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melell

Tca Cross, Improvement-Concerns.

I am having a lot of improvement with the tca cross method. Scars are most definitely shallower, I would say around about 50%, but all of those scars seem to be wider.

I have areas on my skin where it has become shallow enough, with no edges, to just look like a shadow on my skin.

Other scars that were small and very deep (typical icepicks) are now looking concave, with slightly raised edges.

I am a bit unsure of how to go about repairing this. I have tried 30% tca over the entire area (scars are cluster on apples of cheeks), and it does seem to make it more even, but it would take a good deal more of these to make it entirely even. I am actually a little concerned that the tca makes contact inside the shallow scar and in the area around so it is not really smoothing out at all- ultimately skin is peeling from outside and inside the scar.

Any advice on how to tackle this?

Should I continue with tca peels, and try to avoid the area inside the scars?

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how long has it been since the tca cross peeled off ?

Around a month, and about three days since the 30% peeled off.

Will post new pics to my original thread.

Just wondering if anyone else experienced the same thing.

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how long has it been since the tca cross peeled off ?

Around a month, and about three days since the 30% peeled off.

Will post new pics to my original thread.

Just wondering if anyone else experienced the same thing.

my situation is the same thing as yours

i want to do a 2 layer 30% tca peel but its only been 21 days from my tca cross i wanna wait atleast 3 months before i do something

did it help even your scars more ?

also it takes a couple months for the scar to look more softer from tca cross

Edited by LeadingForce

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Sorry I know the lights are different here, I am struggling to get a good picture because of the time of day. It is hard to see in the photo, but they are MUCH shallower/wider. The first picture is from today.

I hope someone else has had experience with this.

I heal really really fast so am quite aggressive with the peels and cross.

My last 30% peel was with two layers and LOTS of frosting-it was all peeled off completely within three days. I know at my derm they will do a medium tca peel fortnightly, and in the tca cross study they were doing it fortnightly too.

Edited by melell

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Sorry I know the lights are different here, I am struggling to get a good picture because of the time of day. It is hard to see in the photo, but they are MUCH shallower/wider. The first picture is from today.

I hope someone else has had experience with this.

I heal really really fast so am quite aggressive with the peels and cross.

My last 30% peel was with two layers and LOTS of frosting-it was all peeled off completely within three days. I know at my derm they will do a medium tca peel fortnightly, and in the tca cross study they were doing it fortnightly too.

just because the scabs from tca cross and the peel from tca peel fall off doesnt mean the healing process is done it takes month for collagen remodeling after a aggressive treatment

Edited by LeadingForce

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Sorry I know the lights are different here, I am struggling to get a good picture because of the time of day. It is hard to see in the photo, but they are MUCH shallower/wider. The first picture is from today.

I hope someone else has had experience with this.

I heal really really fast so am quite aggressive with the peels and cross.

My last 30% peel was with two layers and LOTS of frosting-it was all peeled off completely within three days. I know at my derm they will do a medium tca peel fortnightly, and in the tca cross study they were doing it fortnightly too.

just because the scabs from tca cross and the peel from tca peel fall off doesnt mean the healing process is done it takes month for collagen remodeling after a aggressive treatment

I understand that-I think everyone who has done even a small amount of research into these things are aware of the collagen regeneration process. I am skeptical of that also, I know many of the studies can be considered biased-especially those centered around the cosmetic field. It is really important not to make assumptions on collagen synthesis. I am not trained, and I really do believe it is extremely difficult to understand the process when we are looking at biological science- the extracellular matrix, the response of the cells is dependent on a lot of factors..

All I meant that I recover very quickly initially-the down time for me isn't long.

I am only going off the guidelines from my derm. I was skeptical of the advice at first, thinking fortnightly was too frequently, but after researching I noticed that this was very common practice at most derms.

Because of my lack of understanding of how it works at a cellular level I am going off what I am seeing visibly. I don't want to be jumping to conclusions about anything.

I am very interested in the experiences of others, both good and bad.

So would you say I should expect even more improvement over the next few weeks? And it would be unproductive to continue with tca peels at this point?

Sorry didn't answer your questions before.

I am seeing my skin texture as more even, and I can say that my scars already look much softer, so for me it didn't take several months to see improvement- but I am guessing that the improvement will continue over the coming months.

I was wondering if anyone knew much about what happens with over-treatment. From looking around I haven't seen fortnightly frequency as being detrimental at all- what types of things would be a sign that it is harming rather than helping?

