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Wetyuringo

How could milk/ dairy be related to acne??

I am clear (basically) and have been so for several months now. Around a year ago I stopped consuming dairy products and honestly it never really seemed to help when I was just trying OTC and other holistic things. What got me clear was some prescription anti-biotics, retin-a, and benzaclin. However, since I dropped it I have had a grudge against everything dairy, because for so long I have practiced under the belief that it causes acne. For me, milk and cheesy stuff just "seemed" like natural culprits, probably because I have been so heavily influenced by the words of everyone on the internet desperately searching for solutions.

Now that I am clear I have grown sceptical about this theory. For almost 4 months I was dairy free but still had tons of acne without improvement because I was still experimenting with things recommended online (honey, eggs, a BP wash that I know realize I always did wrong, water only, salicylic acid, and even toothpaste!). Finaly I grew some balls and went to the doc, his prescriptions undoubtably cleared me. Yet still the stigma associated with Dairy remains because of what I read.

The evidence associated with a dairy-acne relationship seems a little cloudy and non-specefic to me. Now that I'm majoring in biochemistry I can add my 2 cents about what I've read. First I looked at what we know about the cause of acne. As far as we know acne is caused by the over production of sebum made in the sebacious glands of our skin, clogged pores build up the sebum and bacterial growth is influenced- hence a pimple. We THINK acne could be influenced or aggravated by heredity, hormonal imbalances, cosmetics, dirt and MAYBE by food and stress. Next the theory regarding milk is that consumption of hormones in the product are in turn causing acne. They need to specefiy HOW hormones from a cows milk can have the exact same affect as a humans hormones at the site of the receptors in our body. The chemical structure of the "androgens" (which is assumed to be present in very small amounts in milk) is also only similar to the structure of ours. C02 and C0 are "similar" in structure but are very different for obvious reasons. I have looked at the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology (2008) and it seems the study concering acne/milk merely concluded that a sample of milk drinkers had more acne than non milk drinkers. They need to take into consideration EVERY aspect of these individuals lifestyles inclluding their heredity to make an accurate assumption, and this would be extremely difficult. The results are not established and are likely flawed because each person in the study is different. Unless they studied 100 clones with acne and 50 where milk drinkers and 50 where not milk drinkers than the results will never be completely reliable.

It just seems so far fetched and way to simple to be reality

Cow->Hormone (Androgens)->milk->human->Androgen->DTC->Acne

That is poor logic and is not considering the complex mechanisms of the body which naturally balances hormones and gets rid of the unused ones and unrecognized (COWS...) ones. Even if it is that simple, just because the body has a hormone does in no case means that it MUST use that hormone. People need to give more credit to their bodies.

If dairy could cause acne than why doesn't everyone who consumes a lot of dairy get acne? By this logic they should all get acne. Of course I could be wrong in my thinking, and if I am please let me know because I am sick of being mislead.

Does anybody know any place where I can get a concrete relationship between the two? If not than I am really convinced that dairy should be fine for me, and it will not take away my clear skin from me. Also I have learned that listening to uncredible people over the internet has always sent me nowhere.

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have you done a google search? there are plenty of websites that provide evidence on the relationship between acne and dairy. I don't know how concrete it is, but I don't really care either. I know what works for me and many others have had similar experiences.

I never believed there was any correlation between food and acne at all. It was only when I became vegan for reasons not related to my skin and my skin miraculously became crystal clear, I was convinced. When I eat dairy these days, like clockwork I will breakout and when I am dairy free, my skin is totally acne free. I am pretty convinced I have some sort of milk allergy.

You seem adamant that it is not possible for dairy to cause acne so believe what you will. To each their own. I know what works for me and I will stick to it. I also know that everybody is different and reasons for acne are varying. There have been cases where people cut out gluten from their diet and miraculously became acne free after suffering for years from acne, likewise with dairy. I am no expert but I have read that many cases of acne are related to food allergies, most commonly gluten or dairy. Gluten has absolutely no effect on me but it might for the next person.

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If dairy could cause acne than why doesn't everyone who consumes a lot of dairy get acne? By this logic they should all get acne. Of course I could be wrong in my thinking, and if I am please let me know because I am sick of being mislead.

Not everybody who sunbathes will get skin cancer, not everybody who smokes will get lung cancer. Everybody's body is different, some are more tolerant than others, some are more susceptible to particular diseases or illnesses than others.

