Jump to content
Acne.org
Search In
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
crab76

Spiro Not Working 2Nd Time Around....

Recommended Posts

Hello, I suffer from hormonal adult cyctic acne.

background... I had moderate cyctic acne in my teens, BCP from 17-30 yrs old kept me mosly clear. At 26 I switched from one pill to Yasmin and my face went CRAZY with cysts everywhere. So I did a course of accutaine. It cleared me up completely! Then when I turned 30 I decied to get off bcp all together. Then my face went CRAZY again. Super Oily and cysts along my jaw. So my Dr put me on Spiro. It was AMAZING! All my oil dried up and the cysts either came to a head or dissolved within.

I was CLEAR for Years on 100mg of spiro!! Problem is that I had severe emotional issues from the Spiro. I didn't realize it was caused by the med though. I just thought it was me. Earlier this year (I'm 36 now) I decided to see what would happen if I took less Spiro cuz I have been 90% clear for 5 years and have not had any cysts. So I dropped to 50mg and all of a sudden my emotional issues got better. I felt AMAZING! SO me and my Psychiatrist, Dermatologist and Family all came to the conclusion it was the Spiro. My skin was still clear so I dropped to 25mg. My skin stayed clear for months. I was so happy!!

Then WHAM.... CYSTS ALL OVER MY JAW. I'm distraught. So my derm uped my Spiro to 100, then to 150 and now to 200mg. Been almost 3 months and my skin is still freaking out.

Why isn't it working like it did the first time?

Has anyone else had an experiance like this?

Has anyone else had emotional issues like this?

What else can I do?

Should I take an antibiotic? Like Doxy?

cry.gif

Thx for reading

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm, well upping you to 200mg in only 3 months is too fast. You basically have no idea if 100mg would work for you again because you jumped up to 200mg so fast. Many people find 200mg is way too high. And why didn't you try intermediate doses? Like 75mg? That is the magic number for some people.

Some derms also cycle spiro. So you take a higher dose during ovulation (when androgens are highest) and a lower dose the other weeks of the month.

Edited by Green Gables

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm, well upping you to 200mg in only 3 months is too fast. You basically have no idea if 100mg would work for you again because you jumped up to 200mg so fast. Many people find 200mg is way too high. And why didn't you try intermediate doses? Like 75mg? That is the magic number for some people.

Some derms also cycle spiro. So you take a higher dose during ovulation (when androgens are highest) and a lower dose the other weeks of the month.

Thanks for the reply!

Its crazy cuz 5 years ago when I started 100mg cleared me with in a month. It was like a miracle!! I stayed soooo clear, smooth & mostly oil free for 5 years.

Fast forward 5 years. I never got off Spiro. I just dropped to 50mg. Then like you said at times during my cycle when I flet no oil I tried taking 25mg. So for 3 months I did this. Mostly on 50mg... 25mg at times. Then overnight I had new cysts popping up daily. It didn't happen slow. It just all came rushing back. So I immediatly went back to 100mg. Stayed there for 2 months. It just kept getting worse. Then my Dr upped me to 150mg. For one month.... still getting worse. So just this week I went to 200mg. She just wants to get me clear. Then have me drop 25mg off every 2 weeks til I get to 75mg and pray that I do OK skin wise & mentally at 75mg.

It's been three months of this.... I just feel like things should be getting better not worse. The other day she added an antibiotic to help clear things up quicker. I HATE antibiotics too btw but I'm so desperate. I'm a medical Esthetician too btw.... I can't have my skin like this. :(

And I know 200mg is super high. Spiro gives me to WORST emotional issues. I need to maintain on the lowest dose I can for my mental health so I don't plan on staying on this dose for long. I am thinking of starting another post about this topic to see if anyone else has suffered mentally from this med. It's so bad my Dr wants me to report it to the FDA. But as bad as it makes me emotionally it's like my savior because it's the only thing that has cleared my skin. No one who has clear skin would understand. U know!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might have a more complex hormonal issue than androgen sensitivity. Spiro shouldn't be making you moody. Spiro made me LESS irritable and anxious.

I would google Estrogen Dominance and see if that applies to you. It's a little confusing, but it can cause acne in some people. If you are estrogen dominant spiro would not be the best treatment choice for you.

I do believe that the term, "estrogen dominance" actually refers to the lack of progesterone, rather than the over production of estrogen. Since there is not enough progesterone to balance the estrogen in the body, the estrogen is said to dominate. There could actually be low, normal or high levels of estrogen in a woman who is estrogen dominant.

see: http://www.johnleemd...trogen_dom.html

Edited by Green Gables

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all this! It's funny you say that because I see a Natropath and have had my hormones checked and DO HAVE Estrogen Dominance. I was on BCP for 13 years straight. BCP will cause this becuase it's giving you synthetic progesterone so your body stops making it. So when you come off it's extreemly low and Estrogen is high. I took DIM for a long time which naturally lowers Estrogen. I also took bio-identical Progesterone too.

Then I moved and had to find a new Natropath. So she just started working me up for all of this. She too wants to start me on Bio-Identical Progesterone. But she said that it probably won't help my Acne.

She also just started me on Vitex, Saw Palmetto, Vit A, & Zinc. So she upped my Spiro to 200mg & added the Doxycycline. Her goal is let the high dose of spiro & antibiotic get me clear. The start decreasing the Spiro by 25mg every two weeks. Hopefully to get me down to 75mg. By that time the herbs & vitamins will be built up in my system becuase they can take months to show signs of improvement.

