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sincerelywithlove

For Those Who've Cut Dairy Out of Their Diet

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pretty weird thread..

anyways.. from what i understand the reason people aren't getting the calcium from milk(or any other place) is lack of vitamin d(could be wrong, anyone with more info, real info.. let me know)

saying it's not a 'natural' thing to drink dairy as an adult does not mean it isn't good or healthy.. it's an invalid argument.. and from what i've read about casein, it seems to only be a problem in the intestinal wall if you have gluten in your diet. please don't try to refute this without scientific evidence or something substantial.. not claims that don't mean anything. if you want scientific evidence for anything i say just ask.

masai tribe in africa drink cow's milk, in fact it's one of their main staples and they don't have acne.

read these sites if you want scientific evidence on diet and what is metabolically equivalent to what people have evolved to eat(or what they have been eating for a long time until industrialization) but without the cult like style of most places who are just copying paleo diet(trying, cause we can't know 100%) to an exact tee..

it's about what is metabolically equivalent to what is healthy for the human body, not whether something is natural(whatever that means, how can anything ever be unnatural? but that's a philosophy discussion for another day..) or not.. milk has a complete protein, rich in nutrients but like brian said, it lacks iron and vit c.. not that i care much about vitamin c..

i think diet is a major part(minus genetics and other environmental factors.. what else is there?) of acne and many diseases.

by the way.. i think some people may have a genuine problem with dairy.. if so, obviously it would be stupid do have it.. but hating it for no real reason is just weird if you ask me..

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site links didn't show up.. guess i didn't read the rules carefully enough.. if you search paleonu, healthy skeptic, hyperlipid at the current moment they are all the first result.. the sites i tried to link..

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pretty weird thread..

anyways.. from what i understand the reason people aren't getting the calcium from milk(or any other place) is lack of vitamin d(could be wrong, anyone with more info, real info.. let me know)

saying it's not a 'natural' thing to drink dairy as an adult does not mean it isn't good or healthy.. it's an invalid argument.. and from what i've read about casein, it seems to only be a problem in the intestinal wall if you have gluten in your diet. please don't try to refute this without scientific evidence or something substantial.. not claims that don't mean anything. if you want scientific evidence for anything i say just ask.

masai tribe in africa drink cow's milk, in fact it's one of their main staples and they don't have acne.

read these sites if you want scientific evidence on diet and what is metabolically equivalent to what people have evolved to eat(or what they have been eating for a long time until industrialization) but without the cult like style of most places who are just copying paleo diet(trying, cause we can't know 100%) to an exact tee..

it's about what is metabolically equivalent to what is healthy for the human body, not whether something is natural(whatever that means, how can anything ever be unnatural? but that's a philosophy discussion for another day..) or not.. milk has a complete protein, rich in nutrients but like brian said, it lacks iron and vit c.. not that i care much about vitamin c..

i think diet is a major part(minus genetics and other environmental factors.. what else is there?) of acne and many diseases.

by the way.. i think some people may have a genuine problem with dairy.. if so, obviously it would be stupid do have it.. but hating it for no real reason is just weird if you ask me..

Its not so much the milk itself, its the way its produced through homegenisation and pasteurisation etc. Also the hormones, infective puss from wounds and anti biotics that end up in the cows milk.

Raw milk wouldn't be too bad I doubt, but try and find that anywhere which doesnt cost a fortune, in the UK atleast.

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can anyone give me some scientific papers on hormones/puss/antibiotics in the cows milk in substantial amounts(or at all)? not saying it's not their, just would like some more info. i'm suspecting that if it's correct then the cows beef would have to be worse than milk since the cows would try to protect their young? just speculation....

i ferment my dairy by adding a bit of buttermillk, i've heard theories this may 'unclive' casein and make it more tolerable for more people. i do it cause i like the taste and does seem to digest better for me.

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Almost all people in comparison to the overal population, think that all food today is safe because its on sale, they dont believe that things which could harm you would be on the shelves, (my mum is a typical example).

The unfortunate truth is, the food we eat today is killing us, all diseases and health problems occured (coincidently) when grains were introduced. Grains themselves arent too bad in moderate amounts, but because of lectins, they still shouldnt be included very much. Anyone who thinks this is a stupid idea shows me that they have no idea what lectins are and what effect they have on the human body. I know some people who eat grains in certain parts of the world are healthy, but the rest of their diet is also spot on, and most of the time they arent subjected to all the chemicals most of us are.

Almost all ingredients have been modified in our foods today, whether that be additives, chemicals for growing or treated/heated to kill all enzymes that help us digest food and collect nutrients, and this is why people are dying of disease.