I find your post pretty patronising tbh. You have found a way to clear your acne so tell people about that rather than questioning the validity of those who have become clear by cutting out dairy, we are not all dreaming and we have no reason to lie. :rolleyes:

Also I have learned that listening to uncredible people over the internet has always sent me nowhere.

What makes somebody credible and somebody not? This is an online forum for people to help and support one another in an endeavour to be clear from acne. We can learn from other's experiences or try things that have worked for other people in hope that they might work for us.

It just seems so far fetched and way to simple to be reality

Cow->Hormone (Androgens)->milk->human->Androgen->DTC->Acne

That is poor logic and is not considering the complex mechanisms of the body which naturally balances hormones and gets rid of the unused ones and unrecognized (COWS...) ones. Even if it is that simple, just because the body has a hormone does in no case means that it MUST use that hormone. People need to give more credit to their bodies.

Everybody's 'reality' and reasons for their acne are different. Well fortunately many of us have benefited from this 'poor' logic. I think you need to give more credit to people's experiences. It seems like you are bitter towards all those who have found there to be a relationship between their acne and dairy.

If you are not convinced, then don't take any notice of threads relating to dairy and acne. That is fine. Your body might not have any reaction to dairy anyway. No need to rain on everybody else's parade though.

Edited by her

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If dairy could cause acne than why doesn't everyone who consumes a lot of dairy get acne? By this logic they should all get acne. Of course I could be wrong in my thinking, and if I am please let me know because I am sick of being mislead.

Not everybody who sunbathes will get skin cancer, not everybody who smokes will get lung cancer. Everybody's body is different, some are more tolerant than others, some are more susceptible to particular diseases or illnesses than others.

I find your post pretty patronising tbh. You have found a way to clear your acne so tell people about that rather than questioning the validity of those who have become clear by cutting out dairy, we are not all dreaming and we have no reason to lie. :rolleyes:

Also I have learned that listening to uncredible people over the internet has always sent me nowhere.

What makes somebody credible and somebody not? This is an online forum for people to help and support one another in an endeavour to be clear from acne. We can learn from other's experiences or try things that have worked for other people in hope that they might work for us.

It just seems so far fetched and way to simple to be reality

Cow->Hormone (Androgens)->milk->human->Androgen->DTC->Acne

That is poor logic and is not considering the complex mechanisms of the body which naturally balances hormones and gets rid of the unused ones and unrecognized (COWS...) ones. Even if it is that simple, just because the body has a hormone does in no case means that it MUST use that hormone. People need to give more credit to their bodies.

Everybody's 'reality' and reasons for their acne are different. Well fortunately many of us have benefited from this 'poor' logic. I think you need to give more credit to people's experiences. It seems like you are bitter towards all those who have found there to be a relationship between their acne and dairy.

If you are not convinced, then don't take any notice of threads relating to dairy and acne. That is fine. Your body might not have any reaction to dairy anyway. No need to rain on everybody else's parade though.

Sometimes I wonder when people undergo these diets if their skin (if it clears) was going to do so anyways. If anybody knows that something works for them than by all means they should pursue it. Don't forget that I avidly avoided dairy for over a year. I'm only now starting to grow cynical because I realize that cutting dairy never really did anything for me, besides void me of calcium. I just want something more concrete than what is present so I can make a decision for myself.

Also, they only thing that I truely discredit is the whole "candida" crap. That is a myth and anybody with internet can quickly discover this for themselves.

And for your information, I have done many google searches but only get articles written by god knows who that are typically so badly written they are hard to take seriously.

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As a fellow biochem major ( :boogie:) I'll have to disagree with you, in regards to us "thinking" that acne is a hormonal issue.

We know it is. If that wasn't the case, some children would have acne from the time they're born. Androgens are mostly responsible, but food which also upsets our testosterone/estrogen balance (such as soy and most legumes) also causes acne.

As we all know, males have mostly testosterone in their system with a little bit of natural estrogen.

Females have mostly estrogen with a minute amount of testosterone.

When you upset that balance, several things occur simultaneously which upset our bodies' natural patterns and the way things work. One such side effect of upsetting this balance is acne.

Although not all dairy is treated with hormones, a large percentage of it is. My guess would be that if you're buying dairy products from a non-rBGH source, it won't really affect or help your acne.

Edited by chunkylard

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There is some research documenting the link between dairy intake and acne. Here is one abstract from pubmed:

Skin Therapy Lett. 2010 Mar;15(3):1-2, 5.

Does diet really affect acne?

Ferdowsian HR, Levin S.

Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, Washington, DC, USA.

