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JustJon

Water fasting + vitamin/Enzyme Therapy for scarring

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I am new to this community. Recently I have been researching the effect of water fasting as a detox that also manipulates the body into deconstructing scar tissue into a more favorable and aesthetically pleasing form. 

There are a few threads on this subject however the posters either didn't have serious scars to begin with, didn't water fast properly or never gave a final update to their results.

I intend to use this thread as a documentation of my water fasting which will be 21 days long. After which I will be breaking the fast with fruits, vegetables, cold pressed organic olive and coconut oils before going back to solid food. 

It takes at least 10-14 days of continuous fasting for the body to finally stop diverting energy into digestion and into healing and absorbing unnecessary tissues, tumors, cysts, scars, bacteria and viruses.

 

I also want to note that I am taking serrapetase which is a synthetic silk work enzyme that breaks down unnecessary damaged tissues in the body.

I am also taking vitamin C supplements, an occasional pinch of himalayan salt, a drop here and there of oregano oil.

I am consuming lots of water. I alternate between adding drops of lemon and 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide to my water (for other health reasons)

 

I understand that not eating for 21 days will greatly limit my energy. I am not going to work during the fast and I am in between semesters so I am spending most of my time resting and avoiding external stresses.

In order for the fast to be efficient there has to be a minor exercise routine that does not strain the body too much and assists in blood circulation/lymph drainage to maximize the detox.

My routine is as follows:

Walking 6-8 km a day

100 push ups daily

Some simple exercises with dumbbells

 

December 14, 2015 was officially my first day. I intend to give updates every few days or so. My scarring is localized to my forehead but its pretty serious so any improvement is a big deal for me.

 

 

Please do some research on this subject before I receive accusations of self harm.

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WTF, this again???

No offense but your research sources suck, this is quackery of the highest order and the whole thing is simply impossible from a biological standpoint, scar tissue is not some anomaly and your system is not going to magically start digesting it just because you're starving yourself.

In other words, you're just wasting your time and will be very disappointed, just like all the others here that have tried this.

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I commend your dedication but I'm not sure if the fasting will help with much more than decreasing oil production temporarily and allow you to weed out food insensitivies as you reintroduce solids again. A few years ago I did a 26 day juice fast (about a gallon of fresh squeezed juice from beets, carrots, celery, ginger, garlic- eveything good. I took msm and serrapeptase supplements to aid in collagen and "desolval" of scar tissue. My skin felt cleaner after, but absolutely no scar improvement. 

I wish you the best of luck as this is quite the test in self dedication, but please be careful and don't get your hopes too high. Best of luck. 

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Thank you for your mostly positive feedback:

 

@Factoid I am guessing you are a troll for saying my sources suck when I did not provide any... troll much. You have been commenting on this forum for years... go get a hobby or something.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     @Purplestove You were juice fasting not water fasting which is comparably different. Juice fasts provide nutrition unlike a water fast which forces the body to rely on its own energy reserves and nutrients to power its cells mainly through recycling. If you don't mind me asking what strength was your serrapeptase and how big was your dose? Mine is 120,000 UI per pill and I am taking 6-8 a day spread out throughout the day.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               I am undertaking this fast for other health reasons as well as I am suffering from other health conditions and overcoming substance abuse and I see this fast as a process to reset my system to baseline for 2016 and stay on the right track. If this fast can remove inflammation and suppress certain viruses from my body and improve my wound healing (which right now is compromised) I will still say it is worth it. I understand scar tissue is one of those things that is almost impossible to fix. I'm not going to to try to convince anyone it works or encourage/advocate others to try it until I:    1. Finish the fast 2. Finish the break 3. See any improvement 4. Give thorough documentation                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Update: December 16th is over which marks the end of the third day. I ended up dry fasting (not drinking water as well) on the 15th to speed up the process. I intend to alternate between dry fasting and water fasting every other day. I want to comment that over all I feel good. The pangs of hunger have greatly diminished. I am still maintaining good energy levels (which I hope stays that way).                                                                                                                                        Certain red marks have lightened by maybe 10% but my skin texture has remained unchanged which is to be expected. I will be back with an update in 2-3 days.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you all for your input.

