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Posted
10 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Guitarman

What are your thoughts on Tane still being stored in our fat cells etc years later? That to heal we need to avoid Vit A?

If I didn’t know any better I’d say you believe the gut is in need of repair based on all your posts and links - that would suggest to me that no amount of avoiding Vit A will make one iota of difference in the healing process of a damaged gut, altered bacteria etc?

Technically speaking we can pursue both, that is work on an anti Vit A diet whilst simultaneously working on trying to fix a damaged gut, just that it’s a hell of a change to follow with the no A diet that may not be necessary in the scheme of things.

I’m making good progress with kinesiologist with gut and it’s not like they are saying go on the anti Vit A diet, infact I’d of tested badly to A if it was an issue by now - my body response would of said by now if A was stressing me out, it isn’t!!

 

8 hours ago, Calcified said:

If vitamin a toxicity was an issue after treatment wouldn't females be worse off than males with the amount of retinol in makeup?  

 

4 hours ago, Roland1968 said:

 

This is a very good question. I have experienced for a long time problems whey I apply moisturizer or suncream. Suncream seems to be the most troublesome. After some hours I get symptoms very similar to when I took accutane e.g. headache, dizziness and so on. I was always wondering if this had to do with Vitamin A in the suncream. Many suncreams contain some sort of oil e.g. Butyrospermum Parkii Butter, Olea Europaea Fruit Oil, which has Vitamin A in it. 

But then on the other hand why don't I get such symptoms when I head food with Vit A in it? Shouldn't the intake through food be much higher compared to application on the skin? It is one of those mysteries after accutane treatment, that I do not get my head around. 

 

These questions are all answered in Grant's PDF on vitamin A, take the time to read it, and it will start to make sense.

https://ggenereux.blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/PoisoningForProfits.pdf

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Posted
1 hour ago, under_tow said:

 

 

 

These questions are all answered in Grant's PDF on vitamin A, take the time to read it, and it will start to make sense.

https://ggenereux.blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/PoisoningForProfits.pdf

His book ‘extinguishing the fire of hell’ is also well written and makes references to accutane. Very thorough. We should all read it!

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Posted

I’ve got it and have read it already.

We have to challenge it though as much as it sounds convincing - it’s one person only saying this, he’s not the only person with alternative views. My kinesiologist has alternatative views but isn’t saying go anti Vit A.

Regardless, I’d like to hear the views of some veterans on here please about it?

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

I’ve got it and have read it already.

We have to challenge it though as much as it sounds convincing - it’s one person only saying this, he’s not the only person with alternative views. My kinesiologist has alternatative views but isn’t saying go anti Vit A.

Regardless, I’d like to hear the views of some veterans on here please about it?

 

He does make incredibly convincing arguments though, and yes we PAS sufferers are probably at a whole new level with how we have been afflicted, yet we were still quite simply at the mercy of what clearly was vitamin a toxicity. To dispute that is plain ignorant. 

Its a bandwagon I’m more than comfortable with jumping on when hearing some posters here have suffered for 20+ years. A 6 month vit a elimination diet should be a walk in the park and a drop in the ocean in regards to that timescale.

Edited by whackutane

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Posted (edited)

my 500 to 700 iu of vitamin a in my milk and cereal is a drop in the bucket compared to Accutane,

and if its not gone after 20 years already, eliminated this kind of amount probably isn't going to make a lot of difference. your also looking at one of the end products in Accutane right? retinoic acid.  it skipped the conversion steps, maybe these conversion steps are normally a safety measure. 

I will agree that any excess vitamin a is not the best idea. For some reason we were having a problem with it in the first place, not everyone does to the same extent apparently. 

As far as trapped in tissues, wouldn't this be obvious in some murine studies?

They know when women can get pregnant again without risk of birth defects, so how does that work?

 

 

Edited by guitarman01

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Posted
2 hours ago, whackutane said:

He does make incredibly convincing arguments though, and yes we PAS sufferers are probably at a whole new level with how we have been afflicted, yet we were still quite simply at the mercy of what clearly was vitamin a toxicity. To dispute that is plain ignorant. 

Its a bandwagon I’m more than comfortable with jumping on when hearing some posters here have suffered for 20+ years. A 6 month vit a elimination diet should be a walk in the park and a drop in the ocean in regards to that timescale.

