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eyes get red easily. struggle to gain weight. joint cracking on occasions, but not frequent.. it's more body aches which seem to happen when i eat something different.. basically food relatted im sure. lips aren't dry enough to need vaseline.. they aren't cracking. the dry skin is all over my body... not just my face and scalp. hope this helps.. ohy.. i did go 100% raw for 2 years, and have been high raw since. i feel this has controled roscea syptoms, but not much else in terms of accutane sides. side effects did start as i was on it. i was on/off for maybe 2 years.. but during this time i had time off. i was always only on 20mg and apart from my very first course when i started, i only had it once every other day, and towards the end every other third day, as i found this was enough to keep acne away.

Edited by jmsil
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Indigo - Defo let us know how you get on with the herbs. i got them 10 days after ordering (the last time) and unfortunately £25 customs fee.

Chico - Another question - sorry...... Where did you buy your Eniva Vibe Cardiac And Life? The official website in the USA only seems to ship to the USA - very very annoying! If you could let me know I'd really really appreciate it.. i want to order some asap ;) If it works for at least 2 people with accutane side effects then it has to be worth a go....

Everyone needs to chill out on buying stuff :D and tell me what their specific side effects before i give any advice. I don't want to see you guys waste any money.

Hey man.

Mine consist of everything on the first post of this board

Any advice?

P.s Chinese bitters are very bitter!

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Oli girl:

Yes, L-arginine is really good for the joints. I started using it around 2 months ago. I was told it can help the liver to perform all its functions and help detox. I started using 1.5 gr (3 caps a day). It turned that it was way too much for my system to handle, my heart was racing really bad, and I felt these weird palpitations on my fingers. I have read that athletes and people in general can use up to 3.0 gr, but I believe that our livers are damaged and unable to process foods and drugs well. I reduced the dose to 500 mg (one cap), it really helped my knees, I had bad pains at night on both knees, even without walking that much or doing exercise. The pain disappeared completely. Arginine certainly won't solve long term damage from accutane but it really helped my joints. I recommend you to start taking it gradually, and see how your body responds.

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I started taking fish oil and biotin a few days ago. My face is finally producing some sebum, not a lot, but a big difference compared to before. If sebum serves no purpose then why is my skin softer and skin tone more even now?

Edited by sverd
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I feel retarded -- cognitively impaired --the past 7 days, after I woke up very sick after a night out of (foolishly) drinking alcohol while on a low dose of accutane the past 6 weeks. I've stopped taking the accutane. Going to my dermatologist in a few days.

edit: there's vitamin A in beer! fuuuuuuuuuuuckkk

Edited by TalkingMonkey
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Indigo - It was my plan to do the liver herbs ffrom that site in preperation for the liver flush. but based on my own experience and those confirmed here, i think such a large dose of olive oil will do more harm then good, so i've decided not to do that now,., and just stick with the herbs, and take all 4 liver tinctures, including chinese bitters, continually for as long as possible.

Hey man. I got mine through the post very quick and for some reason I didn't have to pay any import fee, which was good! My God though, the tinctures taste awful.

Any signs that they're working for you as of yet?

On a side note, a while back, I bought a book called 'Liver detox plan', which is by Xandria Williams. I had a quick glance through a chapter last night called 'What goes wrong' - which talks about what goes wrong when the liver isn't doing a good job. It matches me on a lot of levels (Eye problems, digestive system problems, bone problems, anxiety, brain fog, low energy), so that confirms what we know anyway - Despite what blood tests show about the liver, they do not prove what's going on inside, and our livers need all the help they can get. The book (which I will read thoroughly soon) also mentioned about bile production.

Hope you're well.

P.S, Having read many books, one which I've read is 'You can heal your life' by Louise Hay. Chinese medicine would agree that negative feelings and thoughts create problems in the body, so it is important to take a different approach to this. Although I don't believe purely with positive thinking we can repair the damage, I do believe it is an important factor in healing and drawing positive results towards us. If the law of attraction is to be believed (and we all know there is more to life than what we can see) then we might even be in this situation because we were thinking negatively (I.e. hating ourselves when we had acne).

