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Hi Beth,

Yes, I did have some of my scars needled by Frank on Friday. He used a SofTap Hand Tool (containing 18 needles, I believe) on some scars on my left temple. These are the only scars I had done because this was my first needling session and I thought it best to proceed with caution. I was told that my temple scars were not bad at all, although to me they have always looked as deep as the Grand Canyon. A woman who was there to learn needling from Frank said that I had "beautiful skin" and seemed amazed that I wanted to have anything done, but it was a compliment I can't accept. I KNOW I don't have nice skin. Some of my scars ARE profound and my temple scars, in particular, have always bothered me.

Frank first applied some numbing cream and then waited about 15 minutes before he started the procedure. It hurt a little at times (the needle pricks felt like intense pinching) but it was definitely never more than I could handle. Halfway through, he did apply some more numbing cream. The procedure took about 30 minutes, I believe, and my temple area looked very red and somewhat abraded at the end. FRANK STRESSED THAT I WILL NOT HAVE ANY SCABS AND THAT SCABS ARE NOT DESIRED--OR STANDARD--WITH THIS PROCEDURE.

Two days later, the redness has faded a little (I am applying petrolatum ointment, as directed) and I'm hoping it will have faded even more by Thanksgiving. Frank said I may need another treatment or two in the area but I shouldn't even consider that for at least 6 to 8 weeks. He is a very straightforward and knowledgable guy and seems very much an expert in this treatment. The lecture he gave preceding my treatment was interesting and reinforced some things I already knew, but was nevertheless, glad to hear again.

As it stands now, I would recommend needling as a valid treatment option for scars. Of course I find that I keep looking at the red areas and wondering if they REALLY WILL completely heal/fade, but that's just my own neuroses from past bungled treatments. I'm sure I will continue to heal...I'm confident and optimistic. Good luck Beth.

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Ok new update.

Just had my 2nd needling done. its been about 26 days since my first session, this is only on my left cheek where my scars look bad.

The improvments after 1st session are about 40-50% but its hard to tell, skin is softer/smoother small scars are gone, deeper ones have risen up a bit. At first i thought the improvement was very little but when i went to the tatto place she showed me a picture when i first came in and took another one today, and there is a big improvment. when u look yourself in the mirror everyday its harder to notice the diff i guess because even my mom was saying it has improved

anyways i have also scheuled my smoothbeam treatments my 1st one is on Dec 9th.. that should give me 12-13 days after the 2nd needling session now is this enough time in between? any help will be apreciated.

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Ok new update.

Just had my 2nd needling done. its been about 26 days since my first session, this is only on my left cheek where my scars look bad.

The improvments after 1st session are about 40-50% but its hard to tell, skin is softer/smoother small scars are gone, deeper ones have risen up a bit.  At first i thought the improvement was very little but when i went to the tatto place she showed me a picture when i first came in and took another one today, and there is a big improvment. when u look yourself in the mirror everyday its harder to notice the diff i guess because even my mom was saying it has improved

anyways i have also scheuled my smoothbeam treatments my 1st one is on Dec 9th.. that should give me 12-13 days after the 2nd needling session now is this enough time in between? any help will  be apreciated.

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sounds like a great combo of treatments. Nico did the same -- so if you are looking for info, search for threads by him.  

Also, make sure to let your derm know about the needling, when you go in for SB.  

good luck, and come chat in the 'my smoothbeam thread'

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Hi,

I had laser resurfacing done a year ago. It left me with orange peel skin and the acne scars are more noticeable. To make matters worse, I developed severe cystic acne a month and a half after the resurfacing, so I developed new scars. And if that wasn't bad enough, my cosmetic doctor injected too strong a solution of cortisone into my skin, and I was left with 4 huge dents on my face. It took 6 months for three of the dents to fill in completely. But the biggest dent has not filled in, and that one is the most noticeable.

Needless to say, I am TOTALLY AGAINST laser resurfacing. Don't believe the cosmetic doctors' claims of 80% improvement. I saw only 15% at the most, and my scars are not that deep, nor are they icepick scars. They are the rolling/boxcar types. And PLEASE be careful if your derm offers to inject your cysts with cortisone. If he/she uses too strong a solution, you'll wind up with deep, noticeable dents in your face that is far more worse than any acne scar.

Anyway, here's my Needling Experience....

Today I had my first needling from a dermatologist trained by Dr. Des Fernandes. It was not too bad.

