Oh I forgot to add that they did take before pics. I have a tendency to block out any exposure to cameras.

Congratulations on taking this first important step!

Thanks Matt. You are so kind. Would you please tell me on what day you started suctioning and perhaps your routine (amount of time, once/twice a day, etc.)? Also, I know you have had TCA peels. Did you do home peels or have them done professionally? Thank you in advance.

What type of scars do you have?

"What type of scars do you have?"

I don't really know. I guess more shallow type scarring. I don't think they are rolling scars. The dermatologist doesn't think I will see the improvement that I want by subcision alone which I understand. I just felt that it was an important first step to break up any underlying scar tissue. And, I assume, according to the popping noise there was tethering. At the very least, this will help rebuild some collagen. I will also be having an ablative procedure which the doctor said will yield good results. I think it was waitingforacure that said in his subcision, laviv, laser post that he believes subcision would be helpful for any scarring and I agree. So though I don't think this will be a one and done magic bullet, I do believe that it will be of benefit.

Day 2: Today I am still swollen and bruised. One would not be "street ready" at this point. I look like I have a goiter on my left cheek but I think there will be good improvement there. My right cheek seems like it might need another round of subcision. I will decide that after I heal from my upcoming TCA peel. No pain today. I was concerned it would hurt after the numbing cream wore off but so far no problems. The most difficult thing right now is not buying into the idea of an immediate cure all. It's important to remember that this is a process and where you are today isn't where you have to be tomorrow, that small incremental changes are significant and that PATIENCE is mandatory in healing.

Have a good day everyone.

Thanks Matt. You are so kind. Would you please tell me on what day you started suctioning and perhaps your routine (amount of time, once/twice a day, etc.)? Also, I know you have had TCA peels. Did you do home peels or have them done professionally? Thank you in advance.

 

I began to suction my face on day two and did twice a day for two weeks.

I purchased 25 percent TCA from Skin Obsession and I've done two at home peels. This is a great peel if you really want to peel. Be sure to clean your face well and remove all soap residue and oil or your peel will not work as well.

You'll need five days to fully recover and stay out of the sun to avoid hyper pigmentation.

I used a portable fan to blow on my face as this really burns.......

Be sure to take supplements which support collagen development and use topical serums as well.

Matt

Matt,

Thank you for your help and your time.

Day 5: I think I have a subcutaneous hematoma on my left cheek. I am choosing not to worry until later in the week. I am still very bruised but that is expected. We will see how this possible hematoma situation plays out.

How are you 451? Did you add the suction method with your subcision?

I appreciate you and the other members for your honest accounts on subcision and taking the time to post.

I am having my first subcision in March-in approx 8 weeks.

Sorry about the delayed response, polecat. I haven't been on here in a while. Good luck on your upcoming subcision. I am so excited for you. You are on the path to healing. Please keep us posted on your journey.

It has been one month since my first subcision and I think things are going well. I went to the dermatologist today for a TCA peel and my derm seemed pleased with the results thus far. He said that the best way to identify scarring is to look at it from the side. He stood in front of me and turned my head so I was staring diagonally. He said he didn't really notice much indention now. At least I think that's what I heard. I was concerned about some bumps under the skin but he thoroughly examined the cheek and didn't feel anything and wasn't able to see any lumps so I'm going to not worry about it. There is still a lot of redness (from past breakouts, not the subcision) and he thinks that might be affecting my perception of my skin.

Anyway. I had a 20% TCA peel for textural issues. Before the peel happened, Dr. Berlin discussed what I wanted to achieve. I really appreciated that because I got the impression that he wouldn't do it (take my money) if I wasn't going to get what I wanted from it. I did learn that chemical peels don't help with redness. They are great for brown (freckles), sunspots and textural "challenges".