Abstract

Acne vulgaris has anecdotally been attributed to diet by individuals affected by this skin condition. In a 2009 systematic literature review of 21 observational studies and 6 clinical trials, the association between acne and diet was evaluated. Observational studies, including 2 large controlled prospective trials, reported that cow's milk intake increased acne prevalence and severity. Furthermore, prospective studies, including randomized controlled trials, demonstrated a positive association between a high-glycemic-load diet, hormonal mediators, and acne risk. Based on these findings, there exists convincing data supporting the role of dairy products and high-glycemic-index foods in influencing hormonal and inflammatory factors, which can increase acne prevalence and severity. Studies have been inconclusive regarding the association between acne and other foods.

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Sometimes I wonder when people undergo these diets if their skin (if it clears) was going to do so anyways. If anybody knows that something works for them than by all means they should pursue it. Don't forget that I avidly avoided dairy for over a year. I'm only now starting to grow cynical because I realize that cutting dairy never really did anything for me, besides void me of calcium. I just want something more concrete than what is present so I can make a decision for myself.

Also, they only thing that I truely discredit is the whole "candida" crap. That is a myth and anybody with internet can quickly discover this for themselves.

And for your information, I have done many google searches but only get articles written by god knows who that are typically so badly written they are hard to take seriously.

As I already said, as soon as I start eating dairy my acne returns. It is not that my acne was already going to clear.

Your best bet is experiment with dairy and without it. If it makes no difference for you then don't bother cutting it out. I LOVE dairy and wish I didn't have to cut it out of my diet but at the end of day, atleast for me clear skin>dairy.

I went on holiday and decided to allow myself dairy... after 5 consecutive days my skin had broken out so badly and my chin was covered in really itchy hive like bumps. Aside from the hormone factor, many many people have dairy allergies, some worse than others.

Edited by her

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it isnt related, unless you have some extreme allergy to dairy. most of us will not see a difference consuming dairy products but there are people who are allergic. everyone isnt the same and we all have different allergies.

i've never been a huge dairy consumer and even cut it out completely for a while, there was absolutely no change in my skin. i dont think dairy is really as beneficial as the industry wants us to believe, mainly because of the hormones pumped in milk. the big reason people are told to drink milk is for calcium, but there are plenty of other sources of calcium.

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Milk consumption and acne in teenaged boys.

Adebamowo CA, Spiegelman D, Berkey CS, Danby FW, Rockett HH, Colditz GA, Willett WC, Holmes MD.

Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts, USA.

Comment in:

* J Am Acad Dermatol. 2008 May;58(5):794-5.

Abstract

OBJECTIVE: We sought to examine the association between dietary dairy intake and teenaged acne among boys.

METHODS: This was a prospective cohort study. We studied 4273 boys, members of a prospective cohort study of youths and of lifestyle factors, who reported dietary intake on up to 3 food frequency questionnaires from 1996 to 1998 and teenaged acne in 1999. We computed multivariate prevalence ratios and 95% confidence intervals for acne.

CONCLUSION: We found a positive association between intake of skim milk and acne. This finding suggests that skim milk contains hormonal constituents, or factors that influence endogenous hormones, in sufficient quantities to have biological effects in consumers.

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Willow, that last study is a correlation. Just because boys who drank milk had acne does not mean that the milk caused the acne..one can't draw that conclusion

1. Maybe boys with acne felt bad about their skin and coped more by eating more dairy

2. Maybe those boys already had a hormonal imbalance that caused the acne and contributed to extra hunger for dairy products (more calcium, bigger appetite, etc).

3. Maybe boys who's parents buy a lot of dairy products also buy a lot of product X, which causes acne

Etc Etc

All im sayin is that causation isnt correlation

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Willow, that last study is a correlation. Just because boys who drank milk had acne does not mean that the milk caused the acne..one can't draw that conclusion

1. Maybe boys with acne felt bad about their skin and coped more by eating more dairy

2. Maybe those boys already had a hormonal imbalance that caused the acne and contributed to extra hunger for dairy products (more calcium, bigger appetite, etc).

3. Maybe boys who's parents buy a lot of dairy products also buy a lot of product X, which causes acne

Etc Etc

All im sayin is that causation isnt correlation

Except when you consider all of the underlying factors, and apply those factors along a large group of people and find that a large majority of people who do have acne, also tend to eat dairy, that's when you find a correlation.

The converse could be said about products like BP. Just because someone's acne gets better when they're using BP, doesn't mean it's working.

1.) What is the person's age? Some people naturally grow out of acne after puberty

2.) What is their diet and lifestyle like?