In the same way, milk is not meant for humans, after all the homegenisation and pasteurisation there is nothing left except chemicals and hormones - so much so they actually have to add vitamins to it to make it even slightly beneficial. Even with these additions, the calcium in dairy is actually bad for our bones yet people are brainwashed into thinking its good, because the food industry is all about money, not peoples health.

Great post.

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:wall:

Some people are just so pigheaded. This happens to every milk related thread in here. People can't accept that what they've been consuming all their lives and have been told is so VERY healthy for them, is actually detrimental to their health.

Your loss. :hand:

Everyone who stubbornly refuses to admit that dairy is not evil are pigheaded. Milk was a staple food before dairy had a lobby and became something to hate. In the places where dairy is still farm fresh and unprocessed, people are exceptionally healthy. IT'S NOT LIQUID POISON.

I never said anyone was evil :]

I worded it a little harshly, and that was mostly because I have seen thread after thread turn into a heated debate over dairy.

I don't think that milk is poison. I think that fresh, raw milk and yogurt can be somewhat healthy. But the key word is moderation. I would say any more than one small serving of dairy per day is too much. What we have in common western culture is a society that tells us to eat 3 servings of over-processed, cruelly obtained dairy every day, and THAT, my friends, is EXTREMELY unhealthy.

So there you go.

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i'd be careful with nut milks.. generally high in omega 6 compared to omega 3.. omega 6 has been shown to be a cause of inflammation(and with most 'standard' diets throughout the world it's consumed much more than omega 3 in ratio), while omega 3 is suppose to be the opposite..

i think heated debates on a site like this is pretty silly.. we all just want better skin.. i don't know if dairy is good or bad.. i suspect some people tolerate it really well and some may not.. i've read if gluten is in your diet it can be a bigger problem than if not.. because the gluten is supposed to open the intestine with holes and the casein then proceeds through.. corrections if wrong please.. if you stop eating dairy and your acne stops.. congratulations.. but it's not a be all and end of all of dairy is the key or something like that..

adding something is 'cruelly' obtained doesn't add to the actual argument.. it show more of a religeous/cult like attitude toward it being bad.. any 'cruelty' involved doesn't change whether it is helpful or not helpful to us..

i've been looking around and i've found lots of sites saying dairy has hormones that are just 1 or 2 steps away from dht along with igf.. interesting.. but none of the stuff i found has references.. anyone have any good info with references?

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i've been looking around and i've found lots of sites saying dairy has hormones that are just 1 or 2 steps away from dht along with igf.. interesting..

I'm not sure how accurate a claim that is...it sounds to me like an exaggeration. In any event, I'll mention again that there was a big study a few years ago by some of the top names in the field of dermatolgy that found that a potent 5a-reductase inhibitor (one that inhibits the specific type of 5a-reductase found in sebaceous glands) had no effect on the course of acne. That would appear to refute the idea that DHT (or foods supposedly containing it or promoting it, like milk) has anything to do with acne.

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i'm not sure either of the dairy/hormone claims either.. i have been looking around for substantial info.. but a lot of the sites are literally just word for word copies of other sites.. which makes me wonder..

yeah~ i'm not interested in acne so much.. i have it on my back and shoulders, but i'm pretty much always wearing shirts..(who isn't??hehe) but i have seb derm.. and oily skin on face.. if milk does really increase sebum.. i'd stop it.. but none of the info i found has any reference to their claims.. i'll probably experiment.. unless i noticed major reductions and/or find some hard evidence.. pretty sure i'm gonna stick with dairy..

after reading a lot of your posts about sebum bryan.. i'm prepared to have practically no sebum on my face.. i know before teenage years.. i had awesome skin.. and never noticed any oil.. i see pictures of myself back then.. and i'm so jealous.. of myself..haha not to mention my forearms have really nice skin and i don't use moisterizers on them.. just plain no frills soap.. and my forearms are expsed to more 'wear and tear' than my face.. love my face to be like that..

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There have already been 3 studies associating milk with acne:

High school dietary dairy intake and teenage acne.

We found a positive association with acne for intake of total milk and skim milk. We hypothesize that the association with milk may be because of the presence of hormones and bioactive molecules in milk.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15692464

Milk consumption and acne in adolescent girls.

We found a positive association between intake of milk and acne. This finding supports earlier studies and suggests that the metabolic effects of milk are sufficient to elicit biological responses in consumers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17083856

Milk consumption and acne in teenaged boys.

