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koreanboy8

Sebum - Biotin and Streptavidin.

First off I have Seb derm. So stopping sebum is my number one priority. I know that it is not the be all and end all for acne, but It often times helps if not completely gets rid of the acne because the environment without sebum is no longer as suitable for the bacteria to thrive. In Seb derm, the fungus causing the problems lives off the sebum. It eats/breaks down the sebum and the oleic acid from that causes the inflammation (in some people's skin).

"a biotin antagonist which is capable of blocking the activity of the biotin dependent enzyme acetyl-SCoA-carboxylase (ASC from now) implicated in sebum production"

So the biotin dependant enzyme ASC is needed to make sebum. No or lower biotin = no or less ASC which then = No or less sebum.

The bacterium streptomyces avidinii makes streptavidin or is part of it(i'm not sure if it's produced as a metabolic process or if they are actually partly made of it? Not very knowledgable on bactaria.)

Other means of lowering biotin available in the body are taking large doses of B5, Accutane(Isotretinoin) and Avidin from raw eggwhite.

B5 and egg whites are highly inconvenient ways to reduce biotin levels. Isotretinoin is hard to get access to without a prescription. And kinda scary.

So my idea is to get hold of some of this bacteria streptomyces avidinii and then ferment something with it. Then, ingest the fermented product.

Once you found the bacteria you shouldn't need to buy more if handled properly.

The only questions are, is it safe to be ingested(I can't find info on this, does anyone have any info on this bacteria?) and then if safe, where could we find some?

If this idea can not work for some reason I would also like any suggestions and/or information on other things like Biotinidase inhibitors or ASC inhibitors, that would be safe to ingest of course.

Please only serious comments. I'd prefer not to get those one liners 'biotin doesn't cause acne' or something like that.

Whatever else I can come up with, I'll post here.

Edited by koreanboy8

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The more I look the harder it seems for me to find anything helpful in this area.

"Biotin is an essential cofactor for acety-SCoA-carboxylase, an enzyme which converts acety-CoA into malonyl-CoA. This step is thought to determine the rate at which fatty acids, such as palmitate are synthesised in the sebaceous gland from precursors. This synthetic pathway can be illustrated as follows:

Palmitate and other fatty acids are the basic building blocks for triglycerides and provides some of the precursors for wax and sterol esters. These lipid classes make up the bulk of human sebum. Therefore, it can be seen that inhibition of the enzyme acetyl-SCoA-carboxylase, which can be achieved by inhibiting biotin function using biotin antagonists, can significiantly reduce the ability of sebaceous glands to synthesise lipids. This will, in turn, deplete the skin surface of lipids and reduce greasiness."

I'm thinking I'm going to just go with B5. It seems like it is the most convenient way I can find at the moment(that being said, I don't think it is very convenient).

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The more I look the harder it seems for me to find anything helpful in this area.

"Biotin is an essential cofactor for acety-SCoA-carboxylase, an enzyme which converts acety-CoA into malonyl-CoA. This step is thought to determine the rate at which fatty acids, such as palmitate are synthesised in the sebaceous gland from precursors. This synthetic pathway can be illustrated as follows:

Palmitate and other fatty acids are the basic building blocks for triglycerides and provides some of the precursors for wax and sterol esters. These lipid classes make up the bulk of human sebum. Therefore, it can be seen that inhibition of the enzyme acetyl-SCoA-carboxylase, which can be achieved by inhibiting biotin function using biotin antagonists, can significiantly reduce the ability of sebaceous glands to synthesise lipids. This will, in turn, deplete the skin surface of lipids and reduce greasiness."

I'm thinking I'm going to just go with B5. It seems like it is the most convenient way I can find at the moment(that being said, I don't think it is very convenient).

Yep, I struggled to find much information on this route some time ago. I do know that increased Biotin lead to increased sebum in myself though.

I tried a couple of avenues initially. I tried the B5 route first. this worked, but needed a lot of B5 and I found it hard to keep up. I also tried raw egg whites, I didn't seem to get much effect from this, but I think I wasn't trying enough of them, but again this is a similar problem.

I can remember some time ago reading something about Vit A interlinking with it as well, after a quick Google I couldn't find it. I do take Vit A supplements (be careful if female and a possibility of getting pregnant). I find this seems to help and I don't have excess sebum these days. I also did radically change my diet, eating a lot more low GL foods, and making sure I eat lots of green veg like Broccoli and also some like sweet potatoes and peppers that have "safer" vit A. The vit A & diet route I think does take a while to build up (be careful with amounts taken), as its fat soluble and stored in the body, you need to give it a few months.

