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Acne issues! Can't seem to shake!

MemberMember
51
(@diamond98)

Posted : 10/30/2015 9:36 pm

Hey! Diamond here, I'm a new user. Here's a little background of me. I'm a male, 17 years old, about 5 foot 10, weigh 129 and have had pesty acne since 8th grade.

Before I ask for any help, let me give you a quick rundown of my skin care routine and diet.

In the morning, I wash with a Christina Moss Naturals organic face wash and follow that up with an aloe vera based organic and non comedogenic mouisturizer. I don't wash again until I get home from school, and only with water. I follow the rinse up with some more moiusturizer. By the time I get home from school before washing, my skin is SUPER oily. Like beyond comprehension oily. Before I go to bed, I wash again with the coconut oil based Christina Moss Naturals wash using a Spin for Perfect Skin brush. I follow that up with more moisturizer. Right before bed I also put some .05% retin A on some spots.

My diet is immaculate for my age. Haven't had added sugars, refined carbs, sodas, candies, processed meats or snacks, sports drinks or anything else that could be detremental to my skins health for over 3 years. I drink 3 tbs total of Bragg's ACV every day, and drink around 200 oz of water on top of that. I eat a ton of fruits, veggies, whole grains and other greeneries and colorful foods daily. I consume a tbs of ground flax and a tbs of chia every morning and at dinner. Overall, I am blessed to say that not only have I had the ability to eat so healthily but have had the mind set to actually eat healthy consistantly.

Even though I follow this acne-fighting diet and holistically follow the skin routine, I still have cysts, blackheads, uneven tone and red marks around my mouth, cheeks and forehead. I just really don't know what to do. I have experimented with BP, salacylic, honey and ACV washes and feel out of options whether this Christina routine works or not. Please, of anybody has any sort of advice it would be much appreciated. Thanks!

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MemberMember
568
(@leelowe1)

Posted : 10/31/2015 5:44 am

Best advice I can give you is not to beat yourself up. For some people, making the necessary lifestyle changes fixes acne. But this does not apply to everyone. Keep on eating well and exercising. In terms of your routine, retin a needs to be used as an all over treatment as it prevents pimples at their earliest formation (which can take 4-6 months of consistent use). If you are getting cysts, a trip to a professional may be in order or at the very least, a naturopath. Gentle is best but sometimes you need a combination of natural and man made stuff to tame this beast

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MemberMember
8
(@drew_drewson)

Posted : 10/31/2015 11:44 am

I think I know exactly what is causing your breakouts and this may go against all the convention you have come to believe in when it comes to clearing your skin. This is my first post on this site and I had to write to you because I think you may be falling into the same trap I did. I also have a very lean body type and have eaten "clean" my entire life and I am very physically active. I was about the same height and weight as you when I was your age and ate very clean as you do. Fast forward a few years and I am beginning to understand that the obsession that I had with eating "healthy" and how it correlated with my skin is actually what induced my breakouts. The diet you have explained is certainly very high in carbs, fiber, and protein. This diet probably isnt working for you because you have already a very lean build and a high metabolic rate. Every time you eat a high carb, high fiber, low fat meal, your body could be suffering from an imbalance and deficiency. In your case its possible that you need to eat more fat. Don't be so cautious when trimming the fat off of steaks for example -- this simple tip of adding more fat into your diet goes against what many acne sufferers say about eating clean and whatnot, but it may be exactly what you need (and I am not saying eat junk). I don't know you personally, but in theory a lot of things would lead me to believe that this would be highly beneficial because the diet you explained seems unbalanced and you would classify as an ectomorph.

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MemberMember
51
(@diamond98)

Posted : 10/31/2015 12:01 pm

Best advice I can give you is not to beat yourself up. For some people, making the necessary lifestyle changes fixes acne. But this does not apply to everyone. Keep on eating well and exercising. In terms of your routine, retin a needs to be used as an all over treatment as it prevents pimples at their earliest formation (which can take 4-6 months of consistent use). If you are getting cysts, a trip to a professional may be in order or at the very least, a naturopath. Gentle is best but sometimes you need a combination of natural and man made stuff to tame this beast

I am starting so think similarly to you in that assessment. Do you have any reccomemded products that are semi natural, semi gentle and could maybe help me out? Thanks