It’s certainly valid to look into but we really should divide ourselves into 2 groups - those with damage to repair and those who just feel they have toxic levels of Vit A to deal with

At the extreme end Accutane can cause bowel cancer - that’s a fact, would any amount of avoiding Vit A counteract this - I don’t think so. That’s damage or injury that needs addressing in a specific manner. 

As I’ve said, I currently have a dysfunctional HPA to deal with - no amount of either consuming Vit A or avoiding it is going to fix this dysfunction.

So you’ve got to ask yourself what you want out of the anti A diet, it might be perfect if you’ve just got some toxicity to deal with and no real damage but on the other hand if you’ve got bigger problems I think you need to address in a smarter way which involves more than just fasting or avoiding A or gluten or sugar etc.

As I said, my situation has finally been diagnosed after years of bullshit frustration working with well intentioned but incapable Medical GP’s, they’ve offered nothing in the way of repair.

Like my kinesiologist says - by all means go see a GP to put out the house fire but in terms of rebuilding the house they just don’t know what to do

See a kinesiologist to rebuild the house - it’s a slow process but I feel I’m on track.

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Posted
4 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

my 500 to 700 iu of vitamin a in my milk and cereal is a drop in the bucket compared to Accutane,

and if its not gone after 20 years already, eliminated this kind of amount probably isn't going to make a lot of difference. your also looking at one of the end products in Accutane right? retinoic acid.  it skipped the conversion steps, maybe these conversion steps are normally a safety measure. 

I will agree that any excess vitamin a is not the best idea. For some reason we were having a problem with it in the first place, not everyone does to the same extent apparently. 

As far as trapped in tissues, wouldn't this be obvious in some murine studies?

They know when women can get pregnant again without risk of birth defects, so how does that work?

 

 

This is spot on. It skipped the conversion steps.

Sometimes the body stops doing stuff when it doesn't have to.

Vitamin a does help my digestion, but I am not recommending anyone taking it as we don't really know what's going on in the liver.  

Guitarman01 - do you suspect high liver stores or low liver stores of esters?

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Posted

 

http://fluoroquinolonethyroid.com/book_page/thiodine-problems-were-not-the-only-issues/vitamin-a-retinoid-toxicity-and-deficiency-a-role-in-thyroid-disorders-fluoroquinolone-toxicity-me-cfs-sjogrens-syndrome-and-more/

 

Lots of different theories out there.

What are peoples thoughts on this link?

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Posted
5 hours ago, Calcified said:

It stops the breakdown/depletion of vitaminA

https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/fluoroquinolone-antibioitics-including-cipro-ciprofloxacin/

 

12 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

So you’ve got to ask yourself what you want out of the anti A diet, it might be perfect if you’ve just got some toxicity to deal with and no real damage but on the other hand if you’ve got bigger problems I think you need to address in a smarter way which involves more than just fasting or avoiding A or gluten or sugar etc.

Retinoic acid destroys stem cell, by not depleted it from storage, no healing will begin, and proper protein synthesis needed for repair will be impaired.  Whether it is impaired in skin(acne), pancreas(diabetes), HPA(CFS), lungs(asthma), bowels(IBS, Chrons), liver, until it is gone, nothing will heal you.

Retinoic acid bypasses all the proper retinol metabolism steps, allows it to sink right into cells and stay there, if you haven't fasted or done long term low vitA it is still in the cell screwing things up.

Like @whackutane said, doing low A is simple and everyone should be trying this.  I am seeing the results first hand, and so are the users on Grant's forum.

I will continue to report back, as I progress, I want to see all of us progress!

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Posted

https://butternutrition.com/vitamin-a-detox-diet/

Thanks under_tow for información about low vitamin A diet. 

I have to recongnice that  last year I was feeling better than now in the free gluten and sugar diet. When I noticed that when I started eating  (chucrut) red cabbage... I felt good but.. not as very good as before that. I was not sure why, because I also was going to the dentist and thought it could have been due to antibiotic o so.