THE PEEL:

Two of his nurses scrubbed my face with alcohol which was probably the worst part as I detest that smell. Then the doctor came in and the peel began. He let me listen to music but the ear buds fell out so that was that. He also gave me this hose that blew cool air and that helped a lot. For the first few minutes there wasn't really much burning or pain. He waited a bit THEN applied some more. That's when it got real. My eyes involuntarily started watering and I felt the burning. He stopped at that point and the nurse put wet, cold bandages on my face. The pain happened fast but also subsided quickly. He discussed after care which is just vaseline, vaseline, and more vaseline. Anytime I have a tight feeling I apply vaseline. So that's easy enough. Messy but easy. NO PICKING, NO SUN and NO TOUCHING. (Arrested Development shout out) He did tell me the skin might turn black so not to freak out. That was a good heads up. I go back in a week for a follow up. Here's hoping for some positive changes.

I would like to say how easy going this environment is. It really amazes me. So laid back. Everyone is helpful, friendly, caring and knowledgable. So all in all another great interaction. At this moment I am looking forward to watching my skin shed and bringing in the new.

Hope this helps.

Oh and to answer your question polecat, Yes I did use the suction method. I started about three days after the subcision. I did it at least once a day sometimes two for a 30 count. I stopped after two weeks. I didn't suction the area with the lumps.

man i'd love to see some b4 after pics ...i am going to have to go the subcision route also my indentions are't responding much anymore to needling ....or atleast i cant tell

man i'd love to see some b4 after pics ...i am going to have to go the subcision route also my indentions are't responding much anymore to needling ....or atleast i cant tell

I'm sorry. I just don't feel comfortable posting pictures. Plus pictures can be deceiving and inaccurate no matter how exact someone tries to be. Even the slightest angle or lighting variation can change how scars look in pics and in real life.

I have been needling for four years (about every 3 months) and I do believe it was helping. However, I got to a point where I wanted to take a more aggressive approach. Also, like you I was too close to the situation to be able to really recognize my improvements. That is another reason why I chose to go to a dermatologist. I wanted an objective opinion about my progress. Even now it is hard for me to notice the changes he sees but I am clouded by a lot of things that are going on with my face that he wasn't looking at. He was focusing specifically on indented scarring but there are still textural issues (which hopefully will be resolved with this peel) and redness. It's a problem by problem process. Sadly we are in this for the long haul. Good luck.

how much better would you say the scars are from the subcision?

Here is the best way I can describe the changes I have seen recently: When I am looking into a mirror and I turn slowly into an overhead lighting situation, the light glides more smoothly (not perfectly but better) over my cheeks than before. When I am standing under a single light, as in my hallway, the light isn't hitting as hard into the hollows. I know I sound insane but I doubt I am the only person on here that has made crazytime with the mirror. My face is not where I want it be by any means. I am probably at least 15 years older than many of you and also experience age related issues (facial fat loss, poor skin texture) as well as scarring. Good Times! But I will be getting facial fat grafting done in the near future and that should help significantly (I hope) with some of the things that bother when I look in the mirror. You are young and I think subcision would be of help to anyone with scarring. I am glad I did it and will maybe go for another subcision treatment since there is some scarring that I still see and would like to have corrected. But I don't know. I am just waiting to see the results I get from this TCA peel. Hope that helps.

is the loss of facial fat what makes my cheeks look sunkin in from the front view?

matt or 451, thanks for sharing. I have a question for you. What did you use to do the suction with after your subcision? Do you have a link to where you bought it?

Thanks mate.

Believe it or not, I actually used an Oreck hand held vacuum sweeper nozzle to suction my face.I used one hand to hold the nozzle and the other to cup the end of the nozzle because the suction power was so strong.I highly recommend that anyone scheduled for subcision strongly consider reading the subcision-suction study.My fourth round of subcision where I used suction afterwards yielded the best results.Good luck to you.

is the loss of facial fat what makes my cheeks look sunkin in from the front view?

I think it is because you are a fit guy so you are not going to have as much fat thus showing a more "angular" facial appearance. This is considered attractive. In my case, I have lost the feminine "apples" of my cheeks and my eyes are very hollow resulting in a haggard look. It is my understanding that doctors perform fat grafting differently for men and women. For men, I think they try to maintain a lot more of those hollows so as to not "feminize" the face. With women they try to make the face more full. Hopefully not chipmunk full but fuller than what they would for a man.

