I am in the same exact boat and i've basically narrowed it down to these two. The way I look at it is I will be using it as a 1/2 vacation 1/2 treatment.

This is what i've gathered so far.

Rullan - Excellent choice for only subcision. From what i'veresearched his price/performance ratio can't be beat. I'm not sure how well he does fillers (my guess is well but I can't say for certain).

Novick NYC office - If you have the money I don't think you will find a better doctor in the world. I spoke to him on the phone and he sounds as genuine/experienced as it gets. He's been doing subcision for something like 20-30 years. I think for filler+subcision he is top of the line and will only give you quality treatment.

Novick Israel office- When I spoke to him on the phone he mentioned that I could go to his Israel office and get the procedure done for like 1/3 of the price or something. You just have to correlate when he will be there.

Right now I'm basically weighing the three options like this.

Price of flight will be similar to both california and Israel. My guess is round trip to Israel (skyscanner) will be like 500-600$. Round trip to Cali will be like 350-550.

I'd say either Rullan or Novicks Israeli office will cost about the same when all is said and done. It really depends on if you want to make a small vacation out of it.

If you are only going for subcision I would probably choose rullan.

There is also the option of just going to Novick in NYC for convenience. It might not even be that more expensive as you will have to include flight,food,hotel, and transportation at the two other locations.

Every time I think about it I change my mind.

^Yep. I have the same quandary.

I'm wary of fillers. I've had three sessions of spot filling since 2004 and ending in 2013. You can see the result in my thread.

Of course Dr. Novick wants to fill my cheeks broadly, not just each dent and prior to that a light subcision.

Dr. Rullan will subcise my entire face and then I'd rely on my own body's collagen to refill my dents.

I'm leaning towards Dr. Rullan.

@Urbanite

Appreciate it, just checked out your thread. Did you get pricing from Novick by any chance?

At this point it's either Novick or Rullan for me and it's so hard to make a decision. Have you had any subcision in the past?

40 minutes ago, Urbanite said:

^Yep. I have the same quandary.

I'm wary of fillers. I've had three sessions of spot filling since 2004 and ending in 2013. You can see the result in my thread.

Of course Dr. Novick wants to fill my cheeks broadly, not just each dent and prior to that a light subcision.

Dr. Rullan will subcise my entire face and then I'd rely on my own body's collagen to refill my dents.

I'm leaning towards Dr. Rullan.

I didn't realize your body's own collagen could fill in the blanks left by the subcision. If that's true, then Dr. Rullan's method seems a little more long term.

35 minutes ago, ailaeshiz said:

1 hour ago, Urbanite said:

^Yep. I have the same quandary.

I'm wary of fillers. I've had three sessions of spot filling since 2004 and ending in 2013. You can see the result in my thread.

Of course Dr. Novick wants to fill my cheeks broadly, not just each dent and prior to that a light subcision.

Dr. Rullan will subcise my entire face and then I'd rely on my own body's collagen to refill my dents.

I'm leaning towards Dr. Rullan.

I didn't realize your body's own collagen could fill in the blanks left by the subcision. If that's true, then Dr. Rullan's method seems a little more long term.

From what I understand your body will produce collagen to fill in the space left by subcision, but if you don't get filler you have to suction or the scars will just retether. I recently went to Novick and had subcision with filler on two scars and he said that the filler wasn't so much to fill in the scars but to stimulate my own collagen production. So from what I understand the filler kinda serves two purposes to keep the scar from retethering and to stimulate collagen production. I'm pretty new to all this and I'm only 5 days out from my first subcision so I guess time will tell if it works for me.

1) I did get pricing from Dr. Novick. His individual subcising pricing simply cannot match Dr. Rullans. However, their treatments are like comparing an apple and an orange. For me Dr. Novick wanted "light" subcision of both cheeks and then generalized Voluma filler. After 6 weeks or morehe wanted to see what dents were still deep/visible and those he'd individually subcise. Dr. Rullan wants to "heavily" subcise my whole face and then microneedle -- same session. I said NO microneedling.

2) Dr. Novick was emphatic that even with his "light" subcision the dents would not retether and that the filler was only for "best effect" to plump up the dents by "bio stimulating" my own fat cells/collagen, which would enhance the efforts of the subsurface blood.

There is some misunderstanding here, this is why I don't like the one size fits all posts. It's about your individual scars not some subcision treatment, ...