All the best amigo.

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Hi Indigo - Nothing much has cahnged from my last updates. My tongue and mouth is more watery, lips are lovely and supple and moist, eyes are more moist and skin is more moist and less dry.What I've noticed is my knees look nice and normal... before they were quite a dry skin area. So basically to sum up, the herbs seem to of hydrated my body, which is very welcome. I wish I could report something more groundbreaking, but hopefully this will come in time. What about you, and how loong have you been taking them? Todays been exactly 4 weeks for me. last day today of the bitters to give a weeks rest, but tomorrow restart the gccg after having a week off. i emailed the lady of sensible health and she has you don't need to give any break at all for the coptis and curcuma so i'll continuall yt ake this.basically what ive been doing is chinese bitters when i wake (1tsp), gcg before lunch (1tbsp) and curcuma and coptis together before bed (1tbsp each). Oh, I just receivved any other pack of the tinctures today... noo import fees this time :) . started eniva vibe yesturday and conued today. very low dose. now im taking only 4 liver tinctures from sensible health and eniva vibe, nothing else. going by what chico said, chiese bitters for bile flow, and the eniva for removing the accutane from the vitamin a cell receptors. coptis also stimulates bile flow, hopefuly this and the other 2 tinctures will really get the liver and bile working!

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Hi Indigo - Nothing much has cahnged from my last updates. My tongue and mouth is more watery, lips are lovely and supple and moist, eyes are more moist and skin is more moist and less dry.What I've noticed is my knees look nice and normal... before they were quite a dry skin area. So basically to sum up, the herbs seem to of hydrated my body, which is very welcome. I wish I could report something more groundbreaking, but hopefully this will come in time. What about you, and how loong have you been taking them? Todays been exactly 4 weeks for me. last day today of the bitters to give a weeks rest, but tomorrow restart the gccg after having a week off. i emailed the lady of sensible health and she has you don't need to give any break at all for the coptis and curcuma so i'll continuall yt ake this.basically what ive been doing is chinese bitters when i wake (1tsp), gcg before lunch (1tbsp) and curcuma and coptis together before bed (1tbsp each). Oh, I just receivved any other pack of the tinctures today... noo import fees this time :) . started eniva vibe yesturday and conued today. very low dose. now im taking only 4 liver tinctures from sensible health and eniva vibe, nothing else. going by what chico said, chiese bitters for bile flow, and the eniva for removing the accutane from the vitamin a cell receptors. coptis also stimulates bile flow, hopefuly this and the other 2 tinctures will really get the liver and bile working!

Sweet man :)

Sounds good. Let's hope we're on the right track now. Where did you get the enviva vibe from? I may wait and see how it goes for you before investing in yet another product though :P

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Chico - I have a question about how exactly the Eniva Vibe should work? I know you explained in one of your early posts that because it is a liquid form of fat soluable vitamin a, that it can be easily digested and used in the cels to replace the retonioc acid. But what is the actual difference of the vitamin a in eniva vibe, and the vitamin a in, for example, carrot juice? (as carrots are really high in vitamin a)i've got a juicer and could juice carrots so in theory i could consume the equivilent amount of vitamin a from the carrot juice as in the eniva vibe (if i calculated it) and as carrot juice is obviosly a liquid like eniva is could be easily digested. Carrots contain vitamin a in the form of beta carotene, but eniva vibe is also in the form of beta carotene isn't it, as all the ingredients in eniva are from vegetable sources. If you could clear this up, it would be really good. Thanks.

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If you want my honest advice i think a very clean diet with supps that enhance bile flow is the first port of call, thats number 1 and number 2 respectively.

Clean diet- raw fruits, raw vegetables, salads, greens, ginger, chilli, i juice 2-3 x beetroot and apples, ginger and lemon daily and drink that. Some quinoa and brown basmati rice, legumes...cannelini beans, kidney beans, butter beans etc. Occasional local potatoe's or root vegetables. Young coconuts, coconut oil, water. I eat mostly organic, i take sunwarrior or brown rice protein if i'm working out.

thats the main body of my diet. Notice no retinol containing foods.