Edited by JustJon
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16 hours ago, JustJon said:

Thank you for your mostly positive feedback:

 

@Factoid I am guessing you are a troll for saying my sources suck when I did not provide any... troll much. You have been commenting on this forum for years... go get a hobby or something.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     @Purplestove You were juice fasting not water fasting which is comparably different. Juice fasts provide nutrition unlike a water fast which forces the body to rely on its own energy reserves and nutrients to power its cells mainly through recycling. If you don't mind me asking what strength was your serrapeptase and how big was your dose? Mine is 120,000 UI per pill and I am taking 6-8 a day spread out throughout the day.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               I am undertaking this fast for other health reasons as well as I am suffering from other health conditions and overcoming substance abuse and I see this fast as a process to reset my system to baseline for 2016 and stay on the right track. If this fast can remove inflammation and suppress certain viruses from my body and improve my wound healing (which right now is compromised) I will still say it is worth it. I understand scar tissue is one of those things that is almost impossible to fix. I'm not going to to try to convince anyone it works or encourage/advocate others to try it until I:    1. Finish the fast 2. Finish the break 3. See any improvement 4. Give thorough documentation                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Update: December 16th is over which marks the end of the third day. I ended up dry fasting (not drinking water as well) on the 15th to speed up the process. I intend to alternate between dry fasting and water fasting every other day. I want to comment that over all I feel good. The pangs of hunger have greatly diminished. I am still maintaining good energy levels (which I hope stays that way).                                                                                                                                        Certain red marks have lightened by maybe 10% but my skin texture has remained unchanged which is to be expected. I will be back with an update in 2-3 days.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thank you all for your input.

 

Regarding what you told @Factoid , in my eyes it is good that he's hanging around assisting the community and if he sees that as a hobby, I really appreciate that he puts effort into other threads giving them feedbacks because people who has been here for years got more knowledge than newcomers, obviously.

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This is dangerous. I'm pretty sad that people like you come here. Not eating for 21 days? This could mess up your whole digestive system. I heard someone else did it for like 47 days or something. This could very well be anorexia. 

Walking 6-8 km is the same as running 6-8 km. The only difference is that you run faster so your workout is faster. You need energy (kcal) to be able to do this. This is a lot of exercise for nothing to eat. When Gandhi did it he did not do any exercise. 

Why are people so hard on themselves? Really you are literally going to starve yourself because there someone on the internet told you that it might help your scars? I wish we could be kinder to ourselves. This excessive punishment for having acne (regulating diets, fasting) and then scars (fasting, painful scar treatments) is a problem. 

 

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Update: Friday, December 18, 2015

I just completed another day of dry fasting and have switched over to water as I alternate the two.

@il90 I want to clarify a few things as some people do not quite understand how certain biological processes work.

1. Walking is not the same as running. Everything burns calories... even sitting in front of a computer typing burns calories. When you engage in cardiovascular exercise your heart rate can go up to 180 bpm. This is dangerous if you are fasting as the heart rate  actually decreases to deal with the biochemical changes occurring in the body and should not be raised.

2. Fasting for an extended period of time actually aids the digestive system. It allows the toxic build up in the intestinal lining to break down and gives your digestive system which is usually working over time 24/7 a chance to rest. It also cleans up toxicity from both your liver and your kidneys.

3. Like I have mentioned earlier I have other health problems (not scarring) that this fast is going to address. I am also overcoming substance abuse and I view this process as a head start towards my New Years resolution.

4. The idea behind water/dry fasting for a period of 2-4 weeks is to manipulate the body to enter autolysis or what is known as self digestion. During this process the body starts breaking down damaged tissues, cysts, tumors, as well as scar tissue as a source of glucose to nourish itself. The body will break down unnecessary tissues before it begins to scavenge muscle as a food source.

5. I do not in any shape or form claim that fasting removes scars but it does deconstruct the scar tissue into a better healed and potentially aesthetically pleasing form.

 

Western medicine has not provided a cure for any disease since 1954. The reason is that there is more money in making patients repeated customers by merely treating their symptoms with cancerous liver/kidney damaging pharmaceuticals (which may or may not work) that can cause additional health problems... but don't worry there's a pill for that as well!

Most people distrust alternative and holistic views towards addressing diseases due to lack of peer reviewed scientific literature. Keep in mind that the big pharmaceutical companies pay scientists to produce favorable scientific reviews for their drugs and to discredit natural therapies (which cannot be patented and exploited)

If you have been following this site and reading the reviews of other members here you will already know by now that conventional dermatological methods such as lasers, ipl, steroids and even minor surgery not only have a very low success rate towards addressing skin problems but they are also very expensive, can have a down time of weeks if not months or years (another example of Western medicine pocketing our hard earned cash and providing no results.).