About 45 minutes before the procedures, the doctor smeared a thick numbing cream on the area to be treated. (She treats in the face in sections; today I was having my chin area done.) I was given a bit a valium in order to relax, which also helped. Then she used novocaine to numb my mouth area. To make sure I didn't feel anything, she would take a small needle and poke around my chin area to see if I felt anything. If I did, she'd use more novocaine.

I didn't feel a thing during the actual procedure. All I heard was a crunching sound as she ran the Medical roll-cit over my skin. That is the sound of the scar tissue being broken up. The nurse had never seen this procedure, so she observed. When the doctor showed her the roll-cit, it was bright red with blood. Afterwards, she let me look in the mirror. It wasn't pretty--I looked like Freddy Krueger, but since I'm not the squeamish, I thought it was quite interesting.

I was given a special Environ ointment to apply on the treated area. In this case, it is Environ's EssentiA. I also have to smear a light coat of Vaseline (I use Aquafor) over the area as well.

My chin is red and swollen, and bruising will appear. But all of this will be gone in 5 days, except for maybe redness. There is also some slight oozing.

I don't recommend going out after you've had this done--it looks ghastly. I have the misfortune of having to answer the door when the mailman came with a package--egads. But I covered my chin area and asked him to just leave it, telling him I had facial surgery done and I don't look very nice. He was very accommodating.

For aftercare, I clean the treated area by taking a warm (not hot) washcloth, pressing it gently against my face. I rinse and repeat until the washcloth no longer shows any blood or oozing. My face felt better after each cleansing. Then I apply the EssentiA and the Aquafor.

My dermatologist told me that the effects of needling won't be noticeable until about 3 months. Sometimes it takes up to 18 months to see the full results. But you can have the same area re-needled after 3 months.

To all of you who used a tattoo artist--bravo--I am not that brave! I understand that REALLY hurts. My hubby would not let me go to a tattoo artist for needling--only a trained medical doctor, which is more expensive, but there are plusses, in that it is painless (save for getting the numbing injections.) And to those of you who DIY...wow...I tried to on one acne scar, but I didn't go deep enough, so nothing much happened. But whatever works for you, go for it.

I'll keep you all posted, if you're interested....

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Afterwards, she let me look in the mirror. It wasn't pretty--I looked like Freddy Krueger, but since I'm not the squeamish, I thought it was quite interesting.  

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I'd have to get my entire face needled to look like Freddy and scare the kiddies at Halloween....

And you should ask your dermatologist or doctor for some valium that you can take prior to the needling.

Well, the second day I was still swollen on my chin--it looked like somebody bopped me on the chin but good. I had all these little whiteheads which made my chin looked like a pizza face. There was some itching, but I would soak the area with warm water and reapply EssentiA oil and that really helped.

I went out on Day 3 (with a TON of makeup on the needled area) and the cashier at the bookstore looked at me strangely. I got home and realized why: it looks like somebody tried to choke me and left bruises all over my neck. My chin also still looked slightly swollen. The small whiteheads are gone, and the topmost layer of skin flaked off after I took a shower. It's too soon to say if there's improvement. One thing's for sure: you really can't venture outside for 5 days after you've had this done. (Unless you really don't care what you look like or if you enjoy shocking people.) biggrin.gif/

How's everybody else doing with their needling???

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Honolulu_Baby,

I wish you the best in results achieved and healing quickly. Will you have it done again in 3 months? My son has cystic acne and terrible scars. When his acne is no longer active I want to get this done. I don't know about the roll-slit so I am looking into the tattoo artist aspect of it. I figure it will take at least a year or longer to get the desired results if it is possible at all. I know some people achieve better results than others probably because of their skin type whether thick or thin. Age is also a determining factor I am sure. It is guess work at best in judging how each individual will fair. However, I am very excited for you. It sounds like your doc knew what she was doing and this is going to be a positive outcome for you. I will keep watching for your updates. Do you have any pics you could post? Thank you for your time, Linny

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I had Needling done today. It only took the Aesthetician about 20 minutes to do all of my scars. She did it twice, in two different directions. My face looks red and swollen, but not as bad as it looked after subcision. It didn't hurt all that much, just a bit of discomfort and afterwards like a bad sunburn - I didn't apply a topical analgesic beforehand. Price: $150.

I will update this thread in about 8 weeks (approximately mid. February). I am really hoping that I'll see some results!