I think I know exactly what is causing your breakouts and this may go against all the convention you have come to believe in when it comes to clearing your skin. This is my first post on this site and I had to write to you because I think you may be falling into the same trap I did. I also have a very lean body type and have eaten "clean" my entire life and I am very physically active. I was about the same height and weight as you when I was your age and ate very clean as you do. Fast forward a few years and I am beginning to understand that the obsession that I had with eating "healthy" and how it correlated with my skin is actually what induced my breakouts. The diet you have explained is certainly very high in carbs, fiber, and protein. This diet probably isnt working for you because you have already a very lean build and a high metabolic rate. Every time you eat a high carb, high fiber, low fat meal, your body could be suffering from an imbalance and deficiency. In your case its possible that you need to eat more fat. Don't be so cautious when trimming the fat off of steaks for example -- this simple tip of adding more fat into your diet goes against what many acne sufferers say about eating clean and whatnot, but it may be exactly what you need (and I am not saying eat junk). I don't know you personally, but in theory a lot of things would lead me to believe that this would be highly beneficial because the diet you explained seems unbalanced and you would classify as an ectomorph.

Thanks a lot for the advice and help! I have tried numerous switch ups in my diet, including the addition of higher fat foods. I eat lots of almonds, cashews, walnuts, fattier meats on occasion and higher fat oils. Did you see an improvement in overall skin condition when you stepped a little outside of clean eating? Like more fats and what not? Thanks

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MemberMember
8
(@drew_drewson)

Posted : 10/31/2015 2:39 pm

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as "the high carb-low fat diet"may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne resulting from nutrient and fat deprivation.

Diamond98 liked
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MemberMember
51
(@diamond98)

Posted : 10/31/2015 2:45 pm

On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as high carb-low fat may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne.

Your input is much appreciated and I will begin to add more healthy fats into my diet ASAP. Do you think a good start at implementing healthier fats into my diet would be to eat an avacado every morning and tuna at night? Thanks

Quote
MemberMember
8
(@drew_drewson)

Posted : 10/31/2015 3:07 pm

On 11/1/2015 at 1:45 AM, Diamond98 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as high carb-low fat may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne.

Your input is much appreciated and I will begin to add more healthy fats into my diet ASAP. Do you think a good start at implementing healthier fats into my diet would be to eat an avacado every morning and tuna at night? Thanks

Avocado and tuna are a good start. The key is having the right ratio of fat, protein, carbs, and fiber at each meal. If you are consuming mainly carbs one meal and mainly fat another meal,and mainly protein another meal then it wont be as beneficial. When I first started increasing my fat intake I found that eating a lot of fattier meats and adding100% natural peanut butter to my breakfast really helped me get out of my state of deprivation really quickly. The other factor at play here is exercise. I exercise almost every day so even though I am consuming more fat, I am not actually storing the fat for long, but rather I am seeing increased muscle gains. Also, I do not each much dairy.Here's a tip, because balance is key to everything; dont think about eating a balanced meal in terms of meat - grains - veggies. Think of a balanced meal in terms of protein - carbs - and fat. My biggest mistake was thatI always ate large portions of lean protein sources, whole grains, and vegetables which were great for providing me with carbs and protein, but the fat was lacking.

Diamond98 liked
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MemberMember
34
(@user465288)

Posted : 10/31/2015 3:28 pm

On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as "the high carb-low fat diet" may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne resulting from nutrient and fat deprivation.

YES yes yes and yes :D I had the same experience. I cleared my skin months ago with diet, and I wrote a lot about it on this forum, also why it works. But unfortunately it is kind of hard to convince people acne is insulin resistance, or pre pre type 2 diabetes. A diet high in fat promotes insulin sensitivity and thus cleares acne. 
My diet today eg. consisted of 2200 kcal. 60% fat (147 grams) 16% carbohydrates (90 g.) 20% protein (112 g) that is a lot of meat and a lot of fat, mostly paleo style. But I do eat oatmeal before lifting (carb cycling). Other than oatmeal, carbs are from high fiber vegs like broccoli, few carrots and cauliflower etc. 

Take a look at some of the research i've linked prior, and also here is some new studies from June and August 2015 (Metformin is a diabetes drug):
"(..)while 10 patients did not receive any treatment with metformin and were only followed up (group B). All patients of group A, after 6 months of metformin therapy, had a statistically significant improvement compared with patients in group B. Our study reveals the importance of diet and insulin resistance in acne pathogenesis, and underlines the possible use of metformin and diet as possible adjuvant therapy for male patients with acne."  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ced.12673/abstract;jsessionid=78BF4A1027885AA649009C79F8D2C8B2.f02t01?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

"All of the patients were in the severe acne group according to their scores on the global acne scoring scale. While fasting blood glucose levels were not different between the groups (..), the fasting insulin levels were significantly higher in the patient group than in the control group (..). Additionally, there was a highly significant difference between the patient and control groups in terms of HOMA values (..).

