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LACTIC PEELS AND SUPER CP SERUM

I've been lurking round here and other sites for a while gathering information. Seems the most effective treatments are going to be the use of retinoids, AHAs and BHAs and copper peptides. So I purchased a 55% lactic acid peel and Super CP serum to use with my Retin-A micro, Neutrogena, and Glytone products. I already know from experience that use of strong AHAs along with the Retin-A used sparingly but regualrly can do wonders for the clarity and overall appearance of my skin but I am looking to repair the former damage as well. I'll let you know how this goes. I did want to turn you guys on to a very informative website smartskincare.com. They don't sell any products it's bascially a guy with a PhD that has done his homework on skin care and then some. Download the PDF on skin rejuvenation free by submitting any product review. You'll likely learn why some of you have bad experiences with copper peptides and why you shouldn't use some products for long periods of time. There is also some great do it yourself recipes for making your own creams that are a lot less expensive on top of being more effective than the store bought brands.

: )

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Thanks for posting the link. Nice, intelligent articles. It's your web site right? evil.gifwink.gif I don't really want to write 4 100 word essays and give out my email addy just to get the 4 infopacks, though.

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Thanks for posting the link. Nice, intelligent articles. It's your web site right?  evil.gif  wink.gif  I don't really want to write 4 100 word essays and give out my email addy just to get the 4 infopacks, though.

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I am going to try to print out the info packs and scan them so that I can copy and past them here as I believe that everyone should read this information.

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I can testify that peels and Super Serum, can, over time, do wonders for scars. Some people say that they saw no difference in their scars doing this regimen, but I can honestly say for me that it worked great. However, you must do the peels a few times a week, and do this over at least a year's time. Then, you can potentially see a big difference.

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All kinds of scars including large boxcar, scarred pores, small pits, a few small scars, one huge scar that looked like a large gash on my forehead.

It was funny because the changes are so slow that you don't seem to notice the changes in your scars....I recall after about 14 months one day just looking at the small pits beside my nose and going: WOW! I never even noticed that those were getting so much smaller.

Again...the changes are steady only over time. Most people aren't patient enough to wait around for the changes. I can say too that I had a 35% tca full face peel during that time and I truly believe that I saw a lot of improvement after that peel, along with the CP Serum. The tca peel seemed to speed up the shrinkage of the scars, in other words. The tca peel doesn't do much for scars (except for very, very, shallow ones), but I noticed after the tca peel, that within the next few months after the peel, and using the Super serum twice a day, that they really started to close up and shrink. The only scars that seemingly weren't effected were some rather deep chickenpox scars.

There was another person named Catlover who said that over 6 months of twice/thrice weekly peels of glycolic acid (40%) and daily application of Super serum, that he/she got 50% improvement in his/her pitted scars.

I use a 50% lactic acid peel or a 80% salicylic acid peel every week, even now. I usually only used those peels (even when using the Super Serum) once a week because they are both pretty strong. Super Serum seems to break some people out, though.

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Cool beans, thanks for the info. I have been reading a lot of medical studies about peels for the last few hours, and I really do think they can possible be effective at thickening the skin and regenerating some collagen. It's just so hard to cut through the BS since so many docs are all about lasers, and people that sell skin care products with peptides, dmae, or whatever are all about...selling skin care products. Well, I am about to do my first 30% glycolic now. ninja.gif

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denise,

thanks for the post.

i just did a 23% TCA peel, and you can read the posts here.

wanted to ask you if you remember seeing a total disappearing of brown pigmentation/freckles/flat moles. (this is the main reason i did the TCA . to clear my skin from these flaws. i don't have much scars. or jut a few shallow ones.

by the way, isn't 80 % AHA home peel very high ? what do you see after a peel like that ? and how much time the recovery last ? when can you go back to work after this kinda peel ? smile.gif

i mean after i read such % in these forums i think my 10-20% glycolic acid products are a laugh smile.gif)

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yes. defenitly .

salicylic acid is BHA and not AHA.

gloycolic , and lactic , for example are AHA acids.

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I just bought a glycolic acid peel. IT's about thirty percent concentration.I've read that lactic acid peels are better. But I already ordered the product and paid for it. I can't change the order now. Should I discart my glycolic acid peel and switch to lactic acid or should I try glycolic acid peel? Is 30 percent harsh or is it just mild enough? Do I need to use a sunblock even if I don't get out that much? Thanks.

Denise2, what type of peels, and what type of scars are you talking about? Thanks

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Try the GA on a test patch first You could ask about their return policy GA is stronger/harsher than lactic acid so it can cause more irratation.

As for peels, yeah the % plays a role, but its more about the pH that determines the strength. The lower the pH the stronger the peel. For example a 40% LA at a .28 pH is way stronger than a 60% LA at 2.0 pH.

Peels are great, but there was a study done at the University of Penn that showed AHA can/could advacne the aging process...