@Chloe123 In the Western World our society  is based around food as we have fast food joints, classy restaurants everywhere and 24/7 open grocery stores. Fasting comes from the Eastern World where people share a different ideology than us on this topic. It's all about perspective. Sure I do not exactly enjoy this fast but I do not view it as a punishment but as an eye opening experience as I get to experience what 6.3 billion impoverished people on this planet experience on a daily basis (most of these people are not dying from starvation anytime soon and the population of those people is said to increase.).

 

 

This is my 5th day on the fast. I am experiencing not requiring as much sleep and I feel weak at times but I also occasionally experience having elevated energy levels. My stomach has stopped growling and I don't feel hungry although I think about pizza, steak and cheese cake lol.

As expected there is no change to my scars as the process of autolysis has not started yet. Skin redness has decreased slightly.

Thank you for your mostly positive input.

 

Disclaimer: I am not in any shape or form encouraging people to try this and I am not advocating this method until I personally observe results. There are enough losers on this site starting a therapy they just heard about and telling everyone that its a miracle cure and to jump on the bandwagon when they haven't seen any results from such therapies themselves.

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On 17. 12. 2015., JustJon said:

@Factoid I am guessing you are a troll for saying my sources suck when I did not provide any... troll much. You have been commenting on this forum for years... go get a hobby or something.  

 

LOL yes, I am a troll that goes around pointing out the rampant quackery here for shits and giggles.

And your sources suck because they've convinced you this bunk actually works. No reputable i.e. accredited academic source would ever suggest such utter nonsense.

 

On 18. 12. 2015., JustJon said:

The idea behind water/dry fasting for a period of 2-4 weeks is to manipulate the body to enter autolysis or what is known as self digestion. During this process the body starts breaking down damaged tissues, cysts, tumors, as well as scar tissue as a source of glucose to nourish itself. The body will break down unnecessary tissues before it begins to scavenge muscle as a food source.

 

Assuming this works exactly the way you claim (it doesn't), removing 100% of scar tissue still wouldn't fix acne scarring as its defining characteristic is collagen loss i.e. pitting, not scar tissue.

So again, a waste of time.

 

On 18. 12. 2015., JustJon said:

Western medicine has not provided a cure for any disease since 1954.

 

And there goes what little credibility you had left. To claim this with a straight face just tells us you are another one of those conspiracy theorists who see the boogeyman in Big Pharma. Western medicine has revolutionized our approach to pathology and increased life expectancy tremendously, people today are living longer and with greater quality-of-life than at any point in history, all thanks to evidence-based medicine aka Western medicine.

And off the top of my head, here are three post-1954 breakthroughs that Western medicine has delivered:

1) Anti-retroviral therapy for HIV. People aren't dying en-masse of AIDS anymore.

2) Sovaldi therapy can now cure you of chronic Hepatitis C in 12 weeks, this was unimaginable just 10 years ago.

3) Targeted chemotherapy now makes testicular cancer up to 95% curable, a generation ago this was significantly lower.

 

Good luck finding these kinds of verifiable results with alternative medicine.

 

On 18. 12. 2015., JustJon said:

Most people distrust alternative and holistic views towards addressing diseases due to lack of peer reviewed scientific literature.

 

Yes, because without verifiable evidence something works you're essentially using faith-based medicine. Certain things are more plausible than others but there always needs to be a fundamentally understandable mechanism-of-action.

 

On 18. 12. 2015., JustJon said:

Keep in mind that the big pharmaceutical companies pay scientists to produce favorable scientific reviews for their drugs and to discredit natural therapies (which cannot be patented and exploited)

 

Corrupt scientists get weeded out precisely thanks to peer-review, once their results are not found to be independently replicable their work becomes suspect and eventually rejected. That is why Western medicine works and is superior: it is self-correcting and builds on previous advances.

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3 minutes ago, Factoid said:

Assuming this works exactly the way you claim (it doesn't), removing 100% of scar tissue still wouldn't fix acne scarring as its defining characteristic is collagen loss i.e. pitting, not scar tissue.

So again, a waste of time.

 

If you actually read what I wrote I never said it would completely eliminate scarring but may improve its appearance. I've said this multiple times.