Conclusions

These results suggest that insulin resistance may have a role in the pathogenesis of acne."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/

(HOMA is a way of measuring insulin resistance and diabetes.)

 
 

Diamond98 liked
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MemberMember
51
(@diamond98)

Posted : 10/31/2015 3:43 pm

On 11/1/2015 at 2:07 AM, Drew_Drewson said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:45 AM, Diamond98 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as high carb-low fat may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne.

Your input is much appreciated and I will begin to add more healthy fats into my diet ASAP. Do you think a good start at implementing healthier fats into my diet would be to eat an avacado every morning and tuna at night? Thanks

Avocado and tuna are a good start. The key is having the right ratio of fat, protein, carbs, and fiber at each meal. If you are consuming mainly carbs one meal and mainly fat another meal,and mainly protein another meal then it wont be as beneficial. When I first started increasing my fat intake I found that eating a lot of fattier meats and adding100% natural peanut butter to my breakfast really helped me get out of my state of deprivation really quickly. The other factor at play here is exercise. I exercise almost every day so even though I am consuming more fat, I am not actually storing the fat for long, but rather I am seeing increased muscle gains. Also, I do not each much dairy.Here's a tip, because balance is key to everything; dont think about eating a balanced meal in terms of meat - grains - veggies. Think of a balanced meal in terms of protein - carbs - and fat. My biggest mistake was thatI always ate large portions of lean protein sources, whole grains, and vegetables which were great for providing me with carbs and protein, but the fat was lacking.

I really appreciate you sharing your experiences and some tips. It really means a lot to me as I am very open minded by this point in regards to making changes to my diet/routine. I plan on heading to the store tonight and buying some avacadoes and tuna. Thanks again for the advice, and I would love to hear some more tips and tricks from you oranybody else reading this! Thanks

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MemberMember
8
(@drew_drewson)

Posted : 10/31/2015 3:52 pm

On 11/1/2015 at 2:28 AM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as "the high carb-low fat diet" may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne resulting from nutrient and fat deprivation.

YES yes yes and yes :D I had the same experience. I cleared my skin months ago with diet, and I wrote a lot about it on this forum, also why it works. But unfortunately it is kind of hard to convince people acne is insulin resistance, or pre pre type 2 diabetes. A diet high in fat promotes insulin sensitivity and thus cleares acne. 
My diet today eg. consisted of 2200 kcal. 60% fat (147 grams) 16% carbohydrates (90 g.) 20% protein (112 g) that is a lot of meat and a lot of fat, mostly paleo style. But I do eat oatmeal before lifting (carb cycling). Other than oatmeal, carbs are from high fiber vegs like broccoli, few carrots and cauliflower etc. 

Take a look at some of the research i've linked prior, and also here is some new studies from June and August 2015 (Metformin is a diabetes drug):
"(..)while 10 patients did not receive any treatment with metformin and were only followed up (group B). All patients of group A, after 6 months of metformin therapy, had a statistically significant improvement compared with patients in group B. Our study reveals the importance of diet and insulin resistance in acne pathogenesis, and underlines the possible use of metformin and diet as possible adjuvant therapy for male patients with acne."  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ced.12673/abstract;jsessionid=78BF4A1027885AA649009C79F8D2C8B2.f02t01?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

"All of the patients were in the severe acne group according to their scores on the global acne scoring scale. While fasting blood glucose levels were not different between the groups (..), the fasting insulin levels were significantly higher in the patient group than in the control group (..). Additionally, there was a highly significant difference between the patient and control groups in terms of HOMA values (..).

Conclusions

These results suggest that insulin resistance may have a role in the pathogenesis of acne."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/

(HOMA is a way of measuring insulin resistance and diabetes.)

 
 

Glad to hear that you have made all of these interesting connections. My current diet is also very similar to yours.  Obviously protein and fat doesn't have to come from animal sources, but it was interesting to notice how I would eat high amounts of animal protein and fat one night and wake up with noticeably better skin the next morning. The connection between metabolic states and insulin resistance is very intriguing and I will research some more. Thank you for this. 

Quote
MemberMember
51
(@diamond98)

Posted : 10/31/2015 6:58 pm

On 11/1/2015 at 2:28 AM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as "the high carb-low fat diet" may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne resulting from nutrient and fat deprivation.

