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On 1/12/2017 at 10:17 PM, Weltschmerz47 said:

Sustain Alpha resulted in a 100% recovery for me. However, it was not permanent. About 3 weeks into using 1 pump a day I developed gyno, and ed came back, as well as fatigue, weird bowel movements, etc. This is absurd - there's an AI in sustain alpha. my reaction to sustain alpha speaks VOLUMES about how it is surely our hormones that are messed up.

obviously our hormones are messed up because retinoic acid etc plays a huge role in fertility and such. however, approaching that angle will never fix us.

instead, we must restore our bodies to hormonal homeostasis (i.e., homeostasis PRIOR to taking accutane).

This seems to be a common theme with both Accutane and finasteride sufferers; it's not that it's terribly difficult to experiment with hormones and supplements (at least ones that affect hormones) that make a dramatic, obvious difference, it's that they almost always work temporarily. It's as if how bodies "think" the way we feel now is how we're supposed to be, and will adapt to, and fight, against any attempt to change it.

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Guys , im going to ask important question. I was too away from the knowledge you guys have about accutane side effects.. 
My question is ; why we have side effects hasnt gone for YEARS ?? i have low semen volume for over 2 years now.
Isnt that Accutane goes away in system after 3 months ?! i have read a theory about guts , that thay storage the Accutane in it ? is this what happens ?

why time hasnt cured us ? Im concerned about my growth and height because i still growing up , i have low semen volume which means this is a hormonal problem , and hormonal problems cause low growth !! (via testosterone , DHT)

Is it possible that i may grow less because of Accutane ??  i just used this poison for 5 days ! yeah you hear right just five days of daily usage and i have persisting sexual problems..  

I have persisting low semen volume which means = i have low on T or DHT some way or another , and in past 2 years is it possible that this kind of problem could cause low body growth to me ??

I did the blood tests , but they show up fine ! which like everyone in this topic ! so even tho i did a bloodtest , it does not mean anything no more. Because we see many people who experience very clear low T problems but they still get normal numbers after tests.. İsnt that weird ? where is the problem them ! i concerned about my 2 years of lost growth.. 
( You can read my accutane story  down below )

/topic/352885-accutane-low-semen-volume/?do=embed&comment=3496475&embedComment=3496475&embedDo=findComment#comment-3496475">

 

Edited by SaffronAide

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On 1/2/2017 at 5:13 PM, HideAndSeek said:

Does anyone suffer from loss of emotions/anhedonia? If so, what helps and what is better to avoid? This is one of the worst and hardest things to deal with for me. Thank you! 

In my case, Mirtazapine actually seemed to help for a time with the mental effects that normal antidepressants don't alleviate. I originally asked to try it after reading a couple of cases (not that one should put stock into this) in which people with PSSD, which seems like it might have some similarities with our condition, claimed to be cured, or at least recovered, after being on a particular antidepressant, Mianserin. This is not available in the US, but it works similarly (as it's an analog) to Mirtazapine. Taking Mirtazapine at 15mg dramatically knocked out my anhedonia. I felt much better pretty much overnight and caused me to feel much more normal compared to my usual state post-Accutane. However, it can cause severe fatigue, and in my case I had to stop taking it because of this. I don't recommend either Mirtazapine or Mianserin, but I thought I'd throw this out there, since people tolerate side effects differently and it might be worth looking into possibly trying if you've exhausted other options. Edited by john86

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22 minutes ago, SaffronAide said:


My question is ; why we have side effects hasnt gone for YEARS ?? i have low semen volume for over 2 years now.
Isnt that Accutane goes away in system after 3 months ?! i have read a theory about guts , that thay storage the Accutane in it ? is this what happens ?

 



If youve seen the recent movie " passengers" ... i think it provides a great analogy of what we're going thru.    something is stuck inside of us, and its causing all of our other systems to overcompensate, shut down, restart.   until you fix the core problem (retinoic acid toxicity imo)   everything else is fighting symptoms. 

