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Mr Wiggles

All the fuss--I end it now

Tylenol(Acetaminophen) is NOT an NSAID. That is so basic I knew it off the top of my head.

You minored in pharmacology?! I doubt that or you would surely know tylenol is not classified as an NSAID.

You are a fraud.

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I am not sure what to say I just read the entire thread and forget all the good or bad things about BP. (personally I do not use BP) I question Mr. Wiggles, his tone and personality was very erratic from post to post.

Something is unsettling about that.

One more thing, if BP is bad then why do doctors and dermatologists prescribe very high percentages of BP before they prescribe alternative products such as differin.

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Besides there are many products out there with the same amount of BP, like Neutrogena on the spot, and many more..besides i cand eal with my skin aging, but at least i'll be clear

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Tylenol(Acetaminophen) is NOT an NSAID. That is so basic I knew it off the top of my head.

You minored in pharmacology?! I doubt that or you would surely know tylenol is not classified as an NSAID.

You are a fraud.

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I don't see why the credentials of Mr. Wiggles should come into play when he has posted snippets of scientific studies about BP and it's effects.

regardless of whether he is or is not a graduate student...his concern and his opinions are still nonetheless valid.

why attack the messenger when the message itself is the one you should be analyzing and dissecting?

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^ well, I can only suggest that it seems that many users genuinely feel that Mr Wiggles intentions are trollish....that is his purpose is to incite controversy or conflict, or cause annoyance or offense. I think there is some evidence for this not in what Mr Wiggles chooses to say (since many have raised similar concerns, many times before) but in how he has chosen to say it. Which is why Mr Wiggles has largely become the topic of this thread rather than bp and bp safety concerns. It is possible that Mr Wiggles isn't a troll, but has unwittingly done a disservice to the topic he is so impassioned about by inadvertently conducting himself in an unsymapthetic manner. Personally I am a little unclear on which it is. I do not however see him as a matyr...which is apparently how he currently sees himself.

........

As for the analysing the "message". It seems that early in the piece Dan had satisfactorily responded to attacks on his credibility, satisfactorily "proven" that his product meets standards required by the FDA and satisfactorily proven his understanding that given the current knowledge available the FDA does not regard BP as having any carcinogenic potential in humans and nor does he.

As an occasional bp user myself (tho not currently) I haven't yet read anything that makes me believe that BP causes "a ten fold increase in the skin aging process" as Mr Wiggles claimed. I have not drawn anything from the research thus far "that your skin will look like a 3rd degree burn victim by the time you hit your 30's".

However given that there is research that has raised concerns about the safety of benzoyl peroxide on hairless laboratory mice - which I knew long before this thread. I regularly monitor research findings as they become available on PubMed and I encourage all users of acne products to do the same. If you feel concerned about the safety of bp...or any product (that a reasonable amount of investigation won't put to rest) then I suggest you do not use it.

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I don't see why the credentials of Mr. Wiggles should come into play when he has posted snippets of scientific studies about BP and it's effects.

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I know its not a traditional cox I cox II inhibitor, but it does have a mild antiinflammatory effect, and it is not related to any steroid anti inflammatory drugs. Tylenol is constantly lumped in with NSAID's all the time. Although it isnt your traditional NSAID (naprox, asprin, advil etc), it still shares some minor qualities.

Thanks for your profound insight, my god fearing friend...

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I have never heard a Dr. lump it in with NSAID's ; they are two totally different classes of drugs. It has NO anti-inflammatory effects whatsoever. This non anti- inflammatory action is due to its minimal effects on peripheral prostaglandin synthesis.

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Sorry but you are incorrect, aspin (acetylsalicylic acid) while it does have nsia action and is classed as a nsaid, it is not commonly used as a nsaid due to better drugs on the market. In regular doses Asprin has about the same effect as other NSAID, however other drugs are better tolerated. For asprin to exibit anti-i properties like other NSAID at least 3.6g daily is required as there is little anti-i effect below 3g daily. Anti-i doses of asprin can cause salicylate intoxication, gastro-intestinal upsets such as, nausea, dyspepsia and bleeding and other NSAID have less side effects.

NSAID commonly used would be drugs like, Ibuprofen, Aceclofenac, Acemtacin, Azapropazone, Celecoxib, Dexketoprofen, Diclofenac Sodium, Diflunisal, Etodolac, Etoricoxib, Fenbufen, Fenoprofen, Flurbiprofen, Indometacin, Ketoprfen, Mefenamic Acid, Meloxicam, Nabumetone, Naproxen, Piroxicam, Sulindac, Tenoxicam, Tiaprofenic Acid and Valdecoxib.

Fejao x

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Mr. Wriggles, if you only knew the inner pain that acne causes! I get so depressed when I'm in public. This website and Dan's BP gel are the only few things that I can resort to so that I can be releived of this pain. i don't give a fuck if i have wrinkles when I have 40, just as long as I can look in people's eyes its ok! so please leave this website alone.

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Well I have used bp for years now and as far as I am concerned it has not aged me at all, most people guess me younger than I an by about 4 years, yes it could be genetic however everything is influenced by eviroment, however bp has not had a major effect on my skin in regards to wrinkles. Anyway nothing a bit of laser and cosmetic surgery would not fix lol !

