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7 hours ago, Perene said:

It’s not necessarily pancreatitis. I got tested for that before 

In a nutshell, it might be the case that whilever there is systemic dryness, there’s going to be systemic inflammation....

Just can’t lose the brain inflammation, I grind my teeth almost every night, got no solution 

 

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1 hour ago, Doctorcolumbus said:

Please, include NoFap in your experiment

Nofap doesn’t need to be included, it’s a natural consequence of having low or no libido. You can’t feel about sex/women as you used to, so it’s natural to spend days, weeks or even years without overthinking about it. 

Sure there’s also some tiredness with how women and society are these days, but make no mistake that low T, high prolactin and other deficiencies will not only impact your libido, it will also affect your ability to lose fat, gain muscle or a simple thing like studying, since these men also suffer from cognitive issues. Saying it’s a mere sexual dysfunction doesn’t tell the whole story, the consequences are more serious than simply becoming asexual.

Besides all the supplements I suggested there’s also BORON, which initially I thought about including yet decided not to at this time. More about it can be read here: https://crazybulk.com/blog/boron-testosterone/

Right now I am only relying on foods that have it, even though they combined on a daily basis don’t add much. I think the most important change for me is to get a lot more serious at the gym with a new workout routine, and of course including healthy fats in the diet. A low fat diet is practically imposed by everyone these days and this is exactly why many have low testosterone.

Here’s another story explaining what needs to be done to increase these levels:

http://spartantraveler.com/testosterone-diet-2015/

Edited by Perene

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For years I had to restrict to a diet of white rice, lowfat shrimp and beef, and plain homemade wheat bread. Otherwise I had terrible cramps and couldn't be productive. Here's what allowed me to expand my diet to approximate a normal person's, with some unremarkable IBS from stuff like spicy food:

Low-dose Naltrexone (LDN)
Nortriptyline
UDCA 1 pill per meal

That's how I escaped the malnutrition trap. Now that I'm no longer hypersensitive, I can try lots of medications without getting wrecked. So I'm sure I'll make further gains as I continue to tinker.

Mainstream doctors were worthless for me. The supposed experts suggested I was crazy, lazy and self-harming. I suggested they were incompetent and stupid. A holistic doctor who quit her mainstream practice in order to deliver a higher standard of care did a broader battery of tests that found one biomarker off the charts, an IBD inflammation marker.

UDCA was the last piece of the puzzle. The first two medications only reduced the severity of my symptoms. Only UDCA allowed me to expand my diet while remaining productive. Its dramatic instant effect indicates that the cause was indeed bile-system damage from Accutane.

Yes, I tried UDCA before, but discontinued when its effects were maybe mixed. Data was noisy. This was a reintroduction, with a different dosage pattern - light and only with food, which is contrary to instructions. Also it was together with Nortriptyline and LDN, which I hadn't done before.

As soon as I noticed I wasn't getting punished for dietary infractions, I ate like a starving man, to nauseating excess in fact, and found my new, gentler, more reasonable limits. I've never cared much about food except to try to eat a reasonably healthy ancestral diet. The mainstream doctors were quacks as wrong about butts as brains.

I don't have the infrastructure for quantitative self-analysis yet, so I just look for big qualitative results like the above. For that reason, I don't want to get into specifics. We're likely all different. However the above three medications are anti-inflammatory. Do your diligence if you think they might help your case. My dosages are low to standard.

Repeating - I'm busy working on a tool generally useful for the chronically ill and don't have time to answer queries specific to my case, which probably aren't generalizable anyway. Maybe I'll write it later.

Remember that just because someone's here doesn't mean Accutane caused his problems. Causation is not zero sum, noisy data kills, and everybody dies of something. Survival is a fitness test and your brain is on trial.

 

Oh yeah, my sig reports on the effects of LDN. It was a big improvement, but I couldn't keep the expanded diet and be productive. Each of the three meds was a big step forward. The first two were almost enough to expand diet and keep productivity, but not quite. UDCA put it way over that threshold.

I went from spending a lot of the day in enforced greyout horizontality to being an unremarkable IBS case, so that's a lot of subjective space to announce multiple tiers of curedness. As I said I'm sure I'll improve further from here; the deadlock is broken.

Edited by JosephBuchignani

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Interesting you got your hands on Udca.

