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randomdude20

Just got TotalFX, here's the dirt

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31 yr old male, white I think they said skin type 4. Mild acne scars on cheeks and forehead. Just got home from getting the TotalFX done about an hour ago.

Pretty seriously painful for me at a setting of 17, intensity 4 if I remember correctly. It's been about an hour and it feels like the most serious sunburn I've ever had times 3. I had the numbing creme and a Vicadine. Seriously don't skip the Vicadine!

I'm not a fan of Valtrex, Diflucan or the other meds they made me get or the Aquafir so for now I'm skipping them. 38% of people got headaches and 8% of people who took Valtrex had painful menstral periods. The last thing I need as a guy is a painful menstral period! Diflucan can cause large red spots on large portions of the body, not what I'm going for here!!! Here's my self prescribed post-op care instead:

Orally:

Zinc chelate (research shows it helps fight infection and make the skin heal faster)

L-Arganine and Glutamine (found research that shows it helps skin heal faster too)

3 Fish oils a day (normal for me)

2000 IU of Vitamin D. Very important now that I need to stay out of the sun.

My normal morning smoothie with 5 ounces Acai juice, 10 grams chlorella, 10 grams spirulina, 10 grams camu camu with some apple juice and raw honey to make it go down. Super yummy.

2 Grape Seed Extract pills (you guessed it, research shows it helps skin heal faster)

5-10 grams of Vitamin C.

4-5 drops of Miracle Mineral Solution (Chlorine Dioxide) as many times as I can per day. This is the post potent antiviral/bacterial/fungal treatment I know of. I cleared a nasty staph infection in a wound in 10 hours with it.

Topically:

Just mixed up some Manuka Honey UMF Rating of 10+. Very potent antiviral and antibacterial properties. Lots of studies have shown that raw honey speeds up healing time.

Aloe vera gel (99%)

Grape Seed Extract (open up the pills and dumped it in)

This "moisturizer" is a little runny. I may need to use more honey and less aloe, going to play with it over the next few days. Might also add Camu camu which has the highest levels of Vitamin C of any fruit.

It's a shame that I can't drink while I'm healing because I could a strong scotch right now!

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Considering that the Chlorine Dioxide (MMS) I'm taking cleared up a staph infection in 10 hrs and that would take at least 7-10 days on oral antibiotics I'm pretty confident in it as an alternative. There are a lot of people using it to keep genital herpes at bay. I just took my second dose of it. I have the meds here and will take them if I need.

(crap won't let me post a link) go to Pubmed (government run medical search engine) - type in 'Manuka Honey' and hit search. Lots of research that shows how it gets rid of infections and speeds up healing time better than traditional treatments. It is drying out pretty quickly on my face though. Might need to bandage it to keep it on. I've also read about people using manuka honey on acne scars by itself (no laser).

I suggest you rethink the meds. If you get an outbreak of herpes on your face you will scar like crazy. This is coming from someone who empathizes with you on drugs, too.
Edited by randomdude20
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No pain today but I look like I was beaten with a bag of nickels. Mostly just annoying dealing with keeping my skin moisturized. I'm monitoring my temperature for any sign of infection. Totally normal for me between 97.6 and 98.

Lots of oozing but that's to be expected on the first day after the procedure.

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Have to agree with Anti-Em. Swelling should maximize today, and begin subsiding tomorrow. I hope you are not making serious mistakes with your course of self treatment. The supplement industry spins some wonderful tales., and most are being debunked.

Edited by DudleyDoRight
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If anything is being debunked it's the pharmaceutical industry with one scandal after another about withholding data from the FDA to bribes to government officials.

I've been doing extensive research on Pubmed and am basing my treatment on published clinical data. Drugs rarely cure anything, they are primarily about symptom management.

The FDA approved manuka honey as a treatment for burn victims in 2007 and has been known to clear up MRSA infections when nothing else will. A study published last week showed decreased healing times for dermal injuries with coconut oil.

Aquafir has no healing properties. There are no chemicals in it to stimulate growth. Nothing in it to fight infection or stimulate the immune system.