Liver supp- Milk thistle Physotome is good i've been using it recently. Dr Khoshbins Livotox is good. I prefer the ones without alcohol in them from my experience, the body seems to react to alcohol badly. I'd recommend Milk Thistle Physotome above livotox because of this reason. Look at other cholastasis reversing formulas.

Edited by Chico Esposito
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Thanks chico.

At the bottom you said two ways..

Apart from Eniva what's the other choice? Cheers

How long will this take, do you know? Any estimate? That eniva is expensive stuff to keep buying every month!

And also... You said you're from the UK at one point I believe.

Where do you buy Livotox? They only seem to deliver to the US and canada

Thanks

If you want my honest advice i think a very clean diet with supps that enhance bile flow is the first port of call, thats number 1 and number 2 respectively.

Clean diet- raw fruits, raw vegetables, salads, greens, ginger, chilli, i juice 2-3 x beetroot and apples, ginger and lemon daily and drink that. Some quinoa and brown basmati rice, legumes...cannelini beans, kidney beans, butter beans etc. Occasional local potatoe's or root vegetables. Young coconuts, coconut oil, water. I eat mostly organic, i take sunwarrior or brown rice protein if i'm working out.

thats the main body of my diet. Notice no retinol containing foods.

Liver supp- Milk thistle Physotome is good i've been using it recently. Dr Khoshbins Livotox is good. I prefer the ones without alcohol in them from my experience, the body seems to react to alcohol badly. I'd recommend Milk Thistle Physotome above livotox because of this reason. Look at other cholastasis reversing formulas.

Now this is the third part getting the accutane out of the cell. Two ways to go about this firstly taking Eniva Vibe, if your taking the UK version take 1/2floz in the morning at noon and 1/2floz at night around midnight. Don't exceed this dose, thats around 75-80% RDA Vitamin A per day. No more than that. While your taking it do not take any retinol containing foods whatsoever, no eggs, no milk, no cheese, no fish, no liver or processed foods of any kind, or other multivitamins.

I'd start slow, Remember diets so very important too, all three are important. The liver being the most important as it is the route of the problem in the first place.

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I want to follow up on a question that Indigo asked - how long after taking these things can we expect to see a dramatic improvement from the accutane side effects? For example, if I took herbs for the bile/cholastasis which youy mentioned and Eniva Vibe both continuously could i expect to have dramatic reduction in side effects by the end of this year? Did you feel better as soon as you started taking the Eniva and liver /bile herbs, or did it take weeks, or did it take persueing with them for months before getting better?

Should one take the bile/liver herbs for a while first before taking the Eniva?

Edited by jmsil
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Hi Guys...

I was reading 'Liver detox plan' by Xandria Williams, which so far seems very good.

She's just talking about the various things (fruit/veg/etc) that support the liver.

One thing stuck out for me..

On the topic of amino acids, which is the part I'm at now, she's listed all 12.

One is called glutathione. Below I will link a product:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0019LW...store&psc=1

Here's what she writes:

'Glutathione contains three amino acids, one of them being cysteine, and it improves the capacity of your liver to detoxify environmental pollutants, DRUGS and other chemicals. It can convert FAT-SOLUBLE TOXINS into water-soluble toxins for elimination via the urine, thus decreasing the work of your liver and the need for their elimination via the gall bladder and bile duct and avoiding the possibility of their reabsorption from the digestive tract. Glutamine helps boost immune function, is a powerful antioxidant and helps to slow down the aging process'

Would I be wrong in thinking this suggests that it could eliminate the accutane that has been stored in our bodies? It's interesting. Again, pretty pricey, but even if it doesn't work, it's for detoxing the liver so can't hurt.

Any thoughts?

