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Does anyone call BS on these? I can't make up my mind.

I don't know how many treatments he had but the website said it was the Mixto laser.

Thanks for your input!

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post-176919-0-00521100-1360473015_thumb.

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Looks almost like the dude in the top pic got a tan to help blend the existing scars with his skintone

and then somebody smudged the rest through program.

I'm a little wary of laser treatments and the expense of them.

I'd love it if they actually showed a video of the procedure being done on a real person

and then the after results the next week or so.

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Those pictures don't look 100% accurate (different positions and lighting), but results like that are attainable via lasers (70% total improvement) - after multiple treatments, with different treatments combined and if everything goes well. Keep in mind that attainable is not equal to the "average" results people get though.

This is the best improvement i've personally seen on this forum coming from lasers:

You can read some more stuff i've posted about lasers:

Looks almost like the dude in the top pic got a tan to help blend the existing scars with his skintone

and then somebody smudged the rest through program.

I'm a little wary of laser treatments and the expense of them.

I'd love it if they actually showed a video of the procedure being done on a real person

and then the after results the next week or so.

Edited by acnescar123

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Yes I agree with you acnescar. The problem is finding a doctor competent enough to really use the lasers to their full potential.

Punch out method, shoulder technique, erbium for ablating edges as well as CO2 for collagen growth. Just simple resurfacing passes don't cut it.

Ugh, maybe I should just go to med school instead of grad school and fix myself haha.

I think Dragz had great improvement. But I also think he's making his scars look worse than they really were. Not intentionally of course, but seeing other photos of him he had minimal scars to begin with.

Edited by dragonn

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I personally think doing fractional co2 + activefx/restore + subcision of the deeper scars (all in one treatment) is a good way to go. Repeat 2-3X and it should give decent results. Of course things like laser settings + good doctors come into play as well.

Edited by acnescar123

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As ever the lighting is different as between the two photos and it may have been touched up a bit. Unfortunately I don't think before and afters can be trusted.

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I personally think doing fractional co2 + activefx/restore + subcision of the deeper scars (all in one treatment) is a good way to go. Repeat 2-3X and it should give decent results. Of course things like laser settings + good doctors come into play as well.

I've been thinking 5-6 treatments of deepfx with the smallest spot size possible applied only to scars each time followed by scar edge sculpting with either a CO2 or erbium (ablative) laser, 3 months in between each. Then maybe an activefx to smooth everything over. And yes, subcision if scars are deep enough. I think with that, people could get 70-90% easily. But I've yet to find a doctor advertising such intense work to really correct scars.

I don't think complete treatment of the face, like with say Re:pair is necessary. If the whole concept behind fractional lasers is that they work better being fractional, then why not treat the area fractionally as well? Only treat the scars. Your healthy tissue doesn't need to be ablated at 1.5mm deep.

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From what I understand (based on reading stuff on lasers) some of the surrounding tissue needs to be ablated as well, for two reasons. 1. In order to make sure there isn't a huge difference in color between the scars and healthy tissue and 2. it helps in the improvement/healing as the surrounding tissue helps plump out the scars. I agree that the whole face shouldn't be done if you don't need it though. Like in the picture above I think you should only do the 1/2 of the cheek and leave the sides + jaw + rest alone. I also think the laser is supposed to burn off the edges and just pointing it directly on the scar won't do that?

There was a medical study where they did an old school co2 to the actual scars, fractional to the rest of the scarred area and then finally activefx to the full face - which depending on your skin, is a possible option as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22618157

"Sixty-four percent of the patients (28/44) had an improvement of between 51 and 75 % after more than two sessions of the combination of laser treatments. The average overall improvement was 52.50 % (±12.25 %). Three patients achieved improvement of >75 %."

Edited by acnescar123

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Biologically speaking, I'm not sure whether or not I buy into the necessity of ablating healthy tissue argument. There are two good arguments for both sides that I can think of so I think I would just agree that treating the area, like you said, would suffice but not full face. I would definitely hit individual scars hard too, though.

That's a good study. There's also a doctor that advocates what I'm talking about in New York, I think. He calls it FAST; however his before and after pics were taken in different lighting, different angles what have you so I don't know how good his results actually were. And all of his patients only had one treatment that he shows so.

Part of me feels like getting high improvements with acne scarring is absolutely possible and can be the norm. It's just finding a doctor willing to treat scars differently from wrinkles and as a patient, being willing to do the procedure multiple times.

The big issue that I am dealing with in all of this is that I have type IV skin.

I really don't think fractional co2 lasers are very good at softening scar edges. Ablating tiny columns does great to raise the scar from the dermis up but on the epidermal superficial edges it won't really ablate them off. Almost every doctor I've heard of that talks about smoothing edges uses a fully ablative erbium because it is more attracted to the water in the epidermis than co2. Or like Dragz doctor who uses a "sculpting head" which is the fully ablative mode on the Mixto laser.

Edited by dragonn

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Those pictures don't look 100% accurate (different positions and lighting), but results like that are attainable via lasers (70% total improvement) - after multiple treatments, with different treatments combined and if everything goes well. Keep in mind that attainable is not equal to the "average" results people get though.

This is the best improvement i've personally seen on this forum coming from lasers:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/315693-asian-doing-mixto-for-acne-scars-on-cheeks/

You can read some more stuff i've posted about lasers:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/313698-scarred-skin-log/page-2#entry3323703

Looks almost like the dude in the top pic got a tan to help blend the existing scars with his skintone

and then somebody smudged the rest through program.

I'm a little wary of laser treatments and the expense of them.

I'd love it if they actually showed a video of the procedure being done on a real person

and then the after results the next week or so.

There are lots of videos on youtube of the procedure & of some of the peoples results. Search fractional co2, fraxel repair, smartxide dot. Also showing results a week after the procedure would be useless in terms of improvement as there is still swelling and actual results aren't visible until 6 months after.

Thanks for the info. I tend to think out loud before looking into it myself...heh. blush.png

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