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If you continuously use the manuka honey it will strip your skin, I used it quite a bit for awhile and ended up peeling alot. Honey can be slightly acidic. Maybe it will work well for you, but just wanted to let you know. Also pure aloe can be problematic for some people. I think aquafor is recommended because there is generally no bad reactions with it and it does heal. Sometimes you don't want to many active things in your topicals while healing, it will just prolong the journey.

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This Day 2: inflammation is definitely down today. I can now see individual red dots instead of just overall redness. I also look less like a chipmunk.

I'm using coconut oil about half the time because it drips less. I'll keep an eye on the manuka honey but I like it so far, thanks for the feedback. I've noticed one side effect, my dog wants to lick my face.

Here's an excerpt from a study that came out this week on virgin coconut oil out of an Indian University.

"Results: VCO-treated wounds healed much faster, as indicated by a decreased time of complete epithelization and higher levels of various skin components. Pepsin-soluble collagen showed a significant increase in VCO- treated wounds, indicating a higher collagen cross-linking. Glycohydrolase activities were also found to be increased due to a higher turnover of collagen. Antioxidant enzyme activities, and reduced glutathione and malondialdehyde levels were found to be increased on the 10th day after wounding, which were found to have returned to normal levels on day 14 in the treated wounds. The lipid peroxide levels were found to be lower in the treated wounds. A histopathological study showed an increase in fibroblast proliferation and neovascularization in VCO-treated wounds compared to controls. Conclusion: The beneficial effect of VCO can be attributed to the cumulative effect of various biologically active minor components present in it. "

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I'm doing a significant amount of research and presenting scientifically backed information in the hopes that it will help people on here going through a similar issue that I am, however it appears to be falling on def ears.

I no longer have the inclination to continue. Good luck to everyone. I'm out.

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I'm doing a significant amount of research and presenting scientifically backed information in the hopes that it will help people on here going through a similar issue that I am, however it appears to be falling on def ears.

I no longer have the inclination to continue. Good luck to everyone. I'm out.

Please continue to post! I'm hopeful for your results and several of us are interested in alternative healing treatments, post laser. I personally had an allergic reaction to aquaphor following a microlaser peel.

Don't give up on the rest of us!

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Sassy, why do you need alternative medicine when you have real medicine that is making huge strides in treating all kinds of ailments? Why do people believe Snake Oil salesmen instead of facts? I find this atitude simply amazing

Ignoring real science in favor of pseudo-science is endangering many children.

http://www.thinktwice.com/autism.htm

That sounds convincing until you get into the real science.

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html

This chap although totally discredited, is making the talk show circuit, spreading his lies. I expect to see him on Oprah soon, and then more children will die because they are not vaccinated.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7134893.ece

How the Dietary Supplement

Health and Education Act of 1994

Weakened the FDA

http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/dshea.html

Edited by DudleyDoRight
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Please don't misconstrue my intentions. I've vaccinated both of my children and take prescription medication. I also see medical doctors for annual checkups. However, I don't think we should shut down other people's attempts at healing themselves in a combination approach (approaches from both medical and holistic communities). I don't personally believe that only the scientific community has the answers to the world's ills, nor does the homeopathic community. Science has also proven that accupuncture, once thought to be "quack" medicine, is a superior pain relief treatment as opposed to traditional prescription pain killers.

I simply hate to see a person quit posting their results from a treatment because other people are questioning his/her approach to post operative care.

I'm going to be kind here and respond to your comment by stating that I don't believe in "Snake Oil Salesmen" and that my attitude and beliefs should not be found "amazing", but simply a viewing things from an alternative point of view.

My Mother in Law is a doctor and I'm a trained Speech Language Pathologist, so I'm very well versed in the strides that modern medical research has gained in providing better health for our communities. I just would like to remain open-minded to other approaches.

