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BSDetector

Do You Holistic Healthers Realize What Bad Science This Stuff Is?

First of all, I just want to know how you all are able to determine what foods "broke you out?" I mean, let's say you keep a food log. So what?

Unless you ate nothing but the same thing every day for a couple months or so, you would have no way of identifying what it was you consumed that caused you to break out.

And that's assuming it was something you ate that caused you to break out to begin with. Maybe it was the air quality that was responsible. Maybe it was the masturbation that was responsible. Maybe it was radiation.

Or maybe it was just your naturally screwed up hormones or bacterial accumulation in narrow follicles and irritation?

Regardless, the reality of this forum is you're just throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and hoping it sticks...and ultimately, you're more likely seeing temporary benefits from the placebo effect than anything else. But the same people keep coming back with research and talking about their diets, demonstrating that they haven't solved the acne mystery yet.

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First of all, I just want to know how you all are able to determine what foods "broke you out?" I mean, let's say you keep a food log. So what?

Unless you ate nothing but the same thing every day for a couple months or so, you would have no way of identifying what it was you consumed that caused you to break out.

And that's assuming it was something you ate that caused you to break out to begin with. Maybe it was the air quality that was responsible. Maybe it was the masturbation that was responsible. Maybe it was radiation.

Or maybe it was just your naturally screwed up hormones or bacterial accumulation in narrow follicles and irritation?

Regardless, the reality of this forum is you're just throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and hoping it sticks...and ultimately, you're more likely seeing temporary benefits from the placebo effect than anything else. But the same people keep coming back with research and talking about their diets, demonstrating that they haven't solved the acne mystery yet.

While i understand what you are getting at and to a point i do agree, however everyone is different.

With some people it can be one variable that breaks them out, with others is genetic or hormonal.

In any case everyone is different and your post is very generic and ignorant in a way. Where is your proof and research that it has nothing to do with diet for ALL CASES of acne.

At least these people here are trying to do something about it. I fully admit i disagree with a lot of the posts on here but at least they can say "i tried" They are trying to get to the bottom of what causes their acne and that requires investigation. Unless you can say for 100% certainty right now diet has nothing to do with then your original post isn't accurate at all.

Everyone has a unique biology which means the react to food in different ways.

What you say is a possibility may be you should back it up with credible conclusive scientific evidence?

Edited by TakeToTheSkies

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BS Detector - do you really avoid all of those foods?

In any case, I've been lurking around this forum for a few years, and you do make very valid points. The holistic forum is full of information. Not all of it is pertinent to acne, and very far fetched. There is literally a stab in the dark mentality when trying to cure acne holistically. In a sense, some people go beyond helping themselves, when they attempt to cure their own acne holistically.

The term "holistic" in itself is a huge buzz word and has been used to market many "cures," food, even cancer treatment.

It's strange that anything that doesn't fall under conventional western medicine can be filed under "holistic" or "eastern medicine," or other.

I'm currently attempting to get a BS in Biology. I don't have an end goal for this, other than to try and supplement my acne research and learn new things. Perhaps acne might be cured with a simple pill in the future, or it might require radical changes in lifestyle.

This forum seems more open to new ways of curing acne. There's got to be more than just the standard topicals, pills, and "good advice" (e.g. avoid chocolate and wash your face).

On another note... How many of us have gotten "Have you tried pro-active?" as acne-advice, from clear-faced peers?

Edited by jarrit

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Who are you to say that the holistic approach = bad science? Holistic approaches exist for a reason, bc to many they have worked. EVeryone is different. Perhaps the holistic approach did nothing for you. That doesn't mean it didn't do something for someone else.

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Have you read any of the posts in this section? There are more scientific studies linked here than any other part of the forum.

Is there a lot of bad Bro Science, too? Yes. But finding unconventional ways to treat yourself is all about doing the research on your own. You won't learn much in life if you don't learn to separate the gold from the dross.

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When I eat oranges and most other citrus, I get cysts. When I don't eat them. I don't get cysts. Before I discovered this, I was nearly always covered in severe cystic acne and have the scars to prove it.