YES yes yes and yes :D I had the same experience. I cleared my skin months ago with diet, and I wrote a lot about it on this forum, also why it works. But unfortunately it is kind of hard to convince people acne is insulin resistance, or pre pre type 2 diabetes. A diet high in fat promotes insulin sensitivity and thus cleares acne. 
My diet today eg. consisted of 2200 kcal. 60% fat (147 grams) 16% carbohydrates (90 g.) 20% protein (112 g) that is a lot of meat and a lot of fat, mostly paleo style. But I do eat oatmeal before lifting (carb cycling). Other than oatmeal, carbs are from high fiber vegs like broccoli, few carrots and cauliflower etc. 

Take a look at some of the research i've linked prior, and also here is some new studies from June and August 2015 (Metformin is a diabetes drug):
"(..)while 10 patients did not receive any treatment with metformin and were only followed up (group B). All patients of group A, after 6 months of metformin therapy, had a statistically significant improvement compared with patients in group B. Our study reveals the importance of diet and insulin resistance in acne pathogenesis, and underlines the possible use of metformin and diet as possible adjuvant therapy for male patients with acne."  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ced.12673/abstract;jsessionid=78BF4A1027885AA649009C79F8D2C8B2.f02t01?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

"All of the patients were in the severe acne group according to their scores on the global acne scoring scale. While fasting blood glucose levels were not different between the groups (..), the fasting insulin levels were significantly higher in the patient group than in the control group (..). Additionally, there was a highly significant difference between the patient and control groups in terms of HOMA values (..).

Conclusions

These results suggest that insulin resistance may have a role in the pathogenesis of acne."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/

(HOMA is a way of measuring insulin resistance and diabetes.)

 
 

I know that it is a lot to ask, but do you think you could maybe post a meal to meal diet log on your profile or something? You seem to be extremely educated on the subject and I would love to see the intricacies and inner workings of your diet. Thanks

Quote
MemberMember
34
(@user465288)

Posted : 11/01/2015 5:21 am

On 11/1/2015 at 5:58 AM, Diamond98 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 2:28 AM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as "the high carb-low fat diet" may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne resulting from nutrient and fat deprivation.

YES yes yes and yes :D I had the same experience. I cleared my skin months ago with diet, and I wrote a lot about it on this forum, also why it works. But unfortunately it is kind of hard to convince people acne is insulin resistance, or pre pre type 2 diabetes. A diet high in fat promotes insulin sensitivity and thus cleares acne. 
My diet today eg. consisted of 2200 kcal. 60% fat (147 grams) 16% carbohydrates (90 g.) 20% protein (112 g) that is a lot of meat and a lot of fat, mostly paleo style. But I do eat oatmeal before lifting (carb cycling). Other than oatmeal, carbs are from high fiber vegs like broccoli, few carrots and cauliflower etc. 

Take a look at some of the research i've linked prior, and also here is some new studies from June and August 2015 (Metformin is a diabetes drug):
"(..)while 10 patients did not receive any treatment with metformin and were only followed up (group B). All patients of group A, after 6 months of metformin therapy, had a statistically significant improvement compared with patients in group B. Our study reveals the importance of diet and insulin resistance in acne pathogenesis, and underlines the possible use of metformin and diet as possible adjuvant therapy for male patients with acne."  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ced.12673/abstract;jsessionid=78BF4A1027885AA649009C79F8D2C8B2.f02t01?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

"All of the patients were in the severe acne group according to their scores on the global acne scoring scale. While fasting blood glucose levels were not different between the groups (..), the fasting insulin levels were significantly higher in the patient group than in the control group (..). Additionally, there was a highly significant difference between the patient and control groups in terms of HOMA values (..).

Conclusions

These results suggest that insulin resistance may have a role in the pathogenesis of acne."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/

(HOMA is a way of measuring insulin resistance and diabetes.)

 
 

I know that it is a lot to ask, but do you think you could maybe post a meal to meal diet log on your profile or something? You seem to be extremely educated on the subject and I would love to see the intricacies and inner workings of your diet. Thanks

The following may give you an idea of my typical diet.

