstore and look later but I wondered if you had a suggestion since that is what you use now. Oxy maximum strength is the only one I know of off the top of my head. Did you ever use the cream or gel bp? And if so do you notice that the 10% wash dries your skin more (or less) than the 2.5% that you rub on? Or is there a difference at all?

I've been using OTS and was completely clear until I went to Ohio for Christmas vacation. I *always* break out when I go to Ohio no matter what time of year or what I do to prevent it, but even though I knew this I stopped my regimen while I was there and am back to where I was before. eusa_doh.gifeusa_wall.gif But if I could use a wash and it ended up being just as effective that would be great! Rubbing that cream in can get messy and ruin clothes if I'm not careful.

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