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Yeah~ I've wondered about vitamin A, I've read that people have used large doses to 'cure' acne and that it is similar to Isotretinoin in makeup. Do you take vitamin D or get much sun? I've read that vitamin D and vitamin A 'compliment' each other and that it's hard to 'overdose' on them when you get enough of both, if that makes sense.

I bought a pack of B5 tablets, and to get 10g per day the pack was going to be empty in 1.2 days...

I'm still wondering how I'm gonna accomplish lowering my biotin levels. When taking a 'Hair, nail and skin' pill my sebum increased noticebly or at least it seemed to me to be more sebum then I'd ever had at one time. There was like 1g of biotin in the pill though which seems to be a lot.

I was thinking about doing egg whites before, but I heard stories of sulphate or phosphate or something in their that causes people to have a lot of gas. And the inconvenience of having to eat such a large amount of egg whites.. raw.......

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Yeah~ I've wondered about vitamin A, I've read that people have used large doses to 'cure' acne and that it is similar to Isotretinoin in makeup. Do you take vitamin D or get much sun? I've read that vitamin D and vitamin A 'compliment' each other and that it's hard to 'overdose' on them when you get enough of both, if that makes sense.

I bought a pack of B5 tablets, and to get 10g per day the pack was going to be empty in 1.2 days...

I'm still wondering how I'm gonna accomplish lowering my biotin levels. When taking a 'Hair, nail and skin' pill my sebum increased noticebly or at least it seemed to me to be more sebum then I'd ever had at one time. There was like 1g of biotin in the pill though which seems to be a lot.

I was thinking about doing egg whites before, but I heard stories of sulphate or phosphate or something in their that causes people to have a lot of gas. And the inconvenience of having to eat such a large amount of egg whites.. raw.......

I take vit-D when I don't get out into the sun much (which is increasingly common now winters coming). I am a bit lazy with it though, and fairly sure I'd have low levels in general.

1g of Biotin is a lot, so not surprised at a large increase of sebum.

There is a site that has Biotin amounts listed, I can remember trying to avoid the foods that were very high in it. That could help, if you find you consume a lot of foods high in Biotin. I think the body can create itself though.

Maybe a combination of a lower dose B5 and vit A together could help, but I'm not really sure how they work, and never tried it, so hard to recommend that one.

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Yeah~ that may be something to try b5 + A. I think it's more of a balancing act then completely removing biotin from my system. So I guess I'll just have to experiment.

I wish someone would just make an avidin pill. You could control how much biotin you block and It would be so convenient. You can get the stuff from labs but It's not food grade.

I'm looking for info on vit A inhibiting or lowering biotin. I think I'm low on Vit A anyway cause I never eat any organ meats and hardly ever eat enough vegetables. I got some vit D3. What is the vitamin A you use? Do you know of any that are optimum for humans? From what I read just now retinyl palmitate is the optimum for absorbtion..?

"b-carotene is stored in the liver and many other organs ("golden ovaries"). Rat studies show that the body cannot convert such stored b-carotene into vitamin A, even if a deficit develops. A result of heavy consumption of synthetic b-carotene from a great variety of foods to which it is added, plus from natural sources, may result in saturating the liver's storage capacity for fat soluble vitamins, so that reserves of other fat soluble vitamins, e.g. vitamin D and vitamin A, are not created"

That just totally confused me...

Edited by koreanboy8

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BIOTIN

Biotin is a water-soluble vitamin, generally classified as a B-complex vitamin. After the initial discovery of biotin, nearly forty years of research were required to establish it as a vitamin. Biotin is required by all organisms but can only be synthesized by bacteria, yeasts, molds, algae, and some plant species.

FUNCTION

In its physiologically active form biotin is attached at the active site of four important enzymes, known as carboxylases . Each carboxylase catalyzes an essential metabolic reaction.

Acetyl-CoA carboxylase catalyzes the binding of bicarbonate to acetyl-CoA to form malonyl-CoA. Malonyl-CoA is required for the synthesis of fatty acids.

Pyruvate carboxylase is a critical enzyme in gluconeogenesis, the formation of glucose from sources other than carbohydrates, for example, amino acids and fats.