Breakfast i usually eat twice. So I get up at 5 am, I eat a small bowl of uncooked steel cut oats and a small handfuld of almonds. Then of to the gym (for me that small portion of healthy carbohydrates will give me zits,  if I do not go to the gym, and use the carbs there.) 
After gym I will eat 2. breakfast: 2 eggs fried in olive oil, and more olive oil poured on top of that, some
vegetables (high fiber vegs) and high fat mayo (not a light version). 
Lunch and snack during the day is just different kinds of vegetables, and/or leftovers of last day dinner.
Dinner is some sort of meat (good quality and high fat ) like Chicken with skin, hamburger (only the meat), fatty fish or other types of non-processed meat with vegs and a lot of olive oil. I use all kinds of spices like chili, garlic, turmeric, curry, basil, thyme etc. I don't eat salt. Salt breaks me out.
I use a lot of olive oil, but I think you can use other sources for fat, coconut oil, even butter? To be honest I don't know. I am still a little bit scared of dairy.
Most of the vegs I consume is raw. 
Sometimes I do like the rural italiens and drink a cup of pure olive oil at breakfast, if you aren't crazy about the taste I do not recommend doing that.
About olive oil, you want to buy a good quality one, it tastes a lot better than the cheap ones, and also always buy extra virgin.

In the beginning of eating like this I had some trouble figuring out to make these foods really tasty, it was pretty dull and boring to eat. But after a while I learned to mix and match different foods and make them tasty and good. Also after a couple of weeks without sweets of any kind tomatoes and bell peppers started to taste almost like candy :)

I do not eat a lot of fruit, max a couple a week. sometimes before gym i may eat a green banana. 
I do eat some berries. Sometimes I buy a bag of frozen berries and a can of coconut milk. Mix it with a blender, and drink it as a smoothie. This is not an everyday thing.

I recommend you in the beginning use a site like nutritiondata.self.com here you can search for any food and see the micro and macro nutrients. 

 

Diamond98 liked
Quote
MemberMember
8
(@drew_drewson)

Posted : 11/01/2015 11:34 am

On 11/1/2015 at 4:21 PM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 5:58 AM, Diamond98 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 2:28 AM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as "the high carb-low fat diet" may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne resulting from nutrient and fat deprivation.

YES yes yes and yes :D I had the same experience. I cleared my skin months ago with diet, and I wrote a lot about it on this forum, also why it works. But unfortunately it is kind of hard to convince people acne is insulin resistance, or pre pre type 2 diabetes. A diet high in fat promotes insulin sensitivity and thus cleares acne. 
My diet today eg. consisted of 2200 kcal. 60% fat (147 grams) 16% carbohydrates (90 g.) 20% protein (112 g) that is a lot of meat and a lot of fat, mostly paleo style. But I do eat oatmeal before lifting (carb cycling). Other than oatmeal, carbs are from high fiber vegs like broccoli, few carrots and cauliflower etc. 

Take a look at some of the research i've linked prior, and also here is some new studies from June and August 2015 (Metformin is a diabetes drug):
"(..)while 10 patients did not receive any treatment with metformin and were only followed up (group B). All patients of group A, after 6 months of metformin therapy, had a statistically significant improvement compared with patients in group B. Our study reveals the importance of diet and insulin resistance in acne pathogenesis, and underlines the possible use of metformin and diet as possible adjuvant therapy for male patients with acne."  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ced.12673/abstract;jsessionid=78BF4A1027885AA649009C79F8D2C8B2.f02t01?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

"All of the patients were in the severe acne group according to their scores on the global acne scoring scale. While fasting blood glucose levels were not different between the groups (..), the fasting insulin levels were significantly higher in the patient group than in the control group (..). Additionally, there was a highly significant difference between the patient and control groups in terms of HOMA values (..).

Conclusions

These results suggest that insulin resistance may have a role in the pathogenesis of acne."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/

(HOMA is a way of measuring insulin resistance and diabetes.)

 
 

I know that it is a lot to ask, but do you think you could maybe post a meal to meal diet log on your profile or something? You seem to be extremely educated on the subject and I would love to see the intricacies and inner workings of your diet. Thanks

The following may give you an idea of my typical diet.

Breakfast i usually eat twice. So I get up at 5 am, I eat a small bowl of uncooked steel cut oats and a small handfuld of almonds. Then of to the gym (for me that small portion of healthy carbohydrates will give me zits,  if I do not go to the gym, and use the carbs there.) 
After gym I will eat 2. breakfast: 2 eggs fried in olive oil, and more olive oil poured on top of that, some
vegetables (high fiber vegs) and high fat mayo (not a light version). 
Lunch and snack during the day is just different kinds of vegetables, and/or leftovers of last day dinner.
Dinner is some sort of meat (good quality and high fat ) like Chicken with skin, hamburger (only the meat), fatty fish or other types of non-processed meat with vegs and a lot of olive oil. I use all kinds of spices like chili, garlic, turmeric, curry, basil, thyme etc. I don't eat salt. Salt breaks me out.
I use a lot of olive oil, but I think you can use other sources for fat, coconut oil, even butter? To be honest I don't know. I am still a little bit scared of dairy.
Most of the vegs I consume is raw. 
Sometimes I do like the rural italiens and drink a cup of pure olive oil at breakfast, if you aren't crazy about the taste I do not recommend doing that.
About olive oil, you want to buy a good quality one, it tastes a lot better than the cheap ones, and also always buy extra virgin.