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sept 29 anj77 says

"I had needling done today"

on Oct 6, 2003 anj77 says

"My needler used a gun with 8 needles & so far I've noticed good results, my scar improvement seems to be at 70%. I had 2 small areas on my cheeks needled to so see how it effects me, but i do plan to do more needling in January,thats when i get time off work it'll be including other areas on my cheek & forehead. "

on Oct 26, anj77 says

"As for my results, seems to be continuous improvement in my scarring.The left side seems to be responding better than the right side. also the right side scar is very large and deep. Total results seems to vary between 40% to 60%."

from "small areas" to "very large and deep"; from "70%" to "40% to 60%" in just 20 days. no posts from anj77 since.

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Maya,

What I am most interested in is, what are the long term effects of a single or multi-session needling? Have you heard from anyone who has had the treatment in 2002?

The topic of needle abrasion has been popluar ON THE FORUMS, here and elsewhere, for over a year, but it hasn't seemed to caught on outside of the internet. No reports on NBC News or dateline or Time Magazine, and have even dermatologists heard about it?? Why do you think that is so??

I understand you contribute greatly to these boards, and I was hoping that you would find the time.

Thanks.

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Hi Stockboy

I haven't had time to reply for awhile..the results so far from my needling is about 50% improvement, I 'll need another needling session in order to get aleast 70%, but yes i've seen good results.

I'm stilll undecided if i want to get more needling done, I'm thinking of TCA 50% for my whole face, cos last time i remember that i had TCA peel from my doc which was 60% TCA I had excellent results, then after 6months the scars started to show up again, but not as bad as before, I've purchased TCA 50% and have a week off in January, thats when I'll be applying TCA to my whold face. Now that I have TCA to my dispose I'm able to do followups like maybe every 4-5 months.

If i go for TCA peel, then I'll be updating my results on the " Cross Treatment using 100% TCA message board.

Thanx again!

Anj

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We’re back!! You need needling, we need you! Are you upset at those technicians who charge outrageous prices and rip up the delicate skin. I am training nurses, estheticians, tattoo artists and other professionals in needling and I need models (Clients) looking to have their scars needled. We use the tattoo machine and hand tools. The needling services will be outside of Phoenix, AZ on Friday January 9th, only. There is a $50 equipment charge for up to a 1 hour service. Don’t want to be a model, then I’ll work on your problems (but not at $50.). If interested or you need information, contact Frank at Transitions – 845 225-5595 or e-mail me at [email protected] and you can look at our site at www.transitionspmc.com. In Spring 2004, we are teaching needling in Western, NY, Las Vegas (March 18, 19), Dallas, TX, and San Jose, CA. We will be in Orlando and Fort Lauderdale/Miami, Florida on February 5, 6 & 7. We will be needing models then also. Hope this helps some. Please pass the word around. Tell your local tattoo artist. References available.

Best Wishes,

Frank

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I think I read where you said that if the needling is not aggressive enough the results won't be that good? I had an aggressive needling treatment and it improved my scars a lot. I want to do it again but am sort of afraid because some people say I just got lucky with my results. Mine took like a month to heal. It kept oozing and the scab would fall off and then a new scab would form. Do you think it is better to get an aggressive needling treatment or if it is too aggressive does it break up too much of the epidermis rather than working at the dermal level?

Also do you know where I could get a roll-cit treatment in the U.S.? Were you happy with roll-cit?

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Hi Kim,

Where did you go for your agressive needling treatment? Do you know what type of instrument or gun used? Did you go to a derm or tattoo artist? I am located in Stockton, CA. Thank you for your time. Linny

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does neone know where I can find a good tattoo artist or day spa in Florida to have needling done? I am aware that transitions will be here next month, but need something else to fall back on which nobody has mentioned in the threads yet.

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Thanks Maya! Yes, I think I might try it depending upon whether I can get enough time to do it. I pretty much have my course of action set as far as treatment goes. I am soon doing punch grafting/excision and needling, owing to the great results you achieved. I think this combo of treatment will yield good results! The BIG problem is figuring out how to accomodate my down time into my busy schedule.

I was doing Smoothbeam earlier last year, but with my type of scars, surgical work would give me a more acceptable outcome.

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Hi Maya and readers

I am Grant and work with Dr Des Fernandes on developing needling products and techniques. As you may have seen from Maya's website link, Des has lectured on the topic and has had excellent results in treating acne pitted and scarred skin. Des has now trained several surgeons around the world who can needle. To contact a surgeon closest to you who needles, either contact myself or visit our website www.vivida.co.za and follow the enquiry buttons. Youll also find a lot of information on the technique and the products on our site.

Grant

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