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OldGuy: Keep in mind that the peels won't be effective by themselves. The copper peptides are what remodel the collagen. Just like peptides won't do too much by themselves. Dr. Pickert seems to think that a slight damage to the skin done by a peel is what precipitates the activity of the peptides. That probably explains why my 35% tca seemed to activate the peptide activity to help my scars.

Some: Peels of all kinds are excellent for cleaning up skin. I use a high peel percentage only because my skin is used to it. I've been using peels of all kinds for many years now.

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Denise, what do you think about doing Lactic peels and using ACV. I have been doing Lactic peels weekly and applying diluted ACV to a few scars I have during the week.

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FYI:

The 80% salicylic acid peel Denise uses is most definitely buffered. Last year, I e-mailed the site she got it from and they confirmed that it is buffered. Unbuffered 80% SA would probably take your face off. I use an unbuffered 20% SA peel and it is pretty intense. Denise can handle the 80% but I don't recommend it for new "peelers."

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Lumas: I would think that if you can handle it, a low percentage lactic acid peel would be ok. However, be sure to start out at a low percentage and keep it to once a week. Don't do the ACV the day before you do the peel, and don't resume until 48 hours after the peel. It's also always good to have a soothing ointment on hand for after peel care. Copper peptides is really good and soothing. I personally like Homepeels' cucumber/aloe gel. I use that after I do a peel and it's amazing. I keep it in my fridge. But I suppose you could do that with a good quality aloe vera too.

Robert is right; I don't recommend anyone do peels at the percentages I do them if they are just starting out. I actually only do the 80% salicylic acid peel once every three weeks, rotating it with other peels I do. Even then, I am careful.

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I said I would scan the info packets and post them here but after printing it out at 23 pages and reading that "these materials may not be reproduced or otherwise distributed without the written permission of the author" I have had second thoughts. What I will do is do a brief of the most important stuff that I have read that I think should be shared here considering the products people are using. Since I know how feels to be so ashamed of my face sometimes that I'll spend money needlessly, desperately trying this and that product with the end result being an empty wallet and skin that has not improved or worse, is worse. About my first peel, I indeed went overboard and three huge scabs on my face after doing the 55% lactic acid and using the Super CP serum. What was odd was that I had been using Retin-A micro along with Neutrogena's anti wrinkle blemish cream but only a couple of nights before and my face was clear and glowing with a few very small almost unnoticable pimples. But it was very even and tones looking. Oh, I did use the Glytone Oily skin face cream which has a Free acid value of 20% for a couple of days as well. I get pretty good results in skin clarity and tone just by using these products. Anyway, the next morning after my peel I noticed a lot of tiny scabs all over my face along with the big ones. I suppose this was all because I used the Retin-A so soon before? Perhaps all those scabs were pimples waiting to happen? Or could it be that those areas of my face were slightly irritated from the products that the peel just opened them up? I did email Dr. Pickart and he was not very helpful at all, in fact, acted like I was being a pain in the rear. What I want to do is use the products that I was using and somehow implement the peel and the CP serum into it since I was already getting good results from those. And because of what I have gathered, the products I am using are the ones that I can actually get results from, according to research and the effects on skin. I'll keep you guys updated on the healing of those scabs and on the improvment of my skin if any. Now for the modified version of the skinrejuventation info pack. I do strongly recommend you guys taking the time to do the product reviews to get them (infopacks) however. They are free after that and by doing the reviews, you can help someone possibly from spending money where they don't need to and living with disappointment. And that is basically what I am trying to do here. So here goes...

The infopack first talks about the skin aging process and then covers some no cost techniques to prevent wrinkles and slow the aging process. Then it goes over how to apply skin products including the sugar scrub. (I personally found this interesting because I have been using a brown sugar body scrub for years and it does wonders for the health of my skin.) He then gives instruction on how to test to see how well your skin absorbs ingredients. There is something about moisturzing. Then he discusses "Common skincare misconceptions that cost you money and waste your time." On the list were retinol, topical collagen and elastin, B vitamins (which are gainly popularity I believe), Camomille, and Aloe vera among other things. But the most important in this infopack I think is the "Clinically studied non-invasive skin rejuvention treatments." He goes on to stay that the only reliable information comes from actual clinical studies and this is where he gets his information. So the following is a list of the things that DO work and how.

Alpha Hydroxy Acids - AHAs were found to peel off excess dead skin cells (keratinocyctes) and more importantly, stimulated the growth and thickening of the dermis and epidermis. In another study, AHA led to a 25% increase in skin thickness , improved quality of elastic fibers and increased density of collagen. No results were seen with using AHAs of less than 8%. He also mentioned the "Hayflick Limit" and that AHAs can possibly cause you to hit that limit earlier than you should. Using a 2-3 month on and off again regimen was recommended.