I did try Tudca on and off with no real sign of change, actually my body kinda rejected it when I took in to kinesiologist.

You got me thinking I should introduce Taurine again - it is good for bile flow and I’ve tested favourably with it at kinesiologist.

Thx for the info in regard to inflammation 

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On 10/6/2019 at 8:33 PM, TrueJustice said:

Regardless of gut issues or testosterone issues

Does anyone have any idea on how to combat the incessant systemic inflammation??

Fixing that seems deeper than anything else I can think of right now....it just never goes away....what is that all about??

What symptoms do you notice from the inflammation?

On 10/7/2019 at 2:15 AM, BenGL said:

Hey!

Quite the thread you guys got here. Thought Id share my experience with Accutane, maybe some of you have similar experiences and can offer some advice. I have not read this thread, but I have read the "Post Accutane/Mino Facial Flushing". 

I took Accutane about ten years ago. Normal doses for six months. My acne disappeared and never returned, which was fantastic. I did however get very sensitive facial skin, and although i do think it has improved with time, it is still an issue to this day. I do not have any permanent redness (at least nothing that is bothersome), but I do experience flushing and blushing. In recent years I have also developed a pretty bad facial sweat, but this is mainly an issue in high temperatures (above 23 degrees celcius). I do get botox injections on my forehead and nose every six months and this completely eliminates the sweating issue for the first four months. It is also quite effective in month five and six.  Note: botox is injected in a different skin layer for sweat versus when its used for wrinkles. 

My flushing is not very bad. I get this tingling sensation around my nose every now and then, but it only lasts for a few seconds. I actually do feel like the botox injections help somewhat with the flushing.

I dont get very red in my face when working out. When tanning I might get a little burnt if Im sloppy with the sun lotion, but nothing more than other people, and I have no problems getting a nice tan.  

The main issue is blushing. Before Accutane, I had never blushed in my life. Today, almost everything makes me blush. Or at least it did. I feel like the issue isnt as bad as it was ten years ago, but it is still affecting my daily life. It makes me partake in less social activities than what I would like to. I also dread meetings at work. Although it is originally a physical issue, it has naturally developed into anxiety, affecting me psychologically as well. 

I shouldnt really have any psychological issues though. I love people. I love meeting new people. I love (or at least somewhat enjoy) giving presentations. I love speaking up in meetings. If tomorrow, all my blushing and sweating went away, my anxiety would go with it. No doubt. 

What I have tried over the years:

  • Candela V-Beam Perfecta. 5 treatments over several months. Hard to say if it had any effect, maybe a little. Expensive. 
  • Melanotan 2. Gave me a nice tan, but hard to say if it had any long term effect. Left me with a lot of moles, but luckily most of them faded. Not something I would use again or recommend. 
  • Botox. For facial sweating (nose and forehead). Really quite incredible. Great results, not side-effects. Somewhat painful and expensive.
  • Different creams. I currently use a serum and moisturizer, morning and night. Necessary, but not any drastic effects. 

Last week I got prescribed Propranolol after read several positive reviews. Both from people with performance anxiety and blushing. If I could have 4 hours with a no blushing/ increased heart rate/ sweating guarantee, 2-3 times a week, that would make a tremendous difference in my life. It would allow me to enjoy meetings and be more social. I also feel like a few positive experiences could reduce my anxiety and thereby the need of medication. 

Does anyone here have experience with propranolol or any other remedies that could be beneficial in my situation? :)

Another thing - have anyone with post Accutane blushing tried ETS? I would probably change career before trying ETS, so its not really an option for me, but it would be interesting to hear about. 

i used to get this and what helped me the most was a cream from GUINOT called hydra sensitive face cream, made a big difference though its not cheap.

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13 hours ago, JosephBuchignani said:

For years I had to restrict to a diet of white rice, lowfat shrimp and beef, and plain homemade wheat bread. Otherwise I had terrible cramps and couldn't be productive. Here's what allowed me to expand my diet to approximate a normal person's, with some unremarkable IBS from stuff like spicy food:

Low-dose Naltrexone (LDN)
Nortriptyline
UDCA 1 pill per meal

That's how I escaped the malnutrition trap. Now that I'm no longer hypersensitive, I can try lots of medications without getting wrecked. So I'm sure I'll make further gains as I continue to tinker.