 

5 minutes ago, Factoid said:

And there goes what little credibility you had left. To claim this with a straight face just tells us you are another one of those conspiracy theorists who see the boogeyman in Big Pharma. Western medicine has revolutionized our approach to pathology and increased life expectancy tremendously, people today are living longer and with greater quality-of-life than at any point in history, all thanks to evidence-based medicine aka Western medicine.

And off the top of my head, here are three post-1954 breakthroughs that Western medicine has delivered:

1) Anti-retroviral therapy for HIV. People aren't dying en-masse of AIDS anymore.

2) Sovaldi therapy can now cure you of chronic Hepatitis C in 12 weeks, this was unimaginable just 10 years ago.

3) Targeted chemotherapy now makes testicular cancer up to 95% curable, a generation ago this was significantly lower.

 

Anti-retroviral therapy and Solvadi therapy are not cures... merely treatments. As for the targeted chemotherapy for the testicles I can't vouch for whether such a cure is worth it as the expense of losing function of your testicles... again not a real cure since I rather keep my sperm count. Why don't you go tell the community how conventional dermatological methods have cured your skin conditions or scarring... oh wait it hasn't.

 

7 minutes ago, Factoid said:

Yes, because without verifiable evidence something works you're essentially using faith-based medicine. Certain things are more plausible than others but there always needs to be a fundamentally understandable mechanism-of-action.

 

There are lot of scientists who work for the greater good towards finding natural cures. Unfortunately they do not receive funding from the pharmaceutical corporations because you cannot patent gods gifts to us and thus you cannot make a profit. Also the FDA prohibits scientists and distributors of holistic medicine from making claims that their products can treat particular diseases while the toxic pills and ineffective treatments get a pass because its all about the money.

 

9 minutes ago, Factoid said:

Corrupt scientists get weeded out precisely thanks to peer-review, once their results are not found to be independently replicable their work becomes suspect and eventually rejected. That is why Western medicine works and is superior: it is self-correcting and builds on previous advances.

 

If this was actually true, several cures for several debilitating diseases that plague the modern world would have already been available by now. Unfortunately there is no business interest in finding a cure but there is a huge interest in treating symptoms of a disease rather than curing it and having repeat customers.

 

 

@Factoid The bottom line is that the people who support the medical mafia themselves are ironically the biggest quacks.  My credibility has never been put on the line since I have never said that my current therapy will eliminate my scarring completely if at all but it is something I am willing to try for the sake of myself and the community. If it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't. However I will not be advocating this therapy until I complete the 21 days of water/dry fasting, break the fast with polyunsaturated oils and raw foods which will take another week and provide documentation. 

Go rip on the other losers who start an alternative therapy and by day 1 are raving about it and telling everyone to join the bandwagon.

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I am not a troll or a person with multiple accounts and I can verify my identity.

My profile picture is me.

This is my Facebook page. I am an entrepreneur and a freelancer residing in Toronto, Ontario. I have no reason to hide behind anonymity because my credibility has never been in question unlike most losers on this site.

https://www.facebook.com/Jonathan-421152488043831/?fref=ts

Give me a like to subscribe for more content!

Here is my LinkedIn account:

 https://ca.linkedin.com/in/jon-shkiler-9b6287a9

Connect with me as I am always looking to build my professional contacts!

 

 

Update: December 20, 2015 (day 7)

My skin redness has continued to decrease due to the decline in inflammation. The Scars are still there but do not look as noticeable due to the decrease in redness.

Texture has finally begun to improve slightly but it is still too early to tell. So please do not take it for face value until I finish this experiment. 

My regime has changed slightly as I am using Sea Buckthorn seed oil by Sibu (Ingredients from Tibet) as a topical so this might have an added effect to my skin, consuming large amounts of vitamin C, on top of taking large doses of Serrapeptase and the water/dry fasting.

Out of the 7 days of fasting, I have water fasted for 4 days and dry fasted for 3 by alternating  the type of fast everyday.

My digestive system has finally taken a rest (no grumbling sounds) which makes the supplements I take (primarily Serrapeptase) more effective as my stomach acids are weaker and allow for an improved absorption.

I am still able to go on walks multiple times a day and I have no problem doing 100 push ups under two minutes.

