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Gut Flora And Paleo, Expanded White Fox Philosophy And Solutions & Why Masturbation Is Okay.

Edit: I forgot to mention I'm now almost completely clear, waiting on some red marks to heal.

I'd like to start off by saying that Paleo and repairing your stomach are the best route to healing acne and the most permanent. The problem is that even following both of these, you may be breaking small rules and unaware of the mass impact this is having on you. I would firstly like to thank White Fox for all the knowledge on Gut flora I learned from him. I am very educated on Paleo and have been since before coming to the boards, I've read hundreds of studies and reviews, their refutations, etc. Here's my story, and it's pretty long so I have a tl;dr under it incase you dont feel like reading it all.

I am 17, and my acne began casually around 7th grade of middle school, of course my parents wanted to help, and got me some sort of alcohol based acne cleansing pad, I used these pads, scrubs, and other chemicals on my face to no sucess and gave up on them around 14. Coming into high school my acne was developing more, but I never got red marks after bumps, like I do now, my body was not in a state of permanent inflammation. I began antibiotic anti acne pills and used them for about 6 months on and off, taking sometimes two but usually one a day. These didn't affect me much. My sophomore year my acne faded significantly and I almost forgot about it. I got a girlfriend and starting fucking, a lot. My skin looked phenomenal. I was also a carb addict. My girlfriend noticed it too. I'd do anything to go to olive garden, to get pizza from pizza hut, no meal was complete without 4 servings of rolls or bread. I was probably intaking 250+ grams of carbs per day, and that's being generous to myself. I am lucky to be blessed with my mothers metabolism, I gained no weight but only slightly worsened my acne near the coming of winter.

And winter was all hell for me. I used to have what is called Seasonal Affective disorder. Basically, you get sad in the winter due to the lack of sunlight, vitamin D, and heat. Your body becomes even more addicted to carbs in the winter if you have SAD. I started eating even more carbs and my acne increased. I got self conscious for the first time about it. I had tot take antibiotics begin because I thought I had a uti, only for a couple days though. Low and behold body was recked. It remained in this state for about a year and a half, until about april fo this year when I came across paleo, I adopted paleo and my carb intake dropped dramatically. Obviously my gut was still in awful shape though. And the massive amount of fruit I was still consuming, albeit not knowing how much I was really consuming, was feeding what was mostly likely candida it's ideal fuel source. - fructose and sugar, baby. I would often try to quit fruit but just felt tired and didnt realize how strong my cravings were. I did not realize this until one week ago. The entire time I have been on paleo, these six months, I have still been addicted to carbs, I have simply fed my addiction through fruit, sweet potatoes and tubers. I began probitocs 2 months ago, and prebiotics three weeks ago. these helped, especially the prebiotics, Thankfully the prebiotics were really strong and killed some bad bacteria in my stomach, and made realize how strong my fruit cravings were I also learned almonds broke me out from bad flora three months ago, that has since healed.

TL:DR I Fed my carb addiction left over from pre paleo through fruit and starchy tubers without noticing how bad it was, think about how much fruit and sweet potatoes you eat a day if on paleo. probably over 100g of carbs per day via fructose and sweet potatoes. Thats fine with a good gut but wont work if its recovering.

Why Masturbation is not truly a cause of acne, but simply a precursor and gateway.

Often when you get done with your fun filled activities, you get pretty damn hungry, after that workout and your carb stores being depleted some fruit or bread is what you're really looking for. We're also happy as hell high on the hormones we release from masturbating, which I believe likely encourages over indulgent emotional eating. This can feed bad bacteria, and if you have a nutrient poor diet, masturbation depletes your body of the little zinc copper selenium and b vitamins that your body has left. Even if your diet has a good bit of nutrients, bad gut flora will make digestion of all this harder and thus, you might as well be eating Micky d's

In conclusion on a nutrient dense diet good gut flora and a lack of carbs in your diet, masturbation should NOT cause acne.


Examine your diet and be sure you are eating almost no fruit. I am down to about a serving of applesauce or dried plums per day.

Make sure you are not allergic

Prebiotics are more effective than probiotics, research it a bit.

I would like to quote White fox here and redistrube the handy info he has compiled, I hope he does not mind

This wealth of info should be enough to cure anyone and solve all problems. Good luck and Grok on.

Hi guys!

First of all I want to use this opportunity to thank Daniel Kern and all the members and moderators for creating such a great arena to discuss solutions to our problem!

Basic principles


Acne is caused by underlying gut issues(doesn't mean you have to experience gastrointestinal problems). I followed the protocol on gutflora.com and cleared my severe acne. I had almost forgot about you guys, but then they changed their design an began posting articles on seperate diseases. A post on gut and acne appeared and I remembered acne.org. The very short summary of mechanisms:

  1. Antibiotics or other drugs, simplified diet, grains, sugar, excessive hygiene, poor hereditary gut flora or other factors promote a “damaged” gut flora and increased intestinal permeability.
  2. A “damaged” gut flora and increased intestinal permeability results in systemic inflammation
  3. Oxidative stress and inflammation set the stage for acne development


No point in starting treatment if you're only going to give it a couple of weeks. Be patient, treatment takes TIME. Those with acne and few other health concerns should follow The Gut Diet. Basic principles:

Several sources of beneficial bacteria in your diet

- Quality probiotics

- Fermented foods

- Fresh, organic, minimally washed vegetables and plant products

- Staying in contact with healthy people and pets.

