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Stumbled upon these before and after pics. Anyone with experience care to chime in on whether or not these seem like typical results?

Sometimes I see frac CO2 before and after pics and literally nothing has changed, which boggles my mind. I don't know how you can be zapped with a laser, bleed, ooze, crust, and see no difference in scar shape or depth.

I've also particularly noted it is usually scars with sharp, angular borders that look the same before and after. Anyone notice this firsthand?

There are a lot more to scars than just icepick, boxcar, and rolling scars. Some boxcars are much sharper and border more on icepick while some are more like rolling scars with a slightly more defined edge. I think it is important to make those distinctions when evaluating whether or not a given treatment works for certain types of scars.

In any event, I'm rambling! Thoughts?

post-176919-0-27668200-1345278393_thumb.

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It really depend on the type of scar(s), the settings of the laser, the healing properties of the patient, pre-care, aftercare, the skill of the practitioner, freaking diet, etc.

There's so many different factors, it boggles the mind when trying to narrow down what specifically if what makes something tick or not.

That being said, I would say that those results are typical, and that it's actually a matter of lighting.

The first two picture were taken in roughly the same lighting. The third picture was taken in a different room, and the lighting was much more angled directly at the scars, like a fill light.

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I see a pretty good improvement in that picture, But that is why CO2 lasers need multiple treatments for best results.

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laser only works on shallow scarring. laser wont work on deep scars that most likely need to be excised and what not.

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i get these results just by changing the contrast/brigthness of the photos.... and this before/after example seems the same trick that i use in my albuns....

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laser only works on shallow scarring. laser wont work on deep scars that most likely need to be excised and what not.

Okay, for the love of God, will you stop spreading misinformation?

You don't like lasers, okay, fine. But there's no reason to keep lying about their efficacy, especially when there are many successful cases of it working on deep scars and since fractional lasers have a very low risk of complication if handled correctly.

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laser only works on shallow scarring. laser wont work on deep scars that most likely need to be excised and what not.

Okay, for the love of God, will you stop spreading misinformation?

You don't like lasers, okay, fine. But there's no reason to keep lying about their efficacy, especially when there are many successful cases of it working on deep scars and since fractional lasers have a very low risk of complication if handled correctly.

lol my statements are based on multiple reviews. i beg to differ show some proof laser works on deep scarring. not shallow but DEEP scarring. just because you got laser doesnt mean the whole world has to get it.

Edited by no_hope

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laser only works on shallow scarring. laser wont work on deep scars that most likely need to be excised and what not.

Okay, for the love of God, will you stop spreading misinformation?

You don't like lasers, okay, fine. But there's no reason to keep lying about their efficacy, especially when there are many successful cases of it working on deep scars and since fractional lasers have a very low risk of complication if handled correctly.

lol my statements are based on multiple reviews. i beg to differ show some proof laser works on deep scarring. not shallow but DEEP scarring. just because you got laser doesnt mean the whole world has to get it.

What reviews? Did you focus on just the bad ones? Ignore the multitude of reviews from patients who claim they've gotten satisfactory results, even on deep acne scars?

You have a deep, deep bias against lasers for some reason. Fine, whatever. I would just prefer you don't spread lies about it.

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Could there really be such a great difference between day 30 and day 60? It doesn't seem very believable to me, but I don't know about lasers. Does the collagen really build up that dramatically even after a month for those who have had laser? The difference is so big, and I always thought you would see the most improvements within the first month, even if it does improve a little bit for months after.

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Could there really be such a great difference between day 30 and day 60? It doesn't seem very believable to me, but I don't know about lasers. Does the collagen really build up that dramatically even after a month for those who have had laser? The difference is so big, and I always thought you would see the most improvements within the first month, even if it does improve a little bit for months after.

I personally don't believe the difference between 30 and 60. I do believe the difference between 0 and 30, though. The picture in 60 was taken in a different location with different lighting, and, based on my own expertise on lighting as a filmmaker, it's directed like a fill light, so the scars are filled in.

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The results between 0 and 30 is minimal, at least to me. DRaGZ, based on your log you had great improvement in the first month. Do you think a lot of that was due to the combo treatment with subcision? It just seems like laser on its own isn't highly effective. Or maybe my expectations are too high.

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The results between 0 and 30 is minimal, at least to me. DRaGZ, based on your log you had great improvement in the first month. Do you think a lot of that was due to the combo treatment with subcision? It just seems like laser on its own isn't highly effective. Or maybe my expectations are too high.