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In relation to your question about milk thistle phytosome, it's different to regular milk thistle. Regular milk thistle is barely absorbed and only very small amounts enter into the bloodstream, likewise they use silimarin which is the active flavanoid responsible for liver regeneration. Within the silimarin is a substance called silibin, which is even more powerful than silimarnin. They isolate the silibin and bind it with two molecules of phosphatidyl choline, this makes it much more absorbable. Phosphatidyl choline is very similar to bile, it emulsifys fat just like bile. In fact chocolate bars and other processed foods always contain soy lecithin (phosphatidyl choline) to emulsify the fat in the bar. Bile contains cholesterol and phosphatidyl choline naturally in high amounts.....it basically makes the milk thistle around 10x more absorbable and as a result more effective.

It's been known to restore bile acid transport in cholestasis or other biliary problems, it's not quite as powerful as UDCA for the same purpose but it's natural and very good for the liver. Replacing your fats with coconuts and coconut oil takes a huge strain off the digestive system as they are MCT's so the body can easily absorb them. Fat causes the liver to purge thats the whole basis of the liver flush........Many people post accutane find it very difficult to get stones out, i've tried many times myself and only been successful once.

Glutathione enhancing supplements which milk thistle is one are also found in NAC, R-lipoic acid and undenatured whey protein concentrate. All are good at raising glutathione although accutane is principally removed through glucuronidation.

Thanks Chico

So before, when you said Milk Thistle doesn't do anything for accutane side effects, you meant regular Milk Thistle? I ordered some anyway. At this point, I'm trying anything that might help.

On a sidey, I've been talking the sensible-health tinctures for a week and have noticed no improvement whatsoever. My BM's are still terrible. It's like, I need to go, but once I'm sitting there I can't push anything out (nice image). I keep farting too, which is fucking shameful. The digestive enzymes I'm taking also seem to do nothing. I'm worried. Do you still think it's a bile-flow issue?

How can we influence glucuronidation? It's something the body does right? Sorry if it's what you've been talking about previously, I don't remember reading about it.

So would a supplement like Glutathione/NAC be useful?

Cheers man

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Hey guys, I just read through the latest posts and would like to make a recommendation for supplements. They ship worldwide, have an incredibly large selection and are VERY cheap. I know I sound like an advert right now, but I just thought it might help you all out. There's only so many things you can get from Amazon :P

http://www.iherb.com/

Also, I recommend this site for the advice given. All the information there is completely free and the forums are brilliant, so give it a shot if you feel like it:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/

Anyway, I hope you're all doing well and improving; it's difficult to be going through these side effects, but keep your head up. The advice floating around this topic is very good, and I'm certain that these side-effects can be greatly migitated, if not completely reversed.

All the best!

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If i was you indigorush this is what i would recommend......diet- heavy on the organic fruits and vegetables, salads, green juices, lemon ginger celery beetroot juice. Order organic fruit and veg boxes from organic stores and eat clean. Eat some cooked vegetables occasionally like broccoli, potato's, squash etc. I take sunwarrior protein and workout regularly. I eat mostly a raw vegan diet with about 10-20% cooked vegetables/ legumes.

The main point is keep it low fat, try to avoid nuts and seeds and eat young coconuts, normal coconuts and coconut oil instead. I usually eat about 4-5 tablespoons of virgin coconut oil per day. I've found the skin on my face starts tingling after eating the coconut oil and it helps me, cos i have very low bile flow.

I'd recommend Dr khoshbins Livotox for you, i cant vouch for the other brands but i know that works at relieving post accutane constipation. I'd even recommend trying a few liver flushes but replacing the olive oil with coconut oil and seeing how you do.

The constipation and all the other problems are bile related. I just wish i knew about that sooner rather than taking loads of supplements only harming myself in the process. I wish you all the best.

Edited by Chico Esposito
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So it seems those who suffer long term side effects are the ones whose liver could not deal with the dose of accutane and was not able to remove it. So this is the reason it seems they do liver testing during treatment, if your liver enzymes are too high, they take you off the drug as it is an indication that your liver will not able to deal with the drug and you will likely have long term side effects.