It will take many things not just subcision to give you some percentage of improvement. Urbanites scars (he can post pictures here for you to compare) are not like those who have pitted acne scars ( pitted means more than a pencil eraser in depth, his are also very wide from what I have seen hence Novick trying to Augment not spot treat), they are on the surface. Thus how can filler work for individual spot treatment, it would create bumps if it wasn't a cheek wide augmentation. OF course the body "can" produce collagen, if it is cut. But it also can re-tether and does so quite readily in the process of subcision (your back to where you started). Filler allows a spacer so the body can heal without these tethers (any filler is a bio-stimulant) . So the question should be what type of scarring do you have and what treatment(s) do you need. If your majorly fat deficient you will need even more filler to correct the depressions in the skin regardless of subcision (augmentation, and spot correction).

As we age to compound the problem it makes the acne scars look worse (we look older) and we loose fat and bone naturally. Filler is the solution to this issue and some might need to do it yearly for life depending on the severity and how you heal. That's another piece, how you heal is different than everyone else. One may not need filler and just do subcisions, others need filler, and others don't have the money for filler so they do suction which is variable. That never worked for me and many others, it re-tethered, so we went the filler route. You can always start with suction, see how you heal and do filler latter on, remember you will need several subcisions.

Many get subcision whenever they top up their filler and they can afford it. We get haircuts right and buy coffee and massages, so why not top up the filler (save your money for a yearly thing), your body won't stop wasting with age. Permanent filler is a option with a track record of enjoying the results of filler but I DO NOT suggest it until you have tried HA filler (naturally found in the body several times - it can be dissolved unlike permanent with any issue).

I think there is a misunderstanding of Rullan vs Novick's cost, ....

Novick includes the cost of filler with sub (this is his normal thing he uses). Filler can be expensive (if not saved for throughout the year) thus the price difference. Travel expenses make the price equal, as I have said many times and someone else mentioned, hotel/food/flight/extras for care/sight seeing add up to the same cost of doing it locally. Also time is money and being able to go home quickly and recover is much better than being father away from that comfort and having things around you to make that easier. We have many other doctors besides Novick and Rullan, they are just mentioned a bunch here, I made the faq (first post of the acne scar sub with all this). They all do subcision just as good if they are closer to your location. I would not fly for anything besides surgery / subcision. One can get Infini done locally or even their filler topped up after subcision, peels, etc.

I was pretty clear on cost regarding subcison. I got a quote from Rullan and a quote from Novick on his cost to subcise per scar.

Rullan's cost was for the entire face was reasonable. To only subcise with Novick I'd need to dig deep into my financesgiven the amount of scars I have.

Now if we are talking Novicks "light" subcision with no filler, then he might be in line with Rullan in terms of cost.

If Novick thinks the filler helps to prevent retethering, he won't admit it out loud, at least he wouldn'twith me.

Thanks for the replies guys, going to go see Novick.

Does he do financing? Ide rather make payments then fork up money upfront imo. Is subscision really needed though? I have lil craters, maybe need about 8 filled, but will a subscision prior to filler really make a difference?

Does TCA cross work well for icepicks or should I just learn to deal with it?

ill post pics and how much he is going to charge me, I wont be a dweeb and keep it a hidden secret like other members of this forum. Lol. I rather help the community/public than a business.

@TrranceContact Novick haha ;-P This is what Credit C.... were made for and there is always care credit, health savings accounts (tax free), savings accounts. Goto Israel if you have the time 1/3 the cost of NYC.

Yes you need subcision, again filler is completely optional but helps many people get the outcome they want, speak to Novick he does phone / video consults.

Yes TCA Cross works for icepicks, it takes time, it will be red and you can dab some dermablend medical makeup (macys /nordstr) or concealer over them, it lifts the scar bed. Talk to Novick, he does this.

I think Rullan is overrated with subcision. He has the experience but doesnt take precautions to ensure the best results. You can get good package deals with him though. And if you continue to return, he will charge you less. I think I paid under $1500 for 4 subcisions from him for moderate scarring but that was years ago.

I edited my last post. The phrase 'home equity line of credit" was only meant to illustrate that for me the cost would rise into the thousands for subcision of all of my scars with Novick. I have many dents.

And that's why following the example of others I don't want to give out pricing.Cost really is based upon each individual's case.

@Urbanitewhich doctor did you decide to go with in the end? Would love to hear about your results!