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Frenchscar

Do single needle can cut the fibrous band under the scar ?

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I know that subcision can 
and to realize this,you have to cut horizontally the fibrous band
so it's possible with single needle if you use it a lot ?

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I wouldnt think many here if any,would encourage at home subsicion.

even intentionaly stabbing a needle into a scar and waggling it around isnt domething i would recommend,horizontaly or verticaly.
:)

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Subcision should always be done by a professional only.

If you want to try a treatment yourself using needling then I would recommend using a DermaPen. It utilizes more needles in many cases and penetrates vertically in and out quickly without moving around inside the skin such as the case with dermarolling. For scar tissue you can try anywhere from a 1mm - 1.5mm needle depth and would recommend that anything higher than a 2mm should absolutely be done by a professional only. Don't needle any sooner than 10 days. Give at least 10 days between each treatment and you can even go longer to say 12-14 days between treatments. Research the proper way to use a DermaPen and all of the prepping that should be done as well as post-treatment instructions such as avoiding sun exposure, water, etc... for 24 hours.

I've had great improvement personally and have seen others turn out with great results as well.

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22 minutes ago, Tano1 said:

Subcision should always be done by a professional only.

If you want to try a treatment yourself using needling then I would recommend using a DermaPen. It utilizes more needles in many cases and penetrates vertically in and out quickly without moving around inside the skin such as the case with dermarolling. For scar tissue you can try anywhere from a 1mm - 1.5mm needle depth and would recommend that anything higher than a 2mm should absolutely be done by a professional only. Don't needle any sooner than 10 days. Give at least 10 days between each treatment and you can even go longer to say 12-14 days between treatments. Research the proper way to use a DermaPen and all of the prepping that should be done as well as post-treatment instructions such as avoiding sun exposure, water, etc... for 24 hours.

I've had great improvement personally and have seen others turn out with great results as well.


Hi my friend :)
Since how many time did you used needling ? can you estimate the pourcentage of improvement ?
I don't talk about subscision but about single needling at horizontal and not at vertical

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7 minutes ago, Frenchscar said:

Hi my friend :)
Since how many time did you used needling ? can you estimate the pourcentage of improvement ?
I don't talk about subscision but about single needling at horizontal and not at vertical


I have been needling for almost 6 months now and have seen at least a 50% improvement. I am hoping I can reach around 80-90% improvement at around 1 year.

I would not move anything around inside your skin whether vertical or horizontal as you could end up worsening your current condition. That is why you have to go see a professional to get those types of treatments done. They understand how it's supposed to feel from experience and where they should poke around to break up scar tissue. If you tried to do something like that yourself, you could end up seriously damaging the current state of your skin.

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yes i know but it's very expensive 

I do needling since 2 months and i don't see anything,do you think that's normal ?
I have rolling scar,is the same for you ?

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17 minutes ago, Frenchscar said:

yes i know but it's very expensive 

I do needling since 2 months and i don't see anything,do you think that's normal ?
I have rolling scar,is the same for you ?


You have to explain in detail how you needled during those 2 months. Such as:

How often did you needle per month?

What did you use to needle with?

What was the needle depth used to penetrate the skin?

Did you avoid sun exposure, water, and sweating for 24 hours after treatment?

Did you apply any topical after treatment? If so, when?

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I needle every 3 week,i use dermastamp 1.5mm,yes i avoid sun exposure and no i don't apply any topical but now i start with bleaching creme (depiwhite advanced)

at 2 mont,you notice some improvement ?

for me it's difficult to say

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This site is all about helping others, I think it's great that that Tano1 and Quadboy have tried to do this with you. I have spent a few hours trying to help you both publicly and privately. You ask for expert scar advice and I gave the OP recommendations that others in the Acne Scar revision field also agreed with. If you don't agree with these recommendations I suggest you consult professionals for free (try realself.com and ask doctors their for their advice on your scars).

