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22 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Yeah I’m reconsidering my options with Vit A too

I have recently pointed out though that when having Kinesiology, Vit A did stress my body out when tested with the vile

Having done some work over last few weeks I am now responding better to it - both A and Beta Carotene aren’t stressing me out - this could only be the result of Tane messing things up!!

I’m now curious on how I’d respond supplementing BC but I’m trying to avoid self diagnosing which up till recently has been out of control for me, definitely something I’m trying to avoid. I’d run it by practitioner and get their thoughts firstly

Currently I’m responding well to both B12 & ALA which I’ll continue.

I’m also curious about this Forskolin product but will see what others have to say before I look into it more. This cAMP is a new area of inquiry that’s for sure!!

I'm going to get some BC supplements and try them for a couple of months to see what happens. When I read about Vitamin A deficiency all of my skin symptoms match exactly. 

Slow wound healing, improper keratinisation and skin scaling, bumps on the backs of arms, dry skin (severe). 

I don't have any vision issues and although my vision isn't the best at night, I wouldn't classify it as night blindness, although it has got worse in the past few years. 

I just don't have normal skin anymore, I wouldn't even care about the scarring and redness if it just acted like normal skin and it wasn't wafer thin, painful and dry and affecting every aspect of my day. The only time im comfortable in my skin is at night, lathered in cream, looking like absolute crap when nobody can see me. It wasn't like this on accutane or for years after so i'm inclined to think avoiding vitamin A has just made it worse as the years have rolled on. 

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Yep me too!!

any wound healing is just horrendous 

got a mosquito bite 3 months ago that I scratched a bit.....the red is still there, I get out of the shower and see it each morning - bloody crazy!!

The dryness - that’s a whole other story....

No moisture at all in face or hair

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30 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Yep me too!!

any wound healing is just horrendous 

got a mosquito bite 3 months ago that I scratched a bit.....the red is still there, I get out of the shower and see it each morning - bloody crazy!!

The dryness - that’s a whole other story....

No moisture at all in face or hair

Exact same here mate. My whole face is basically like your mosquito bite now though. 80% of it won't heal basically, it's as if the top layer of skin just won't form. 

The more and more i read, the more it does sound like my body isn't getting enough Vitamin A to complete this process and that all these years I shouldn't have avoided it.

For about a year after accutane I was taking a strong multivitamin and whilst my skin was a little dry, I had periods of it being oily and it wasn't like it is now at all, nowhere close, everything seemed to heal quicker back then rather than slower, I think I had a really high skin cell turnover rate. Now it just seems as though it doesn't turnover at all. Every time I get a spot or whitehead now, the red mark doesn't heal over and just stays, so every time I get one it's devastating to me. It shouldn't be like this at all. Hopefully supplementing BC for 2 weeks shows some difference and I can pinpoint that being the issue. I'll keep you posted. 

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An update on the forskolin.  It looks like I'm going to have to stop.  I have a tendency to develop palpitations from stimulants (after I took Tane) which is why I don't drink coffee.  It seems forskolin was not an exception.  I go full on arrhythmia from DHEA, bitter orange, etc.  

Did you work for testosterone?  Yes.  I could definitely feel it in terms of libido, muscle tone and great pumps at the gym.  I got tested today and I'll post results in a couple of days.  Keep in mind I just got off TRT and was in crash mode full on.  This means my levels were rock bottom.  

Stay tuned..

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This is an idea of some of what ive been talking about. I've been looking at yeast colonization which any yeast colonization should be transient, whats not could possibly considered a undiagnosed disease. 
Some of these pathogens might use coagulation factors as a means.

But to switch gears real quick, here's the same principle thought, except with bacteria.
 

Wednesday, October 10, 2018

NIH study finds probiotic Bacillus eliminates Staphylococcus bacteria

Additional studies of common supplement planned.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-probiotic-bacillus-eliminates-staphylococcus-bacteria

"One strategy to prevent Staph infections is to eliminate S. aureus colonization. However, some decolonization strategies are controversial because they require considerable amounts of topical antibiotics and have limited success, partly because they target only the nose and bacteria quickly recolonized from the gut."

 

by AL Cogen - ‎2008 - ‎Cited by 531 - ‎Related articles
Most scholarly reviews of skin microbiota concentrate on understanding the ..... Staphylococcus aureusalso secretes an arsenal of toxins that damage host cells. .... The cutaneous effects of isotretinoin and other vitamin A derivatives are ...
 

The effects of systemic isotretinoin and antibiotic therapy on the microbial floras in patients with acne vulgaris.

