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In Re: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php?showtopic=31613

Hey curiousz,

I'm a med student whose takin' Accutane...I really don't understand your claim...I've done my undergrade in Molecular Biology and Genetics and I would like to challange your claim that accutane "alters" the regulation and expression of DNA...first of all, do you have any idea what that means? Your posts are very very generalized....

Quote:

"It was originally designed as a cancer drug. It was intended to slow down the growth of tumor cells. In the same way, it slows down the creation of regular cells. This is the mechanism. It's designed to regulate gene expression."

where did you get this from? and what is the mechanism? you say that it "slows down the creation of regular cells"...how? does is alter checkpoint controls at G1, or G2 stage? or does it alter synthesis of DNA like chemotheraputic agents such as melphalan which inhibits DNA and RNA synthesis via formation of carbonium ions? Does it alter tumour supressor genes like p53 gene or does it create activate proto-oncogenes? Does it induce apoptosis?

In science, we tend to back things up with evidence....i believe your just using hearsay...if not, I apologize...but please back up what you're talking about and stop using laymen's terms....

Quote:

"The changes associated with accutane all indicate that gene expression is being altered, because that's the positive benefit of accutane. It deals with all the problems of acne, but it also changes other parts of your body as well. It's like using a rocket launcher to open up a door, it gets the job done but it damages everything around it."

First of all, there is no evidence that gene expression is being altered..what proof do you have of that the changes associate with accutane are doing this? No one knows how accutane really works, other than it decreases sebacuous glands and reduces keritinization (do you evenknow what those terms means)...how does it do that? no one really knows? It could be DNA, but it could be targeting factors/complexs/receptors specific for sebacuous tissue.......

All I found regarding DNA and Vit A is that vit A bines to proteins to form a transcription complex that binds to DNA to trigger the transcription of growth factors. In epithelial cells, this action of vitamin A controlles of cell size, shape, number & differentiation. Toxicity leads to overstimulation of growth factors and mitosis, with higher cell turnover and death....but this is a grey area because Accutane is not Vit A but a derivate...and you are not taking toxic doses of Vit A unless you take a supplement (eg eat a lot of liver)...( i dont want to go into the specifics of vit A metabolism..beyond scope of discussion).....

All I have to say, and I hate to say, but its a bunch of crock...I visited that website and I just want to say that I don't know why people feel that Roche "needs to be sued" or "must compensate us for our suffering"........all these things that I read on the board are mostly likely nothing but hypochrondriacs suffering from either bordertype personality disorder or paranoid disorder....

Yes some times doctors do make mistakes...but gimme a break we're still human too...and secondly, when bad side effects do happen, sometimes its unpreventable AND unpredictable....like cancer drugs...they cause you to lose your hair and make you sick...are we to stop using them in the treatment of acute lymphoblastic leukemia? Some psychiatric drugs may cause arrythemias...are we to stop them? General anestheisis carries a very small risk of death - are we to do surgeries will patients fully awake?

Its all about balancing the risks versus benifits.......why you people cant understand I dont know....sometimes i truly believe the people on that board are suffering from psychosis.....how do "moms of Accutane sufferers" become an expert on acne and Accutane?

The classic argument I've heard is that Accutane causes depression and suicide...how people are suing Accutane 'cause of that...you know what? that's almost pure bullshit...why?

No studies have found conclusive links....too many confounding factors...I mean, it COULD be possible....but conclusive links are based on sound scientific evidence...and none has been found.....its just that people "see" and association due to media propeganda and then automatically think association = causation...

I'm sorry, but as a user of Accutane, AND a medical student, I feel really strongly about people who try to scare others, or jump to conclusions, OR think that they know what they're talking about when they really know sh*t.

Like your quote:

"There's a lot of unknowns about this drug, and the long term side effects can potentially be very serious. I've got a friend on accutane and his skin is completely clear, however he has also had cuts/lesions that have scabbed over and have NOT healed...they have left a huge red patch of skin and he doesn't know what it is. Any drug that affects cellular creation like this is serious, and 10-20 years down the line you MAY regret what you put into your system."

Long term side effects very serious? ok...but what about the probabilities? its so easy to blame everything wrong on a drug......"affects cellular creation" -??? what the hell does that mean? its sounds like a bunch of fluff!