Thank you and I pray you have great health and healing :)

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I'm quite familiar with quackwatch and this is not the forum to discuss that website. I've read through just about every word from the FDA on DSHEA. I own a supplement company and am quite familiar with FDA regulations such as 21 CFR, etc, etc. I am not going to mention my company by name because I'm sure I'll be accused of being biased or trying to push products (none of which I sell relate to this topic anyways). I also wish to keep my business and personal issues separate. I spend at least 15-20 hrs per week reading clinic trials, talking to doctors, studying biological pathways, etc, etc. I only formulate and sell using ingredients that have scientific data behind them, period.

If I'm going to stick around (and am considering it after sassy74's comment) I would appreciate it if my thread is not hijacked.

I made the personal choice to find a natural alternative to what my doctor wanted me to take. If you disagree with that I completely respect that decision, but please post your comments about it under your own thread, not here. I'm a big boy and don't need to be lectured on my choice.

The discussion I would like to have for those interested in participating is to investigate ingredients that can help accelerate healing. I've being doing most of my research on Pubmed. I can't post the link because I'm a new member but it's easy to find on Google.

Aquaphor seems to work mostly by keeping the area moist. It does contain Bisabolol, which is a naturally occuring chemical that has antibacterial and anti-inflammatory properties but because it's the last ingredient listed there isn't very much of it. There's also a number of reported causes of people breaking out from it, most likely because it's petrolium based and is clogging pores. This also leads me to believe that it's not a very strong antibacterial/fungal since acne bacteria is able to grow and doctors find it necessary to prescribe oral drugs to fight possible infections.

In my opinion the best possible combination of ingredients both orally and topically would accomplish the following:

1) Fight infection (I like MMS but there are lots of other options)

2) Boost collagen production

3) Boost angiogenesis so that new blood vessels are made to bring in extra nutrients, etc.

4) Reduce cortisol. Cortisol is a stress hormone and can slow the healing process. Looking at your jacked up face after having the procedure is stressful.

5) Physically protect and moisturize the damaged skin.

6) Boost antioxidant levels in the skin since studies have shown that antioxidants are reduced immediately following a wound.

7) Boost growth hormone

During the initial phase of wound healing, immune cells are rushed to the wound site to protect against infection. Free radicals are used (that's basically how MMS works) to fight bacteria and to dispose of dead tissue. Once the free radicals have accomplished their job, however, they must be neutralized so the actual healing process can begin. Superoxide dismutase (SOD) and other antioxidants such as vitamin C and E stop the free-radical oxidation process and promote the healing and repair process itself. Certain antioxidants are depleted by as much as 70% following injury.

The latest ingredient that looks promising is one I've experimented with in the past, N-Acetyl Cysteine. NAC is traditionally used in hospitals as the only treatment for Tylenol poisoning. It is also useful for strengthening and detoxing the liver.

Here's an excerpt from a study I found on NAC in wound healing.

"Conclusions. A mouse model of incisional wound treated with NAC resulted in lower levels of tissue oxidative stress, higher levels of tissue glutathione, and downregulation of iNOS expression coupled with upregulation of VEGF expression, producing an overall favourable clinical outcome of higher WBS and a shorter wound-healing period both in diabetic and nondiabetic mice. Both antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties of NAC may be involved in this improved healing process for incisional wounds. "

Another study showed that NAC can boost SOD levels, so it's possible there is a 1-2 punch from taking NAC for wound healing. The trouble with SOD is that it's difficult to supplement because from what I've read it's broken down in the stomach.

I believe the combination of Manuka Honey and Coconut oil will help fight infection on the skin and moisturize and protect it. MMS will internally fight infection. Additional Vitamin C either from Ascorbic Acid supplementation or preferably from a food course like Camu Camu will boost collagen levels. L-Arganine and L-Glutamine help boost Growth Hormone. Grape Seed Extract will help with antioxidant levels at the skin though this may be more important for later stage healing since at first we want to oxidize any infections.

I'm keeping my oral intake of MMS (oxidizer) and antioxidants apart by at least an hour. If I don't they will cancel each other out.

Cissus Quadrangularis is an herb I've played with for a while. It's comparable to ibuprofen as a pain killer in one study but also looks to be able to bring down stress related cortisol increases.

