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bio_nerd

Red marks are NOT hyperpigmentation

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Posted (edited)

For all the people with red marks thinking they have PIH (post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation)

What you actually have is PIE (post-inflammatory erythema)

PIH (post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation) is BROWN and BLACK marks commonly seen in people with darker skin. It is caused by an increase in skin melanin.

Sun spots and birth marks are a good example of these. Darker skinned people

can also get PIH as a result of popping a pimple too hard or simply just getting a bad cyst. This

is not the case with light skinned people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperpigmentation

I should add that is possible to have a combination of BOTH in darker skinned people or light skinned people, but more commonly in darker skin.

RED marks are erythema's and are caused by the bodies response to some kind of internal/external trauma

like popping a pimple, an infection(pimple), a cut or scrape., sunburn,or harsh topicals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erythema

Erythema disappears temporarily when you press down on it with your finger, hyperpigmentation does not, this effect is called blanching. It is possible to tell the difference by finding a clear piece

of glass or plastic and pressing down on the mark with it.

Basically an erythema is caused by the body engorging the blood vessels/capillaries in that area (vasodilation)

The blood vessels/capillaries widen so they can carry more blood and nutrients to the area and prevent

scarring and send more white blood cells to fight infection.

It is basically a good thing but -- can get annoying when it lasts too long!!

The effect is temporary but can be prolonged in some people for various reasons.

Please see this thread which discusses it fully.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Post-Infl...em-t277054.html

The picture on the far left below illustrates the state of the blood vessels/ capillaries when engorged, when not engorged (normal skin tone), and when when vasodilated (shrunk) which can be caused by exposing skin to cold air or water.

Please sticky this so people know not to treat their red marks like hyperpigmentation because the treatments for the two are completely different and you will end up wasting your money. For example, skin bleaching creams will have ZERO effect on red marks as they are intended for hyperpigmentation only.

The two pictures below show the difference between PIH (brown marks) in the middle and PIE on the far right (red marks)

post-136903-1286941208_thumb.jpg

post-136903-1286942289_thumb.jpg

post-136903-1286942296_thumb.jpg

post-136903-1286941208_thumb.jpg

post-136903-1286942289_thumb.jpg

post-136903-1286942296_thumb.jpg

Edited by bio_nerd

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Posted

Um...

My spots are still red-ish (I wouldn't say that they're brown, anyway), and they used to be VERY red a few months ago, and they DON'T temporarily turn white during blanching like PIE would. So please be careful to note that PIH can also be red/reddish before making a blanket statement claiming that all PIH is brown.

PS, I am extremeley light skinned, and it is certainly possible for light skinned people to experience PIH.

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Posted (edited)
Um...

My spots are still red-ish (I wouldn't say that they're brown, anyway), and they used to be VERY red a few months ago, and they DON'T temporarily turn white during blanching like PIE would. So please be careful to note that PIH can also be red/reddish before making a blanket statement claiming that all PIH is brown.

PS, I am extremeley light skinned, and it is certainly possible for light skinned people to experience PIH.

The only red skin pigmentation i know of is port wine stains. and even that is a disorder involving

the capillaries, not melanin. So i am not sure if that can even be classified as pigmentation.

Any discoloration involving melanin is going to be brown or black, there is no such thing as red

melanin.

I didn't say light skinned people could not get PIH. It is just less common that's all. lots

of light skinned people have freckles and that's a form of PIH.

Okay, i forgot to mention there is another type that doesn't blanch called purpura

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purpura

and here is the article on port wine stains (also doesn't blanch) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port-wine_stain

Edited by bio_nerd

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Posted

Then what do you do to speed up the healing process?

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Posted
Then what do you do to speed up the healing process?

Well, you have a few options. Trying to "wait it out" didn't work for me, as I'm already 2 years into waiting and they still are present.

I think the most effective treatment is lasers that specifically destroy blood vessels (v-beam is the best) and I can speak from experience that now almost 7 weeks after my 2ND treatment, I'm noticing some changes. The red marks are generally lighter, and when I shave, they don't seem to turn as red as they use to and it never lasts longer than 15 minutes or so anymore afterwards (judging from my most recent shaving experiences). I don't want to jinx myself here but if I had to just state pure facts of the changes so far I'd so those are the major ones. I plan to try and cram 2 more treatments in before summer (hopefully it's all I will need to eliminate most of there flushing as well as there general appearance) but my fingers are crossed.

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Posted

Ok...