I think it's because my doctor actually treated my scars the way they needed to be treated. Lots of doctors go "oh, acne scars? laser," but, in reality, there's a wide variety of scars and, depending on their formation, their severity, where they are located, etc., they needed to be treated with different modalities. Additionally, even when using a laser, some doctors understand how to use the laser on certain scars better than others. For instance, the Mixto has three different settings on the laser and an entire range of intensities. Understanding which setting to use on which intensity on which scars makes a big difference.

In lots of "medispas," they just have an esthetician read instructions off of a card, depending on their own unprofressional evaluation of the scars, and just go to town. I'm not surprised no satisfactory results fare from that.

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laser only works on shallow scarring. laser wont work on deep scars that most likely need to be excised and what not.

Okay, for the love of God, will you stop spreading misinformation?

You don't like lasers, okay, fine. But there's no reason to keep lying about their efficacy, especially when there are many successful cases of it working on deep scars and since fractional lasers have a very low risk of complication if handled correctly.

lol my statements are based on multiple reviews. i beg to differ show some proof laser works on deep scarring. not shallow but DEEP scarring. just because you got laser doesnt mean the whole world has to get it.

What reviews? Did you focus on just the bad ones? Ignore the multitude of reviews from patients who claim they've gotten satisfactory results, even on deep acne scars?

You have a deep, deep bias against lasers for some reason. Fine, whatever. I would just prefer you don't spread lies about it.

He has a deep, deep bias against the entire industry of cosmetic dermatology, for some reason. And like you, he has told me that I claim the "whole world" needs to get the types of cosmetic treatment I have gotten to help reduce the appearance of my scarring, because it (largely) worked for me. Except in my case, I've had excisions. Not lasering.

No_hope's not worth arguing with (based on his Acne.org nickname alone. That should've been the first tip-off for me). I would save my breath if I were you. It's like talking to a brick wall.

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It is sad how quick doctors are to suggest lasers and then use them so inadequately. Or worse, like you mentioned, sometimes it's not even doctors that use them at these medispas. It sounds like doctors like DRaGZ's are few and far between. Scar correction would be a lot more successful if each patient and each scar was evaluated and treated accordingly. Blanket treating scars with lasers leads to people like no_hope who believe lasers are the devil. And honestly, most of the results look meager and people aren't satisfied but that doesn't mean great results aren't possible with them.

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I wouldn't look at pictures as evidence at all. I'm not saying lasers don't have any potential to work. but pictures are just too easy to be manipulated nowadays. Even I could "create" such results as seen in the second picture with photoshop.

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Posted · Hidden by AKL, August 21, 2012 - No reason given
Hidden by AKL, August 21, 2012 - No reason given

laser only works on shallow scarring. laser wont work on deep scars that most likely need to be excised and what not.

Okay, for the love of God, will you stop spreading misinformation?

You don't like lasers, okay, fine. But there's no reason to keep lying about their efficacy, especially when there are many successful cases of it working on deep scars and since fractional lasers have a very low risk of complication if handled correctly.

lol my statements are based on multiple reviews. i beg to differ show some proof laser works on deep scarring. not shallow but DEEP scarring. just because you got laser doesnt mean the whole world has to get it.

What reviews? Did you focus on just the bad ones? Ignore the multitude of reviews from patients who claim they've gotten satisfactory results, even on deep acne scars?

You have a deep, deep bias against lasers for some reason. Fine, whatever. I would just prefer you don't spread lies about it.

He has a deep, deep bias against the entire industry of cosmetic dermatology, for some reason. And like you, he has told me that I claim the "whole world" needs to get the types of cosmetic treatment I have gotten to help reduce the appearance of my scarring, because it (largely) worked for me. Except in my case, I've had excisions. Not lasering.

No_hope's not worth arguing with (based on his Acne.org nickname alone. That should've been the first tip-off for me). I would save my breath if I were you. It's like talking to a brick wall.

lol super lame. i knew your air head self would come to his defense tsk tsk!

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Pictures look legit except the lighting in the third picture is definitely creating a fill. Even so, I don't think his results are that good. You can still see the scarring in the third picture. I see very little difference between day 0 and 30 and even in the different lighting at day 60, you can still see the scarring hasn't improved that much. I personally wouldn't be satisfied with those results, though his results would probably be pretty typical.

Acne scars are so very difficult to treat.

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just the fact there never honest with the before and after's raise some red flags.

I question before and after photos for all modalities, not just laser. While I agree the final photo is misleading, I think that level of improvement from laser is possible after multiple treatments.

I've also had the most improvement to deep scars from one laser treatment. My deep pits are now shallow. I believe I would have seen similar improvement to shallow scars if I had combined Active FX with Deep FX. I can't wait for my second laser treatment!