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there should be improvements but i dont know if the tca peel will affect the tca cross healing thats why i wanted to wait couple months first but you should received improvements hopefully after 1 month then another tca peel if you want but just saying let your skin heal instead of doing agressive treatments over and over

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there should be improvements but i dont know if the tca peel will affect the tca cross healing thats why i wanted to wait couple months first but you should received improvements hopefully after 1 month then another tca peel if you want but just saying let your skin heal instead of doing agressive treatments over and over

So treating aggressively is definitely detrimental to the collagen regeneration process? Can you point me in the direction of studies that have demonstrated this? Not debating the point, I would just be really interested in understanding how that works.

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there should be improvements but i dont know if the tca peel will affect the tca cross healing thats why i wanted to wait couple months first but you should received improvements hopefully after 1 month then another tca peel if you want but just saying let your skin heal instead of doing agressive treatments over and over

So treating aggressively is definitely detrimental to the collagen regeneration process? Can you point me in the direction of studies that have demonstrated this? Not debating the point, I would just be really interested in understanding how that works.

its common sense you shouldnt keep bashing on your skin when its not even close to half of its healing otherwise theres no point in all these treatments u need to wait and let your skin renew itself before u harm it again

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there should be improvements but i dont know if the tca peel will affect the tca cross healing thats why i wanted to wait couple months first but you should received improvements hopefully after 1 month then another tca peel if you want but just saying let your skin heal instead of doing agressive treatments over and over

So treating aggressively is definitely detrimental to the collagen regeneration process? Can you point me in the direction of studies that have demonstrated this? Not debating the point, I would just be really interested in understanding how that works.

its common sense you shouldnt keep bashing on your skin when its not even close to half of its healing otherwise theres no point in all these treatments u need to wait and let your skin renew itself before u harm it again

You are missing my point, I am not debating the point. I am asking if you have any info on how this happens on a cellular level. What is the actual process- how exactly does it prevent healing and make it all a waste of time?

You seem to be very uninformed leading force (not that I am informed), I find it odd that you are so quick to give advice so often, but offer nothing other than opinions based on word of mouth. To make a conclusion based on uninformed 'logic' is fallicious, the philosophy of logical tells us that, so you are really making no sense at all. How is that productive?

If you have done research please share, I am hesitant to take your advice when you don't seem to have any real knowledge about it- especially when the advice you offer is much different from my derm.

If I listened to you I would be thinking that I have damaged my skin, and it has been a waste of time.

It would be good if you could share your personal experiences (ie damage to your skin) as some sort of evidence to your point, or if you could share reliable information to explain your logic. Otherwise you are not helpful at all.

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Mellel, are your scars ice pick? The scars are shallower and less noticeable indeed. Keep up working on them and you will have perfect skin :)

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there should be improvements but i dont know if the tca peel will affect the tca cross healing thats why i wanted to wait couple months first but you should received improvements hopefully after 1 month then another tca peel if you want but just saying let your skin heal instead of doing agressive treatments over and over

So treating aggressively is definitely detrimental to the collagen regeneration process? Can you point me in the direction of studies that have demonstrated this? Not debating the point, I would just be really interested in understanding how that works.

its common sense you shouldnt keep bashing on your skin when its not even close to half of its healing otherwise theres no point in all these treatments u need to wait and let your skin renew itself before u harm it again

You are missing my point, I am not debating the point. I am asking if you have any info on how this happens on a cellular level. What is the actual process- how exactly does it prevent healing and make it all a waste of time?

You seem to be very uninformed leading force (not that I am informed), I find it odd that you are so quick to give advice so often, but offer nothing other than opinions based on word of mouth. To make a conclusion based on uninformed 'logic' is fallicious, the philosophy of logical tells us that, so you are really making no sense at all. How is that productive?

If you have done research please share, I am hesitant to take your advice when you don't seem to have any real knowledge about it- especially when the advice you offer is much different from my derm.

If I listened to you I would be thinking that I have damaged my skin, and it has been a waste of time.

It would be good if you could share your personal experiences (ie damage to your skin) as some sort of evidence to your point, or if you could share reliable information to explain your logic. Otherwise you are not helpful at all.

there is no need for logic in skin

even from studies , everyone skin is different and everyone gets a different response its never a guarantee everything is unpredictable

but if you wanna continue with your treatment go on and best of luck :)

Edited by LeadingForce

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I think LeadingForce has your best interest in mind.