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ah very nice post, seems you beat him in every way haha...and i understood a bit of what you were saying...g1..g2 phase...but i took biology a year ago wink.gif

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Hey m.d. student,

I am truly glad that you took the time to write a reply to the "fluff" as you call it that curious z wrote. I was getting kinda nervous after hearing all that stuff. I do have some joint pain, but I know the risks involved. I weighed the pros and cons, and I decided that I would really like a clear face.

Thanks a lot.

Ellen

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m.d. student-

I'm not a medical student, nor am I a doctor. Much of what I've read about what accutane does to the human body comes from my extensive reading on isotretinoin.

If you search "accutane and cell growth" in google.com, you should find many resources which back up my claim that accutane regulates the expression and creation of cellular growth. If it didn't, why would it work?

http://www.usadrug.com/IMCAccess/ConsDrugs...etinoincd.shtml

How does it work?

    * Isotretinoin decreases gland size in the skin.

    * It also affects cell growth and reproduction.

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hmm but i wonder if this affects all? Some people have probs later and some dont? My hair stylist took accutane when she was younger, shes 40 now and has no problems

but i mean come on, if it changed your dna, and scientists know tons and tons of people are taking this drug, they probably wouldve figured out if this actually changed your dna

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Thanks for your post m.d......while I agree that all different viewpoints is a great thing and I'm glad to hear whatever I can about Accutane (even if its scary), its much appreciated to have a dialogue going on based on what we actually KNOW to be true...and what's constricted by science.

The fact that we don't know exactly what Accutane is doing is a little worrisome and causes my imagination to get ahead of me. But I've been reading curious' posts carefully and they don't make sense to me. Genetically modified? Now I know there's a great deal of technology out there that can accomplish a whole bunch of freaky deaky things...but why would a substance which is essentially a vitamin A derivative and came out over 20 years ago (way before GMOs!) have the ability to do that?

I'm confused...if it were really leaving minute traces of the drugs in receptors that would surely be detectable and national news by now?? And not restricted to an internet message board?

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heyy mdstudent..first of all, i think its AWESOME to have an aspiring md on the site, best of luck w/ your studies! youve already contributed quite a few informative and scientifically-backed articles on accutane, and as a soon-to-be-accutane-user, i just wanna say thanks a mil, its really good stuff and has definitely helped me to deepen my understanding of hte drug. im also going to pursue science (altho not medecine, id like to get into research!) and i can actually semi-understand many of the processes you discuss, lol its crazie! oh yea, and altho this isnt acne related, i wanted to know how you found your BSc in molecular biology and genetics? thats the EXACT program i wanna get into! im in my last year of secondary school, but thats what i plan to pursue next year. anyways, thanks again for all your posts, theyre great! take care!

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heyy mdstudent..first of all, i think its AWESOME to have an aspiring md on the site, best of luck w/ your studies! youve already contributed quite a few informative and scientifically-backed articles on accutane, and as a soon-to-be-accutane-user, i just wanna say thanks a mil, its really good stuff and has definitely helped me to deepen my understanding of hte drug. im also going to pursue science (altho not medecine, id like to get into research!) and i can actually semi-understand many of the processes you discuss, lol its crazie! oh yea, and altho this isnt acne related, i wanted to know how you found your BSc in molecular biology and genetics? thats the EXACT program i wanna get into! im in my last year of secondary school, but thats what i plan to pursue next year. anyways, thanks again for all your posts, theyre great! take care!

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Very interesting... I took Acutane 20 years ago for cystic acne and I loved it. I was clear for about 10 years, then on and off for the next ten. As far as I know I'm not psychotic or genetically mutated and both of my children are healthy, intelligent and beautiful.

Two months ago I decided to go on it again because the breakouts were a little too frequent for me. I am wondering this time about the side effects ...I seem to have them, when before I didn't. My doctor is not the best (yes looking for a new one), but what are the stats for serious problems? Symptoms are so generic: "stomach pain, head ache, back pain' I have all of the above on a regular basis anyway!!! What the...? Well, the benefits this time kicked in within a week, so I think I'll make this my last month... any thoughts?

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