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ohwowlovely

My Dry-Needling Experience

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So i'm curious, why are some people advising against keeping the area moist, for example with vasaline.

I'm really curious where this logic comes from. Can someone provide a medical publication saying that leaving the area basically dry improves healing?

Scabbing is obviously the way nature keeps dirt and debris out, and also stops the bleeding. But since we can do that other ways, I don't think it's the ideal way to let it heal. The way I always understood it was... when you have major scab on top, it holds down the new surface, forming it in irregular ways, and that's what ultimately can make it bumpy. Which makes sense to me. There's been times I tore scabs off cuts, and the scab part was actually down in there, like putting plaster in a hole. Except that's dead material, so you pull it out later, and you've just got a big hole where the skin didn't grow. Personally, I think that's the way most of the initial scars happen as well... You've got dried up hard material stuck in there that the skin grows back around, and there's your scar. There's basically a portion of skin missing. That's why I kind of have a hard time with the whole "bound down" scar tissue theory... but many people seem to think that does happen.

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So i'm curious, why are some people advising against keeping the area moist, for example with vasaline.

I'm really curious where this logic comes from. Can someone provide a medical publication saying that leaving the area basically dry improves healing?

Scabbing is obviously the way nature keeps dirt and debris out, and also stops the bleeding. But since we can do that other ways, I don't think it's the ideal way to let it heal. The way I always understood it was... when you have major scab on top, it holds down the new surface, forming it in irregular ways, and that's what ultimately can make it bumpy. Which makes sense to me. There's been times I tore scabs off cuts, and the scab part was actually down in there, like putting plaster in a hole. Except that's dead material, so you pull it out later, and you've just got a big hole where the skin didn't grow. Personally, I think that's the way most of the initial scars happen as well... You've got dried up hard material stuck in there that the skin grows back around, and there's your scar. There's basically a portion of skin missing. That's why I kind of have a hard time with the whole "bound down" scar tissue theory... but many people seem to think that does happen.

interesting theory. so are you saying its good to let a scab form, or are you saying its better to keep it moist so this "dirt" comes out of the hole?

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I'm saying I think it's bad. The skin grows around the hard scab material and creates irregular skin. If you take the infected pore to begin with... It drains, but often there is a shaft of hardened material left in the core. The skin repairs itself around that, then you've got your typical ice-pick. And the same thing can happen to varying degrees with scab material, depending on how far down the scab goes. I've never seen this explained anywhere, but it seems like that's what is happening.

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hi dave

i am missing the point here.

so are you saying it's best to keep the area moist, i.e. with vaseline/moisturiser to AVOID a scar, or to keep it dry whilst its healing???

thank you

Honey

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Hi, when I had a dermabrasion years ago, I was told to keep the area moist with ointment and not allow it to scab. It worked. This was done by a plastic surgeon. Not to be confused with a 'micro-dermabrasion". My skin looked similar to a peeled tomato for about a week. I swabbed with q-tips going sideways to remove dead skin but still allowed the skin to remain moist.

He recommended that I use bicinactrin ointment to be specific. I didn't have deep scars but one ice pic which was made shallower and some enlarged or scarred pores and a few shallow scars which were virtually eliminated. It would seem this (dry needling) procedure would be similar to a dermabrasion since they are abrading the surface skin and allowing it to heal.

I also had another spot dermabrasion (dermatologist this time performed) on that same ice pic which was now a rolling scar. This time they were using a "new" scar sheet and it did not work. My skin scabbed up and it did nothing. I would suggest keeping this type of area moist for healing. It seems to yield better results.

Edited by stillwishing
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I think you are looking improved! Hoping this filling sticks around for you, since you're scars were not deep I bet you do get a good improvement!

Regarding the keeping moist argument, personally I think if you have good skin that has been injured you should keep moist, but when injuring scarred areas it may depend of the treatment. I think you could let small areas scab because the scab is pulling all that scar tissue together, tighter, where vaseline won't pull it together tighter. When doing large areas I think you should moisturize, but little individual areas on already damaged tissue I can see where one might say let it scab.

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Okay, so it's the eve of Day 21 and I have a picture update.

Overall, it's good news...I think. My left cheek I am very happy with and my right cheek is getting there (I might have to needle it individually later on...although, maybe not because those copper peptides are some pretty awesome stuff and I'm hoping they'll be able to help me out some more in the coming weeks).

It is my general feeling that the needling alone would not have been enough to give me the results I wanted. I have been using the super cop 2x spot treatment on the scars that I found most visible every night for the past 21 days and, even though it burns like nobody's business, I think that is what has made all the difference. I mean, it could just be my perception, but that's what I feel is making things so much better so soon.

I'm still pink on the left cheek and red on the other. I don't know if this is because the scars on the right cheek were deeper and so were needled more aggressively or because all of the Copper Peptide I put on it is slowing down the healing process...I can't wait for the redness to fade some more.

Also, I did my best at matching angles and lighting, but it's not perfect by any means...I'll try harder the next time.