Which TCA Cross study combines bi-weekly 30% TCA peels with Cross treatment? Do you have a link?

I am curious to know their reasoning behind how attacking the skin every two weeks with 30% TCA, following and between TCA Cross sessions, could be beneficial and lead to proper dermal collagen remodeling. I've heard of following up a cross treatment with laser, but even with that study, they waited longer than 2 weeks and didn't do a series back-to-back.

I had a few TCA peels done at less than 30%, as well as a few sessions of mircodermabrasion, before TCA Cross, and believe it contributed to the damage I received from Cross. I don't think my skin could handle the higher concentration TCA weeks after a series of medium depth peels. I suffered chemical burns and areas that caved when 90% TCA was applied to my scars. If I were you, I would be concerned by this risk, more than anything.

How many patients has your doctor treated using this approach? I'm just curious.

Edited by *Inspired*

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With advances in the knowledge of wound healing, as well as the development of better materials and techniques, many options have become available in the treatment of patients with unsightly scars. Nevertheless, no technique has been devised to allow total and permanent removal or effacement of scars. Patients should be counseled to understand that the goal of scar revision is to replace one scar for another to improve the appearance and the acceptability of the scar.

The wound healing process is divided into three stages. In the inflammatory phase, the release of inflammatory mediators results in migration of fibroblasts into the wound. During the proliferative phase, an extracellular matrix is formed that is comprised of proteoglycans, fibronectin, hyaluronic acid, and collagen secreted by fibroblasts. Angiogenesis and re-epithelialization of the wound also occur during the proliferative phase. Collagen and the extracellular matrix mature in the remodeling phase, and the wound contracts. Wound strength reaches 20% of its pre-injury strength at three weeks. The ultimate tensile strength of the wound is 70–80% of that of the uninjured skin.

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With advances in the knowledge of wound healing, as well as the development of better materials and techniques, many options have become available in the treatment of patients with unsightly scars. Nevertheless, no technique has been devised to allow total and permanent removal or effacement of scars. Patients should be counseled to understand that the goal of scar revision is to replace one scar for another to improve the appearance and the acceptability of the scar.

The wound healing process is divided into three stages. In the inflammatory phase, the release of inflammatory mediators results in migration of fibroblasts into the wound. During the proliferative phase, an extracellular matrix is formed that is comprised of proteoglycans, fibronectin, hyaluronic acid, and collagen secreted by fibroblasts. Angiogenesis and re-epithelialization of the wound also occur during the proliferative phase. Collagen and the extracellular matrix mature in the remodeling phase, and the wound contracts. Wound strength reaches 20% of its pre-injury strength at three weeks. The ultimate tensile strength of the wound is 70–80% of that of the uninjured skin.

Please explain where this references freqeuncy as damaging?

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Knowing how long it takes skin to heal and collagen remodeling to mature, I would think a fortnightly 30% peel has risks. However, if you want a professional opinion, not the personal opinion of informed members on this forum, you should probably ask doctors on a more appropriate forum, like RealSelf.

These doctors wouldn't repeat a 35% TCA peel in less than 6 months:

http://www.realself.com/question/interval-between-tca-peels

There are also plenty of TCA peel studies and articles on the Internet. I have never seen one that recommended repeating a 30% peel every two weeks or before the skin has fully healed.

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With advances in the knowledge of wound healing, as well as the development of better materials and techniques, many options have become available in the treatment of patients with unsightly scars. Nevertheless, no technique has been devised to allow total and permanent removal or effacement of scars. Patients should be counseled to understand that the goal of scar revision is to replace one scar for another to improve the appearance and the acceptability of the scar.

The wound healing process is divided into three stages. In the inflammatory phase, the release of inflammatory mediators results in migration of fibroblasts into the wound. During the proliferative phase, an extracellular matrix is formed that is comprised of proteoglycans, fibronectin, hyaluronic acid, and collagen secreted by fibroblasts. Angiogenesis and re-epithelialization of the wound also occur during the proliferative phase. Collagen and the extracellular matrix mature in the remodeling phase, and the wound contracts. Wound strength reaches 20% of its pre-injury strength at three weeks. The ultimate tensile strength of the wound is 70–80% of that of the uninjured skin.

Please explain where this references freqeuncy as damaging?

Wound strength reaches 20% of its pre-injury strength at three weeks. The ultimate tensile strength of the wound is 70–80% of that of the uninjured skin.

just letting you know at 3 weeks your skin is only at 20% wound strength

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