Mainstream doctors were worthless for me. The supposed experts suggested I was crazy, lazy and self-harming. I suggested they were incompetent and stupid. A holistic doctor who quit her mainstream practice in order to deliver a higher standard of care did a broader battery of tests that found one biomarker off the charts, an IBD inflammation marker.

UDCA was the last piece of the puzzle. The first two medications only reduced the severity of my symptoms. Only UDCA allowed me to expand my diet while remaining productive. Its dramatic instant effect indicates that the cause was indeed bile-system damage from Accutane.

Yes, I tried UDCA before, but discontinued when its effects were maybe mixed. Data was noisy. This was a reintroduction, with a different dosage pattern - light and only with food, which is contrary to instructions. Also it was together with Nortriptyline and LDN, which I hadn't done before.

As soon as I noticed I wasn't getting punished for dietary infractions, I ate like a starving man, to nauseating excess in fact, and found my new, gentler, more reasonable limits. I've never cared much about food except to try to eat a reasonably healthy ancestral diet. The mainstream doctors were quacks as wrong about butts as brains.

I don't have the infrastructure for quantitative self-analysis yet, so I just look for big qualitative results like the above. For that reason, I don't want to get into specifics. We're likely all different. However the above three medications are anti-inflammatory. Do your diligence if you think they might help your case. My dosages are low to standard.

Repeating - I'm busy working on a tool generally useful for the chronically ill and don't have time to answer queries specific to my case, which probably aren't generalizable anyway. Maybe I'll write it later.

Remember that just because someone's here doesn't mean Accutane caused his problems. Causation is not zero sum, noisy data kills, and everybody dies of something. Survival is a fitness test and your brain is on trial.

 

Oh yeah, my sig reports on the effects of LDN. It was a big improvement, but I couldn't keep the expanded diet and be productive. Each of the three meds was a big step forward. The first two were almost enough to expand diet and keep productivity, but not quite. UDCA put it way over that threshold.

I went from spending a lot of the day in enforced greyout horizontality to being an unremarkable IBS case, so that's a lot of subjective space to announce multiple tiers of curedness. As I said I'm sure I'll improve further from here; the deadlock is broken.

Ok, where to buy UDCA?

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Ronnie - inflammation in muscles and joints all around the body along with muscle fatigue at various times.

The most noticeable inflammation though would still be in Gut and in the head. Gut is in better shape but disappointed I can’t fully get rid of inflammation after a year of working on it.

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Apologies for derailing this thread, but for anyone that hasn't already done so, it looks like only 28 accutane/isotretinoin sufferers have taken the survey on PropeciaHelp at https://forum.propeciahelp.com/t/post-drug-syndrome-survey-faq-survey-now-live-please-participate/34482

They are looking for a total of 50. Please if you have the time, your help would be greatly appreciated. 

Edited by octopusfrog
update link

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On 10/6/2019 at 10:15 AM, BenGL said:

Hey!

Quite the thread you guys got here. Thought Id share my experience with Accutane, maybe some of you have similar experiences and can offer some advice. I have not read this thread, but I have read the "Post Accutane/Mino Facial Flushing". 

I took Accutane about ten years ago. Normal doses for six months. My acne disappeared and never returned, which was fantastic. I did however get very sensitive facial skin, and although i do think it has improved with time, it is still an issue to this day. I do not have any permanent redness (at least nothing that is bothersome), but I do experience flushing and blushing. In recent years I have also developed a pretty bad facial sweat, but this is mainly an issue in high temperatures (above 23 degrees celcius). I do get botox injections on my forehead and nose every six months and this completely eliminates the sweating issue for the first four months. It is also quite effective in month five and six.  Note: botox is injected in a different skin layer for sweat versus when its used for wrinkles. 

My flushing is not very bad. I get this tingling sensation around my nose every now and then, but it only lasts for a few seconds. I actually do feel like the botox injections help somewhat with the flushing.

I dont get very red in my face when working out. When tanning I might get a little burnt if Im sloppy with the sun lotion, but nothing more than other people, and I have no problems getting a nice tan.  

The main issue is blushing. Before Accutane, I had never blushed in my life. Today, almost everything makes me blush. Or at least it did. I feel like the issue isnt as bad as it was ten years ago, but it is still affecting my daily life. It makes me partake in less social activities than what I would like to. I also dread meetings at work. Although it is originally a physical issue, it has naturally developed into anxiety, affecting me psychologically as well. 