3.) Are they using any other products?

4.) How often are they using BP?

5.) How severe is their acne?

6.) How often does the person break out?

7.) What is their skin type?

But we know BP works (for a short time anyway) because we applied the above questions to a broad range of people.

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Willow, that last study is a correlation. Just because boys who drank milk had acne does not mean that the milk caused the acne..one can't draw that conclusion

1. Maybe boys with acne felt bad about their skin and coped more by eating more dairy

2. Maybe those boys already had a hormonal imbalance that caused the acne and contributed to extra hunger for dairy products (more calcium, bigger appetite, etc).

3. Maybe boys who's parents buy a lot of dairy products also buy a lot of product X, which causes acne

Etc Etc

All im sayin is that causation isnt correlation

:rolleyes:

Edit: And just for the record, I think it's hard to deny, after reading these boards, that dairy has some effect on some people acne-wise.

Edited by wheezle

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tbh I really don't see how this thread is constructive at all.

It is obviously the cause of acne for some people. Just because it's not the cause of your acne it doesn't mean it can't be the cause for someone else. Why are we trying to disprove a dietary change that has helped many people rid of their acne? This is an acne support forum. :confused:

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Who needs a study for things like these?

If I eat too much dairy I get fat arse cysts, same for countless others on here. Some people have as much as they want and it makes no difference.

A conclusion of any study can not go against this fact, so therefore there is neither a right or wrong conclusion, making any studies irrelevant.

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The studies are piling up linking genetics and dairy and carbs (including sugar) and acne.

The science is now down to the molecular receptor level.

Some of this is at www.acnemilk.com

And I understand there will be some updates there in the next few weeks.

Go look, particularly at the "Physicians' Guidelines"

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Willow, that last study is a correlation. Just because boys who drank milk had acne does not mean that the milk caused the acne..one can't draw that conclusion

1. Maybe boys with acne felt bad about their skin and coped more by eating more dairy

2. Maybe those boys already had a hormonal imbalance that caused the acne and contributed to extra hunger for dairy products (more calcium, bigger appetite, etc).

3. Maybe boys who's parents buy a lot of dairy products also buy a lot of product X, which causes acne

Etc Etc

All im sayin is that causation isnt correlation

I never said anything about it establishing causation - I've been a researcher for over 15 years, I do understand the difference. It is a correlational study, but it is still demonstrating that there may be a link between the two. I'm posting the research because some people were indicating that there is no evidence or that all the evidence comes from crappy internet sources. That's simply not the case. There have been additional studies on this that have shown similar results, so once you start having a group of studies that come to similar conclusions, and are able to offer a plausible explanation of why these might be linked, that starts to establish a stronger argument that there is a link between dairy and acne. The body of research, combined with the experience of so many people here who do believe dairy worsens their acne, does suggest a strong possibility that dairy may worsen acne.

What hasn't been well-established is whether is actually causes acne, or simply worsens it or triggers it in those who are already acne-prone.

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Yea Willow that is true and definitely worth pointing out. Its weird because i have never noticed an affect of food on my acne EXCEPT for dominoes pizza. That literally gives me a cyst every time I eat it, so i definitely agree that food can cause acne. BUt also, when I was in italy for two weeks I did nothing but drink coffee and alcohol, along with eating pizza, pasta, gellato, and all that other amazing stuff. My skin was super clear all trip! (I was on the DKR also of course hehehe).

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BUt also, when I was in italy for two weeks I did nothing but drink coffee and alcohol, along with eating pizza, pasta, gellato, and all that other amazing stuff. My skin was super clear all trip!

I think I'll move to Italy.

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pretty much agree with willows last sentence there

what I don't see is (unless its in the full texts) is what exactly the rest of the diet looks like in terms of carb intake, how much milk they are drinking, and if they are drinking it with other carbohydrate rich meals. 8oz of milk is barely anything for 12g, and people are easily drinking 2-3x times that amount

milk and cookies, milk and cereal, yum yum

Edited by captshiner

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combined with the experience of so many people here who do believe dairy worsens their acne, does suggest a strong possibility that dairy may worsen acne.

but you don't know if someone is accurately tracking their diet to where its for sure. case in point, a study done on glycemic load in like 2005 that came up negative in it worsening acne, but the key in the abstract was the patients self reported their intake and meals. yeah, real convincing :rolleyes:

they claim its gluten because they cut out bread and pasta, which could change a diet dramatically. I'd like to see these same people down a ton of sweet potatoes or white potatoes and see what happens.

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