In the beginning of eating like this I had some trouble figuring out to make these foods really tasty, it was pretty dull and boring to eat. But after a while I learned to mix and match different foods and make them tasty and good. Also after a couple of weeks without sweets of any kind tomatoes and bell peppers started to taste almost like candy :)

I do not eat a lot of fruit, max a couple a week. sometimes before gym i may eat a green banana. 
I do eat some berries. Sometimes I buy a bag of frozen berries and a can of coconut milk. Mix it with a blender, and drink it as a smoothie. This is not an everyday thing.

I recommend you in the beginning use a site like nutritiondata.self.com here you can search for any food and see the micro and macro nutrients. 

 

Ive been doing some research on insulin resistance and pre-diabetes and I was just wondering how/if you were able to diagnose yourself with one of these conditions. For me personally, insulin resistance doesn't make much sense -- I'm not saying its impossible since the causes are not definitive, but the most probable causes listed do not match up with me. I have always been very slim and very lean (always had a BMI around 4%) and do not have much fat deposits around my waist area. I'm in my early 20's and have been physically active consistently for most of my life as I used to play competitive sports and I am now lifting 5-6 times per week. The only red flag is that my grandmother does in fact have type 2 diabetes however I imagine her lifestyle being much more sedentary than mine and our body types are complete opposites. My question is, do you believe that you have one of these conditions? What symptoms did you show? Its explained that these conditions can be reversed through diet and lifestyle changes such as exercise and adopting a weight loss meal plan which involves limiting fat. The meal plan suggested when dealing with pre-diabetes is a contradiction to the diets we have adopted which involve increasing fat intake -- yet it was claimed that fat promotes insulin sensitivity thus reversing these conditions. Increasing my fat intake has definitely helped me which leads me to believe that its possible that insulin resistance or pre-diabetes aren't necessarily relevant if you see a correlation between your skin and increased fat consumption.  

Quote
MemberMember
51
(@diamond98)

Posted : 11/01/2015 1:47 pm

On 11/1/2015 at 4:21 PM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 5:58 AM, Diamond98 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 2:28 AM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as "the high carb-low fat diet" may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne resulting from nutrient and fat deprivation.

YES yes yes and yes :D I had the same experience. I cleared my skin months ago with diet, and I wrote a lot about it on this forum, also why it works. But unfortunately it is kind of hard to convince people acne is insulin resistance, or pre pre type 2 diabetes. A diet high in fat promotes insulin sensitivity and thus cleares acne. 
My diet today eg. consisted of 2200 kcal. 60% fat (147 grams) 16% carbohydrates (90 g.) 20% protein (112 g) that is a lot of meat and a lot of fat, mostly paleo style. But I do eat oatmeal before lifting (carb cycling). Other than oatmeal, carbs are from high fiber vegs like broccoli, few carrots and cauliflower etc. 

Take a look at some of the research i've linked prior, and also here is some new studies from June and August 2015 (Metformin is a diabetes drug):
"(..)while 10 patients did not receive any treatment with metformin and were only followed up (group B). All patients of group A, after 6 months of metformin therapy, had a statistically significant improvement compared with patients in group B. Our study reveals the importance of diet and insulin resistance in acne pathogenesis, and underlines the possible use of metformin and diet as possible adjuvant therapy for male patients with acne."  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ced.12673/abstract;jsessionid=78BF4A1027885AA649009C79F8D2C8B2.f02t01?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

"All of the patients were in the severe acne group according to their scores on the global acne scoring scale. While fasting blood glucose levels were not different between the groups (..), the fasting insulin levels were significantly higher in the patient group than in the control group (..). Additionally, there was a highly significant difference between the patient and control groups in terms of HOMA values (..).

Conclusions

These results suggest that insulin resistance may have a role in the pathogenesis of acne."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/

(HOMA is a way of measuring insulin resistance and diabetes.)

 
 

I know that it is a lot to ask, but do you think you could maybe post a meal to meal diet log on your profile or something? You seem to be extremely educated on the subject and I would love to see the intricacies and inner workings of your diet. Thanks

The following may give you an idea of my typical diet.