We found a positive association between intake of skim milk and acne. This finding suggests that skim milk contains hormonal constituents, or factors that influence endogenous hormones, in sufficient quantities to have biological effects in consumers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194824

Edited by Healthoid
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i'd be careful with nut milks.. generally high in omega 6 compared to omega 3.. omega 6 has been shown to be a cause of inflammation(and with most 'standard' diets throughout the world it's consumed much more than omega 3 in ratio), while omega 3 is suppose to be the opposite..

i think heated debates on a site like this is pretty silly.. we all just want better skin.. i don't know if dairy is good or bad.. i suspect some people tolerate it really well and some may not.. i've read if gluten is in your diet it can be a bigger problem than if not.. because the gluten is supposed to open the intestine with holes and the casein then proceeds through.. corrections if wrong please.. if you stop eating dairy and your acne stops.. congratulations.. but it's not a be all and end of all of dairy is the key or something like that..

adding something is 'cruelly' obtained doesn't add to the actual argument.. it show more of a religeous/cult like attitude toward it being bad.. any 'cruelty' involved doesn't change whether it is helpful or not helpful to us..

i've been looking around and i've found lots of sites saying dairy has hormones that are just 1 or 2 steps away from dht along with igf.. interesting.. but none of the stuff i found has references.. anyone have any good info with references?

I just wanted to clarify that I was referring to the milk that is mass produced and sold in general grocery stores, not dairy in general. Not all dairy is cruelly obtained. The milk that is is significantly less healthy than that which is organic and humanely obtained. Perhaps I should have left the "cruel" part of it out, because even though the argument should speak to our consciences, the humanity factor alone has nothing to do with out health.

However, the humanity in which it is obtained and the quality of the milk do go hand in hand.

Sorry if that's confusing, I just didn't want anyone to misunderstand what I said before.

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:wall:

They say that milk has this addictive property in order to get newborns addicted to their mother's milk so they will be well fed in their early years.

It's no wonder people don't want to stop milk, they're junkies, getting high with every drink.

I could actually believe that, especially when it comes to chocolate milk. I was on vacation and asked for chocolate milk, I swear, they gave me a liter! I drank it all. I now have three large (pea-sized) cysts developing on my face. I've been eating well with very minimal sugar in my diet, so I know it had to be the milk, as I originally suspected. My acne was clearing up until I had that tall glass of milk.

Milk just does not agree with me.

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:wall:

I don't think that milk is poison. I think that fresh, raw milk and yogurt can be somewhat healthy. But the key word is moderation. I would say any more than one small serving of dairy per day is too much. What we have in common western culture is a society that tells us to eat 3 servings of over-processed, cruelly obtained dairy every day, and THAT, my friends, is EXTREMELY unhealthy.

I completely agree with this. Drinking close to a liter of chocolate milk as I mentioned in another post gave me three large nodules.

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For all the things milk may not be, it is still a good calcium source Panic. Tastes good too.

Quite the biggest myth by far in this thread...

And I've only read up to here!

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milk is a great source of calcium and phosphourus. you could supplement these things i suppose.

Phosphorus causes kidney stones -- there's a correlation between that and milk consumption.

But, WE were essentially made for THEM. Our bodies are designed to digest, absorb, and utilize such things. That is not the case with milk.

Have you noticed that humans throughout their lifespan become more and more lactose intolerant? We simply did not evolve the required enzymes to break down the milk protein found in milk. Hell, we have our OWN milk and we only need it for temporary nurture. Doctors don't even recommend children consume diary -- as it is associated with child obesity.:liar:

Why do you guys think that milk has to be diluted and cut? :lol:

http://www.notmilk.com/kradjian.html

Cow's milk is for cow's, don't know who's the idiot that began to market it for consumption...oh wait! The multi-billion dollar beef industry.

Edited by Le Cols 20
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Cow's milk is for cow's, don't know who's the idiot that began to market it for consumption...oh wait! The multi-billion dollar beef industry.

My thoughts entirely. The way I see it, Cow's milk is for its calf. I've avoided dairy for longer than I've been Paleo, prob 9 months, I get all the Calcium I need through vegetables, my nails have never been tougher.

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Cow's milk is for cow's, don't know who's the idiot that began to market it for consumption...oh wait! The multi-billion dollar beef industry.

Yes, that makes so much sense. It was the dairy industry, with their time machines, that went back in time and got the Europeans convinced to drink milk, ferment milk into yoghurt and make cheese. Makes so much sense.

Edited by Sahartar
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Cow's milk is for cow's, don't know who's the idiot that began to market it for consumption...oh wait! The multi-billion dollar beef industry.

Yes, that makes so much sense. It was the dairy industry, with their time machines, that went back in time and got the Europeans convinced to drink milk, ferment milk into yoghurt and make cheese. Makes so much sense.

Yes, I'm sure, because back then people had access to Biochemistry journals and had access to dietary data...right? You really don't think industrialized farming has had a serious effect on people's health? Herein lies the problem.

There's a shitload of problems with this, both health-wise and environmental. :wavey:

Edited by Le Cols 20
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For all the things milk may not be, it is still a good calcium source Panic. Tastes good too.