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just the fact there never honest with the before and after's raise some red flags.

I question before and after photos for all modalities, not just laser. While I agree the final photo is misleading, I think that level of improvement from laser is possible after multiple treatments.

I've also had the most improvement to deep scars from one laser treatment. My deep pits are now shallow. I believe I would have seen similar improvement to shallow scars if I had combined Active FX with Deep FX. I can't wait for my second laser treatment!

Hey TokyoGirl! I was wondering what happened to you! rolleyes.gif Don't wanna get off topic, or anything. But it's good to see you on these boards again. I guess we have just been contributing to different ones.

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Lighting really can make a huge difference on scars. Just this morning, I was outside trying to get a couple of pictures of my skin. It was very bright and sunny, and my scars and pores looked horrific. Unfortunately I was late for school and the only pictures I got had too long an exposure time to be very accurate, but my scars still look fairly visible and bad in them.

When I got back from school five hours later, I went to the exact same spot. The sun is still high, so it shouldn't have affected the results, but the weather had changed to overcast. And my skin actually looked really nice and scars looked quite unnoticeable! I had no idea it changes that much based on the weather, I always thought daylight is daylight, period. Maybe I should just move to a country with permanent overcast weather instead of getting treatments, heh.

Hey TokyoGirl! I was wondering what happened to you! rolleyes.gif Don't wanna get off topic, or anything. But it's good to see you on these boards again. I guess we have just been contributing to different ones.

I was wondering what happened to you, CherrySoda08. I think I've been seeing TokyoGirl more than you. But in any case, I'm glad you two are both active. :)

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Posted · Hidden by AKL, August 21, 2012 - No reason given
Hidden by AKL, August 21, 2012 - No reason given

laser only works on shallow scarring. laser wont work on deep scars that most likely need to be excised and what not.

Okay, for the love of God, will you stop spreading misinformation?

You don't like lasers, okay, fine. But there's no reason to keep lying about their efficacy, especially when there are many successful cases of it working on deep scars and since fractional lasers have a very low risk of complication if handled correctly.

lol my statements are based on multiple reviews. i beg to differ show some proof laser works on deep scarring. not shallow but DEEP scarring. just because you got laser doesnt mean the whole world has to get it.

What reviews? Did you focus on just the bad ones? Ignore the multitude of reviews from patients who claim they've gotten satisfactory results, even on deep acne scars?

You have a deep, deep bias against lasers for some reason. Fine, whatever. I would just prefer you don't spread lies about it.

He has a deep, deep bias against the entire industry of cosmetic dermatology, for some reason. And like you, he has told me that I claim the "whole world" needs to get the types of cosmetic treatment I have gotten to help reduce the appearance of my scarring, because it (largely) worked for me. Except in my case, I've had excisions. Not lasering.

No_hope's not worth arguing with (based on his Acne.org nickname alone. That should've been the first tip-off for me). I would save my breath if I were you. It's like talking to a brick wall.

you should see a shrink. i dont know how the org lets mental people post on here

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Yep, if you want to see them in the most horrific light possible then stand directly under a fluorescent light. It will bring out every imperfection on your face..not for the faint of heart :)

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laser only works on shallow scarring. laser wont work on deep scars that most likely need to be excised and what not.

Okay, for the love of God, will you stop spreading misinformation?

You don't like lasers, okay, fine. But there's no reason to keep lying about their efficacy, especially when there are many successful cases of it working on deep scars and since fractional lasers have a very low risk of complication if handled correctly.

lol my statements are based on multiple reviews. i beg to differ show some proof laser works on deep scarring. not shallow but DEEP scarring. just because you got laser doesnt mean the whole world has to get it.

I love how you keep trying to quote my posts with comments like this, "you should see a shrink. i dont know how the org lets mental people post on here" , yet they somehow manage not to be approved to remain on the threads.

I can see them in my e-mails, but not in this thread. Wonder why?

I don't post here on Acne.org, and contribute to threads to make enemies of people (apparently, you think that's the case, or now consider me some type of nemesis, since that comment I quoted was the second comment that didn't make it on the thread. That was pretty funny when you called me an "air-head", by the way), but I don't have a problem pointing out faulty reasoning, or when others can't hold up their end of the debate. This is the case with you. It isn't personal, I don't know you.

I definitely won't stoop to calling names, and recommending that people seek mental help if I don't know them well enough to recommend that they talk to a person qualified in the areas of mental wellness.

Alright, I've wasted enough time addressing your obvious dislike of me. This has gotten to be way off-topic, and I do not want to disrespect the OP.

Edited by CherrySoda08

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