Chico and others here, I am wondering if you all were tested for elevated liver enzymes during your treatment?

All of you are so young and I hope you can find something which will remove the accutane from your bodies.

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So it seems those who suffer long term side effects are the ones whose liver could not deal with the dose of accutane and was not able to remove it. So this is the reason it seems they do liver testing during treatment, if your liver enzymes are too high, they take you off the drug as it is an indication that your liver will not able to deal with the drug and you will likely have long term side effects.

Chico and others here, I am wondering if you all were tested for elevated liver enzymes during your treatment?

All of you are so young and I hope you can find something which will remove the accutane from your bodies.

Thanks.

But, no, my liver enzymes were fine throughout treatment.

I believe they take you off if they are.

I wouldn't touch accutane with a 10 foot pole.

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If i was you indigorush this is what i would recommend......diet- heavy on the organic fruits and vegetables, salads, green juices, lemon ginger celery beetroot juice. Order organic fruit and veg boxes from organic stores and eat clean. Eat some cooked vegetables occasionally like broccoli, potato's, squash etc. I take sunwarrior protein and workout regularly. I eat mostly a raw vegan diet with about 10-20% cooked vegetables/ legumes.

Ginger, chilli, garlic - open up the capillaries, good for detoxification and opening up the cells.

The main point is keep it low fat, try to avoid nuts and seeds and eat young coconuts, normal coconuts and coconut oil instead. I usually eat about 4-5 tablespoons of virgin coconut oil per day. I've found the skin on my face starts tingling after eating the coconut oil and it helps me, cos i have very low bile flow.

I'd recommend Dr khoshbins Livotox for you, i cant vouch for the other brands but i know that works at relieving post accutane constipation. If that doesn't work then maybe look into Eniva Vibe, but i'd go the route above first. I'd even recommend trying a few liver flushes but replacing the olive oil with coconut oil and seeing how you do.

The constipation and all the other problems are bile related. I just wish i knew about that sooner rather than taking loads of supplements only harming myself in the process. I wish you all the best.

Cheers man.

Livotox isn't available in the UK though. How did you get it? Where do you live?

The site doesn't post outside the US and Canada.

I saw a herbalist the other day and she reduced my supplements and did applied kinesiology on me, which showed I'm dairy intolerant.

I wasn't having dairy much anyway, but it is in soups you can buy which I now have to avoid.

I was having soya instead, but have found out that's not great either, so now take coconut milk/oat milk with my oatmeal.

I don't have tea or coffee, just herbal tea.

Still nothing to report.

I'm concerned that it's more complicated that my liver. I'm doing all I can and can see no improvement. I'm sure it needs support, but the whole penis thing... There's something wrong. Not just low sex drive. It's like I can't feel much at all, and it's shrivelled like an old man's most of the time.

Damn, I just want this fixed. So much potential is going to waste.

Organic foods are so pricey. I don't have a job right now :/

jsmil (I think it was) - if you're about, how are you getting on? Any luck with the eniva vibe?

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Good to se the forum is back open again! I wanted to make a post a few days ago. I've been away for a few weeks...

I took Eniva Vibe for 9 of the last 11 days, with the last time being yesturday, and it might actually be the last time I take it. This stuff has dried me out, gave me headaches, and made me feel sick. For most of these days I only took 1/4 teaspoon, which I worked out is only 1/12 of 1/2 fl oz. I could just manage taking this amount (maybe), but not any higher. But I understand just because it isn't working for me, it shouldn't stop anyone else giving this a go. If it can help some people, then it can help others.

What I've really come to post about, is the telomere shortening theory, which just found out about 3 days ago. Indigo - I saw your post in the forum which this was discussed in, so I assume you read the PDF. I posted around 6 weeks ago when I joined this thread that suicide was on my mind, because although I don't want to die, I refuse to let Accutane take me to the cleaners. And now I've actually found the telomere theory, I'm actually glad I have in a way, because it's what I needed to prove to people how bad Accutane really is. Anyone who reads the document will instantly have their doubts change.

Edited by jmsil
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