Quite the biggest myth by far in this thread...

???

Is that some kind of joke? Silly me, but I would have thought that everybody knows that milk is an outstanding source of calcium. Its balance of calcium with phosphorous, its lactose content, the lipid profile of its butterfat are all designed to get that calcium into you!

Or did I misunderstand what you were saying, and what you meant is that the biggest "myth" is that milk tastes good? :)

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Cow's milk is for cow's, don't know who's the idiot that began to market it for consumption...oh wait! The multi-billion dollar beef industry.

Really? Do you think it's reasonable to use the fact that cow's milk was originally designed and intended by Nature to be a food for calves, as an argument against its use by another species (humans)? If you think that's reasonable, how do you justify the use of any other food, other than human breast milk? For example, how do you justify the eating of caviar (FISH EGGS, for God's sake) by humans? We could go right down the list of everything we humans eat, testing it for "naturalness" and who that food is supposedly "for", and we'd have similar problems with all of them.

I suggest you give up this silly philosphical idea you have about who a given food is supposedly "for", and simply judge foods by their nutritional content: how good their protein is, how many vitamins and minerals they have, their carbohydrate and fatty acid profiles, etc. Leave philosophy to the philosophers.

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Im beginning to believe less and less that diet has anything to do with Acne. I used to big milk drinker, but stopped years ago. I still have acne in late 30's. Everytime I stop putting chemicals on my face (aka BP, AHA, etc) my acne worsens. So I have been using Dan's regime for years, have very mild acne and eat anything I want.

Elimiated Milk - No difference

Elimated all sugars - no difference

Elimated all Caffeine- no difference

Elimated Dan's regime - big big mistake - more acne

So, eat, drink and be merry! I believe Acne is inherited and based on genetics only.

Edited by nitemare
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Im beginning to believe less and less that diet has anything to do with Acne. I used to big milk drinker, but stopped years ago. I still have acne in late 30's. Everytime I stop putting chemicals on my face (aka BP, AHA, etc) my acne worsens. So I have been using Dan's regime for years, have very mild acne and eat anything I want.

Elimiated Milk - No difference

Elimated all sugars - no difference

Elimated all Caffeine- no difference

Elimated Dan's regime - big big mistake - more acne

So, eat, drink and be merry! I believe Acne is inherited and based on genetics only.

Well, we're all different, but my skin is completely clear using diet alone, so I believe more and more in diet causing acne. If I knew what I do now back when I was 15, 18 yrs ago, life would have been so much different. Sure, genetics have some part to play, especially around puberty, my Mothers side had the skin problems, and I thank her for it lol.

Believe me, if my skin can clear up, anyone's can, at the start of the year I was popping spots on my legs it had spread that badly.

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I'm all for unpasteurized, pasture-fed raw milk. I drink it with no problems. The pasteurized crap is what gives me problems. There are actually lactose intolerant people that can drink raw milk, but not pasteurized. Raw has the enzymes and healthy bacteria that break down the lactose making it more easily digestible.

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Im beginning to believe less and less that diet has anything to do with Acne. I used to big milk drinker, but stopped years ago. I still have acne in late 30's. Everytime I stop putting chemicals on my face (aka BP, AHA, etc) my acne worsens. So I have been using Dan's regime for years, have very mild acne and eat anything I want.

Elimiated Milk - No difference

Elimated all sugars - no difference

Elimated all Caffeine- no difference

Elimated Dan's regime - big big mistake - more acne

So, eat, drink and be merry! I believe Acne is inherited and based on genetics only.

It doesn't matter what you believe, diet most definitely has a physiologic interrelation with the pathogenesis of acne. Thinking that your acne is "caused" by a lack of chemicals on your face is preposterous! Now, that's not to say that Dan's Regimen doesn't "work", it may very well completely eradicate the symptoms of the acneic engine. But it is not addressing the underlying cause of hormonal stimulation and subsequent over-activity of the sebaceous glands, cellular hyperproliferation, etc ... which diet most definitely has an effect on; Hormonal control can definitely be achieved, at least manipulated through diet. We KNOW this.

When I think how long it has taken me, and as strict as I have been with avoiding certain foods, I find it very hard to believe that others have stuck with any specific diets long enough or with enough discipline to achieve results, just because I KNOW how difficult it truly can be. Even now when I slip up for a couple days I can start to see the the acne slowly coming back. But if I go back to my safe, clean diet, it all clears right back up.

I guess it all comes down to what you value more- slathering your face with chemicals and a strict hygienic regimen, but eating whatever you want without acne consequences (but very possibly other health consequences), or being very strict with the food you put in your body, almost socially disruptively so, but not having to worry about if you missed your 7pm chemical bath...

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