Background

  • The OP is a student in France with limited funds.
  • The OP has many box cars (Surface pits - fibrotic) all over his cheeks and icepicks. He has ethnic skin and is sensitive to treatments talking about redness and hyperpigmentation.
  • He states he tried traditional microneedling as was stated above with no results, but some side effects.
  • He is researching Owndoc which is risky as many people give advice on DIY treatments that are both dangerous and don't work well. Subcision should be handled by a doctor (derm or plastic), they have years of experience in this and the skills to make sure it works right and you don't shred up your skin like ground meat. We don't do our own surgeries and face lifts. 
    • The people on owndoc unmoderated forums used a quasi type of subcision with a lancet (diabetic needle for the finger  - lookup "diabetic lancet"). If the op wishes to take full responsibility goto ebay and look a the needles there. We cannot help you harm yourself, that would be sad and potentially make things worse. There are some lies on Owndoc and questionable pics (photoshop) of 100% improvement using both this and microneedling (some of these pics are used all over the internet. If scarring was so easy we would all buy a microneedle and be done (it takes multiple modalities depending on yours scar type). As told to the OP who has numerous questions to find shortcuts or get instant 50% of improvement from one treatment, I am sorry scar treatment is expensive. In the USA we must pay out of pocket, many other societies in Europe have assistance for scarring (have you tried to go through France's healthcare OP)... It takes several treatments to get that 50% improvement. I know money is a issue and I suggested the OP save up for a yearly subcision, he even has contacted a doctor and does not like his prices which are quite cheap (I understand he is a student). 
  • I recommended NOKOR (the type of need the doctor uses subcision), and Infini RF to deal with the box cars.
  • TCA Cross should be used for the icepicks.
  • After he deals with the pits he can do a sedated TCA peel or many medium strength peels using the whitening cream and retin a to preven hyperpigmentation before and after his treatments. This will deal with surface texture.
  • If there is any pencil eraser depth pits filler can be used with subcision to act as a spacer
  • IF the OP wishes to do DIY (Cheap at home treatments), it was suggested to do retin a / tretinorin cream, tca cross (all instructions are in the faq (top post of the scar sub forum under -tca peels) and continue to microneedle (dermastamping is cheaper and better) but will not give the results of a professional treatment such as Infini RF or fractional laser on fibrotic scars.


I am sorry there seems to be some miscommunication or a language barrier, perhaps the op does not like my advice and that is fine to seek it from others (I am happy for the community here), I just wanted to give some background to these posts that appear daily wishing for other results or tricks. Thank you everyone for your help. Try ebay for needles look up needles (you are fully responsible for how you use them and we worry for your care and well being, it can actually make things worse).

BA

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1 hour ago, beautifulambition said:

This site is all about helping others, I think it's great that that Tano1 and Quadboy have tried to do this with you. I have spent a few hours trying to help you both publicly and privately. You ask for expert scar advice and I gave the OP recommendations that others in the Acne Scar revision field also agreed with. If you don't agree with these recommendations I suggest you consult professionals for free (try realself.com and ask doctors their for their advice on your scars).

Background

  • The OP is a student in France with limited funds.
  • The OP has many box cars (Surface pits - fibrotic) all over his cheeks and icepicks. He has ethnic skin and is sensitive to treatments talking about redness and hyperpigmentation.
  • He states he tried traditional microneedling as was stated above with no results, but some side effects.
  • He is researching Owndoc which is risky as many people give advice on DIY treatments that are both dangerous and don't work well. Subcision should be handled by a doctor (derm or plastic), they have years of experience in this and the skills to make sure it works right and you don't shred up your skin like ground meat. We don't do our own surgeries and face lifts. 
    • The people on owndoc unmoderated forums used a quasi type of subcision with a lancet (diabetic needle for the finger - lookup "diabetic lancet"). If the op wishes to take full responsibility goto ebay and look a the needles there. We cannot help you harm yourself, that would be sad and potentially make things worse. There are some lies on Owndoc and questionable pics (photoshop) of 100% improvement using both this and microneedling (some of these pics are used all over the internet. If scarring was so easy we would all buy a microneedle and be done (it takes multiple modalities depending on yours scar type). As told to the OP who has numerous questions to find shortcuts or get instant 50% of improvement from one treatment, I am sorry scar treatment is expensive. In the USA we must pay out of pocket, many other societies in Europe have assistance for scarring (have you tried to go through France's healthcare OP)... It takes several treatments to get that 50% improvement. I know money is a issue and I suggested the OP save up for a yearly subcision, he even has contacted a doctor and does not like his prices which are quite cheap (I understand he is a student). 
  • I recommended NOKOR (the type of need the doctor uses subcision), and Infini RF to deal with the box cars.
  • TCA Cross should be used for the icepicks.
  • After he deals with the pits he can do a sedated TCA peel or many medium strength peels using the whitening cream and retin a to preven hyperpigmentation before and after his treatments. This will deal with surface texture.
  • If there is any pencil eraser depth pits filler can be used with subcision to act as a spacer
  • IF the OP wishes to do DIY (Cheap at home treatments), it was suggested to do retin a / tretinorin cream, tca cross (all instructions are in the faq (top post of the scar sub forum under -tca peels) and continue to microneedle (dermastamping is cheaper and better) but will not give the results of a professional treatment such as Infini RF or fractional laser on fibrotic scars.


I am sorry there seems to be some miscommunication or a language barrier, perhaps the op does not like my advice and that is fine to seek it from others (I am happy for the community here), I just wanted to give some background to these posts that appear daily wishing for other results or tricks. Thank you everyone for your help. Try ebay for needles look up needles (you are fully responsible for how you use them and we worry for your care and well being, it can actually make things worse).