 

Difference in microbial flora throughout the treatment period was detected at least among one of all culture samples of 15 (75%) and 5 (33%) patients in isotretinoin and antibiotic groups. There was statistically significant difference between two groups in means of alteration of the microbial flora (P = 0.013). The difference was definitely observed among nasal cultures (65%) in isotretinoin group and fecal cultures (20%) in the other. Staphylococcus aureus colonization was prominent in the microbial floras of nose and oropharynx

I am more so looking at this possibility with yeast, but being aware of this as well.

 

Edited by guitarman01

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Does anyone know what ACCUiTy is up to these days??

Too many people have just disappeared off forum - be nice to get an update one way or another on how they are going these days!

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im just going to keep on rolling here. There is still a lot to parse.

Here is a example of genetics and the microbiome. One predicts the other.
 

Secretor Genotype (FUT2 gene) Is Strongly Associated with the Composition of Bifidobacteria in the Human Intestine

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3098274/

"Growing evidence shows that the composition and diversity of the microbiota in the human intestine can have a surprisingly strong impact on the well-being and health of the host."

Can Genetics Explain an Unhealthy Gut?
Recent research into genetics has revealed that our genetic makeup influences our gut health as much as diet and lifestyle.

Roughly 20% of people carry a variation of the FUT2 gene that does not allow the body to reveal its blood type in secretions and in the lining of the gut. (5) This 20%, called non-secretors, is also unable to house a robust community of bifidobacteria.
 

The FUT2 gene determines if we are vulnerable to:

  • Autoimmune disorders like Crohn’s disease (mostly affecting the large intestine), celiac disease (affecting the small intestine), and type 1 diabetes (6)(7)(8)
  • Inflammatory bowel disease
  • Urinary tract infections (9)
  • Candidiasis, or Candida overgrowth (10)(11)
  • B12 deficiency and some forms of anemia (12)

[PMID 20570966OA-icon.png] Fucosyltransferase 2 (FUT2) non-secretor status is associated with Crohn's disease.
18.6% Frequency

Yeast-devouring gut bacterium may provide newCrohn's treatments. ... A new study now suggests this bacterium may provide the basis for new treatments for yeast infections and autoimmune diseases, such as Crohn's disease.Jan 8, 2015

  Edited by guitarman01

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Hi all,

how is everyone doing? I am still reading on a regular basis but have not posted for a while. I would be interested in a correlation, that I find very strange, can not explain myself, and what I experience ever since I have taken Accutane many years back.

Whenever I apply a moisturizer, skin oil or suncream to my skin I react with migraine like headaches. The level of pain depends on the type of cream. Suncream seems to be the worst one. My skin is super dry and sensitive to sun post Accutane but it is impossible for me to put moisturizer or sun protection on. I still do it from time to time when i can not avoid sun exposure e.g. family vacation in the mountains but I regret it every time. I never had this before accutane. I tried all kinds of creams, moisturizers and so on. Some hit me harder than others but bottom line is, that I have problems with all of them. The only solution for me is not to apply them. 

I would be interested if someone of you made the same experiences or even found a solution to it.

Thanks
Roland   

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On 10/20/2018 at 8:43 PM, guitarman01 said:

Secretor Genotype (FUT2 gene) Is Strongly Associated with the Composition of Bifidobacteria in the Human Intestine

^This right here, could come from your mother's genetics as well, which could determine the amount of bifido colonization.
17 hours ago, Roland1968 said:

Whenever I apply a moisturizer, skin oil or suncream to my skin I react with migraine like headaches.

to me the sensitive skin is a byproduct of something else going on. sensitive skin, sensitive nerves, sensitive eyes, sensitive blood vessels. 

sensitive hair.

Postnatal colonization with human "infant-type" Bifidobacterium species alters behavior of adult gnotobiotic mice
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0196510

im not diving into this right now, but you see on the most basic level there is a relationship.

Immunomodulation by Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 in the Murine Lamina Propria Requires Retinoic Acid-Dependent and Independent Mechanisms

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3660574/

New study shows health benefits of probiotic could extend to the entire body

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-08/msl-nss082208.php

  

Cork, Ireland - August 25, 2008 - Data from a recent study demonstrate the anti-inflammatory and pathogen protection benefits of Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 a probiotic bacterial strain of human origin.

 

by P Konieczna - ‎2012 - ‎Cited by 164 - ‎Related articles
Nov 3, 2011 - Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 administration induces Foxp3 T regulatory cells in human peripheral blood: potential role for myeloid and ...

Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 modulates host inflammatory processes beyond the gut

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3744517/

  Edited by guitarman01
Additionally, data show increased numbers of T-regulatory (Treg) cells, or cells that suppress inflammatory disease in a wide range of autoimmune diseases. Administration of Bifidobacterium infantis 35624 resulted in the induction of these Treg cells, whi

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Recently I’ve been listening to experts say it’s all well and good to try and improve gut flora etc but most people need to fix “Leaky Gut” issues first!!

I totally agree and in fact I’m of the opinion that most probiotics are a waste of time, you’ll get all the right bacteria from eating yoghurt and fermented foods etc 

Having said that, using probiotics straight after using antibiotics isn’t a bad idea to hit the gut hard but again, the big question is how to fix Leaky Gut?? - that’s critical before we start anything else IMO

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Sebum lubricates and protects the skin and meibum does the same for eyes. Both are androgen dependent while isotretinoin is a 5-AR inhibitor drug. That's the reason.
 

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4 hours ago, Pido said:

Sebum lubricates and protects the skin and meibum does the same for eyes. Both are androgen dependent while isotretinoin is a 5-AR inhibitor drug. That's the reason.
 


What are you doing to combat this??

Pls list some products that counteract an inhibitor drug

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I think the actual reasons could go well beyond a 5ar inhibitor effect.
 

Microbial endocrinology: the interplay between the microbiota and the endocrine system 

https://academic.oup.com/femsre/article/39/4/509/2467625
"hormonal signaling have not yet been deciphered, specific changes in hormone levels correlate with the presence of the gut microbiota. The microbiota produces and secretes hormones, responds to host hormones and regulates expression levels of host hormones. "

"We categorize these interactions by the different functions of the hormones, including those affecting behavior, sexual attraction, appetite and metabolism, gender and immunity. Future research in this area will reveal additional connections, and elucidate the pathways and consequences of bacterial interactions with the host endocrine system."
 

Microbial Endocrinology in the Microbiome-Gut-Brain Axis: How Bacterial Production and Utilization of Neurochemicals Influence Behavior


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828163/

The ability of bacterial pathogens to influence behavior has been recognized for decades, most notably bacteria that directly invade the nervous system.
However,

increasing evidence is mounting that microorganisms may directly interact with elements of the host's neurophysiological system in a noninvasive manner that ultimately results in modification of host behavior. 



  Edited by guitarman01

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Hey guys, I haven't logged in here in a while, but I'm back.

My major symptoms back when I first posted were depression, fatigue, coated tongue, dry eyes (and floaters in vision), ed and low libido.

Sad to say I still have most (all?) of these symptoms. I have tried just about every supplement, probiotic, holistic cleanse, antidepressant, you fuckin name it, i went down a long road of trying to fix myself... and here i still am.

Here's the deal: it's been 13 years since I took accutane and can trace all of this back to right when i stopped taking it.  I took a (imo) high dose for 5 months. 20mg scaled up to 60mg by the end.

Time seems to be healing me a bit, but i still use eyedrops for dry eye everyday, im still tired, my tongue is still coated and i have to scrape it almost every day.

The worst of this is the ed and low libido. This is the only thing that hasnt really been improving at all and its not an understatement to say it is ruining my life.

Now i've had more time and experience with this, it really seems that accutane does something to the pituitary gland.  This is just a gut feeling i have, but the low libido and ed seem to really correspond to the pituitary. as well as fatigue, depression, etc.

See this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25721216/

i have had bloodwork done in the past, remember my test levels being low-ish but not low enough not to be "normal". ive also had an MRI done, and once again they didnt find anything abnormal...

that was a couple years ago, i might try to get a second opinion on the MRI focusing on the pituitary and plan to get more bloodwork to look at test levels AND prolactin (which can be a huge factor in these types of problems).

Long story short, i think this stuff fucks with the endocrine system, specifically the pituitary gland. that is my theory that i cant yet substantiate, but i plan on looking more into pituitary related hormone levels.

Also... Do we have a better place to discuss this stuff yet? A forum or something? Anything is better than this long ass thread.

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You could be right!!

My kinesiologist picked up a few weeks ago that my “melatonin” is out of whack.

What regulates melatonin? Pineal gland!!

prob explains my light sensitivity and disturbed sleep patterns amongst other things.

He did some weird head adjustments that felt good but unfortunately I’m no better to be truthful with regard to these issues 

I see him again in 2 weeks. The B12 on the other hand has been very helpful and I’m grateful for him putting me on it.

Edited by TrueJustice

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On 10/24/2018 at 4:33 PM, Pido said:

Sebum lubricates and protects the skin and meibum does the same for eyes. Both are androgen dependent while isotretinoin is a 5-AR inhibitor drug. That's the reason.
 