Methylcrotonyl-CoA carboxylase catalyzes an essential step in the metabolism of leucine, an indispensable (essential) amino acid.

Propionyl-CoA carboxylase catalyzes essential steps in the metabolism of amino acids, cholesterol, and odd chain fatty acids (fatty acids with an odd number of carbon molecules).

Histones are proteins that bind to DNA and package it into compact structures to form chromosomes. The compact packaging of DNA must be relaxed somewhat for DNA replication and transcription to occur. Modification of histones through the attachment of acetyl or methyl groups (acetylation or methylation) has been shown to affect the structure of histones, thereby affecting replication and transcription of DNA. The attachment of biotin to another molecule, such as a protein, is known as "biotinylation". The enzyme biotinidase has recently been shown to catalyze the biotinylation of histones, suggesting that biotin may play a role in DNA replication and transcription.

DEFICIENCY

Although biotin deficiency is very rare, the human requirement for dietary biotin has been demonstrated in two different situations: prolonged intravenous feeding without biotin supplementation and consumption of raw egg white for a prolonged period (many weeks to years). Avidin is a protein found in egg white, which binds biotin and prevents its absorption. Cooking egg white denatures avidin, rendering it susceptible to digestion, and unable to prevent the absorption of dietary biotin .

Symptoms: Symptoms of overt biotin deficiency include hair loss and a scaly red rash around the eyes, nose, mouth, and genital area. Neurologic symptoms in adults have included depression, lethargy, hallucination, and numbness and tingling of the extremities. The characteristic facial rash, together with an unusual facial fat distribution, have been termed the "biotin deficient face" by some experts. Individuals with hereditary disorders of biotin metabolism resulting in functional biotin deficiency have evidence of impaired immune system function, including increased susceptibility to bacterial and fungal infections.

Predisposing conditions: Two hereditary disorders, biotinidase deficiency and holocarboxylase synthetase (HCS) deficiency, result in an increased biotin requirement. Biotinidase is an enzyme that catalyzes the release of biotin from small proteins and the amino acid, lysine, thereby recycling biotin. There are several ways in which biotinidase deficiency leads to biotin deficiency. Intestinal absorption is decreased because a lack of biotinidase inhibits the release of biotin from dietary protein. Recycling of one's own biotin bound to protein is impaired, and urinary loss of biotin is increased because the kidneys appear to excrete biotin that is not bound to biotinidase more rapidly. Biotinidase deficiency sometimes requires supplementation of as much as 5 to 10 milligrams (mg) of oral biotin/day, though smaller doses are often sufficient. HCS is an enzyme that catalyzes the attachment of biotin to all four carboxylase enzymes. HCS deficiency results in decreased formation of all carboxylases at normal blood levels of biotin, and requires high-dose supplementation of 40 to 100 mg of biotin/day. In general, the prognosis of both disorders is good if biotin therapy is introduced early (infancy or childhood) and continued for life.

Aside from prolonged consumption of raw egg white or intravenous feedings lacking biotin, other conditions may increase the risk of biotin depletion. The rapidly dividing cells of the developing fetus require biotin for DNA replication and synthesis of essential carboxylases, thereby increasing the biotin requirement in pregnancy. Recent research suggests that a substantial number of women develop marginal or subclinical biotin deficiency during normal pregnancy. Some types of liver disease may also increase the requirement for biotin. A recent study of 62 children with chronic liver disease and 27 healthy controls found serum biotinidase activity to be abnormally low in those with severely impaired liver function due to cirrhosis. Anticonvulsant medications, used to prevent seizures in individuals with epilepsy, increase the risk of biotin depletion.

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Molybdenum is required by the body to manufacture two important enzymes, Aldehydrogenase and Aldehyde-Oxidase, which allow the liver to neutralize a powerful and otherwise relatively inert toxin (neurotoxin), acetaldehyde. This toxin is a metabolic waste material produced by yeast organisms that accumulates in unhealthy intestinal environments, circulating blood, and other tissues and organs of persons with Candida Albicans infections. The number of people suffering with multiple, chemical, sensitivities is growing yearly. These people's inability to cope in a chemically contaminated environment can be nightmarish. The class of aromatic petroleum derived chemicals, which these persons are especially sensitive to are the aldehydes. The chief toxic metabolite of alcohol is also acetaldehyde. When the liver's ability to effectively cope with this poison is restored, the cumulative damage, which has resulted from its presence in our tissues, can begin to be healed. Edited by Mr. Shade

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As it relates to Candida, those of you who have read the work of Dr. Orion Truss, or who have seen quotes by others from his work, will already have been alerted to his assertion that much of the harm done by Candida results from its waste product, acetaldehyde, which in turn can affect the metabolic, neurological, endocrine, and immune systems. Further, that few chemicals can create so much havoc in the body as acetaldehyde can. It may interfere with the receptors for acetylcholine which is supposedly the major neurotransmitter in the corpus callosum.

