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waterboy

My Dermarolling And Shallow Scar Log

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Hello all,

I got these rolling scars and sub-optimal skin texture from using accutane and being extremely harsh to my skin while dealing with moderate acne approximately 10 years ago. I've dermarolled approximately 5 times and am beginning to increase in pressure and frequency. I use a cheap eBay purchased 1.5 mm roller and apply OTC garnier anti-sun-damage moisturizer (moderate amount of VIT C) and eBay bought ($30) copper peptides with HA.

I haven't seen much improvement and I don't think I've been rolling hard enough. I'm going to mark this post as the beginning of my rolling and post pictures to really see if there is any improvement. By posting the pics, it will really help me really see if there is any improvement.

I just rolled 5 days ago. I will roll again in a few weeks and post a couple pictures. If rolling doesn't seem to be working, I will move on and possibly TCA that largest scar at the top right.

Thanks for reading. Feedback on my skin is appreciated. I know my scarring is mild. If you feel that I should just leave it alone, feel free to post this. Thanks again.

post-37352-0-86896100-1330035385_thumb.j

post-37352-0-86896100-1330035385_thumb.j

Edited by waterboy
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Alright, I've decided, after years of reading about it, to do a 50% tca cross on that one crater that you see. I'll post some pics.

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For approximately 3 months, I'd say. I've maybe seen 5-10% imrpovement. I also dermarolled approximately 9 months to a year ago and saw very little improvement. The difference, however, is I'm using copper peptides this go around.

Edited by waterboy
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I'm questioning whether a Jessner Peel and/or a 20-25% TCA peel would actually be the way to go to treat my uneven texture and shallow/rolling scars that I show above.

I just ordered 50% TCA to try on the largest scar that I have. I'm wondering if this is the way to go tough... Ugh. I have a love/hate relationship with trying to self-treat my scars. However, I am skeptical of dermatologists and them being a waste of money. I have not had good experience in the past.

I know there's a cure out there. I should probably try a Jessner and/or 20-25% TCA peel.

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Guest

For approximately 3 months, I'd say. I've maybe seen 5-10% imrpovement. I also dermarolled approximately 9 months to a year ago and saw very little improvement. The difference, however, is I'm using copper peptides this go around.

Wehn you rolled for 9 months a year ago what was your program like? How long were the needles? Which topicals? How often did you roll? Etc.?

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I think my only topical was the garnier OTC vit C/anti-sun-damage cream. Length was 2.0! I only rolled a couple of times and didn't see much improvement. This time I'm going to do it hard, and for a decent length of time, and try to do it every 2 - 4 weeks.

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I would think that you should do it less often, but that is just my opinion.

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Yeah, I've read that repeatedly, but I've been trying different ways of doing it. I have to say, I rolled 2 weeks apart this time, and I definitely have seen a reshaping of my scar tissue. The rolling scar is definitely narrowing. I don't know if this is finally the rolling catching up or what.

I will post a picture with the same lighting and angle tonight.

In the "50% of you don't need to treat your scars!" post, it was just stated that 8 - 10 weeks apart per rolling session (they are speaking of hard, professional treatments) is best. I have not been rolling as hard as a professional can with anesthetics. I will stick to 4 weeks. Also, my CP serum has HA in it, and this could also be making a difference.

DudleyDoRight just posted somewhere in the forum a NY Times article that stated that HA injections are proven effective at treating scars/wrinkles. This same article stated that HA is not effective when just applied topically. Maybe, as stated on these board previously, the rolling is helping out a lot with the absportion of the HA deeper into the skin.

Edited by waterboy
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hi waterboy.

1 qn.

1) do you roll to the point where points of blood are seen? (to what degree?)

Here is the link to this amazing improvement this Thailand Girl Had.

a) She did it deep in the skin. With Ana. (See how bloodied her face is)

b) IPL was done. Although unneccessary

c) Within 6mths, her skin looks much better

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Hello all! Well, I've been rolling now approx. once every 4 weeks since I last posted. Over the past 6 months I have definitely noticed a "filling effect" going on with my rolling/boxcar scars.

The first picture that I posted really shows the bad skin texture and scars that I've dealt with. I can definitely say that rolling has atleast created some improvement since that first picture was taken.

My original rolling scar that is very obvious in the first picture has definitely been reduced as new skin has been, literally, pushing the scar tissue into a more slender form. I'm thinking about a little bit of TCA once the scar tissue is no longer responding to rolling.

Topicals I use: Wal-mart "anti-wrinkle" cream (based on Neutrogena's Retinol containing "original" anti-wrinkle cream), Copper Peptides and HA. I also take vitamins B, C, and zinc.

Pretty cool to see some results after 6 months. I'm going to be switching from the dermaroller that I use (cheap one off ebay 1.5 mm) to a dermastamp (1.5mm). Thanks for reading!

I'm curious: Does anyone else see a difference?

Edited by waterboy
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Waterboy:

I think you need to educate yourself better on these techniques before you do them.

For example; one of the first rules of derm rolling is to prep the skin with a Vitamin A and C topical for approx a month prior to rolling.

As far as rolling frequency your right some say softer frequent rolls, others say less frequent vigorous rolls.

If you understand that collagen formation is a slow tedious process, then it would make sense to roll less frequently with a little more force.