Breakfast i usually eat twice. So I get up at 5 am, I eat a small bowl of uncooked steel cut oats and a small handfuld of almonds. Then of to the gym (for me that small portion of healthy carbohydrates will give me zits,  if I do not go to the gym, and use the carbs there.) 
After gym I will eat 2. breakfast: 2 eggs fried in olive oil, and more olive oil poured on top of that, some
vegetables (high fiber vegs) and high fat mayo (not a light version). 
Lunch and snack during the day is just different kinds of vegetables, and/or leftovers of last day dinner.
Dinner is some sort of meat (good quality and high fat ) like Chicken with skin, hamburger (only the meat), fatty fish or other types of non-processed meat with vegs and a lot of olive oil. I use all kinds of spices like chili, garlic, turmeric, curry, basil, thyme etc. I don't eat salt. Salt breaks me out.
I use a lot of olive oil, but I think you can use other sources for fat, coconut oil, even butter? To be honest I don't know. I am still a little bit scared of dairy.
Most of the vegs I consume is raw. 
Sometimes I do like the rural italiens and drink a cup of pure olive oil at breakfast, if you aren't crazy about the taste I do not recommend doing that.
About olive oil, you want to buy a good quality one, it tastes a lot better than the cheap ones, and also always buy extra virgin.

In the beginning of eating like this I had some trouble figuring out to make these foods really tasty, it was pretty dull and boring to eat. But after a while I learned to mix and match different foods and make them tasty and good. Also after a couple of weeks without sweets of any kind tomatoes and bell peppers started to taste almost like candy :)

I do not eat a lot of fruit, max a couple a week. sometimes before gym i may eat a green banana. 
I do eat some berries. Sometimes I buy a bag of frozen berries and a can of coconut milk. Mix it with a blender, and drink it as a smoothie. This is not an everyday thing.

I recommend you in the beginning use a site like nutritiondata.self.com here you can search for any food and see the micro and macro nutrients. 

 

Thank you very much for that post. It has really inspired me to try this higher fat diet. I'm already a day in, I had a lot of olive oil yesterday along with a little coconut oil, and some fattier chicken some tuna. I plan on continuing this diet. Thanks a ton

Quote
MemberMember
8
(@drew_drewson)

Posted : 11/02/2015 12:42 pm

On 11/2/2015 at 12:47 AM, Diamond98 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 4:21 PM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 5:58 AM, Diamond98 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 2:28 AM, Esney3 said:
On 11/1/2015 at 1:39 AM, Drew_Drewson said:

Once I started adding more fat into my diet my skin improved tremendously in a short period of time. I saw a noticeable improvement in my skin tone in just 48 hours. The biggest misconception I think with the whole anti-acne diet is that when people throw the words "clean eating" around the first idea hat comes to mind is to reduce fat. The reason is probably because people associate fat with junk food and the assumption is that it will lead to breakouts. You probably already know, but you don't have to eat junk to get fat into your diet as there are many sources of healthy fats. The reality is that eating the right amount of fat is extremely beneficial. Most sources say that the amount of calories which come from fat should fall between 15-35% of your total calorie intake. Since I am a very active individual with little fat deposits on my body I found that doubling my fat intake from 10-20% of my total calories really helped me. Growing up I had always been scared to eat fat so I would always pick off the fat from my meat when the reality was that I was actually depriving my body of what it needed. Fruits, whole grains, vegetables, and chia seeds are great, but if you aren't consuming enough fat in your diet these foods can indirectly cause acne. Another theory is that many vitamins vital to skin health such as vitamin A, D, E, and K are fat soluble vitamins ([removed]) and require adequate fat in order to be properly absorbed and stored in the body. If you consume to many carbs and fiber and not enough fat while you have a low fat BMI then diets such as "the high carb-low fat diet" may not be sustainable for you in clearing acne in the long run and may actually be a primary cause of cystic acne resulting from nutrient and fat deprivation.

YES yes yes and yes :D I had the same experience. I cleared my skin months ago with diet, and I wrote a lot about it on this forum, also why it works. But unfortunately it is kind of hard to convince people acne is insulin resistance, or pre pre type 2 diabetes. A diet high in fat promotes insulin sensitivity and thus cleares acne. 
My diet today eg. consisted of 2200 kcal. 60% fat (147 grams) 16% carbohydrates (90 g.) 20% protein (112 g) that is a lot of meat and a lot of fat, mostly paleo style. But I do eat oatmeal before lifting (carb cycling). Other than oatmeal, carbs are from high fiber vegs like broccoli, few carrots and cauliflower etc. 