But yes, maybe red cabbage is full of vit A because of its colour. Actually I'm also having cod liver oil so... it seems to be the perfect storm. And my eyes hurt a bit so that maybe the reason, overdossage of vitamin A. I feel good because of vit D on cod liver oil but also felt something wrong, the vit A I suppose. Thank again for the information

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Posted

Health Risks from Excessive Vitamin A

info from the National Institutes of Health

Because vitamin A is fat soluble, the body stores excess amounts, primarily in the liver, and these levels can accumulate. Although excess preformed vitamin A can have significant toxicity (known as hypervitaminosis A), large amounts of beta-carotene and other provitamin A carotenoids are not associated with major adverse effects. The manifestations of hypervitaminosis A depend on the size and rapidity of the excess intake.

The symptoms of hypervitaminosis A following sudden, massive intakes of vitamin A, as with Arctic explorers who ate polar bear liver, are acute. Chronic intakes of excess vitamin A lead to increased intracranial pressure (pseudotumor cerebri), dizziness, nausea, headaches, skin irritation, pain in joints and bones, coma, and even death.

Although hypervitaminosis A can be due to excessive dietary intakes, the condition is usually a result of consuming too much preformed vitamin A from supplements or therapeutic retinoids. When people consume too much vitamin A, their tissue levels take a long time to fall after they discontinue their intake, and the resulting liver damage is not always reversible.

Hypervitaminosis A

Hypervitaminosis A is having too much vitamin A in the body. 
There are two types of vitamin A hypervitaminosis: acute (caused by taking too much vitamin A over a short period of time), and chronic (occurs when too much of the vitamin is present over a longer period).

Complications of vitamin A toxicity include: excessive calcium levels, kidney damage due to high calcium, liver damage. In infants, the children may fail to thrive.

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Posted

What supplements are you anti Vit A advocates using?

anyone bothering with calcium d glucarate or Chinese bitters to aid the process??

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Posted
8 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

What supplements are you anti Vit A advocates using?

anyone bothering with calcium d glucarate or Chinese bitters to aid the process??

 

I think zinc and adequate protein are probably best to make sure retinol binding protein RBP is supported.

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Posted
On 2/19/2019 at 10:55 AM, Francisco..Blanquez said:

I think our problem is not in the colon (in same particular case maybe too). Fecal replacement is done there, in the colon. Our problem is in the small intestine and stomach.

When you do 16hours fasting you feel good even when you have not donne poo...

I think our lining was damaged, the same our libs. Them some good bacteria had not a good place to live and others like fungus or yeast took place. It makes microholes in the intestines hence permeability. The liver is working a lot because of the toxins yeast and fungus produce.

Maybe the lack of energy come from there, a stresed liver, and the lack of some very important vitamins like b12, folic acid, D, and maybe some more since the intestine is damaged and can not absorb them properly.

A theory for the problem digesting fats is that because of the micropores in our intestines... acids can go to our body... so our pH is lower ( I think lower mean more acid and higher more alcaline). So to keep a balanced accidity our liver produce less accids...which are needed to digest fats.

 

On 2/19/2019 at 11:18 AM, Francisco..Blanquez said:

Why you feel good when doing fasting? Because the liver is not stresed. 

That bad bacteria are not metabolising food and producing toxins which stress the liver. When the liver works well tiroids works better and hormones can be produced .

Moreover, the food metabolised by that fungus and yeast.... are gluten and sugar (included fruit and maybe all kind of sweet thing(not sure because there is a lot of sweeteners)). That is why you feel much better, like cured, when you do a "NO ALMOST" free gluten and sugar diet. Anyway each one should investigate for the better food

So.... vitamin A is the missing link, roaccutane is Vitamin A. 

We have fatty liver because of the hipervitaminosis so.. it doesnt work properly, dificult to digest gluten and sugar.... hence all our problems.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Francisco..Blanquez said:

 

So.... vitamin A is the missing link, roaccutane is Vitamin A. 

We have fatty liver because of the hipervitaminosis so.. it doesnt work properly, dificult to digest gluten and sugar.... hence all our problems.

I have read scientists are looking into vitamin A to treat fatty liver.

Also I do note that scientists also suspect retinoic acid/vitamin A prevents obesity.

Yet I also have read studies implying accutane treatment can facilitate metabolic syndrome, I do find it difficult to maintain a healthy weight.