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post-119854-1267765775_thumb.jpg

post-119854-1267765808_thumb.jpg

post-119854-1267766093_thumb.jpg

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Okay, so it's the eve of Day 21 and I have a picture update.

Overall, it's good news...I think. My left cheek I am very happy with and my right cheek is getting there (I might have to needle it individually later on...although, maybe not because those copper peptides are some pretty awesome stuff and I'm hoping they'll be able to help me out some more in the coming weeks).

It is my general feeling that the needling alone would not have been enough to give me the results I wanted. I have been using the super cop 2x spot treatment on the scars that I found most visible every night for the past 21 days and, even though it burns like nobody's business, I think that is what has made all the difference. I mean, it could just be my perception, but that's what I feel is making things so much better so soon.

I'm still pink on the left cheek and red on the other. I don't know if this is because the scars on the right cheek were deeper and so were needled more aggressively or because all of the Copper Peptide I put on it is slowing down the healing process...I can't wait for the redness to fade some more.

Also, I did my best at matching angles and lighting, but it's not perfect by any means...I'll try harder the next time.

post-119854-1267766093_thumb.jpg

post-119854-1267765760_thumb.jpg

post-119854-1267765775_thumb.jpg

post-119854-1267766093_thumb.jpg

Hey your left cheek does look good. However, there is some brusing still which is indicitive of micro-swelling. so please keep the updates coming, as the swelling goes away in the next two-3 weeks.

Also could you tell me what type of copper peptides you use, and where you purchased from

thanks a bunch!

And I hope Your skin continues to improves!!!

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Thanks! I hope it improves too.

I've been using the Super Cop 2X spot treatment and I ordered it from the Skinbiology website (the Canadian division because I pay less shipping that way). I ordered it as part of the Acne Scar reduction kit, but that's basically the only item in the kit that I am using so far.

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Still kind of hard to tell with the redness, but it does look like it's healing well at least. There's a person on the skin biology site that claims they have taken their scars down considerably, using repeated peels and some of their products. So far I haven't noticed anything at all. I've even been putting the 2x on a couple skin tags, and it hasn't done anything to them.

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O.W.L. you are a brave soul. A brave lady.

Did you ever go out, go to work, school during the down-time?! I can't imagine myself walking outside my neighborhood with my cheeks like that swollen and red :(

How did you do it? Or was it during vacation?

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lol. Thanks. I always freak out after I do these things myself, so it might actually be more stupidity than bravery that guides me, but I'll take the compliment lol.

It was during a 10 day stretch of vacation that I had. I did not leave the house at all during those 10 days and I don't think a person can unless they want everyone gawking at them wondering what the heck they've done to their face. I was scabbed until the 5th day. On the 10th day, I had to go to work so I wore a lot of foundation/sunscreen and it covered the redness up enough to make me look I had acne that I was trying to conceal (which I don't mind so much).

Mostly, I had to suck it up for the first 2 weeks of redness/swelling/scabs and tell myself I didn't care what people thought now because in a few weeks it would be gone and they'd all forget they ever saw anything in the first place...

Now, 4 weeks later, it is still noticeably pink without make-up, but only mildly discolored with make-up...

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Hey I just read this whole thread and am curious as to how you are doing now 2 weeks after your last post???

Did the swelling subside and did the scabs fall off? Id like to see how you are doing now.

Cheers

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Hey girl,

Wow, your skin has come such a long way! I hope you continue to see improvement! I have thought about doing a procedure like this, but the little tiny bit of scarring I have doesn't come close to warranting it. That being said, please don't take to heart any of the comments made by people who say you should just "deal" with the scarring you have, as it isn't bad. Guess what? If it bothers you, it's your right to do whatever you wish to improve your skin. I've had people make the same comments to me; "What? I can't even see your few little scars! Get over it." Or, my personal favorite: "What? You just have to be absolutely perfect?" Uh, excuse me, but if I want to improve myself, I'm going to fricking do it. If it bothers me, and I WANT to fix it, then encourage me. Don't throw me under the bus.

I do peels (at home), and some performed by a wonderful gal here local who has some amazing products and great talent in improving the skin with natural, organic products. I also have a derma stamp that I started using, and it does improve the skin a little. I'm upgrading to a longer needle length next time I order, but it all helps. :)

By the way, in the picture where "we" can see your eyes - they are beautiful. I'm certain people get so lost in those, that they don't even notice your little scars.

Have you ever looked up MyChelle Dermaceuticals? They have some great holistic products. I use a few of their serums and peels, on top of Dan's regimen. It keeps my skin looking better than it has in years... i.e. I can walk outside without makeup on. :)

Good luck!

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I'm predicting her scars have improved but still not as much as she wanted. Judging from the pics from a couple weeks ago her scars have improved a bit from her dry needling treatment and as the weeks roll by the collagen will kick in and start forming progressively throughout the weeks. She's probably pretty happy with her results, but for optimum results (and who knows since her scars are shallow, they may eventually dissappear besides a slight indention for 1 or 2 of her deeper scars) she would have to repeat this needling process several more times. Once she's done this procedure several more times I honestly think her scars would be almost gone since they are all so shallow, the only signs of scaring she would have left is a slight indention or two from the deeper scars. That's my two cents since my scars are very similar in that they also are shallow, and I'm treating them with a derma stamp, hope you keep us updated and congrats!