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On 1/9/2017 at 3:13 PM, Matmes said:

My muscles are feeling tensed all the time too, especially my calfs hurt. I developed Plantar Fasciitis and my archilles tendons hurt, I can't walk without ache anymore.
I have been trying now for 4 years to fix the problem with lots of therapies and visited doctors but nobody could give me an answer why I have this problem. Then I found this post and made the possible connection to Roaccutan.

I took Roaccutan 15 years ago for about 11 months (30 mg/60 kg), together with cortison (5 months).

- what did Roa damage in my body? The muscles, tendons, nerves or something in my brain?
- is it reversible?
- which possibilities do I have to fix it?
- @john86 did you find something that helped you?

Thanks a lot for every reply.

By the way, sorry for not answering promptly. As for what it did, that's the million dollar question, isn't it? No, I unfortunately haven't found anything definitive more than anyone else here, but have you tried any sort of weight training? Or any particular dietary or lifestyle changes? I've recently been experimenting with NSI-189 over the last couple of months. I could have sworn it helped with the feeling of muscle tension, but the side effects were quite horrific; I might try it one more time starting at a much lower dose, however. 

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I may have accidentally fixed my overreactive immune system... I'll write more later when I have time.

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Guys i talked with a Accutane Victim. He is a Doctor !! thats a pretty useful coincidance..

And i learned the problem !!! listen me up !

The hidden problem is : ''The dead receptor'' theory which many of people here have already heard that.  And this theory explains why we have normal hormone levels while we are having serious side effects about hormones !
He said : Accutane (which is a cancer drug) kills the hormone receptors in the body. With this , your body can produce hormones but it couldn't use it because your receptors are already dead.. Thats the simple abstract of it. Go and search this if you want to know more. But this is it.

We should focus this ALL TOGETHER and solve this. Go and see your doctor please , ask them to this theory and ask them for solve , cure and explanation !
Post your informations here so we can cure ourselves. Please -in this week- go and see your doctor and get knowledge about this receptors. We have to be together , thats the only way for cure !!

Reply this comment when you learned the knowledge about it , i will post my information here too.

Please..

Reply me and this post. We should share to all people and victims , we must focus on this receptor problem ! 
And for the gods sake can somebody please start a online signature campaign ? about Accutane so they can hear us !!
 

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OK so my previous post mentions that I may have fixed my overreactive immune system but its more than that, I may have basically fixed my bowel/digestion issues.

So about a week ago I ordered two vials of BPC-157 one for injecting subQ near my knee to try and see if I can fix my fucked up knee without needing a doctor. And the other one to take orally as I have quit amphetamines and have read good things about BPC-157 healing dopamine circuits or something like that. I have taken BPC-157 orally before for a very short and inconsistent amount of time and I did certainly recall having a very flat belly (bloating went down). But that was it, I didn't do it long, just to finish what supply I had.

Fast forward to today. This is my 4th day of my BPC-157 regimen. I haven't noticed anything yet for healing my knee. But today I can recall the exact minute (12:28PM) that I just CLICKED. At that time I swear a ton of my inflammation pain just disappeared, everything got brighter, I've been in a really good mood since then (currently 4:22PM) my stomach has been growling and digesting/moving around. I've been getting food burps and ripping ass all day (I bet my co-workers hate me). And my bloat is starting to go down. Previously my stomach wasn't working basically at all. I eat food, and sometime later I'll shit, that's it. No signs of digestion (even though it was probably still happening). But now I'm getting gas, burping, feeling really mentally clear, going to obviously continue for the full vial and I'll note if anything else changes. Biggest goal for me is that any healing that BPC-157 causes stays after discontinuation. 

Since my morning dose was at about 6:40am and I "clicked" at 12:28pm it makes me think that possibly it needs to go deeper into my gut so I'm going to try a couple times to put it in a enteric coated capsule that takes 8 hours to dissolve, maybe it can do more that way. It does seem to be stable in the GI but perhaps it's being "used up" by the time it reaches far enough, dunno wouldn't hurt to try it in a enteric coat.