I don't have port-wine stains from acne, nor do I have purpura. Those are completely unlrelated to acne. I also do not have PIE because my red spots don't get red for hours after I touch them. Sure, if I take a hot bath they may become slightly more noticeable, but I don't think that this is my blood vessels expanding. Instead, I think it's just the increase blood flow to my face from being in a hot bath. After all, my entire face gets red and flushed afterwards too... and my entire face isn't a giant splotch of PIH or PIE.

Is it also important to point out that Jamesy didn't even have these marks as a result of acne? I think it is because we are looking at two very different things here. You're right, he probably doesn't have PIH because his skin was never INFLAMED; he had beauty marks removed. For me, though, and most everyone else on this site, our skin was inflamed because we had acne swelling in our pores.

My PIH is kind of brown-ish now, and whatever is still perceptable at this point kind of looks like freckles. But it was, at one point, BRIGHT RED. I didn't have PIE or freaking port-wine stains that turned to PIH; I had PIH all along that just takes a while to fade. Look around this site a little more and you'll see that most people see their PIH for 6-18 months. I'll be 100% clear of mine probably in the next 2 or so, but until then, the redness is continuing to fade to brown, and then to nothing.

You should also cite things other than wikipedia.

Please be careful making these huge statements; not only do I think you're wrong in the information you're espousing, I think you're wrong for saying something as attractive as "treat your spots like PIE and maybe you'll find something effective!" to a group of people mentally struggling with their red marks.

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Posted

Wow, I guess I was wrong about what I had... Oh, the treatments are the same!? I guess I'm still fucked.

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Posted
Ok...

I don't have port-wine stains from acne, nor do I have purpura. Those are completely unlrelated to acne. I also do not have PIE because my red spots don't get red for hours after I touch them. Sure, if I take a hot bath they may become slightly more noticeable, but I don't think that this is my blood vessels expanding. Instead, I think it's just the increase blood flow to my face from being in a hot bath. After all, my entire face gets red and flushed afterwards too... and my entire face isn't a giant splotch of PIH or PIE.

Is it also important to point out that Jamesy didn't even have these marks as a result of acne? I think it is because we are looking at two very different things here. You're right, he probably doesn't have PIH because his skin was never INFLAMED; he had beauty marks removed. For me, though, and most everyone else on this site, our skin was inflamed because we had acne swelling in our pores.

My PIH is kind of brown-ish now, and whatever is still perceptable at this point kind of looks like freckles. But it was, at one point, BRIGHT RED. I didn't have PIE or freaking port-wine stains that turned to PIH; I had PIH all along that just takes a while to fade. Look around this site a little more and you'll see that most people see their PIH for 6-18 months. I'll be 100% clear of mine probably in the next 2 or so, but until then, the redness is continuing to fade to brown, and then to nothing.

You should also cite things other than wikipedia.

Please be careful making these huge statements; not only do I think you're wrong in the information you're espousing, I think you're wrong for saying something as attractive as "treat your spots like PIE and maybe you'll find something effective!" to a group of people mentally struggling with their red marks.

:clap: Exactly what I wanted to say but didn't have the energy to write.

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Posted

Well... I don't feel like arguing... just know that melanin doesn't change colors in the span of a day. So if your red marks look faint and then you do something like wash your face and they look redder, that's not more red melanin rushing into the marks... it's blood vessels doing that... and if you're like me... tat's what you really really hate... lol

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Right, and it seems like you in particular DO have PIE. I'm just saying that you can most certainly have "red" PIH as well. To claim that identical acne severity in dark skinned and light skinned people results in PIH in one group and PIE in the next is absurd and a dangerous statement to make to people who are looking for any solution they can (and trust me, I was certainly there... I'm 8 months into my red marks and while they're barely there at all now they are still present, and I went through periods searching for ANY magic potion to get them to just heal already!).

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Posted

Ok so it seems like I definitely have PIH. I am of indian origin (darker skin) and have brown spots.

I am not sure how to go about curing these. I had posted a message and got a couple of replies but i am confused on what to you.

Hydroquinone?

retin A?

EMU oil?

here is my post

and here are some more pics.

can anyone recommend some specific products? pls help!

post-139229-1287504031_thumb.jpg

post-139229-1287504046_thumb.jpg

post-139229-1287504069_thumb.jpg

post-139229-1287504079_thumb.jpg

post-139229-1287504031_thumb.jpg

post-139229-1287504046_thumb.jpg

post-139229-1287504069_thumb.jpg

post-139229-1287504079_thumb.jpg

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