Formaldehyde, obviously then, is related to acetaldehyde in the aldehyde chain of chemicals.

Dr. Stephen Rochlitz worked with cross-crawl brain integration exercises with dyslexic patients with formaldehyde taped to these patients right brain hemisphere, and sometimes the left.

Acetaldehyde is a fungal waste product.

Dr. Stephen Cooter, in his book "Beating Chronic Disease", ProMotion Publishing, San Diego, California, states that "Candida is responsible for flooding the system with an accumulation of toxic acetaldehydes. Acetaldehydes are known to poison tissues -- accumulating in the brain, spinal cord, joints, muscles and tissues."

Dr. Cooter then goes on to describe how he learned from a chiropractor, Dr. Carol Cooper [this name came up on this List way back] that molybdenum -- a mineral -- not a medication, but a nutrient, had a blanket reputation for breaking down yeast by-products into forms that the body could excrete. Coincidentally, Dr. Cooter read the monogram by Dr. Walter Schmitt "Molybdenum for Candida Albicans Patients and Other Problems" through Dr. Cooper. [interestingly, these are all chiropractor, Drs. Roschlitz, Cooper, and Schmitt.]

I'm beginning to see a glimmer of some possible connections here. Dr. Roschlitz's work, and Dr. Walter Schmitt's, although slightly different, seems similar to me to the principle of Dr. Nambupridad's work with NAET, and perhaps then, holding the substance, when the body is worked on through one of their modalities, might not seem so strange after all. I think I see a common denominator here. Worth exploring? Perhaps....

Back to Dr. Cooter and Dr. Schmitt: "Molybdenum is chemically responsible for breaking down acetaldehyde into acetic acid. Acetaldehyde cannot be excreted from the body; it accumulates. Acetic acid can be, though, and the body naturally removes it or changes it into acetyl coenzyme A, a major player in the body's energy system.... Acetaldhyde accumulations in tissue are responsible for weakness in muscles, irritation, and PAIN."

And now for the good part (g), directly quoted from Dr. Walter Schmitt:

"Chemical aldehydes are best known as fragrances." [shall I repeat that?] "Chemical aldehydess are best known as fragrances.... Ethanol, or drinking alcohol, is also precessed to acetaldehyde. ...the body has an enzyme which breaks down the aldehydes to less toxic substances. This enzyme is aldehyde oxidase, or sometimes, aldehyde dehydrogenase. Aldehydes encountered dietarily or environmentally or produced in the body must be handled by aldehyde oxidase metabolic pathways.

Acetaldehyde is a paraticularly toxic substance which, in addition to being produced by threonine and ethanol, is a product of the metabolism (i.e. fermentation) of carbohydrate in yeast -- hence the Candida connection. Acetaldehyde is thought to be the major source of tissue damage in alcoholics rather than ethanol itself. The conversion of acetaldehyde into acetic acid" for this reaction to occur, threonine to acetaldehyde to acetic acid to acetyl coenzyme A, NAD (niacine amide) is required, and aldehyde oxidase is dependent of riboflavin, iron, and molybdenum. These forgoing nutrients could be helpful to Candida albicans patients, and others who are sensitive to various fragrances and airborne odors. Those patients with aldehyde sensitivity are incredibly sensitive to any type of fragrance.

By coincidence, (or is it?) there's a little squibb in the newsletter from the Environmental Health Association of Dallas on fragrance. "Perfume today is not made from flowers but from toxic chemicals..... More than 4,000 chemicals are used in fragrances. Of these, 95 percent are made from petroleum. Some toxic chemicals found in fragrances: toluene, ethanol, acetone, formaldehyde, limonene, benzene derivatives, methylene chloride, and many others known to cause cancer, birth defects, infertility, nervous system damage, or other injuries.... Exposure to scented products can cause exhaustion, weakness, 'hay fever', dizziness, difficulty concentrating, headaches, rashes, swollen lymph glands, muscle aches and spasms, heart palpitations, nausea, stomach cramps, vomiting, asthma attacks, neuromotor dysfunction, seizures, and loss of consciousness." This was reprinted from No Perfume Means Healthier Air brochure, Breath of Fresh Air Battleaxe, Oakland, California.