Perhaps the holistic approach did nothing for you. That doesn't mean it didn't do something

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Have you read any of the posts in this section? There are more scientific studies linked here than any other part of the forum.

Is there a lot of bad Bro Science, too? Yes. But finding unconventional ways to treat yourself is all about doing the research on your own. You won't learn much in life if you don't learn to separate the gold from the dross.

These studies are inconclusive at best. They use small samples and there are invariably other studies that contradict the results of said study. They tend to be obviously flawed studies, too.

Take, for instance, the study on chocolate and acne. Nowhere in that study did they mention giving anyone pseudo-chocolate, so there was no placebo to test the results against. But people in here saw that and took it as gospel. Of course.

BS Detector - do you really avoid all of those foods?

It's sarcastic. I'm making fun of how people on here advocate the elimination of entire food groups to the point in which there is basically nothing left to eat.

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Moderation should at least be considered for all things.

I'm glad that views here are constantly being challenged, as that is what the holistic approach appears to do in most cases.

Calling someone a troll or acting as if someone is a negative person for opposing or questioning your views isn't very open-minded.

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Nothing to eat? There's much to eat, it's just that you are choosing the wrong one led by your desire of wanting to eat.

I'll be honest, I can stay on a strict diet and maintain health and weight, but sometimes I do admit that I slack off simply because of the taste.

I also used to think "what is there to eat when there's no grains", but hell was I wrong.

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Nothing to eat? There's much to eat, it's just that you are choosing the wrong one led by your desire of wanting to eat.

I'll be honest, I can stay on a strict diet and maintain health and weight, but sometimes I do admit that I slack off simply because of the taste.

I also used to think "what is there to eat when there's no grains", but hell was I wrong.

I'll say again you have interesting points some of which i do agree with.

However you are being too generic with what you say. You are implying a one glove fits all situation which isn't the case.

I cut gluten out of my diet 4 months ago and have very noticeable improvements in my acne. It's not completely gone but it improved.

Others on here have experimented on themselves with diet, like cutting citrus fruits stops them getting cysts.

It worked for one person and they shared that data.

With others diet doesn't have any impact on acne but i would always advocate good diet over eating what we want just for general health.

One more thing. You said a lot of studies are inconclusive. Too true, however do you have conclusive studies to say 100% diet does not effect acne in any way?

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Posted (edited) · Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given
Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given

Moderation should at least be considered for all things.

I'm glad that views here are constantly being challenged, as that is what the holistic approach appears to do in most cases.

Calling someone a troll or acting as if someone is a negative person for opposing or questioning your views isn't very open-minded.

She's calling him a troll because of the many posts. And he isn't meekly disagreeing. We disagree here all the time. BS is trolling.

Have you read any of the posts in this section? There are more scientific studies linked here than any other part of the forum.

Is there a lot of bad Bro Science, too? Yes. But finding unconventional ways to treat yourself is all about doing the research on your own. You won't learn much in life if you don't learn to separate the gold from the dross.

These studies are inconclusive at best. They use small samples and there are invariably other studies that contradict the results of said study. They tend to be obviously flawed studies, too.

Take, for instance, the study on chocolate and acne. Nowhere in that study did they mention giving anyone pseudo-chocolate, so there was no placebo to test the results against. But people in here saw that and took it as gospel. Of course.

BS Detector - do you really avoid all of those foods?

It's sarcastic. I'm making fun of how people on here advocate the elimination of entire food groups to the point in which there is basically nothing left to eat.

When I eat oranges and most other citrus, I get cysts. When I don't eat them. I don't get cysts. Before I discovered this, I was nearly always covered in severe cystic acne and have the scars to prove it.

Perhaps the holistic approach did nothing for you. That doesn't mean it didn't do something

I should change my name to negative detector bc u sir are one hell of a negative person. Maybe you should fix that first.

His problem is his frozen convenience food diet lacking in the nutrition that improves mood and brain function and therefore ability to learn. His posts in the past have very clearly shown he knows nothing about health and doesn't want to.

I'll put my brain function up against yours any day. Come talk to me when you understand the scientific method.

Hey BS. You still avoiding vitamin c to slow skin cell proliferation? Because you need it to form brain cells too.