Tretinoin (Retin-A Renova) - Increases responsiveness of skin cells to epidermal growth factor (EGF), the natural hormone that stimulates skin growth. Can reduce fine lines and skin roughness, increase epidermal thickness, and stimulate the deposition of collagen.

Estrogens - Using topical estrogen in a controlled group study yielded the following results: after 6 months of use, a marked improvement in skin elasticity and firmness was noted; wrinkle depth and pore size decreased over 60%. Skin moisture and collagen synthethis increaded significantly.

The following are "Less documented but possibly useful treatments"

Vitamin C - No large comprehensive studies on it's effectiveness but indirect research indicates that it may help with collagen synthesis. The problem with Vitamin C is that it must be highly concentrated to work, at least 10%. It can be iritating and if it oxidizes, can be harmful for your skin by promoting free radical formation. They are also expensive. Dr. Todorov wrote alot about it that I am not going to cover as it is simply too long but those were his main points about it. He did say that making it yourself might be the best way and explained how to do that in his other Do it yourself info packet.

Furfuryladenine (kinetin and Kinerase) - He basically states that unless this ingredient is highly concentrated, your not likely to see results. Studies indicate that it may be a promising new alternative to Retin-A but as it stands is not because of lack of studies to support it's effectiveness. It's also expensive.

Antioxidants - Supposedly slow down free radical damage and may slow down aging. Most are destroyed the longer they are exposed to air which makes most creams not so effective. Worth the read but not worth my time typing it all out...

Copper Peptides - He wrote a whole page on CPs but I am only going to list the highlights, those things that get me excited. The benefits of copper peptide for wound healing are well established. They have been found to promote the degradation of "abnormal" collagen (found in scars), synthesis of normal collagen, and elastin and other components of skin matrix as well as facillitate migration and rearrangement of cells to form smoother skin. He did write this which I found interesting "Typically copper peptides should be applied once a day. It is prudent not to apply copper peptides at the very same time as AHA or retinods, allowing a few hours between applications. Skip a day or two after each week of applying copper peptides. Some experts also recommend discontinuing copper peptides for 2-3 weeks after each 2-3 month use. While moderate use of CPs has an antioxiddant effect, excessive use can have the opposite effect by increasing levels of free copper, which promotes free radical damage.

Colostrum - It contains epidermal growth factor, a substance that stimulates growth of skin. No real substantial research on it's effectiveness as a topical. Best bought and made yourself.

Thats the end of the list. He does talk about a comprehensive approach to collagen rebuilding using some of the things mentioned. It's worth a read but I am tired of typing for now.

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Wow! Thanks a lot for such a thorough review - you're a real asset to this board. A couple of things that struck me:

While moderate use of CPs has an antioxiddant effect, excessive use can have the opposite effect by increasing levels of free copper, which promotes free radical damage.

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Wow! Thanks a lot for such a thorough review - you're a real asset to this board. A couple of things that struck me:  1 step forward, 2 steps back?

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Thanks for sharing that. I have read about others that had this problem as well. It really should state that in the directions and on the bottle.

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All kinds of scars including large boxcar, scarred pores, small pits, a few small scars, one huge scar that looked like a large gash on my forehead.

It was funny because the changes are so slow that you don't seem to notice the changes in your scars....I recall after about 14 months one day just looking at the small pits beside my nose and going:  WOW!  I never even noticed that those were getting so much smaller.

Again...the changes are steady only over time.  Most people aren't patient enough to wait around for the changes.  I can say too that I had a 35% tca full face peel during that time and I truly believe that I saw a lot of improvement after that peel, along with the CP Serum.  The tca peel seemed to speed up the shrinkage of the scars, in other words.  The tca peel doesn't do much for scars (except for very, very, shallow ones), but I noticed after the tca peel, that within the next few months after the peel, and using the Super serum  twice a day, that they really started to close up and shrink.  The only scars that seemingly weren't effected were some rather deep chickenpox scars.

There was another person named Catlover who said that over 6 months of twice/thrice weekly peels of glycolic acid (40%) and daily application of Super serum, that he/she got 50% improvement in his/her pitted scars.

I use a 50% lactic acid peel or a 80% salicylic acid peel every week, even now.  I usually only used those peels (even when using the Super Serum) once a week because they are both pretty strong.  Super Serum seems to break some people out, though.

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Hey Catlover....I'm glad I checked this thread! It's good to hear that most of your improvement has been permanent. I think when you do peels every week, it tends to tighten your skin, making scars look better than they really are. I havn't used the copper peptides on any kind of regular basis at all for probably a year, though I am definitely planning on adding them back in after my next needling on Saturday.

It was good to hear from you again. Maya doesn't post here anymore, sorry.

Sometimes she posts here, though: http://www.absoluteacneinfo.com/acne-forum...8200255b2818330

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It was nice to hear from you again, Catlover.

These products require lots of patience, but they do seem to work.

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