I guess Saw Palmetto is a "natural" Spiro. She said nothing is going to work like Spiro does but maybe a combo of both will do the trick. I felt good mentally on 50mg. So maybe 75mg will be ok too.

But thx for the info on this because I kinda forget about the estrogen thing. I guess I'm always forcused on the Androgens.

Oh and one more thing.... Spiro DOES cause mood swings. It's a listed side effect. I've searched the internet for info regarding this and have found that some women experiance the same. It's not common though.

My Dr thinks I don't metabolize meds properly because I'm the type that gets every side effect from meds. Anything I take. Some people are just that way... that's why some get side effects and some don't.

Edited by crab76

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's good to know. Personally I think estrogen dominance changes the game.

Here is the problem. Spiro is an anti-androgen AND estrogenic. Not all anti-androgens are estrogenic. This is why I say Spiro is not the best treatment for someone with estrogen dominance. It is muting your androgen activity and raising your estrogen activity at the same time (this is why some women report their boobs getting bigger or getting a more womanly figure on high doses of Spiro).

From my current research, the following anti-androgens are NOT also estrogenic:

Strongest: Flutamide (Rx only, also used to treat PCOS, actually has more anti-androgen power than spiro)

Strong: Saw palmetto

Moderate: Pygeum, Pumpkin Seed Oil, Stinging Nettle

Weak: Vitamin B5 (stops enzyme CoA from converting to androgens, so obviously this only stops a small part of androgen production), MSM

Maye you could switch to Flutamide instead of Spiro?

Some women have also reported a better effect by combining natural anti-androgens. There are supplements available with saw palmetto + stinging nettle + pygeum + pumpkin seed oil, for example

There is also cyproterone acetate. It is another anti-androgen that actually SUPPRESSES estrogen at the same time. It also weakly raises progesterone levels. It is ONE of the components in Dianette/Diane-35 in UK/Canada, which is a birth control pill often prescribed to women with acne. You can take it by itself, but it is very rarely prescribed as a stand-alone. It is not available at all in the United States. It is quite a bit more complex than spironolactone or flutamide.

Oh, and here is how Spironolactone is estrogenic separate from its anti-androgen capability:

  • Displacement of estrogens from sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG).This occurs because spironolactone binds to SHBG at a high rate, as do endogenous estrogens and androgens, but estrogens like estradiol and estrone are more easily displaced than are androgens like testosterone, and so spironolactone blocks relatively more estrogens from interacting with SHBG than it does androgens, resulting in a higher ratio of free estrogens to free androgens.

  • Inhibition of the conversion of estradiol to estrone, resulting in an increase in the ratio of estradiol to estrone.This is important because estradiol is approximately 10 times as potent as estrone as an estrogen.

  • Enhancement of the rate of peripheral conversion of testosterone to estradiol, resulting in lower testosterone and higher estradiol levels.

Edited by Green Gables

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope I'm making sense here. Any anti-androgen can let estrogen have more control. But with Estrogen Dominance + Spiro specifically you are fighting a losing battle because it is not only blocking androgens but it is actually ACTIVELY raising estrogen at the same time.

Edited by Green Gables

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YES it makes sense. Thank U so much. You're really helping me. I've been researching all of this. Can I ask where you got that quote from about the Spiro? I'd love to read all of it and bring it to my Dr.

The saw Palmetto I just started taking like two wks ago is Medi Herb brand. It has nettle root, saw palmetto, cretaeva stem bark, pumkin seed oil. It's called ProstaCo.

Do U think this is good?

Also.... what do you think of the Vitex for me? She also reccomended that. But I haven't started yet. I like to do one thing at a time to see if I get side effects so I know what's causing the side effect. I plan on starting the Vitex today. I got Gaia brand liquid capsules.

And what U think about DIM? I have that too from before. My old Dr had me on it but when I moved I stopped taking that and the Progesterone.

Thx again for your help. I'm determined to get my hormones sorted out. Even if it doesn't help my acne I know I'll feel better all over if my hormones are straight.

Edited by crab76

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YES it makes sense. Thank U so much. You're really helping me. I've been researching all of this. Can I ask where you got that quote from about the Spiro? I'd love to read all of it and bring it to my Dr.

The saw Palmetto I just started taking like two wks ago is Medi Herb brand. It has nettle root, saw palmetto, cretaeva stem bark, pumkin seed oil. It's called ProstaCo.

Do U think this is good?

Also.... what do you think of the Vitex for me? She also reccomended that. But I haven't started yet. I like to do one thing at a time to see if I get side effects so I know what's causing the side effect. I plan on starting the Vitex today. I got Gaia brand liquid capsules.

And what U think about DIM? I have that too from before. My old Dr had me on it but when I moved I stopped taking that and the Progesterone.

Thx again for your help. I'm determined to get my hormones sorted out. Even if it doesn't help my acne I know I'll feel better all over if my hormones are straight.

Vitex and DIM are great for estrogen dominance. There is one lady on here who says her acne was cleared by Vitex and DIM.

The quote on Estrogenic effects of Spiro is from Wikipedia. If you look at it straight on the Wikipedia page, it has several references to medical journals, it is legitimate information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Personalized Advice Quiz - All of Acne.org in just a few minutes

×