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Hey guys

We all know as men, that women have a hell of lot of options available to them in terms of hormone assistance (e.g. contraceptive pills, jasmine etc etc) but what about us guys? If we started to take these things we'd grow breasts, fun for a few weeks but you might look pretty silly after a while!

So i've been looking around, basing my understanding of acne as hormonal problem related to testorone production of DHT (androgens). Anyway i've found that some people have claimed this supplement, known as Saw Palmetto is an effective male hormone supplement. Commonly used in problems with prostrate, it reduces the conversion of testorone to DHT (which increases oil production and chances of acne lesions).

Anway i wanted to know, has anyone used this product??? have they seen any results in their acne or skin appearance??? Apparently results take about one to two months but hey ive had acne nearly 8 years now so two months isnt anything for me.

So anyone have any comments on this??? please tell the board!!

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i've been taking it for months now, i haven't noticed it helping with acne, but i'm not taking it for that, it helps stop balding. At night i've been washing with aveeno foam cleanser then applying clearasil ultra, then in the morning i put on moisturizer, this has kept me clear for about 2 months

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I dont THINK SP reduces type II DHT which is very present in the skin cells, and is believed to control sebum production. It may reduce type I, produced in the sex organs, but this one is believed to be start MBP process (balding).

You could try beta beta sitosterol, its the "concentrated" version of Saw P. You could still get gyno (boobs) and other side effects as well.

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sp does inhibit type 1 and type 2 5ar(5-alpha reductase) but it isn't as potent as finasteride which only inhibits type 2 or Avodart which inhibits up to 90% of 5ar. like Adam said beta sitosterol is assumed to be the primary active ingredient. Copper ion in the skin is effective in inhibiting the type 1 form which is primarily producing the DHT that damages follicles and can be administered locally to the skin. Copper also is critical for Scavenging of damaging free radicals and Crosslinking of collagen and elastin.

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I would love to see these studies proving that SP does in fact inhibit Type I!!!

I forgot to mention type I is also foound in the brain, and people that have been taking Avo have reported a "fogginess."

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Guest Tracy
I would love to see these studies proving that SP does in fact inhibit Type I!!!

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Thats great!!!! What about some in vivo studies...In vitro is great and all, but what I want to know/see is actual "pratice" in humans. Example, Azelic acid inhibits 98% of DHT in a test tube, but in actual practice its hardly anything. Same with many other drugs out there, Minocycline being another great example.

I know about google, thanks.

The fact is there is very limited HARD/valid evidence to support SP and its reduction of 5AR type II

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Guest Tracy
Thats great!!!! What about some in vivo studies...

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Guest Scorpioness

I tried Saw Palmetto for a long time, and it didn't do squat.

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No I've done the HW. I'm proving a point that Scorp just brought up...thanks anyways.

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This is just parts from another thread in the diet forum:

Androgen Receptor Blockers - Antiandrogens

These are analogues of androgen, that look like it, but do not act like it.  Therefore when they bind to androgen receptors, they prevent androgen from doing so, and do not activate the production of DHT.

Beta Sitosterol- found in plant phytosterol complexes in as much as 40% - 58%.  Only 5 - 10% is absorbed though, and as such 300mg - 3g of phytosterols are the usual doses depending on treatment.  This also helps to lower LDL Cholesterol levels and may reduce your risk of Heart disease. 

EGCG (epigallocatechin gallate)- found in Green Tea at 45% EGCG.  300mg of Green Tea is the usual dosage.

Curcumin- Found in Tumeric at 95% and also boosts Calcium D-Glucarate, which increases the elimination of "bad estrogen' (estradiol).

Indole-3-Carbinol (I3C)- comes from cruciferous vegetables, and can also promote the elimination of  "bad estrogen" and also boosts glutathione and helps prevent cancer

DIM- extract from Indole 3-Carbinol and can also promote the elimination of "bad estrogen"and as such also boosts glutathione and helps prevent cancer

DHT Binders

Eqoul- so far the only DHT binder!  It binds DHT specifically rendering it inactive, but will not bind Testosterone. It is currently only availble from Soy Isoflavones so... =(  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=14681200

Type I Inhibitors - 5 Slpha Reductase DHT Inhibitors

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=11931850

Quercitin

Caffeic Acid- a derivative of caffeine, yet behaves in a protective mechanism increasing cancer prevention. You can purchase this as a supplement and is also one of the most potent Type I Inhibitors.

Green Tea (Camellia sinensis)- This is both a Type I Inhibitor and also an anti-androgen (see EGCG). It also has polyphenols with antioxidant properties and helps reduce LDL choloesterol levels and aids in blood sugar metabolism.  You can purchase this with or without caffeine.

Zinc- While this is also an anti-inflammatory and aids in Vitamin A metabolism, this is also a very tricky one. While it can work as a Type I Inhibitor as plenty will attest to it working to clear acne and also reduce hirsutism & androgen alopecia, I've heard that it can also either boost DHT or inhibit DHT producition.  The form of Zinc may matter (zinc sulphate? gluconate?) or the key may be in adding B6(alone may cause acne).  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=3207614

Gamma-linolenic Acid (GLA)- An Omega 6 fatty acid found most abundantly in Borage Oil (& lesser amounts in Flaxseed, EPO, Black Current, Pumpkin, Hemp) but can also be converted from Alpha Linolenic Acid & Linoleic Acid Omega 3s.  It is more a potent Type I inhbitor than EPA  (Flaxseed Oil & EPO forms may break some people out)

EPA- found preformed in Fish Oils and Neptune Krill Oil.  It is an Omega 3 and can be converted naturally from various foods sources, but people don't always consume enough of these foods or are enzyme defficient.  This is also an anti-inflammatory and may reduces your LDL (bad) cholesterol levels.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12589947

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There was a study conduct by Merck with an expermental drug MK3886 (something like that) that inbits only type I. It was done on actual people for 3 months and what they found was....no reduction in acne. Yes, the study was small (no more than a 100) but that fact remains that acne was still present. This notion of reduce 5ar and acne should dissapate varies. You have Avodart which is a dual inhibitor yet there are varying reports of its effects on acne. Same with Propecia only inhibits type II, but still varying reports.

GLA has to be the best one out there only problem is it doesnt get absorbed very well. In order to get enough of it to be effective it just becomes to expensive not to mention time consuming. A company is actually making a topical with a good amount of GLA in it, for balding. They are going to use it to treat acne too, at least thats what I read about a year ago.

I know zinc taken at night before bed can increase testostorne, which is also a crappy androgen to have too much of.

There are other antiandrogens out there as well, flurdil, spiro, and RU58841 all topicals the last one being the strongest.

Hormones should be the last thing to play with when dealing with acne IMO.

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