That's all I've got for the moment. Hopefully someone will make use of this information.

Edited by randomdude20
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Sassy, your prime example Accuppuncture has been blown so far out of the water in double blind studies that it may never land.

"The pain-relieving effects of acupuncture with penetrating and non-penetrating needles are largely the same, Japanese researchers say.

In Tuesday's issue of the online journal Open Medicine, researchers described the first double-blind study, the gold standard in clinical research, of acupuncture.

"Needle penetration did not confer a specific analgesic advantage over non-penetrating (placebo) needle application," Nobuari Takakura and Hiroyosi Yajima of Tokyo Ariake University of Medical and Health Sciences concluded in the journal."

In simple terms accupuncture is all smoke and mirrors. Chasing these quack cures distracts people from seeking real medical attention. Don't worry, people will not listen to reason. It is a proven fact that people accept anecdotal evidence over scientific proof almost every time.

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I actually think kids are way over vaccinated.

I am not a big fan of meds, but realize they are sometimes necessary and lifesaving. My post was just to express concern of getting herpes from the procedure -- seems to happen in ablative lasers sometimes and it's very disfiguring if it does.

The manuka honey seems fine, but like someone else I was concerned it could be exfoliating. Wasn't sure, but thought I read that in my research of manuka, but since I was unsure I said nothing.

Anyway, don't want to hijack, but just wanted to say that alternative meds are also good sometimes, but so are traditional meds and the OP should do what he thinks best.

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There's good anecdotal evidence that MMS can "cure" herpes. Cure is probably the wrong word. Many people who start using larger doses have gone long periods of time without any flare-ups. That is far from a controlled study so take it for what it's worth. A test would probably still show them as positive since they still have the antibodies. The side effects for Valtrex were unacceptable to me, especially when I have what appears to be a decent alternative that I have first hand experience with.

Like I mentioned before the FDA approved Manuka honey for treating burn victims back in 2007. I find it soothing, I'm using an UMF of 10. It's possible higher UMF ratings could have that effect, I'm not sure but it seems to be working for me. I'm on Day 3 and my scabs are starting to fall off now and there is pink skin underneath. Also I used a Manuka Honey that had a rating of 20, but it was from hydrogen peroxide, not UMF for the last month before the procedure with Camu camu (high Vitamin C) mixed in. It was not exfoliating and did help prevent breakouts when I used it.

I have some spots that are healing much more slowly. My treatment was pretty aggressive, especially on the forehead and between the eyes. I was going mostly for acne scars on the cheeks but figured while they're at it might as well knock out the forehead lines. For DeepFX it was 17 mj at Density 4. That's pretty close to full CO2 in a full spots.

I've been taking pictures at the same time/place/lighting, etc each morning since the procedure. I'll probably keep taking them for about 2 weeks. I may post them. My doctor took professional before pictures and will take some after in another month or two.

Here's some more info on how Manuka Honey works.

UMF Manuka Honey can assist wound healing because:

1. Antibacterial and rapidly clears infecting bacteria, including antibiotic-resistant strains. UMF Manuka Honey has both the hydrogen peroxide property common to most honeys and the more powerful UMF antibacterial property. These two properties together are believed to have a synergistic effect enhancing the effectiveness of each other.

2. UMF antibacterial property can diffuse deeply into skin tissues, so that it can reach deep-seated infections. The hydrogen peroxide property cannot penetrate tissues.

3. The glucose oxidase enzyme which produces hydrogen peroxide needs oxygen, but the phytochemical UMF does not. So it could remain effective even when smothered by wound dressings or in wound cavities.

4. Cleans wounds. Honey has a debriding effect. The osmotic effect of honey lifts dirt out of the wound bed.

5. Dressings do not stick to the surface of the wound allowing easy removal of dressings. The osmotic effect of the honey keeps the wound moist, clean and prevents the dressing sticking to the wound. Tissue damage and pain are reduced when dressings are changed as there is no tearing away of newly formed tissue. Healing is more rapid.