Edit: Other potential variables just incase your mileage varies. 
I did once again start up MK-677 just last night (for them gainz with my mk-2866) and there is something on pubmed ( I didnt read just saw the title) that makes me believe that BPC-157 interacts with growth hormone. Just figured I'd note that. I don't think one dose of a growth hormone secretagogue would do much but figured it should be noted that since todays "click" I did add something to my stack last night (mk-677)

Edited by ehohel

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8 hours ago, john86 said:
Taking Mirtazapine at 15mg dramatically knocked out my anhedonia.

That's actually very useful information. Mirtazapine  is essentially nothing more than an antihistamine, aside from its activity on the 5-HT2C receptor. As an inverse agonist on that site, it helps release dopamine and norepinephrine in the frontal cortex. Nortriptyline does the same thing, but has greater antidepressant qualities. Agomelatine also works on the 5-HT2C receptor (antagonist), and is a highly accessible medication. I was just pondering if I should try Agomelatine today. It seems that drugs that inhibit 5-HT2C can have potent anti-anhedonic actions for a subset of people. So perhaps you should look into those other medications if Mirtazapine helped.

It's worth noting I have noticed multiple ex-Accutane and ex-SSRI sufferers praise 5-HT2C antagonist/inverse agonist agents. Edited by ACCUiTy_drANE

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On 01/15/2017 at 5:35 AM, Weltschmerz47 said:

also, an important gene in that pathway.. rs12934922 .. is messed up for me!
If you’ve got one T in rs12934922, I wouldn’t worry.  If you’ve got TT in rs12934922 then you should get real vitamin A, but it’s not as significant as rs7501331..
i am TT
https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/22/importance-real-vitamin-retinol/#Alcohol_Depletes_Vitamin_A


So, mutations in that gene affect your body's ability to convert beta-carotene (precursor to vitamin A found in plants) to retinol. Lo and behold, I am a double T too. It seems that if an unfavorable mutation can exist, I will have it. This mutation is in addition to my body sucking at converting ALA (precursor found in plant foods) to EPA (essential Omega 3). These two things together may further may explain why I felt so bad on a vegan diet. And to think I once believed the vegan diet was the most healthy. Now a days, I try to eat lots of eggs, chicken, and red meat.

In regards to your awesome finding with phytol: Recently, I have tried consuming vast amounts of greens daily  by cooking my own soups and frequently buying lettuce and kale. Do you think these products contain significant amounts of phytol? I'll be sure to look into hemp seeds as well. Phytol seems like a fairly scarce topic when you search online. Edited by ACCUiTy_drANE

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3 hours ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

That's actually very useful information. Mirtazapine  is essentially nothing more than an antihistamine, aside from its activity on the 5-HT2C receptor. As an inverse agonist on that site, it helps release dopamine and norepinephrine in the frontal cortex. Nortriptyline does the same thing, but has greater antidepressant qualities. Agomelatine also works on the 5-HT2C receptor (antagonist), and is a highly accessible medication. I was just pondering if I should try Agomelatine today. It seems that drugs that inhibit 5-HT2C can have potent anti-anhedonic actions for a subset of people. So perhaps you should look into those other medications if Mirtazapine helped.

It's worth noting I have noticed multiple ex-Accutane and ex-SSRI sufferers praise 5-HT2C antagonist/inverse agonist agents.


When I tried it first in 2011,  agomelatine felt almost as effective as melatonin for sleep,  but gave a bit of a mood kick (mild though)  of which melatonin didn't provide.       I was going to try it again, but apparently it has quite a high incidence of liver injury compare to other ADs  (example:    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4407422/

 I found this out when my new psych ordered LFTs as she handed me the script.     This is actually recommended standard practice now instructed from the manufacturer!   That put me off going back on it.      Just a heads up if you consider.  
  Edited by mikez

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On 12/9/2016 at 2:10 AM, ehohel said:
Then why are like 90%> of accutane users just fine, if you know so much about this, then please enlighten me with the cure. Muchas gracias

On the contrary! Oh...believe me, nobody is fine after taking accutane. It's just a question of time. Some will see the effects  just after finishing their treatment (this way it's easy to know the culprit)  , others will see symptoms arise one after another, very discretely until it becomes a big issue 10, 20 years post tane. in the later case, these people doesn't realise it is connected to accutane. And if you notice, all the people that claim to be going well after tane are young.  