Prebiotics either from diet or supplements. (Will give initial worsening(gas, bloating, acne++) until gut flora adjusts)

- Leeks, onions, chicory root and more

- Supplement: Start slow(1/2 ts) and work your way up

Diet (Anti-inflammatory diet / The Gut Diet / Paleo Diet)

- Eat plenty: Meat, fish, fowl, eggs, vegetables, Extra virgin Olive Oil, extra Virgin Coconut Oil, Butter/GHEE

- Eat in moderation: Fruits, berries, nuts(if you tolerate them)

- Avoid or eat in small amounts: Grains, sugar, milk, vegetable oils


- Where can I read more studies and reports on the gut-acne connection?

Acne originates in the gut

Acne vulgaris: A disease of western civilization

Acne vulgaris, probiotics and the gut-brain-skin axis - back to the future?

Diet nutrition and health

Study shows that 54% of patients with acne have either the first (21%) or second (78.7%) impaired bacterial microflora.

Gut Flora repair

When can I expect to get better?

Most people will begin to see great improvement 2 weeks-2 months after they have

- Followed the diet for a couple of months

- Adjusted to several sources of probiotics and prebiotics (e.g. raw sauerkraut, kefir, probiotic supplements, prebiotic supplement)

- Achieved great digestion. Regular nice BMs

- No food intolerances

When you can put a green check beside all of these lines you have achieved a healthier gut flora and intestinal lining. Inflammation goes down and acne improves:)

Why are grains excluded from the diet?

Oats, wheat and other grains are some of the "worst" foods for people with acne (most everyone else also benefit from excluding grains from their diet). Grains contain several anti-nutrients (phytic acid, lectins, enzyme inhibitors etc.), have a high-carbohydrate density, a lot of insoluble fiber and the protein gluten.

Anti-nutrients, excess insoluble fiber and gluten is known to promote leaky gut. High-density carbohydrates alter gut flora

Recommended reading on grains:

Cereal Grains: Humanity’s Double-Edged Sword

The silent killer: Modern lifestyle promotes leaky gut and low-level chronic inflammation

Why grains are unhealthy

Top five reasons why you should remove grains from your diet for good

Effects of wheat germ agglutinin on human gastrointestinal epithelium: insights from an experimental model of immune/epithelial cell interaction.

Gluten Causes Gastrointestinal Symptoms in Subjects Without Celiac Disease: A Double-Blind Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial

Gliadin, zonulin and gut permeability: Effects on celiac and non-celiac intestinal mucosa and intestinal cell lines.

Why is milk not allowed on the diet, and why is fermented dairy okay?

Milk is not just this white substance that is high in calcium. Milk is specifically designed to promote rapid growth of a a growing child. It contains several hormones and bio-active peptides that potentially breach the gut barrier. Lactose and casein is also problematic for a lot of people. Read more on the problems with milk

Full-fat, grass-fed, natural (no sugar etc.) and fermented dairy (cheese, yoghurt etc.) is okay because there's very little hormones, lactose etc. left after fermentation:)

Butter and GHEE are also excellent choices.

Lactose intolerance can be treated with probiotics

- What can I eat for breakfast?


Meat, fish or fowl

Avocado and kefir


Kefir smoothie - Properly fermented kefir, berries and coconut oil

Quality yogurt, nuts and berries

Salad with some type of protein source

- What do I have to look for when choosing fermented foods?

It is very important to pick foods that have been fermented properly and still have live cultures.


Kefir - Made from kefir grains, refrigerated and no added ingredients (e.g. sugar)

Yogurt - No added ingredients (e.g. sugar) and preferably full-fat

Sauerkraut - Choose raw and refrigerated sauerkraut. The pasteurized stuff you'll find in the shelf of the average supermarket has no live microorganisms.

- How strict do I have to follow the diet?

When first starting this plan you shold aim to follow the diet as strictly as possible. However, it doesn't matter if you cheat once in a while. After some months, when you have introduced several sources of probiotics and prebiotics, you can slowly start to cheat a little on the diet if you want. Most people find that they can eat a certain amount of crappy foods once their gut flora and leaky gut has improved.

- I have moderate-severe gastrointestinal problems besides acne. Will this plan work for me?

Moderate-severe gastrointestinal problems usually involves moderate-severe gut dysbiosis and candida overgrowth. This plan might work for you, but some individuals with candida overgrowth have to use antifungals to reduce the counts of candida before trying to establish healthy gut flora. Look at the gut dysbiosis treatment plan at gutflora.com.

My journey

About me:

Some of you might remember me as I have been a member of the boards for quite some time now. When I first became a member of acne.org in 2007 I was determined to find the "root" cause of acne. I always knew that acne wasn't a natural part of human development and that there was some underlying issue. Even though I was reading intensively I was grasping in the dark, there is so much bullshit out there and 99% of the people giving advice aren't even clear. I tried every natural treatment under the sun.