One negative thing about this that I want to note is that my sleep cycle has been completely messed up by this fast. I am experiencing that I require less sleep and sometimes I will go for over 24 hours without it which has really messed up my biological clock. I believe the restlessness has to do with the fact that my body has more natural energy due to my digestive system taking a rest and with me not working.

 

I am also not sure if I can last until January 4th, 2016 so I am considering to end the fast latest around December 31, 2015. I might not end up doing the entire 21 days but that's okay because dry fasting is an equivalent of 2.5 days of water fasting.

 

Disclaimer: I am not in any shape or form encouraging people to try this and I am not advocating this method until I personally observe results at the end of this experiment. There are enough losers on this site starting a therapy they just heard about and telling everyone that its a miracle cure and to jump on the bandwagon when they haven't seen any results from such therapies themselves.

 

Edited by JustJon
wrong dates
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2 minutes ago, alag35 said:

i rly hope this workout for you but unfortunately without before/after pics your topic and everything that youre writing here wont be reliable

 

He has pics on the links he provided. I think his skin looks fine but if he's doing it for other health reasons, then good for him.

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To be honest I don't think I can last the entire 21 days. I need to get back to hustling so I can pay for my somewhat expensive lifestyle and the process of breaking the fast (juice fasting + organic oats) is going to take another week which is very energy and time consuming. It also sucks that I can't drive during this entire ordeal.

Today is technically my 8th day. I am going to do it for 14 days. I am going to make up for this by increasing my dry fasting ratio (1 day of dry fasting = 2.5 days of water fasting) and upping my dosage of serrapeptase to 1,000,000 UI a day.

 

Fasting for an entire 21 days is way to disruptive for people with a hectic life style. I intend to try some liver flushes after this ordeal as I am finding that it only has to be done once or twice a week with only a 12 hour fast at a time.

I personally believe that when you remove waste products from your body it allows your body to focus on repair which could indirectly somewhat affect skin scarring.

Keep in mind that some people react badly to these cleanses and there are people who received terrible purges and acne scarring from this treatment.

 

I also want to note that just like conventional dermatological treatments these methods are not an overnight cure. Consider laser therapy which needs up to three months to see any sort of improvement (if any)... these methods are the exact same way.

I have been visiting the IPL damage support forum and have read positive reviews of people who were able to reverse most of the damage done by lasers and IPL over a two year period by simply eating healthy, staying hydrated, not picking their skin, exercising and not applying harsh topicals. I believe this applies to anything.

I will have an update tomorrow.

 

Thank you for your positive feedback.

 

Edited by JustJon
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Update: I ended up breaking the fast earlier because I just couldn't take it anymore... however I want to note a few things:

1. I have a greater appreciation for simple foods and I am eating less meat and eating healthier as a result.

2. Also drinking more water.

3. My face cleared up completely and some of my scars significantly smoothed out (just imagine if I stuck to it for another week!)

4. Redness almost completely disappeared.

5. Sea BuckThorn Seed oil is a miracle topical for redness and scarring of any kind. I am absolutely raving about it!

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Again without proper backing, no one will should take this serious. Anyone with what appears to be a  clear face can claim they softened their acne scars by going to a sacred fountain and dipping their face into it, followed by starving themselves and living an austere, pleasure free life for 3 days. Absurd? Yeah, that's how your posting is perceived to many... Only those desperate or susceptible subjects who lack wisdom  will be transfixed by such absurdity and take part.

And your laser metaphor lacks logical reasoning...i'm sorry

 

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On 2015-12-18 08:06:21, JustJon said:

Update: Friday, December 18, 2015

I just completed another day of dry fasting and have switched over to water as I alternate the two.

@il90 I want to clarify a few things as some people do not quite understand how certain biological processes work.

1. Walking is not the same as running. Everything burns calories... even sitting in front of a computer typing burns calories. When you engage in cardiovascular exercise your heart rate can go up to 180 bpm. This is dangerous if you are fasting as the heart rate  actually decreases to deal with the biochemical changes occurring in the body and should not be raised.

2. Fasting for an extended period of time actually aids the digestive system. It allows the toxic build up in the intestinal lining to break down and gives your digestive system which is usually working over time 24/7 a chance to rest. It also cleans up toxicity from both your liver and your kidneys.

3. Like I have mentioned earlier I have other health problems (not scarring) that this fast is going to address. I am also overcoming substance abuse and I view this process as a head start towards my New Years resolution.