I shouldnt really have any psychological issues though. I love people. I love meeting new people. I love (or at least somewhat enjoy) giving presentations. I love speaking up in meetings. If tomorrow, all my blushing and sweating went away, my anxiety would go with it. No doubt. 

What I have tried over the years:

  • Candela V-Beam Perfecta. 5 treatments over several months. Hard to say if it had any effect, maybe a little. Expensive. 
  • Melanotan 2. Gave me a nice tan, but hard to say if it had any long term effect. Left me with a lot of moles, but luckily most of them faded. Not something I would use again or recommend. 
  • Botox. For facial sweating (nose and forehead). Really quite incredible. Great results, not side-effects. Somewhat painful and expensive.
  • Different creams. I currently use a serum and moisturizer, morning and night. Necessary, but not any drastic effects. 

Last week I got prescribed Propranolol after read several positive reviews. Both from people with performance anxiety and blushing. If I could have 4 hours with a no blushing/ increased heart rate/ sweating guarantee, 2-3 times a week, that would make a tremendous difference in my life. It would allow me to enjoy meetings and be more social. I also feel like a few positive experiences could reduce my anxiety and thereby the need of medication. 

Does anyone here have experience with propranolol or any other remedies that could be beneficial in my situation? :)

Another thing - have anyone with post Accutane blushing tried ETS? I would probably change career before trying ETS, so its not really an option for me, but it would be interesting to hear about. 

I got nothing on your blushing, but I wonder if announcing it to your group/person before/as would it make it less. Then you don't have to wait for the blush to come on and the anxiety to come to. I am a teacher and we are always announcing to each other our ADHD, hearing issues, anxiety, etc to each other pretty early in conversation. (to group/social person).."Hey, when I get worked up/excited/nervous/talk fast, my skin blushes/reddens/sweats all on it's own..I am fine, just tossing it out here..and go on with the conversation. Maybe then your brain will get the connection that it matters not. You will still flush, but maybe it might not socially effect you so much. I dunno.

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21 hours ago, Ronnie99 said:

i used to get this and what helped me the most was a cream from GUINOT called hydra sensitive face cream, made a big difference though its not cheap.

 

Thanks for the tip, ill make sure to check it out.

 

7 hours ago, Anna Nim said:

I got nothing on your blushing, but I wonder if announcing it to your group/person before/as would it make it less. Then you don't have to wait for the blush to come on and the anxiety to come to. I am a teacher and we are always announcing to each other our ADHD, hearing issues, anxiety, etc to each other pretty early in conversation. (to group/social person).."Hey, when I get worked up/excited/nervous/talk fast, my skin blushes/reddens/sweats all on it's own..I am fine, just tossing it out here..and go on with the conversation. Maybe then your brain will get the connection that it matters not. You will still flush, but maybe it might not socially effect you so much. I dunno.

Its mostly a problem in important meetings etc. though. And thats not the place to open up with such information lol. But you are right. Explaining it to people would be very helpful. 

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What’s the source of the excess sweating though??

Is the body hotter now after Tane?

is the heart beating faster, is blood flow impeded?

Still many questions around this side effect. I sweat profusely 20 years later but don’t exactly know why......

 

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12 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

What’s the source of the excess sweating though??

Is the body hotter now after Tane?

is the heart beating faster, is blood flow impeded?

Still many questions around this side effect. I sweat profusely 20 years later but don’t exactly know why......

 

 

Has it gotten worse for you over the years? I think my facial sweating issue was first noticed 3-4 years after Tane. Might have gotten a little bit progressively worse after that, but I am not sure.

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12 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

What’s the source of the excess sweating though??

Is the body hotter now after Tane?

is the heart beating faster, is blood flow impeded?

Still many questions around this side effect. I sweat profusely 20 years later but don’t exactly know why......

 

I feel like vitamin A is messed up in me. Face is dry but scalp more sweaty, legs more sweaty.  Do you find same thing?

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On 10/8/2019 at 7:47 AM, TrueJustice said:

Ronnie - inflammation in muscles and joints all around the body along with muscle fatigue at various times.

