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joris

questions about fat and carb metabolism

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So ive been reading some books etc (summary of good calories bad caloriries , watching things like sugar the bitter truth)

And got confused on 2 things (well more on the cholesterol part but this post is about fat and carbs)

So according to GCBC fat is made from 3 fatty acids and 1 glyceride. The fatty acids come from fat. And the glyceride from sugar (most from fructose). In this process the glycerides play the primary role.

Now my question: Why wouldnt a low fat diet work , if you dont have any fatty acids you wont get any fat. Or is it is inpossible to get low fat enough. Because you have like 90 fatty acids and only 10 glycerides, which means that the only way you can affect the process is by going lower on the carbs?

Now sugar the bitter truth:

why isnt fruit bad like processed foods. I understand that the absorbtion will be slowed by all the other stuff in fruit, but still it will still be bad right. Does this make such a huge deal? Because if you for example absorb 90/90 sucrose calories you eat (pure form) and get like 60/90 fruit calories you eat. 45 (all fructose) and 11 (24% of glucose) = 56 calories go to liver and get turned into glyceride. But fruit is higher in fructose and like 50calories end up in the liver. So whats the difference! Does less % of the sugar in fruit get absorbed as i mentioned? Or is it to hard to consume enough fruit to get over the really toxic fructose level?

ps. This topic has to do with acne since i think that a healthy diet is better for acne.

Edited by joris
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I think for most people fruit isn't bad because the benefits outweigh the risks. Despite it being high in fructose, it has a lot of beneficial nutrients and it is more appealing than vegetables to some people so it's a nice way to get your vitamins. I don't think people would get to a toxic level of fruit because your body usually sends out signals to stop eating it because the fiber fills you up and it's nutrient rich. This is why there's a difference between eating a candy bar with a ton of fructose (not even sure if that exists) or any other sweet food because your body probably won't tell you to stop eating because there is no nutrients. You probably have to decide on your own to stop or stop when you're full (except the feeling of being full will quickly diminish and you will once again be hungry again due to lack of nutrients and blood sugar spikes).

I don't know all that much about this stuff but I figured I'd offer my thoughts.

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I'm probably not answering anything directly but I do know that we need fat to absorb nutrients and to slow the rate at which carbs go into the blood (eliminating sugar highs and insulin spikes).

As for fruit, I always thought fructose was the lesser of the evils? Out of sucrose and glucose.

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sucrose is just glucose bounded with fructose

Glucose is used by your cells mainly , 20% of glucose and 100% of fructose go to your liver. Firstly restoring the energy in your muscles (if you have sported) then it goes to creating fat. In the process you can get non alcoholic fatty liver (fructose and ethanol is processed the same way in the liver)

thanks cheychey, still why eat fruit if you can eat veggies.

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To start:

In 1999, the USDA asked more firms (food companies) that weren’t being taken into account prior to this point to report their total sales of vegetable oil. They then threw the numbers into the mix in 2000 and did not adjust for years prior. This makes it appear like a huge increase in added fats when in fact this is not the case
Edited by joris
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sucrose is just glucose bounded with fructose

Glucose is used by your cells mainly , 20% of glucose and 100% of fructose go to your liver. Firstly restoring the energy in your muscles (if you have sported) then it goes to creating fat. In the process you can get non alcoholic fatty liver (fructose and ethanol is processed the same way in the liver)

thanks cheychey, still why eat fruit if you can eat veggies.

Well in the modern world outside of these closed quarters, people like the way it tastes more. People like my brother, for instance, hardly ever gets and vegetables. He sometimes reaches for a piece of fruit instead of some other junk, though. It's appealing even to those with the worst dietary habits and it's still better than eating some junky granola bar or chocolate bar (one with a lot of sugar). It bothers me how people label all chocolate as bad...

Anyway, as you said the amount of high fructose corn syrup in products is increasing. I've noticed myself that if you actually look at the ingredients of some crappy processed foods, a lot of them contain partially hydrogenized oils. Isn't trans fat supposed to be banned? I think it's a lot worse than having HFCS in something. I know it's off topic but I find the two comparable. They keep ending up everywhere yet they are so unhealthy.

I've been on a low fat diet (I know I'm dumb) but it isn't really adequate. When I switched over to high fat, I noticed some dramatic differences. I definitely became more healthy...my nails stopped breaking altogether. My hair is probably stronger and shinier. My skin almost reflects light now because it looks so hydrated (not really referring to my face). My face though, looks clearer, little to no inflammation, seems like everything heals up fast. All this and more. People can live on low fat diets, I did fine, but you're definitely healthier with more fat & protein.

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100% of fructose go to your liver.

This is the key reason why sugar causes acne. We need the liver to filter bad hormones out of our body, it can't do that (among other things) when it's constantly being burdened by fructose. Even a few grams of it is still going STRAIGHT to your liver, which filters it out like any other toxin. The only difference is that sugar doesn't enter in small parts per million, but a tidal wave.

He sometimes reaches for a piece of fruit instead of some other junk, though.
Both give him the same insulin spike which is probably the only way he gets energy. His subconscious would see fruit and junk snacks as one and the same. Edited by uncle buck
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I'm confused as to what exactly you meant in your first post, but you do know that sugars can be converted into fat right? When you say why wouldn't a low fat diet "work," what do you mean? Work to do what?

Check out the wiki page on lipogenesis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogenesis

Well acording to "good calories bad calories" fructose goes to liver 100% -> into glyceride. Goes to fat cells and forms fat. The things bind in the fat cell and are to big to get out. They unbind and bind constantly. If this goes to slow fatty acids can slip trew and be used as energy. Or cycled back if you turn out to have enough energy. Low insulin levels support this. High insulin levels let less fat to be burned. Glucose also goes to the liver but only a small part. The rest goes to the blood and raises insulin levels.

This book and more recommend a high fat diet low carb diet. But my question was why because without the fatty acids you wont be able to create fat either.

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100% of fructose go to your liver.

This is the key reason why sugar causes acne. We need the liver to filter bad hormones out of our body, it can't do that (among other things) when it's constantly being burdened by fructose. Even a few grams of it is still going STRAIGHT to your liver, which filters it out like any other toxin. The only difference is that sugar doesn't enter in small parts per million, but a tidal wave.

Most people get above 150g of fructose and glucose a day. (150+0.24*150)*7=1302 to the liver a week. Most people drink around 10beers a week i guess. Thats around only 100g, which only less then 90g go to liver. So how can drinking be hard on the liver. To do the same as fructose you need to drink 130beers a week. (18/day). Note i took 5% 250ml beer.

Btw i dont know really if alcohol is metebolized the same way as ethanol. Only from the sugar the bitter truth video. I havent seen alcohol the bitter truth (its by someone else, but i dont wanna know everything about it.)

Edited by joris
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You don't need to create fat, what high insulin does is tell fat cells to hold onto calories which is how you can get fat without eating fat.

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well if you never eat a lot of fat you wont be able to ever create fat thus not being able to hold on to it right? Or is it just inpossible to get so low fat. So you always create a little bit of fat, and because its so low fat you have high insulin thus you hold on to everything you create??

Edited by joris
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You'll always hold on to it unless your body is using fat as fuel, which happens when you eat a decent amount of fat. So, when you're not eating fat, your body is holding on to it. When you're eating fat, your body uses it. Not sure how it gets "created" though.

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Am I missing something? It's created by lipogenesis. When you eat a large enough amount of carbohydrates that you reach the limit of your glycogen stores, your body converts the carbs into fat for long term storage (by a fun process detailed in that wiki article above).

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