Edited by alternativista

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Posted · Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given
Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given

Hey BS. You still avoiding vitamin c to slow skin cell proliferation? Because you need it to form brain cells too.

Hah!

I believe the reason he gets by on TV dinners is because of how much nutritional info he gets fed here. The mind is a powerful thing...

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These studies are inconclusive at best. They use small samples and there are invariably other studies that contradict the results of said study. They tend to be obviously flawed studies, too.

Take, for instance, the study on chocolate and acne. Nowhere in that study did they mention giving anyone pseudo-chocolate, so there was no placebo to test the results against. But people in here saw that and took it as gospel. Of course.

i don't think you understand the purpose of a placebo.

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These studies are inconclusive at best. They use small samples and there are invariably other studies that contradict the results of said study. They tend to be obviously flawed studies, too.

Take, for instance, the study on chocolate and acne. Nowhere in that study did they mention giving anyone pseudo-chocolate, so there was no placebo to test the results against. But people in here saw that and took it as gospel. Of course.

i don't think you understand the purpose of a placebo.

He probably meant a "control" group.

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These studies are inconclusive at best. They use small samples and there are invariably other studies that contradict the results of said study. They tend to be obviously flawed studies, too.

Take, for instance, the study on chocolate and acne. Nowhere in that study did they mention giving anyone pseudo-chocolate, so there was no placebo to test the results against. But people in here saw that and took it as gospel. Of course.

i don't think you understand the purpose of a placebo.

Besides, 1) I have had long term results from my diet changes and 2) if I was susceptible to the placebo affect, why didn't any of the prescription drugs I was given ever improve my acne one bit?

Also, no one here took the chocolate study as gospel. That's just one more example of the BS in BS's posts. He's made up in his head what we believe and then attacks us for all these imaginary opinions when he is entirely mistaken about what what we discuss and do. On top of being incredibly clueless about health and nutrition.

And that would because he isn't here to participate. Only to attack. If he would participate, he might learn something.

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Nothing to eat? There's much to eat, it's just that you are choosing the wrong one led by your desire of wanting to eat.

I'll be honest, I can stay on a strict diet and maintain health and weight, but sometimes I do admit that I slack off simply because of the taste.

I also used to think "what is there to eat when there's no grains", but hell was I wrong.

I'll say again you have interesting points some of which i do agree with.

However you are being too generic with what you say. You are implying a one glove fits all situation which isn't the case.

I cut gluten out of my diet 4 months ago and have very noticeable improvements in my acne. It's not completely gone but it improved.

Others on here have experimented on themselves with diet, like cutting citrus fruits stops them getting cysts.

It worked for one person and they shared that data.

With others diet doesn't have any impact on acne but i would always advocate good diet over eating what we want just for general health.

One more thing. You said a lot of studies are inconclusive. Too true, however do you have conclusive studies to say 100% diet does not effect acne in any way?

Did you quote the wrong post? If not, You are almost as bad as BS making arguments against things no ine said or based on invalid assumptions. He didn't say one diet fits all. And didnt say anything about diet not affecting acne. Few people here do and when they do, they are usually come here to tell everyone their miracle cure and then leave. They are not one of the members that sticks around to help, discuss and share like daft frost.

Just like no one discussing intermittent fasting has said that the quality of the food doesn't matter, yet you've argued that point at least half a dozen times. Who are you arguing with?

Edited by alternativista

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Nothing to eat? There's much to eat, it's just that you are choosing the wrong one led by your desire of wanting to eat.

I'll be honest, I can stay on a strict diet and maintain health and weight, but sometimes I do admit that I slack off simply because of the taste.

I also used to think "what is there to eat when there's no grains", but hell was I wrong.

I'll say again you have interesting points some of which i do agree with.

However you are being too generic with what you say. You are implying a one glove fits all situation which isn't the case.

I cut gluten out of my diet 4 months ago and have very noticeable improvements in my acne. It's not completely gone but it improved.

Others on here have experimented on themselves with diet, like cutting citrus fruits stops them getting cysts.

It worked for one person and they shared that data.