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18 hours ago, SaffronAide said:

Is it possible that i may grow less because of Accutane ??  


I do believe Accutane had atleast some effect on my height growth. When I started taking Accutane it was August and in the spring before that I was 175 cm and now I'm 178. The thing is that I was 12 at the moment and I always had been bigger than my peers, but now I'm slightly shorter than average young man in my country. Also I have very small hands. Feels like I didn't never fully develop into a man. I have been playing with the idea what it would be like if hopped on HGH now as a adult.

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Hey guys, little update.

I am beginning TRT as of this morning. Linked below is my reasoning behind this and what pushed me to this over the past 4 years. It's quite extensive and I think.. seeing what many of you post here, you could learn a lot from.
http://forum.bulletproof.com/discussion/19080/im-24-and-i-have-low-t-ive-tried-everything-can-you-help-me

I'll take a little step back for now, but will be sure to keep you guys updated. Thank you everyone for your help til now.

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On 1/16/2017 at 10:16 PM, ehohel said:
That's just one guy who suggests to go straight for the TRT. I totally believe TRT will fix your issues (as long as you stay on it) and that choice in the end is totally yours. But I'm looking for a permanent fix, not a crutch that you have to use for the rest of your life. But like I said, in the end choice is totally yours. Perhaps doing a T steroid cycle followed by PCT would work better than just regular PCT. I haven't used Anastrozole probably long enough, and I'm already off of it mostly because I really wanted to start bulking up and take Ostarine again. But so far being off anastrozole for 3 days didn't give me any rebound (perhaps too early) and a couple days ago I started ostarine which makes me sort of fatigued. But for the most part on the AI I was feeling pretty good and cheery. If anyone does go for an AI though just do small dosage, don't nuke E with 1mg/day for 2 weeks like I did. I already had shitty joints and that probably didn't help. :P Low dose long term would probably be the better option. I did something like 1mg ED for 2 weeks then 0.25mg EOD for like a week and a half. Once I finish my Ostarine cycle I'll go back on anastrozole low dose for maybe 2 months see how that goes.

I apologize for not getting my bloods tested after anastrozole before starting ostarine. :S
Hi, do you know what your lowest reading for estrogen has ever been?
Anyone else for that matter?
Here in the UK they do not have a lower range  so even 5 pmol/L would be dismissed by GP's.
The range given is  <170 pmol/L
I believe for a young male it should be at least 72 + or as a urologist kindly informed me:

A study by Finkelstein et al New England Journal of Medicine (2013;369:1011-1022) suggested that low oestradiol affected sexual function and fat distribution in younger men and many accept 95-170 pmol/l as the normal range. 
In fact I will post the whole email again for anyone interested:
 
The issue is how we deal with a probable drug induced side effect, similar to what we see with antidepressants and finasteride where effects can last for years afterwards. Do we wait for the body to recover with time or do we give more medication to reverse these changes (given that these problems are rare)?
Giving Sildenafil (daily Cialis better) is quite reasonable , as the penis needs regular oxygenation and deterioration occurs if morning erections are lost. There are no risks with this.
Low Oestradiol increases the risk of osteoporosis in the long term and should not be ignored.
 
Treating him would involve "unlicensed" medication. Clomid would increase both T and Oestradiol and potentiate recovery of the pituitary, but opinions would differ as there are no trials or guidelines to help us here. Some doctors today feel totally restrained by guidelines.


I really have found researching low E very difficult so if anyone is able to share any knowledge that would be really helpful.