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I had the same revelation a year or so ago. It would seem to be a very cheap and effective way of controlling acne. Nice call Oz smile.gif, h202 has been shown to be better for people who do not tolerate BP, and it is dirt cheap!!!

Skin tolerability and efficacy of combination therapy with hydrogen peroxide stabilized cream and adapalene gel in comparison with benzoyl peroxide cream and adapalene gel in common acne. A randomized, investigator-masked, controlled trial.

Capizzi R, Landi F, Milani M, Amerio P.

Clinica Dermatologica, Policlinico Universitario Agostino Gemelli, Rome, Italy.

BACKGROUND: Combination therapy with antiseptics such as benzoyl peroxide (BP) and topical retinoids is widely used as first-line treatment for acne vulgaris (AV). However, these combinations could have a suboptimal skin tolerability. Recently, a new formulation of hydrogen peroxide (HP) 1% in stabilized cream (Crystacide; Mipharm, Milan, Italy) became available. A previous clinical study has shown that HP cream monotherapy presents a better skin tolerability in comparison with BP in patients with mild AV. OBJECTIVES: To evaluate the tolerability and the efficacy of combination therapy with HP cream and adapalene 0.1% gel in comparison with the combination of BP 4% cream and adapalene 0.1% gel in the treatment of mild to moderate AV. METHODS: In a randomized, investigator-blinded trial, 52 patients (mean +/- SD age 25 +/- 6 years; 19 men and 33 women) with AV were randomly assigned to HP cream and adapalene gel (group HP + A) or to BP cream and adapalene gel (group BP + A), for eight consecutive weeks. Efficacy was assessed by total (TL), inflammatory (IL) and noninflammatory (NL) lesion counts performed at baseline and weeks 4 and 8. Tolerability was assessed by evaluating skin erythema, burning and dryness at weeks 4 and 8. RESULTS: All patients completed the study. At baseline, the mean +/- SD numbers of TL, IL and NL were 44 +/- 9, 25 +/- 7 and 19 +/- 6 in group HP + A and 40 +/- 9, 21 +/- 7 and 19 +/- 9 in group BP + A, respectively. At the end of the treatment period, TL, IL and NL were reduced by 93%, 92% and 95%, respectively, in group HP + A and by 88%, 86% and 90%, respectively, in group BP + A. A significantly (P = 0.0025) greater reduction in NL was observed in group HP + A in comparison with group BP + A. Tolerability was significantly better in group HP + A in comparison with group BP + A (P = 0.02). Skin dryness and burning sensation were more frequent in group BP + A. CONCLUSIONS: The combination of adapalene and HP cream is an effective topical treatment regimen in mild to moderate AV. This combination has shown a better tolerability profile in comparison with the combination of BP and adapalene.

PMID: 15327558 [PubMed - in process]

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okay, the part I just highlighted in bold (my highlight) is an oxymoron.  DAMN.  Now people are going to start wondering if I just learned the word....

You're saying people are refusing to educate themselves, yet there IS the presense of a scientific debate (or am I seeing double?) where Mr. Wiggles is simply being asked to say a thing or two about his own background.  This is ridiculous.  He kept pressuring Dan for his papers, so to speak, until Dan scanned it in and posted, yet he gets irritated when Vanessa et al ask for his own credentials?  Just ridiculous.  He shouldn't have asked any questions he wasn't himself prepared to answer.

And, RE: H202

I'm not a pharmacist nor do I have any kind of medical background tongue.gif  But I think if that medicine were so effective in fighting acne, not only Dan but rather everyone in the acne fighting business would be cashing in on it?  Basically I don't understand the question and why you're singling out Dan to answer it.

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when you take a quote from a noted source and combine it or follow it with arrogence, it loses alot of credibility doubt.gif

hmm, arrogence is too strong a word, hope I did'nt step on any toes

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LOL Ozpower!  You're a hard task-master. Seems like Dan is getting more than enough flack for daring to produce one acne product...and now you are demanding why he isn't producing more?

I have read about this stuff...tho it is only in test phase now isn't it?

Anyhoo if you could get your hands on some give it a try and keep a log on the site.

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when you take a quote from a noted source and combine it or follow it with arrogence,  it loses alot of credibility  doubt.gif

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I agree, and arrogence was too strong a word,

I guess I just ment that if you are trying to help or encourage others to take notice you have to be more appealing, does that make sence? eusa_think.gif

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re. h202 - it's cheap and in stronger solutions it'll cause damage, the general public is not intelligent enough nor mature enough to use h202 on a safe basis. Not to mention it's dirt cheap and easily available, kind of puts every other acne topical out of business with prehaps the exclusion of sayilic acid.

See in my post the word 'few', did i say everyone? Go reread the post i made which you responded too, now this is fact, you calling me oxymoron and making a statement which now indicates you are one, try reading a post in future. Mr wiggles is fine, hes allowed to question Dan, i didn't see Dan getting all uptight and it's his site, exciercise some maturity child.

I'd also like to add, maybe he is a forum troll because he adds nothing but criticises, regardless if hes right or wrong, if you can't contribute without continuously berating someone or an idea, then his puropse here is pretty limited.

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I found another study on BP and free radical damage/sun damage. Here

That being said, I'm aware of the risks and I use it anyway. I use topical Vitamin C to try to counteract some of the damage. That and BHA keep my skin clear so I use it. Thanks for a great site Dan!

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