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Posted (edited)

This is more what im looking at right now, a disturbance in commensal bacteria that never came back, only to be replaced by less desirables that dont serve much benefit. 

Our intestinal microbiome influences metabolism -- through the immune system

Study teases out how 'good bacteria' keep us metabolically fit

June 21, 2018
The innate immune system, our first line of defense against bacterial infection, has a side job that's equally important: fine-tuning our metabolism.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180621172437.htm
 
Watnick and her colleagues knew from their previous research that bacteria living in flies' intestines make a short-chain fatty acid, acetate, that is essential for the flies' own lipid metabolism and insulin signaling.
 

"When there's a problem processing glucose or lipids, fats get stuck in these droplets in cells that are not designed for fat storage," she says.

The new study again used fruit flies, which are easy to breed and manipulate genetically, and have cell types in their intestines much like humans'. When Watnick and colleagues examined flies with mutations in the IMD innate immune pathway, they again saw fat droplets in their intestines.

Watnick believes these fat droplets, whether caused by loss of intestinal bacteria, loss of tachykinin or loss of the innate immune pathway, are the equivalent of fatty liver. Their accumulation is a sign that the body cannot properly metabolize carbohydrates and fats. In essence, Watnick thinks these flies have metabolic syndrome, commonly associated with obesity and type 1 diabetes.

Edited by guitarman01

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Posted
3 hours ago, Calcified said:

I have read scientists are looking into vitamin A to treat fatty liver.

Also I do note that scientists also suspect retinoic acid/vitamin A prevents obesity.

Yet I also have read studies implying accutane treatment can facilitate metabolic syndrome, I do find it difficult to maintain a healthy weight.

I suppose those scienticics also knows the side efects of vitamin A overdossage and would recongnice ours as some of them. Unless Roche pharmaceutics pay them to say the opossite...

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Posted

Can’t speak for everyone but it’s super dangerous to fast if you have chronic fatigue- for me that is by way of HPA dysfunction 

Some of us are pretty fucking zapped after 21 years of this onslaught so if you’re in the early years it might be ok but be careful recommending fasting to everyone.

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Posted (edited)

The new post-drug patient survey has been unveiled on propeciahelp.

 

https://forum.propeciahelp.com/t/post-drug-syndrome-survey-faq-survey-now-live-please-participate/34482

 

Even if you don't have sexual side effects, please participate. We are attempting to finally characterize some of these post-drug conditions to sort out which groups have what symptoms and find any unifying factors among our groups of patients.

If you sign up, then post a new topic describing your experience with Accutane in "member stories", an invitation to take the survey should be generated.

 

.

Edited by Dubya_B

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Posted
9 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Can’t speak for everyone but it’s super dangerous to fast if you have chronic fatigue- for me that is by way of HPA dysfunction 

Some of us are pretty fucking zapped after 21 years of this onslaught so if you’re in the early years it might be ok but be careful recommending fasting to everyone.

I tried intermittent fasting with low carb in the eating window and it was fine while doing it, but I found myself becoming very intolerant to food.  I was taking supplements but still felt it didn't do me any good, like 1 step forward 2 steps back. My vitamin a intake was low, like guitarman01 I have never had a big vitamin a intake.

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Posted

Hello there, 

Meet another accutane sufferer. Got ED after taking only 1 accutane pill. Thats a lot of reading here for me. I've read on propecia forum a coincidental recovery from PrEp medication. But haven't tried myself yet. There are also some official studies going on regarding both PFS and PAS, since they have same mechanism.but i guess we need to wait.

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Posted
43 minutes ago, trak said:

Hello there, 

Meet another accutane sufferer. Got ED after taking only 1 accutane pill. Thats a lot of reading here for me. I've read on propecia forum a coincidental recovery from PrEp medication. But haven't tried myself yet. There are also some official studies going on regarding both PFS and PAS, since they have same mechanism.but i guess we need to wait.

PAS,PFS,ED, PrEp? Sorry, I dont know that mean

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Posted
37 minutes ago, Francisco..Blanquez said:

PAS,PFS,ED, PrEp? Sorry, I dont know that mean

PAS = Post accutane syndrome, PFS = Post finasteride syndrome. Prep = medication to treat/ prevent HIV.

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