Nelson Vergel has some strong views on E if anyone is interested.

I have warned before to not assume that E is high - you should always have a blood test.
Many thanks.

 

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On 17.1.2017 at 7:48 PM, SaffronAide said:

Guys i talked with a Accutane Victim. He is a Doctor !! thats a pretty useful coincidance..

And i learned the problem !!! listen me up !

The hidden problem is : ''The dead receptor'' theory which many of people here have already heard that.  And this theory explains why we have normal hormone levels while we are having serious side effects about hormones !
He said : Accutane (which is a cancer drug) kills the hormone receptors in the body. With this , your body can produce hormones but it couldn't use it because your receptors are already dead.. Thats the simple abstract of it. Go and search this if you want to know more. But this is it.

We should focus this ALL TOGETHER and solve this. Go and see your doctor please , ask them to this theory and ask them for solve , cure and explanation !
Post your informations here so we can cure ourselves. Please -in this week- go and see your doctor and get knowledge about this receptors. We have to be together , thats the only way for cure !!

Reply this comment when you learned the knowledge about it , i will post my information here too.

Please..

Reply me and this post. We should share to all people and victims , we must focus on this receptor problem ! 
And for the gods sake can somebody please start a online signature campaign ? about Accutane so they can hear us !!
 

YES! definitly yes, is this the right way.

example: all my  hormone level in every year after accutane are incredibly normal, test for the doctor is high but I live a post-accutane life with ED that destroy 90% of my sexual power and body.
few years ago i tried l-carnitine in high doses, famous for boost androgen-receptors. And the result were incedible, for a short period every day I had spontanous erection, sex interesting, mentally and physically strenght like pre accutane

carnitine boost momentaneus my receptors that can use hormone like a healthy body.
but maybe I overdid it with the doses, I have perhaps had a crash and stopped working.

"your body can produce hormones but it couldn't use it" yes all damages from accutane are summarized in this perfect sentence Edited by Ruvik

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2 hours ago, hatetane said:
Hi, do you know what your lowest reading for estrogen has ever been?
Anyone else for that matter?
Here in the UK they do not have a lower range  so even 5 pmol/L would be dismissed by GP's.
The range given is  <170 pmol/L
I believe for a young male it should be at least 72 + or as a urologist kindly informed me:

A study by Finkelstein et al New England Journal of Medicine (2013;369:1011-1022) suggested that low oestradiol affected sexual function and fat distribution in younger men and many accept 95-170 pmol/l as the normal range. 
In fact I will post the whole email again for anyone interested:
 
The issue is how we deal with a probable drug induced side effect, similar to what we see with antidepressants and finasteride where effects can last for years afterwards. Do we wait for the body to recover with time or do we give more medication to reverse these changes (given that these problems are rare)?
Giving Sildenafil (daily Cialis better) is quite reasonable , as the penis needs regular oxygenation and deterioration occurs if morning erections are lost. There are no risks with this.
Low Oestradiol increases the risk of osteoporosis in the long term and should not be ignored.
 
Treating him would involve "unlicensed" medication. Clomid would increase both T and Oestradiol and potentiate recovery of the pituitary, but opinions would differ as there are no trials or guidelines to help us here. Some doctors today feel totally restrained by guidelines.


I really have found researching low E very difficult so if anyone is able to share any knowledge that would be really helpful.

Nelson Vergel has some strong views on E if anyone is interested.

I have warned before to not assume that E is high - you should always have a blood test.
Many thanks.

 
4ff37d199b.jpg

that's my only estrogen test, that's following about a month of DIM + IC3.
6 hours ago, Kynarr said:

Hey guys, little update.

I am beginning TRT as of this morning. Linked below is my reasoning behind this and what pushed me to this over the past 4 years. It's quite extensive and I think.. seeing what many of you post here, you could learn a lot from.
http://forum.bulletproof.com/discussion/19080/im-24-and-i-have-low-t-ive-tried-everything-can-you-help-me

I'll take a little step back for now, but will be sure to keep you guys updated. Thank you everyone for your help til now.