It takes approx 5 weeks for the initial phase of collagen formation to finish. And then another several weeks for the whole process to finish.

If you are repeatedly rolling, chances are you are noticing micro-swelling rather than actual results. That's not to say you haven't seen any results, I'm sure you have, but keep that in mind.

Post roll you are suppose to dress the skin in a non-acidic Vitamin A and C serum to help collagen formation and healing. Your also suppose to avoid the sun at all costs during this time.

After about a week, LED light therapy has been found to dramatically increase results and should be used weekly from there on out.

I think if you do derm rolling right, you will see better results.

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Wow, thanks for the great information! Can you, or anyone else, recommend some reasonably priced topicals that fit this category? Where can one find "non-acidic" vitamin c cream?

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There is no such thing as "non-acidic" vitamin C. Vitamin C is ascorbic acid. It's an acid in and of itself. >_>

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I do not use anything other than a roller. For me, there is an initial swelling, for perhaps 3-5 days and after that, the swelling falls and may scars look *HIDEOUS* for about a week after. At this point, the scars begin to soften.

At any rate, I roll every 2 to 3 weeks, is this too frequently, do you think? I'm seeing good result, some of the scars on my face are actually gone (they were very, very shallow, not even half as thick as a dime, it was mostly PIH).

I'm having trouble getting rid of a few deeps ones on my temples. There is good improvement, but they're still pretty noticable. I'm thinking about subcision, perhaps.

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Look for a vitamin c product with magnesium ascorbyl phosphate, as opposed to ascorbic acid. MAP is a vit. C derivative thats more stable yet less irritating than ascorbic acid and is apparently just as effective for collagen production.

I've used dermalogica's chroma-white extreme C in the past which is based on MAP. It's fantastic but very pricy.

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Clearwaters, is it really necessary to have a non-acidic vitamin C, though? Panic!!, does acidic vitamin C inhibit collagen growth?

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Clearwaters, is it really necessary to have a non-acidic vitamin C, though? Panic!!, does acidic vitamin C inhibit collagen growth?

You can make your own Vitamin C if you in crystal form and follow an online recipe to make it into a liquid.

Yes its necessary to not use a harsh form of A & C esp post roll when your skin is in an inflammatory state.

You actually want there to be inflammation initially since this signals the body's healing response to do what needs to be done.

Both A & C are essential for skin repair & collagen formation.

Not to mention LEDS.

I'm not bashing you, but you guys shouldn't jump into this without properly educating yourself. I researched for several months before I even considering starting.

Google Dr. Des Fernandes and Derm Rolling.

I do not use anything other than a roller. For me, there is an initial swelling, for perhaps 3-5 days and after that, the swelling falls and may scars look *HIDEOUS* for about a week after. At this point, the scars begin to soften.

At any rate, I roll every 2 to 3 weeks, is this too frequently, do you think? I'm seeing good result, some of the scars on my face are actually gone (they were very, very shallow, not even half as thick as a dime, it was mostly PIH).

I'm having trouble getting rid of a few deeps ones on my temples. There is good improvement, but they're still pretty noticable. I'm thinking about subcision, perhaps.

Frequency depends on the size of the roller being used. Also you should prep the skin for a month prior to rolling and use it post roll as well. LED light therapy post roll will increase results.

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BTW, I just bought True Radiance Vitamin A & C Serum after this post, and an older one on acne.org, definitely sent me in the direction of Vitamin A and C (and a stable/low pH version of C). I'm pretty psyched.

Even with just taking Vitamin C orally and using a super cheap OTC Neutrogena product (that contains retinol aka Vitamin A), and using a $30 ebay bought CP/HA serum, I've seen results from derma rolling.

So there. Now I'll see even more results, for which I thank you.

Oh, the True Radiance lady is also sending me the "Silver Cream" sampler (contains Marine Collagen) for free.

Edited by waterboy
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For example; one of the first rules of derm rolling is to prep the skin with a Vitamin A and C topical for approx a month prior to rolling.

[...]

Post roll you are supposed to dress the skin in a non-acidic Vitamin A and C serum to help collagen formation and healing. Your also suppose to avoid the sun at all costs during this time.

I assume this would apply to needling just as well? I'm considering it with topicals and LED light therapy, but I'm only starting to look more into this. I don't want to get my hopes up in case it doesn't work, but so far I find this very intriguing. And it's still good to know what topicals are essential, even if I'm not going to buy anything yet. Or well, I did already order some Terproline Professional actually, since I figured it's going to be useful whatever I do.

Anyways, I think your skin looked pretty good to begin with, waterboy. And I can definitely see the improvement in your pictures! I'm glad it seems to be working for you. Have you considered purchasing LED lights to use with derma rolling?

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Thank you, Austra, for the compliment. I have not considered purchasing LED lights due to the cost (hundreds). I have been using my True Radiance 1% retinol and 10% Vitamin C (product also has green tea, lactic acid, and other ingredients) and I've been enjoying the results.

I'm actually waiting on a bottle of 12.5% TCA that I ordered from MUAC. The Vitamin A and C serum will help with both pre-rolling and pre-chemical peeling. I'm going to start low and work high with TCA. I'll probably start by doing 1 or 2 layers with the 12.5% (2 layers definitely on my one scarred cheek).

I'll keep a photo log here with my results.

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