6. Reduces scarring. The honey draws body fluids and nutrients to the wound area and so assists cell growth and prevents a scar forming as the wound is kept moist. Honey provides nutrients (vitamins, minerals and amino acids) to tissues.

7. Promotes more rapid healing because the honey stimulates tissue regeneration.

* Angiogenesis is stimulated new blood vessel growth giving oxygen and nutrients to the tissues.

* Fibroblast growth is stimulated by hydrogen peroxide.

* Epithelial cell growth is stimulated these cells grow level with the skin so that no scab is formed and so no scarring and hypertrophication.

8. Acidity of honey releases oxygen from haemoglobin new growing cells need oxygen. Honey stimulates the white blood cells.

9. Hydrogen peroxide in honey has an insulin-like effect and promotes wound healing. Insulin is a growth hormone.

10. Anti-inflammatory action of honey soothes and promotes healing, reduces pain and swelling

11. Honey forms a protective barrier to prevent cross-infection of wounds.

12. Honey removes malodour from wounds by killing the bacteria which produce ammonia

13. Honey does not damage the surrounding tissue

14. Honey minimizes the need for grafting

The manuka honey seems fine, but like someone else I was concerned it could be exfoliating. Wasn't sure, but thought I read that in my research of manuka, but since I was unsure I said nothing.
Edited by randomdude20
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Random, it was I who hijacked this thread, so returning to the original posting, how is the healing going? I have a tendancy to get on my soap box.

Edited by DudleyDoRight
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hey random, thanks for the post. i just had my 3rd total fx done yesterday, and i really appreciate what you've been writing. cuz i had a little scare last night myself. the first 2 times i did total fx, i was given a petroluem-based dressing that i had to use for 3-4 days. i really hated that stuff. it made me drip all over for 3 days and it started to stink after a while. i also hated it b/c it was so thick that i thought, man if i have any microbes on my face, that stuff will just seal them in! AND moisture, which will help them even more! i dreaded that stuff. anyway, this time around, i was given the option of that or a different cream, so i chose the cream. it's calendula cream (homeopathic stuff).

i used it, and there was NO mess whatsoever. i actaully started to worry b/c i was so used to my skin dripping horribly (and i mean BAD) from the other 2 times that i thought maybe i wasn't putting enough on. so i caked it on, but then i realized i'd run out before the 3 days! and i didn't want to go out in public, but thought maybe i'd have to run to walgreens to get some petroleum jelly. but then i looked up petroleum jelly and in uk someone credible recommended that the makers of petroleum jelly NOT claim that it can be used for burns. then i thought about the petroleum-based dressing that i absolutely hated, and now i'm fine w/ this calendula cream.

i concluded (though i could be wrong) that petroluem-based dressings and my calendula cream work by 2 different mechanisms. petroleum hopes to create a seal, a barrier, which prevents pathogens from reaching your skin. unfortunately, you have to clean your skin, then put the petroleum back on. but if you don't have perfect aseptic technique when cleaning (which we don't), we run the risk of actually sealing those microbes (and water) onto our face! now for THAT, i can see why they prescribe the anti-bac/viral/fungal. but i read one (credible) source and they said that that method (closed method) is either all or nothing; either commit fully to the occlusive dressing, or just leave the face fully exposed. THEN, the calendula mechanism is one of an antioxidant, which i think is probably similar to your approach. i was worried last night, only cuz it was new to me. now, i feel fine about it. i don't need to cake my face all the time w/ it, because it's not sealing away microbes; it's killing them. of couse, i still apply about every 4 hours.

anyway, thanks for your postings. hope you heal well!

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I'm doing a significant amount of research and presenting scientifically backed information in the hopes that it will help people on here going through a similar issue that I am, however it appears to be falling on def ears.

I no longer have the inclination to continue. Good luck to everyone. I'm out.

Hi Random, Please dont stop posting the stuff you have and are continuing to research. I find it incredibly helpful. The healing of wounds is of paramount importance to me and I am grateful.

I did not experience any of your posts as a medical vs holistic argument . Ann-marie

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