And from another source comes another connection -- from Dr. Robert Atkins' newsletter: Dr. Atkins is writing about Pantethine which he prescribes to his Crohn's Disease and Colitis patients, with acknowledgement to Dr. Melvin Werbach for Dr. Werbach's study that demonstrated that people with colitis have markedly decreased Coenzyme A activity if the mucosal surface of their colons, even when the blood levels of pantothenic acid are normal. Dr. Atkins concluded, based on his success with these patients of his, that Pantethine bypasses the block in converting Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) to Coenzyme A. But also, that Pantethine is a growth factor for lactobacillus bulgaricus and bifidobacterium that we know help control yeast overgrowth (and Dr. Cooter also speaks of it in his book). Candida, according to antibody studies done at the Atkins Center, is involved in more than 80 percent of all cases of Crohn's and Colitis.

And for autoimmune problems, Dr. Atkins states, " For all conditions that a doctor might prescribe prednisone -- allergies, asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, lupus, and olther autoimmune diseases, pantethine can be safely, effectively substituted. I routinely use it for all of those conditions on hundreds of my patients, and it's valuable in weaning them off steroidal drugs, or certainly in allowing a lower dose....

By upping body levels of a body enzyme, pantethine counteracts brain fog, certain allergic sensitivities, and some consequences of alcoholism. (And here it is --) ... In people with candidiasis, the enzyme fights off a toxic byproduct called acetaldehyde, which is thought to cause brain fog, often-suffered but rarely diagnosed.... Acetaldehyde also is suspected of being responsible for some symptoms of alcoholism, including alcoholic heart muscle disease. The pantethine-stimulated enzyme also detoxifies formaldehyde, an all too frequent offender for chemically sensitive individuals."

In summary, Dr. Atkins is saying that Pantethine, without toxic consequences, can reduce cholesterol, counuteract oxidation, stimulate the growth of friendly bacteria, and fight allergies, inflammation, autoimmune disruptions, and alcoholism.

In case you wondered, Dr. Cooter and Dr. Schmtt suggest 300 micrograms of Molybdenum in three divided doses per day, and further suggests staying on it for at least 4 months.. Dr. Atkins suggests 450 to 900 miligrams daily of Pantethine with an equal amount of Pantethenic Acid.

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Anyone here brave enough to waste a year of his/her life and study molecular biology? I was so close giving up on computer science and try cracking this acne shit...

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from what i've been reading lately it seems ACC (the stuff responsible for sebum / a dependent on biotin enzyme).. it seems ACC inhibitors are being studied.. from what i'm reading it makes your blood profile better.. and less likely to get fat and diabetes.. and it would slow or stop sebum like accutane does ( i suspect accutane stops sebum by the same mechanism blocking bioting through biotinidase inhibition, it seems just blocking ACC could actually be beneficial to us as humans unlike the blocking of biotin completely)

i think in animal tests they block the ACC genes out.. but i've read they also use inhibitors sometimes.. if i find anything good i'll post more..

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oh~ and i found this.. i've read people saying you'd need 20 eggwhites a day.. this seems to say otherwise..

"Biotin deficiency is relatively rare and mild, and can be addressed with supplementation. Such deficiency can be caused by the consumption of raw egg whites ( Eating 2 or more uncooked egg whites daily for several months has caused biotin deficiency that is serious enough to produce symptoms), which contain high levels of the protein avidin, which binds biotin strongly. Avidin denaturates upon heating (cooking), while the biotin remains intact."

ww.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/313.html

i'm not sure what 'symptoms' are exactly.. but if you doubled it to 4 raw eggwhites maybe in a month you could get less sebum production

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"Here, using the potent ACC inhibitor soraphen A, a macrocyclic polyketide from myxobacteria, we show that ACC activity in cancer cells is essential for proliferation and survival. Even at nanomolar concentrations, soraphen A can block fatty acid synthesis and stimulate fatty acid oxidation in LNCaP and PC-3M prostate cancer cells."

at first i thought this was bad.. but apparently it means that it stops the cancer from growing and causes it to die..

ACC inhibition looking better and better.. off to try to find out what 'soraphen A' is..

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