BA

I just want to have opinion from other person,that's it
i have nothing against you

What ? Before owndoc sold needle for subscision ?  you talk about this : http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?singleneedles-pid172.html

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38 minutes ago, Frenchscar said:

I just want to have opinion from other person,that's it
i have nothing against you

What ? Before owndoc sold needle for subscision ?  you talk about this : http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?singleneedles-pid172.html
Those are for single needling scars (vertically) just like dermastamp but with only one needle. I would never try subcision on myself. Hell I'm going to a very experienced Doc and I'm still nervous something might go wrong.  I mean do whatever u want. It's your face, but do you really want to risk making your situation worse just to save some money?

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18 minutes ago, Horus said:
41 minutes ago, Frenchscar said:

I just want to have opinion from other person,that's it
i have nothing against you

What ? Before owndoc sold needle for subscision ?  you talk about this : http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?singleneedles-pid172.html
Those are for single needling scars (vertically) just like dermastamp but with only one needle. I would never try subcision on myself. Hell I'm going to a very experienced Doc and I'm still nervous something might go wrong.  I mean do whatever u want. It's your face, but do you really want to risk making your situation worse just to save some money?

yes i know but you can use it horizontally 
i don't talk about subscision
but according to the link there are a problem with this product ?

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OP just buy the product since you think it's right, ... why ask us? You need to determine what is best for yourself. Your determined it will work so give it a try and it's cheap and fits your budget ...  it's a diabetic lancet as I said above, ... this is not subcision and you have many fibrotic boxcar scars. But sure try, if you wish :-)

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36 minutes ago, Frenchscar said:

yes i know but you can use it horizontally 
i don't talk about subscision
but according to the link there are a problem with this product ?
Yes, it says in the description that it is a bad batch and they bend very easily or may even be useless. If thats in the description of the product i don't think I would buy it. I'm not sure what the point of needling horizontally would be. I've heard of people single needling at angles but not horizontally. But I am no expert I've just begun my journey to improving my scars, and I come here just like you to get advice from people who know much more than me and have tried all these things (like BA) It is nice to have a place to get advice from people who have experience. But just because you get advice that you don't want to hear doesn't mean that it's bad advice. I understand that you want a cheap quick fix for your scars (I think we all do) but unfortunately that's not realistic. Anyway whatever u decide to do. Be careful man. :)

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7 hours ago, Frenchscar said:

I needle every 3 week,i use dermastamp 1.5mm,yes i avoid sun exposure and no i don't apply any topical but now i start with bleaching creme (depiwhite advanced)

at 2 mont,you notice some improvement ?

for me it's difficult to say


You can definitely do it twice a month. Instead of waiting every 3 weeks you can do it a little sooner such as every 10-12 days for 1.5mm. Why are you using bleaching cream? Is your scar hyperpigmented? If it is then needling can also help with that. If after awhile your scar improved but it's still darker/red in color and hasn't whitened, then you could maybe do Mederma as it lightens the skin. Take into consideration though that a scar does lighten by itself over time. So using such creams should only be considered after your scar has fully matured which can take a year or even a bit longer. What you can use instead of a bleaching cream is hyarulonic acid immediately post-op needling treatment. What it does is suck in moisture into your wounds and that's an absolute must for healthy skin and even for a better scar appearance. 

This is a treatment that can take some time. If you think about it, you're not even doing the treatment very often. If you follow my method, you will still only be treating yourself twice a month. Stick with it for at least 6 months and be consistent. If after 6 months you haven't seen the improvement you had hoped for then I suggest you try seeking out a treatment option from a professional. Laser treatment can improve your scar a lot if done under the right hands. You can seek subcision as well, but I still have to suggest you don't try that yourself or let anyone except a professional administer that type of treatment.

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Yes i talk about needle at angle


and BA,i have nothing against you,but i like to have other advice,you are note the only member who treat your scar.But i am very that you help me and that we help other
a simple diabetic needle for finger is usefull for this ?
yes i have see that there is a problem with owndoc product maybe i have to buy in other store

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That instrument could work for superficial scars, above all be safe. If you hit a vein firm pressure for 2-3 minutes will stop the bleeding. If you hit the superficial temporal artery, (try to avoid temples), pressure for 5 minutes with a bandage. Then pressure dressing for 24 hours. If it soaks through, best see a doc. to stop the bleeding. Hopefully all goes well. 

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On 10/13/2017 at 1:10 PM, Frenchscar said:

I know that subcision can 
and to realize this,you have to cut horizontally the fibrous band
so it's possible with single needle if you use it a lot ?


Yes, I do this. You feel the same crunching, then your scar turns blue underneath, it will bleed a bit, then it soften and lifts. Slow process but effective. I do it at home with Diabetic needle, the thinnest needle you can get. I just do more than once incision vs the BIG needle the docs use and remove tethering all at one. 

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