I do like that guys reasoning. I'm sure you'll feel a hellva lot better on TRT but please let us know if there's any interaction with the other side effects that don't seem to correlate with T. (bowel issues, inflammation, etc;)

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55 minutes ago, ehohel said:

About to run a trial of this stuff. Not hoping for much more of just why not. I'll let you know how it all goes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22666519


where are you getting it from , and how much are you taking?

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/74361-ghk-tripeptide-resets-dna-brain-capillary-skin-etc-regeneration/

http://www.brutalbiceps.com/GHK-CU-100mg-copper-peptide


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3016279/

Acute or chronic inflammation induces a net increase of total copper in blood, synovial fluid and inflamed areas, mobilized from endogenous stores []. Chronic inflammation may lead to depletion of copper stores, implying the need for exogenous copper supply in order to effectively cope with the inflammatory pathologies. While copper complexes are commonly administered by injection, the AI activity of subcutaneous administration of copper complexes in animals was also shown to be proportional to total amount of copper injected [].

The present study indicates that topical administration of copper in form of the tripeptide may offer an effective alternative to injection. Since a realistic dimension for topical application of GHK-Cu as patch may cover 10 cm2 of skin, based on our results 2.33 mg of copper would become available over 48 h. This may be compared to a subcutaneous injection of 300 mg/kg of copper aspirinate in rats without adverse effects, while it proved effective in treating experimental subplantar edema even at a dose of 10 mg/kg.

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I am just about done with life at this point. I am so depressed at this point in time. Oh great.... its 2017. I have tried Paleo, Raw, Vegan, Fasting, Frutarian, and just plain balance of unproccessed foods.. doesnt matter... This acid burned every gland and receptor in my body to where i feel like a sad robot. 

I really dont have much to say, I just dont feel like i signed up for this powerful of a medication. 

7 years post accutane now, and it keeps getting worse and worse.

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37 minutes ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

where are you getting it from , and how much are you taking?

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/74361-ghk-tripeptide-resets-dna-brain-capillary-skin-etc-regeneration/

http://www.brutalbiceps.com/GHK-CU-100mg-copper-peptide


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3016279/

Acute or chronic inflammation induces a net increase of total copper in blood, synovial fluid and inflamed areas, mobilized from endogenous stores [13]. Chronic inflammation may lead to depletion of copper stores, implying the need for exogenous copper supply in order to effectively cope with the inflammatory pathologies. While copper complexes are commonly administered by injection, the AI activity of subcutaneous administration of copper complexes in animals was also shown to be proportional to total amount of copper injected [34].

The present study indicates that topical administration of copper in form of the tripeptide may offer an effective alternative to injection. Since a realistic dimension for topical application of GHK-Cu as patch may cover 10 cm2 of skin, based on our results 2.33 mg of copper would become available over 48 h. This may be compared to a subcutaneous injection of 300 mg/kg of copper aspirinate in rats without adverse effects, while it proved effective in treating experimental subplantar edema even at a dose of 10 mg/kg.

Getting it from ceretropic, they just added it to their site today.

I'm not going for topical, I already have needles and such so just going to do subQ injections. Going to do 1mg first dose, 2mg next and adjust as if I deem necessary. I haven't found tons of info for dosage, I think I saw somewhere on longecity of someone doing 4mg subQ per day? I'll look more into dosage when it arrives on friday/saturday.

" Chronic inflammation may lead to depletion of copper stores
Probably explains why I'm borderline deficient in copper haha. Edited by ehohel

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1 hour ago, ehohel said:
4ff37d199b.jpg

that's my only estrogen test, that's following about a month of DIM + IC3. I do like that guys reasoning. I'm sure you'll feel a hellva lot better on TRT but please let us know if there's any interaction with the other side effects that don't seem to correlate with T. (bowel issues, inflammation, etc;)
Thanks. Your E is about perfect, right? Dim will have decreased it i guess. What;s your T like?

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