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AutonomousOne1980

an argument for a high protein diet

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so after years of studying a bunch of crap i never intended to study, ive been led to a possible idea that a high protein diet is very beneficial, but im not quite sure about that conclusion, so i thought i discuss some of my ideas with you, just for fun.

so in the macro nutrients we have-

fat(poly/mono unsaturates,and saturated),

protein( essential amino acids) and

carbs(complex/vs simple, and the glycemic index concept),

the general suggestion of macro nutrients is a ratio of 25-35% daily calories from fat and the rest some other ratio of protein and carbs. from my own observations and the existing science i believe the 25-35% fat is a decent guidline, but im still evaluating the carb/protein part of it. i see more negative aspects of consuming more carbs due to the effects on blood glucose, particulary simple sugars or high gi foods, rather then starches/polysacharrides/complex carbs. which brings me back to protein which im not aware has much effect on blood glucose at all, but another plus for protein is that many of the amino acids become very important molecules in the body,like DNA, neurotransmitters, and most surprisingly, antioxidants. whereas im not sure carbs have any other job besides providing cells with energy, or providing the brain with energy. so from these statements, if they are all in fact somewhat truthful as i do believe they are, it seems that it would be more beneficial to the body to run on an even higher protein content, rather then a higher carb diet.

also, fats can become oxidized and can damage dna and all other protein molecules, yet protein becomes antioxidents, for example tryptophan>melatonin and cysteine>glutathione, so obviously you wouldnt want to skew on the ratio of higher fat to protein, and may even want to make sure you have more protein in your diet then is suggested, compared to fat. and too many carbs can lead to uncontrolled insulin levels, and possibly to dysbiosis, but protein, doesnt really seem to carry so many negative like the other macro nutrients, at least none that i am aware of, besides the matter in which they are cooked, if we refer to animal flesh that is as a protein source, and the formatio of heterocyclic amines which are carcinogenic, but egg protein requires little heat to cook at all, same with milk protein, but meat can be slow cooked, and it is also better that way, other then that, high protein diet seems good for the body, oh except the fact that meat contains no fiber, so there are only some issues.

would anyone else agree with this line of reasoning? or have any other thoughts to add?

Edited by AutonomousOne1980

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Dude.. you change your mind every 5 minutes. Have you ever actually tried eating in the ways you propose?

Protein is good, but the right protein, in the right amounts. When I eat too much protein (chicken, fish) I start to feel sick. Fat intake needs to be higher.

Also fiber is rubbish, we don't need it.

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Dude.. you change your mind every 5 minutes. Have you ever actually tried eating in the ways you propose?

Protein is good, but the right protein, in the right amounts. When I eat too much protein (chicken, fish) I start to feel sick. Fat intake needs to be higher.

Also fiber is rubbish, we don't need it.

change my mind about what?

have i ever tried eating in the ways which i propose? yes i have eaten protein before man.

im just saying that a higher protein diet, might not be so bad, thats all. i dont recall saying yesterday, or even 5 minutes ago that we should not eat any protein at all? so i am not changing my mind from a prior position of saying protein is bad.

fiber from brown rice has been shown to adsorb carcinogenic substances from enterohepatic circulation so the body can get rid of them, also, soluble fiber can be fermented by goo bacteria in the intestine to create short chain fatty acids to reduce ph and inhibit the colonization of pathogens. perhaps you are right and we do not NEED it, it has been shown to have some great benefits either way.

Edited by AutonomousOne1980

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Protein is good, up until a certain point. I believe that in terms of caloric ratio, humans were definitely eating as much protein, if not more, as carbs. Fat was probably the least consumed macronutrient (when you consider that back before modern agriculture, and even at the start of modern agriculture, animals were free to roam around and graze and thus their meat contained more muscle and less fat.) Protein and Carbs are probably very close though, even though protein is easier to get in abundance, due to their abundance in starchy veggies, tubers, nuts and seeds, carbs were eaten in moderate amounts (humans definitely ate more carbs than would be allowed on a modern low-carb diet.)

There's evidence that protein actually helps the body absorb calcium and magnesium for the bones, within a certain threshold, but after that it seems to do the exact opposite. Also not all fat is susceptible to oxidation, saturated fat is very stable and PUFAs are on the opposite end of the spectrum. MUFAs fall somewhere in the middle but there's also evidence that MUFAs might be more beneficial than SFAs when it comes to your lipid profile. Ideally you want to include both SFA (primarily) and some MUFAs and limit PUFAs.

Edited by chunkylard

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Protein is good, up until a certain point. I believe that in terms of caloric ratio, humans were definitely eating as much protein, if not more, as carbs. Fat was probably the least consumed macronutrient (when you consider that back before modern agriculture, and even at the start of modern agriculture, animals were free to roam around and graze and thus their meat contained more muscle and less fat.) Protein and Carbs are probably very close though, even though protein is easier to get in abundance, due to their abundance in starchy veggies, tubers, nuts and seeds, carbs were eaten in moderate amounts (humans definitely ate more carbs than would be allowed on a modern low-carb diet.)

There's evidence that protein actually helps the body absorb calcium and magnesium for the bones, within a certain threshold, but after that it seems to do the exact opposite. Also not all fat is susceptible to oxidation, saturated fat is very stable and PUFAs are on the opposite end of the spectrum. MUFAs fall somewhere in the middle but there's also evidence that MUFAs might be more beneficial than SFAs when it comes to your lipid profile. Ideally you want to include both SFA (primarily) and some MUFAs and limit PUFAs.

perhaps dietary fat from animals was less abundant then it is today, it may have also been more nutritious too, containing more vitamin d perhaps. its becoming harder for me to really interpret what some of the results of studys on monounsaturated fats on ldl/hdl levels really mean, well some things are a given like if you have existing heart disease, too much saturated fat raises ldl, which would be a bad thing if you already have a blockage. but i recently read that vitamin k is transported through ldl and is heart protective due to its actions in the regulation of excess calcium in the blood, so its getting harder to say flat out that low ldl levels are considered healthy in all circumstances. of course the ratio of hdl to ldl seems to be a more important factor.

unfortunatly it is not true that vegetables are a good source of protein, but nuts do seem to be, minus the fat content.

Edited by AutonomousOne1980

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The thing is, it's not as black and white as saying X type of fat is bad for X cholesterol.

There's different types of LDL and HDL cholesterol and there is absolutely no way you can get an accurate measure of health just by your LDL/HDL scores. You need a full lipid profiling.

Depending on the size of the LDL, some is actually quite good and helps the body utilize cholesterol even and some LDL is bad. Some HDL is not that wonderful either. I suggest you read up on that a bit because it's probably part of the reason why many people here don't really buy into the whole dietary cholesterol = high somatic cholesterol.

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Yeah I agree more protein then carbs. Now a days people get way more carbs then protein. Typical modern diet- Start the day off with cereal or a muffin, eat a sandwhich for lunch, pizza or pasta at dinner, ya know people just eat tons of carbs. People who go really low in carbs just seems too extreme to me. I did that and just had no energy, my brain was so fuzzed. I'm all about balance, but yeah slightly more protein then carbs.

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I dont think you need to eat a cow at every meal, but I do think you should eat more good quality protein than carbs, and most of your carbs should come from fruits and veggies. Fish and eggs are particularly good in my opinion!

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which brings me back to protein which im not aware has much effect on blood glucose at all,

Many amino acids stimulate insulin directly. The most insulinemic amino acids: leucine, valine, lysine, and isoleucine. Which are abundant in dairy.

And yes, too many carbs, consumed in high GL meals, drinks and snacks elevate blood sugar. So don't have too many in high GL meals.

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