It seems so simple and something people discussed back at the beginning of this thread - There's got to be a way to re-activate or stimulate 5-AR. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14997014

My eyes are fine, only get slightly dry when it's really cold in winter, but the same can go for normal people too. it's just my skin that is devoid of moisture. Seems weird that it would be one without the other if it's solely due to 5-AR inhibition. Wouldn't both be affected if the mechanism was down to 5-AR? 

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On 10/24/2018 at 5:33 PM, Pido said:

Sebum lubricates and protects the skin and meibum does the same for eyes. Both are androgen dependent while isotretinoin is a 5-AR inhibitor drug. That's the reason.
 



But why is the effect permanent? Even years after isotretinoin eyes and skin remain dry.
 

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I mean there is no definitive correlation to anything, but I will say that Accutane is Pandora's box. The only people that are tolerant to these high amounts of retinoids are people of Scandinavian descent. The parent company is Swiss and they probably used Scandinavians throughout their clinical trials. (This is a good arguing point for any lawyer.)

Isotretinoin is capable of genetic transcription, and if high amounts of Vitamin A consumption is not in your lineage, then you are susceptible to abnormal changes, whatever they may be (i.e. cancer, vision, chrons, etc.)

I am western European Mediterranean based. I can tolerate large amounts of alcohol consumption. You give the same amount of alcohol to an Inuit, Native American, or Chinese, and you are gonna have problems. Point blank.

There's no direct link. It's just a fucked up drug that randomly affects those genetically susceptible. And Roche made their $$$, and that's all that matters.

Edited by macleod

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I agree and understand what you’re saying to a point though.

What if you experimented and gave Accutane to:

Vegan
Yogi
Buddhist monk
Healer

Who would overcome the side effects quicker?

Point being that yes it’s fucked many of us up but doesn’t mean there can be no healing - people do overcome cancer!!

You could argue Tane has fucked up mostly westerners, why? Prob partly due to our diet I’d imagine.

So yeah, whilst I agree it’s fucked many of us up, I can’t say for sure we can’t recover to some degree.

PS - Can someone shed some light with a follow up to the 5ar theory - we get the point but what are the recovery options after this??

If you think there is none - just say so pls - no BS
 

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So i've been looking at short and medium chain fatty acids.
short chain mainly come from intestinal bacteria and medium chain are found in pretty much every mammalian based milk. 
Those lacking adequate bifido bacteria (that produce scfa's) as infants show a much higher fecal ph.
Same with candida colonization, it raises stomach ph.
same with other pathogens they prefer a higher intestinal ph. 

keywords relating to scfa
important in neurodevelopment, immune modulation, anti inflammatory, intestinal permeability
endotoxins, metabolic disease, and apparently much more.
 

Chapter Three - The Role of Short-Chain Fatty Acids in Health and Disease

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128001004000039?via%3Dihub

There is now an abundance of evidence to show that short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs) play an important role in the maintenance of health and the development of disease.

 SCFAs are a subset of fatty acids that are produced by the gut microbiota 

Given the vast effects of SCFAs, and that their levels are regulated by diet, they provide a new basis to explain the increased prevalence of inflammatory disease in Westernized countries

Short- and medium-chain fatty acids in energy metabolism: the cellular perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4878196/

increasing attention is given to SCFAs with respect to their putative role in the pathogenesis of allergies, as well as autoimmune, metabolic, and neurological diseases 
 

Contrasting metabolic effects of medium- versus long-chain fatty acids in skeletal muscle

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3826680/
now when they talk about muscle you can also include the vascular system as well, including the heart. apparently some mct's are used as some types of treatments for 
cardiomyopathy and have reversed hypertrophy in mice. 

How does any of this relate to dry skin?
a new term for myself but I have found this to be true long before Accutane,

Thermoregulation.

or body heat. this could be isolated to your hands( peripheral ) head or entire body. This would also include blood perfusion. 
This and the supply of nutrients and oxygen will probably make your skin appear healthier than anything else.
 




  Edited by guitarman01

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On 10/25/2018 at 12:21 AM, throwmeinthetrash said:


Also... Do we have a better place to discuss this stuff yet? A forum or something? Anything is better than this long ass thread.


Post-Accutane discussion forums:

Active discussion about post-drug symptoms from anti-androgenic substances:  https://forum.propeciahelp.com/

This one is dedicated to post-Accutane sexual dysfunction, but isn't very active lately:  https://pasforum.info/

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Its been 25 years since treatment with isotretinoin and now have a lot of degeneration/calcification/folliculitis/pain. Normal or coincidence? Altered vitamin A metabolism?

Edited by Calcified

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