The most noticeable inflammation though would still be in Gut and in the head. Gut is in better shape but disappointed I can’t fully get rid of inflammation after a year of working on it.


im not sure if you have heard of Dr Mark Gordon, which he says Inflammation is the source of many issues, he says there are biomarkers to test to determine if there is inflammation. Take a look at the following interview he done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JWF_6YAbVU&t=1983s

 

 

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On 9/17/2019 at 9:31 PM, TrueJustice said:

I’ve tested very favourably to both Vit D/K - I take this in a pump spray. It definitely helps libido for anyone interested.

I took in Vit E supplement today and I test really well also, all over the body actually practitioner said - especially with muscles!!

I’m thinking of buying Vit A and taking it in to test next.

Unfortunately systemic dryness still remains no matter what I do......

I was doing some research these days and decided to include BEEF LIVER in my diet, once or twice a week (no more than that to avoid health issues - read here and here for more info). I think it would be worth looking into this as a way of increasing your vit-A intake. Not many foods are worthy of the title "superfood." However, liver is one of them. It's a nutritional powerhouse. It's rich in protein, low in calories and packed with essential vitamins and minerals.

Here are the nutrients found in a 3.5-ounce (100-gram) serving of beef liver:

Vitamin B12: 3,460% of the RDI. Vitamin B12 helps the formation of red blood cells and DNA. It is also involved in healthy brain function.

Vitamin A: 860–1,100% of the RDI. Vitamin A is important for normal vision, immune function and reproduction. It also helps organs like the heart and kidneys function properly.

Riboflavin (B2): 210–260% of the RDI. Riboflavin is important for cellular development and function. It also helps turn food into energy.

Folate (B9): 65% of the RDI. Folate is an essential nutrient that plays a role in cell growth and the formation of DNA.

Iron: 80% of the RDI, or 35% for women of menstruating age. Iron is another essential nutrient that helps carry oxygen around the body. The iron in liver is heme iron, the kind most easily absorbed by the body.

Copper: 1,620% of the RDI. Copper acts like a key to activate a number of enzymes, which then help regulate energy production, iron metabolism and brain function. (to also avoid health issues increase zinc consumption - using ZMA and foods with it will do the trick)

Choline: Liver provides all of the Adequate Intake (AI) for women and nearly all of it for men (AI is used because there is insufficient evidence to set an RDI). Choline is important for brain development and liver function.

And here a few signs of vitamin A deficiency.

Edited by Perene

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3 hours ago, Perene said:

I was doing some research these days and decided to include BEEF LIVER in my diet, once or twice a week (no more than that to avoid health issues - read here and here for more info). I think it would be worth looking into this as a way of increasing your vit-A intake. Not many foods are worthy of the title "superfood." However, liver is one of them. It's a nutritional powerhouse. It's rich in protein, low in calories and packed with essential vitamins and minerals.

Here are the nutrients found in a 3.5-ounce (100-gram) serving of beef liver:

Vitamin B12: 3,460% of the RDI. Vitamin B12 helps the formation of red blood cells and DNA. It is also involved in healthy brain function.

Vitamin A: 860–1,100% of the RDI. Vitamin A is important for normal vision, immune function and reproduction. It also helps organs like the heart and kidneys function properly.

Riboflavin (B2): 210–260% of the RDI. Riboflavin is important for cellular development and function. It also helps turn food into energy.

Folate (B9): 65% of the RDI. Folate is an essential nutrient that plays a role in cell growth and the formation of DNA.

Iron: 80% of the RDI, or 35% for women of menstruating age. Iron is another essential nutrient that helps carry oxygen around the body. The iron in liver is heme iron, the kind most easily absorbed by the body.

Copper: 1,620% of the RDI. Copper acts like a key to activate a number of enzymes, which then help regulate energy production, iron metabolism and brain function. (to also avoid health issues increase zinc consumption - using ZMA and foods with it will do the trick)

Choline: Liver provides all of the Adequate Intake (AI) for women and nearly all of it for men (AI is used because there is insufficient evidence to set an RDI). Choline is important for brain development and liver function.

And here a few signs of vitamin A deficiency.

You thinking your deficient in vitamin A?  I think in some places I am but other parts of my body I'm not, like face not deficient but other places on my body, possibly, like my scalp, as it's not dry like my face.

Will be interesting to see how this diet goes for you. Keep us updated please.

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18 hours ago, Calcified said:

You thinking your deficient in vitamin A?  I think in some places I am but other parts of my body I'm not, like face not deficient but other places on my body, possibly, like my scalp, as it's not dry like my face.