4. The idea behind water/dry fasting for a period of 2-4 weeks is to manipulate the body to enter autolysis or what is known as self digestion. During this process the body starts breaking down damaged tissues, cysts, tumors, as well as scar tissue as a source of glucose to nourish itself. The body will break down unnecessary tissues before it begins to scavenge muscle as a food source.

 

 

May I ask where you get your sources? When I had anorexia I started scarring really bad because I wasn't eating enough to help my body recover from the acne I was getting. Now that I eat healthy I don't scar like I used to. Of course, Accutane did Indeed make my skin thinner but I scarred before when I didn't eat oppose to when I did. How is fasting any different? I thought you needed certain vitamins (especially C) to help your body recover from scarring by fasting for weeks you certainly won't get that.

I'm highly skeptical of your body eating scar tissue? I mean seriously... where is the evidence that this has ever happened? 

I think everyone should disregard this person as a troll. This is dangerous. Can you imagine telling people that you stopped eating for 4 weeks straight because someone on the internet told you to without any real empirical data about its efficiency? 

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@il90

1. Fasting is not anorexia. In nature, Animals when wounded or injured do not eat or sometimes even drink until they are healed. They do this by instinct.

2. I was taking some vitamin's during this fast. Mainly vitamin C for collagen. 

3. As I have said maybe 15 times already (but everyone apparently is an illiterate so I have to repeat myself) the process of extended fasting encourages the body to recycle and scavenge damages or unnecessary tissues. It just so happens that scar tissue may be some what affected by this process and you may receive some form of improvement such as diminished redness and smoothing out of skin but it does not completely remove scars because scars are permanent.

4. There is a lot of information on this subject from Naturopathic doctors who are educated and licensed by the government to do what they do. Just because you rather pay $5000 for a laser that will melt off your face instead of fasting for a budget of under 20 dollars doesn't mean all of us share your business acumen.

5. Please go read a book, put down your cheese burgers and educate yourself before embarrassing yourself further.

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@Robertitoo

Let's rectify a few things because clearly you haven't read what I wrote or you did but chose to ignore it to make a ridiculous comment here.

On 12/24/2015, 3:10:53, Robertitoo said:

Again without proper backing, no one will should take this serious.

 

Fasts have been done under the guidance of Naturopathic doctors and they have made observations on the effects of fasting on the human body. Naturopaths are licensed by the government and mandated to carry insurance in most States and Countries so the field they practice is not as pseudo-science quackery and ineffective as the pharmaceutical industry would like you to believe. Just because you are a lazy intellectual and you do not wish to do your research don't discredit something that could help someone else.

 

On 12/24/2015, 3:10:53, Robertitoo said:

Anyone with what appears to be a  clear face can claim they softened their acne scars by going to a sacred fountain and dipping their face into it, followed by starving themselves and living an austere, pleasure free life for 3 days.

 

There was no sacred fountain. I was actually refraining from drinking water during half the days of my fasting. I wasn't starving. And I was still able to do 100 push ups in a row followed by 20 pull ups in a single go. It also wasnt three days because the process of autolysis or cell recycling takes a minimum10-14 days of continuous water fasting  to begin (i sped up the process by dry fasting as well. I lasted 8 days.) If a laser cannot give you instant results within 3 days neither will fasting.

Sea Buckthorn seed oil is something new I have been trying with this process and I am happier with this topical than I am with the fast itself.

On 12/24/2015, 3:10:53, Robertitoo said:

Absurd? Yeah, that's how your posting is perceived to many...

 

You are absurd. Out of your fear of not eating for more than a week you would rather do something even more absurd such as blast your skin with radiation from lasers (Go to IPL support forums) or have doctors cut up your skin with subcision which both have long aesthetic down times and a low proven track record of long term improvement as well as costing alot of money which most people do not have.

On 12/24/2015, 3:10:53, Robertitoo said:

Only those desperate or susceptible subjects who lack wisdom  will be transfixed by such absurdity and take part.

 

Some of us do not want to waste or time or money on conventional treatments that have low success rates and can cause more harm than good. Some of us care enough to read and research a variety of methods in order to come up with our own well informed decision. You have over 1000 posts on this site on a variety of topics. Why don't you tell me how conventional treatments and all the money and time you spent was more effective than my 8 day water/dry fast.

You are only scared of what you do not know and understand. Go read a book for a change and educate yourself.

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