I have also done two courses of accutane which didn't work. I always knew accutane did nothing to improve the underlying issues, but I was frustrated and desperate and just wanted acne to go away.

After a while I started to read more and more scientific journals and a couple of years ago I knew that the answers could be found in the gut. Some of you might remember "White Fox' anti-candida log" which was a popular thread in 2010. When I started that treatment I was still lacking a lot of important knowledge when it comes to proper gut health. I wasn't totally committed, made several mistakes with diet and supplements and didn't properly heal my gut. It only worked to some degree.

Even though my anti-candida treatment didn't work 100% I was still convinced that my gut was causing some issues. So I continued looking. After a while I found the information now available at gutflora.com. I learned most of my knowledge by studying that site and information from people like Dr. Art Ayers(cooling inflammation), Dr. Loren Cordain, Dr. Weston A. Price and more. Since I was very ill with severe acne, food intolerances and more I used a long time to heal my gut and get rid of acne.

What I've learned:

The gut wall is the main interface between us and the external environment. Most of our immune system is located in the gut.

Modern lifestyle with sugar, grains, antibiotics(and other drugs), simplified diets++ damage gut flora and gut cells.

We get a damaged gut flora with missing species of bacteria and possibly overgrowth of opportunistic flora(candida f.ex). Gut Flora plays an important part in keeping our gut wall healthy. When our gut flora is compromised our gut wall becomes malnourished and damaged. When our gut wall is working propely it allows properly digested food "molecules" to pass through. When it get's damaged unwanted particles can get to pass; causing inflammation.

Gut Dysbiosis and increased intestinal permeability resulting in inflammation is the main cause of acne.

I know people on the boards have been looking at leaky gut before. However, it's so important to treat it the right way!

The most important thing I can say is that you have to be determined. This is not some half-ass treatment where you give it a couple of weeks. You're either all in or all out since you have to able to get through some though times.

Edited by Paleoistheanswer

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Thanks for sharing your story. I think everyone has a different level they have to take this to. I don't totally agree about fruit though. Have you read about the Specific Carb Diet? It is a diet much like Paleo designed specifically for gut healing. Anyway, she (the author) says that fruit is not the same type of carbs as sweet potatoes, grains etc and doesn't feed unhealthy organisms (candida, etc) the same way. Fruit is considered safe on the diet.

Of course, there are some people who literally can't handle any sugar. You might be one of them. But for most people who are attempting to heal the gut, I feel that fruit is important because it's easy to digest and contains many nutrients. Just don't load up on it at the same time as meat or other heavier foods (fat) because they don't digest well together.

Like you, I also had to give up sweet potatoes and I had some pretty noticeable changes when I did. Sweet potatoes are listed as "illegal" on the specific carb diet and the author (who's very well educated and devoted her life to studying this btw) says that they cause damage to the gut because their starches feed the bad stuff.

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I am very aware that it's all in my gut. Whenever I eat corn, almond or foods high in soy I get stomach pain, and followed by oiliness. Fruit however, are like the only food that does not cause me any pain, and seem to be the most easiest for digestion.

So, soy and sugar messes up your gut, ... leaky gut. Then gluten is able to go into your blood stream, then there's an auto immune response followed by insulin response.

Edited by DaftFrost

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Soy is one of the worst. I was sick all my life from the wheat I was eating. But it wasn't until i became a vegetarian in my twenties and began eating tons of soy that my health problems went from unpleasant to life threatening.

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Just to expand on your "prebiotics are more important than probiotics" point, my understanding is this:

-Probiotics are bacteria with helpful genes that break down in your digestive tract and get consumed by the bacteria currently there.

-Prebiotics are fiber that only stomach bacteria can break down. They feed the bacteria and allow them to multiply.

-Probiotics, from supplements or food, can be destroyed by the acid in your stomach, but prebiotics cannot.

-You need both in order to restore your gut flora balance, but prebiotics are more likely to have an effect because there's no risk of them being destroyed before they reach your intestines.

Moreover, the few, short-term studies that have been done show that the effect of probiotic supplements wears off after usage ends. Either you have to use them for a long time (more than a month) to achieve lasting benefits, or you need to make them a long-term part of your diet. As far as I know, no studies of this kind have been done on prebiotics.

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I have read that inulin is the best prebiotic out there. And, the good thing is that you dont have to buy it in supplements, inulin can be found on many foods. Example, onion and garlic have great amounts of inulin. But chicory root is very high in inulin, so if anyone are taking probiotics supplements, it might be better to eat these food to get the prebiotics in your system. Hope this is helpful! =)

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Yeah, I screwed my gut up too when I was younger. As far as fruits and sweet potatoes go, I'm eating a small amount of fruits and a decent amount of sweet potatoes. It doesn't seem to do much harm. The best way to know what foods you can eat is to cut out the most allergenic ones (corn, wheat, grains, dairy, soy, etc.) and just test the rest. Good luck, everyone.

Edited by Melloman

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