With others diet doesn't have any impact on acne but i would always advocate good diet over eating what we want just for general health.

One more thing. You said a lot of studies are inconclusive. Too true, however do you have conclusive studies to say 100% diet does not effect acne in any way?

That's that whole "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" thing the theists try to use to argue for the existence of God.

The problem is, you can not be asked to prove a negative.

My take on all this holistic health stuff is diet may have an effect on how your immune system functions/responds, which in turn affects the appearance of acne. It has nothing to do with acne condition itself. You're not going to "regulate your hormones" with food, you're not going to reduce your oil production with food, and, as a whole, you're not going to fix the process that leads to acne.

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Posted · Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given
Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given

There is so much I could say to defend myself, but you calling me an idiot is uncalled for and shows that you are trolling this post and could use a ban from this website

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Posted · Hidden by AKL, October 24, 2012 - No reason given
Hidden by AKL, October 24, 2012 - No reason given

Hey BS. You still avoiding vitamin c to slow skin cell proliferation? Because you need it to form brain cells too.

Hah!

I believe the reason he gets by on TV dinners is because of how much nutritional info he gets fed here. The mind is a powerful thing...

I get by on TV dinners because they have plenty of calories/nutrients.

There is so much I could say to defend myself, but you calling me an idiot is uncalled for and shows that you are trolling this post and could use a ban from this website

No, I called you an idiot because you're being an idiot.

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Posted · Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given
Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given

/thread

Hey BS. You still avoiding vitamin c to slow skin cell proliferation? Because you need it to form brain cells too.

Hah!

I believe the reason he gets by on TV dinners is because of how much nutritional info he gets fed here. The mind is a powerful thing...

Share this post


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Posted · Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given
Hidden by AKL, October 23, 2012 - No reason given

/thread

Hey BS. You still avoiding vitamin c to slow skin cell proliferation? Because you need it to form brain cells too.

Hah!

I believe the reason he gets by on TV dinners is because of how much nutritional info he gets fed here. The mind is a powerful thing...

I get by on TV dinners because they have plenty of calories/nutrients.

There is so much I could say to defend myself, but you calling me an idiot is uncalled for and shows that you are trolling this post and could use a ban from this website

No, I called you an idiot because you're being an idiot.

The control group is given a placbo. That is what control means. It is how to account for placebo. Learn the scientific method before you attempt to troll a thread

Control = / = placebo. Placebo only pertains to health-related experiments.

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Oh crap, not again... Why can't there be a discussion about holistic approaches without everyone calling each other names?!

Troll or not, BSDetector simply doesn't agree with much of the "evidence" presented in this forum. And that's his good right, in fact he's not even wrong on all counts, even though I don't agree with everything he says. It's very simple: the holistic approach with all the nutrient dense foods and healthy lifestyle choices will NOT eliminate acne in many cases. If anyone disagrees: show the evidence. And by "evidence" I mean real evidence, just show the studies or other evidence proving that it will eliminate acne in 90+% of the people taking this approach. The phrase "many people have cured their acne by following this or that diet" is not sufficient, nor is it true. Unless you can prove otherwise, but so far no one has been able to. We've already had stupid discussions about meat and grains, no one provided any substantial evidence at all, yet they keep claiming that certain foods are evil. Clutching at straws, that's all it is. It's exactly what Taketotheskies has said more than once: everyone is different, and there is no proof that dietary changes will help people get rid of acne, just like there's no proof it won't. From my experience, most people need more than that.

With that said, I'm closing this thread now and clean it up later. Name-calling and other nonsense will not make you win the argument (and I won't tolerate it), just post proof.

Thanks to the member reporting one of the posts here!

eta: topic reopened.

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My take on all this holistic health stuff is diet may have an effect on how your immune system functions/responds, which in turn affects the appearance of acne. It has nothing to do with acne condition itself. You're not going to "regulate your hormones" with food, you're not going to reduce your oil production with food, and, as a whole, you're not going to fix the process that leads to acne.

Actually, diet affects all of those things as well as many other factors that lead to acne. Bigger factors than the immune system.

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Acne is merely a symptom of something else going on in your body. What you eat affects your body; there's no way it could not.

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