Will be interesting to see how this diet goes for you. Keep us updated please.

I never tested for vitamin A, and don't think this is an issue for me. Same for vitamin B-6, which I wasn't able to do it since my private health care plan doesn't cover this specific test (B vitamins aren't usually covered, only B-12). I found one interesting explanation about night blindness precipitated by isotretinoin in the setting of hypovitaminosis A:

https://www.academia.edu/33737210/Night_blindness_precipitated_by_isotretinoin_in_the_setting_of_hypovitaminosis_A

"In conclusion, this case highlights the importance of monitoring vitamin A status in patients with intercurrent fat malabsorption during treatment with isotretinoin. As the synthetic retinoids may interfere with vitamin A processing in the eye, these patients may be at high risk of developing side effects such as night blindness. In this regard, we have shown it is safe to combine large oral doses of vitamin A with low dose isotretinoin in patients with CF; however, it is prudent to manage these patients in conjunction with a gastroenterologist. Isotretinoin was able to be safely used in the context of cirrhosis of the liver with no deterioration in liver function."

Edited by Perene

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So I test really well for taking Vit D/K

I decided to take in Vit E, I test really well and in fact he said take a few bottles of this.

I finally got my hands on Vit A again, the same company as the E - they’ve started making it again 

I didn’t test so favourably, body mostly rejecting it, not in a toxic way but just got issues with it. Practitioner said we’re going to have to do some work around this.

This is good info for me, no need to do any fat soluble blood tests that will only be inconclusive.

 

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I wonder about TMG and MSM. TMG is supposed to bring down homocysteine levels, depression and heart, energy levels. MSM (especially larger amount in powder form) is supposed to be good for joints and inflamation (it helped my MIL with her RA). So, I am trying it for my son. He is on week 3 1/2 off of this shit and is having joint pain and some temperature regulation issues. I haven't read all that is here-too damn scary. Although someone mentioned actually ensuring he has enough K so that the body doesn't hold onto the bad K, which is a thought. 

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There's a new procedure called Stellate Ganglion Block (injection). Apparently it works by numbing the sympathetic nervous system or the autonomic nervous system, which I believe is in a constant "fight or flight" mode for some individuals post Accutane. 
 

Edited by macleod

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An update: I just received my salivary cortisol results, they were done September 30, before I started with all these changes mentioned in my previous posts, to overcome my sexual dysfunction, low testosterone, high prolactin...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=11_hdfy1_A0lcr1TPd_AGSznZiafhgUB1

The results are:

For the morning (collected at 8 am): 0.319 MCG/DL
For the afternoon (collected at 4 pm): 0.068 MCG/DL
For the morning (collected at 8 pm): 0.054 MCG/DL

Lab ranges for the morning are between 6.7 and 22.6 mcg/dL, and the paper says that after morning the levels are usually lower than 10 mcg/dL.

This test is different from all others since it demands a little more effort in terms of properly collecting and storing the samples. So I don't trust a first result as a definitive one to evaluate my health. But let's assume this is accurate. What do these mean?

And for my new diet plan I am also adding MACA POWDER, which is said to improve libido, every morning. Also, once I replace my stock of ZMA a few months from now I'll buy from a new brand  with a different formula, this time not with 7 mg of zinc, instead 29.59, and 350 instead of 256 mg of magnesium. It also has vitamin B-6 so I don't need to take the latter as P5P (25 mg) in the morning. The pill has 40 mg of B-6 as pyridoxine hydrochloride.

About prolactin, one thing I didn't know is that we need to abstain from sex/fapping prior (preferably a couple of days) to doing this test, otherwise the results will be of course higher.

Edit: I looked the YouTube video (from the beginning of my post) a little bit and it appears that my low cortisol levels are explained by  of course this side effect and my lifestyle. That’s what I thought, I don’t think I have some unknown disease and this obviously will need to be retested after months of improvement. Even vitamin deficiencies were mentioned as a reason for low cortisol. So that’s it, after my changes being in place for a while I’ll check these levels again.

Edited by Perene

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Has anyone tested there Corticotropin Release Hormone/Factor ( CRH CRF) levels, a overexpression of this hormone can have a downstream of bad effects and just seeing if a few of you have tested for it ?

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