Take a look at some of the research i've linked prior, and also here is some new studies from June and August 2015 (Metformin is a diabetes drug):
"(..)while 10 patients did not receive any treatment with metformin and were only followed up (group B). All patients of group A, after 6 months of metformin therapy, had a statistically significant improvement compared with patients in group B. Our study reveals the importance of diet and insulin resistance in acne pathogenesis, and underlines the possible use of metformin and diet as possible adjuvant therapy for male patients with acne."  http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ced.12673/abstract;jsessionid=78BF4A1027885AA649009C79F8D2C8B2.f02t01?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

"All of the patients were in the severe acne group according to their scores on the global acne scoring scale. While fasting blood glucose levels were not different between the groups (..), the fasting insulin levels were significantly higher in the patient group than in the control group (..). Additionally, there was a highly significant difference between the patient and control groups in terms of HOMA values (..).

Conclusions

These results suggest that insulin resistance may have a role in the pathogenesis of acne."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4565837/

(HOMA is a way of measuring insulin resistance and diabetes.)

 
 

I know that it is a lot to ask, but do you think you could maybe post a meal to meal diet log on your profile or something? You seem to be extremely educated on the subject and I would love to see the intricacies and inner workings of your diet. Thanks

The following may give you an idea of my typical diet.

Breakfast i usually eat twice. So I get up at 5 am, I eat a small bowl of uncooked steel cut oats and a small handfuld of almonds. Then of to the gym (for me that small portion of healthy carbohydrates will give me zits,  if I do not go to the gym, and use the carbs there.) 
After gym I will eat 2. breakfast: 2 eggs fried in olive oil, and more olive oil poured on top of that, some
vegetables (high fiber vegs) and high fat mayo (not a light version). 
Lunch and snack during the day is just different kinds of vegetables, and/or leftovers of last day dinner.
Dinner is some sort of meat (good quality and high fat ) like Chicken with skin, hamburger (only the meat), fatty fish or other types of non-processed meat with vegs and a lot of olive oil. I use all kinds of spices like chili, garlic, turmeric, curry, basil, thyme etc. I don't eat salt. Salt breaks me out.
I use a lot of olive oil, but I think you can use other sources for fat, coconut oil, even butter? To be honest I don't know. I am still a little bit scared of dairy.
Most of the vegs I consume is raw. 
Sometimes I do like the rural italiens and drink a cup of pure olive oil at breakfast, if you aren't crazy about the taste I do not recommend doing that.
About olive oil, you want to buy a good quality one, it tastes a lot better than the cheap ones, and also always buy extra virgin.

In the beginning of eating like this I had some trouble figuring out to make these foods really tasty, it was pretty dull and boring to eat. But after a while I learned to mix and match different foods and make them tasty and good. Also after a couple of weeks without sweets of any kind tomatoes and bell peppers started to taste almost like candy :)

I do not eat a lot of fruit, max a couple a week. sometimes before gym i may eat a green banana. 
I do eat some berries. Sometimes I buy a bag of frozen berries and a can of coconut milk. Mix it with a blender, and drink it as a smoothie. This is not an everyday thing.

I recommend you in the beginning use a site like nutritiondata.self.com here you can search for any food and see the micro and macro nutrients. 

 

Thank you very much for that post. It has really inspired me to try this higher fat diet. I'm already a day in, I had a lot of olive oil yesterday along with a little coconut oil, and some fattier chicken some tuna. I plan on continuing this diet. Thanks a ton

Hey guys, just wanted to give you a heads up.
I've compiled a lot of research on metabolic states, and the hormones which induce acne and I've got some really interesting findings. If your acne, or anyone's acne (male or female) is in-fact being caused by hormonal imbalances then I am going to create my own thread later this week which will explain why exactly you are getting acne and how simple changes can get it under control. I'm really glad I posted on this thread cause it lead me to all of these findings. I witnessed an indisputable correlation between increased fat consumption and acne in myself through cause and effect methodologies however I was never able to explain exactly why this occurred. Now I can explain everything in detail and back it up with scientific evidence. I also know now as a fact that my acne was hormonal. And to you Esney, I know that you have been able to clear your skin, but i think I can help you out even further as you mentioned that eating to many carbs cause you to breakout if you don't use them right away. 
I'm excited about these findings so keep an eye out for my thread later this week. 

Diamond98 liked
Quote