Here is pic that might be of help regarding subcision. I know that it is different lighting in the before and afters but I think you can get a sense of what one can achieve with a multi modality scar treatment (she had subcision and fraxel).

http://dallascosmeticcenter.com/procedures_acnescarring.html

They did also have a vid of the doctor and the woman pictured speaking on a local morning show but I can't find it. Her skin looked great. Obviously, some of those after shots are her modelling photo shopped pics but the candids look like she has had significant improvement. She wrote that this was a year long process.

"matt or 451, thanks for sharing. I have a question for you. What did you use to do the suction with after your subcision? Do you have a link to where you bought it?Thanks mate."

This is what I used: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004SAF4/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

is the loss of facial fat what makes my cheeks look sunkin in from the front view?

Here is pic that might be of help regarding subcision. I know that it is different lighting in the before and afters but I think you can get a sense of what one can achieve with a multi modality scar treatment (she had subcision and fraxel).

http://dallascosmeticcenter.com/procedures_acnescarring.html

They did also have a vid of the doctor and the woman pictured speaking on a local morning show but I can't find it. Her skin looked great. Obviously, some of those after shots are her modelling photo shopped pics but the candids look like she has had significant improvement. She wrote that this was a year long process.

Results like that aren't physically possible and those pics are full of crap IMO. You can never get rid of scars, only improve them.

451/mr matt - do you guys happen to know if its possible to do subcision on boxcar type scars (like the ones in the above link) or is it mostly reserved for rolling scars? I have scars similar to that and was just wondering if it made sense to seek out doctors who would do it.

i think those pics could be real she doesn't even look like she has real major scarring to begin with ...

matt or 451, thanks for sharing. I have a question for you. What did you use to do the suction with after your subcision? Do you have a link to where you bought it?

Thanks mate.

I used an Oreck hand-held vacuum sweeper that we already had at home. LOL.

It did the trick and Oreck's are known for their quality. I wish I had known about the subcision-suction method four years ago before I had my first subcision treatment.

"451/mr matt - do you guys happen to know if its possible to do subcision on boxcar type scars (like the ones in the above link) or is it mostly reserved for rolling scars? I have scars similar to that and was just wondering if it made sense to seek out doctors who would do it."

I think it is possible to do subcision on the scars pictured in the above link. In fact, those particular before/ after photos changed my perspective about what types of scars can be treated with subcision. I was considering making an appointment with this particular doctor before I found my current derm. As evidenced from the quotes below, Dr. Adler doesn't identify a specific type of acne scarring that would respond well to subcision. It seems he thinks subcision would be of benefit for acne scarring in general. At least that is how I interpreted it.

"Acne scarring can be compared to a balloon on a string. The scar is tied down - tethered, if you will - to the underlying tissue. Most doctors treat acne scarring with a one-step laser process, which inflates the "balloon" but does not release it from the tissue. The result is a smoother finish, although the scar is still sunken into the skin.

Dr. Adler's magical touch first unties the string to release the balloon. This is done through a simple surgical procedure called subcision. This is a very easy procedure, done in the office under local anesthesia. Once the "string" is released, imagine the "balloon" (scar) naturally floating to the surface. Then Dr Adler performs Fraxel laser which is icing on the cake and allows the scar to flatten far more than laser alone."

AS123, I do agree that some of those after pics have been retouched. I wish they would have had her take the after pictures in the same setting as the befores but despite that I think she did have significant improvement.

48 hours after TCA PEEL:

My face is beaten up and greasy. I feel bruised and have some swelling, especially under my right eye. My skin is turning brown and has broken out in some tiny white bumps but I think this is just how my skin responds to things. This would happen everytime I needled. By day 2 or 3 after any procedure, I start to have a "WTF have I done" moment and this time is no exception. Dr. Berlin encouraged me to call or come in if I had any worries or concerns (basically better safe than sorry). I am going to see how things progress over the weekend but I think everything is going about as normally as I can expect after having acid rubbed all over my face.