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I'm predicting her scars have improved but still not as much as she wanted. Judging from the pics from a couple weeks ago her scars have improved a bit from her dry needling treatment and as the weeks roll by the collagen will kick in and start forming progressively throughout the weeks. She's probably pretty happy with her results, but for optimum results (and who knows since her scars are shallow, they may eventually dissappear besides a slight indention for 1 or 2 of her deeper scars) she would have to repeat this needling process several more times. Once she's done this procedure several more times I honestly think her scars would be almost gone since they are all so shallow, the only signs of scaring she would have left is a slight indention or two from the deeper scars. That's my two cents since my scars are very similar in that they also are shallow, and I'm treating them with a derma stamp, hope you keep us updated and congrats!

what about those of us who have slight indentation? Can needling completely get rid of these?

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I'm predicting her scars have improved but still not as much as she wanted. Judging from the pics from a couple weeks ago her scars have improved a bit from her dry needling treatment and as the weeks roll by the collagen will kick in and start forming progressively throughout the weeks. She's probably pretty happy with her results, but for optimum results (and who knows since her scars are shallow, they may eventually dissappear besides a slight indention for 1 or 2 of her deeper scars) she would have to repeat this needling process several more times. Once she's done this procedure several more times I honestly think her scars would be almost gone since they are all so shallow, the only signs of scaring she would have left is a slight indention or two from the deeper scars. That's my two cents since my scars are very similar in that they also are shallow, and I'm treating them with a derma stamp, hope you keep us updated and congrats!

what about those of us who have slight indentation? Can needling completely get rid of these?

There are no guarentees obviously but I think so if you treat it often enough and not too intensely the slight indentations can completely disappear. That's how my system works, the shallower the scar, the better the chance of it completely disappearing. I've been dermastamping for not that long and my shallow boxcar scar is rapidly reducing in length, and yes i've passed the micro swelling stage. Time, i recommend you use a 1mm derma roller (if you have rough looking skin throughout your problem areas) or a 1mm derma stamp (this is very useful in targeting individual areas). Why 1mm? Well if you only have slight indentation (which im guessing is less than 1mm) then the 1mm stamp or roller should do you fine and if you constantly keep up treatment (i'd say you should stamp once every two weeks or maybe every week, but with only moderate intensity compared to stamping every month with intense power) your indents would probably disappear 6 months+ after starting your initial treatment plan, with good aftercare, you wouldn't have to deal with new scars either.

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I'm predicting her scars have improved but still not as much as she wanted. Judging from the pics from a couple weeks ago her scars have improved a bit from her dry needling treatment and as the weeks roll by the collagen will kick in and start forming progressively throughout the weeks. She's probably pretty happy with her results, but for optimum results (and who knows since her scars are shallow, they may eventually dissappear besides a slight indention for 1 or 2 of her deeper scars) she would have to repeat this needling process several more times. Once she's done this procedure several more times I honestly think her scars would be almost gone since they are all so shallow, the only signs of scaring she would have left is a slight indention or two from the deeper scars. That's my two cents since my scars are very similar in that they also are shallow, and I'm treating them with a derma stamp, hope you keep us updated and congrats!

what about those of us who have slight indentation? Can needling completely get rid of these?

There are no guarentees obviously but I think so if you treat it often enough and not too intensely the slight indentations can completely disappear. That's how my system works, the shallower the scar, the better the chance of it completely disappearing. I've been dermastamping for not that long and my shallow boxcar scar is rapidly reducing in length, and yes i've passed the micro swelling stage. Time, i recommend you use a 1mm derma roller (if you have rough looking skin throughout your problem areas) or a 1mm derma stamp (this is very useful in targeting individual areas). Why 1mm? Well if you only have slight indentation (which im guessing is less than 1mm) then the 1mm stamp or roller should do you fine and if you constantly keep up treatment (i'd say you should stamp once every two weeks or maybe every week, but with only moderate intensity compared to stamping every month with intense power) your indents would probably disappear 6 months+ after starting your initial treatment plan, with good aftercare, you wouldn't have to deal with new scars either.

well, one area where i want to treat is my forehead. I have one actual indent (a saucer actually, or an IEXTREMELY shallow boxcar). I also have like literally a pinhead hole, but im nots ure if this is an acne scar, or if the discoloration makes it look pitted.

Does dermastamp help rough skin (not just scars), in general as well?

Or should i got the retinoid route

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I'm predicting her scars have improved but still not as much as she wanted. Judging from the pics from a couple weeks ago her scars have improved a bit from her dry needling treatment and as the weeks roll by the collagen will kick in and start forming progressively throughout the weeks. She's probably pretty happy with her results, but for optimum results (and who knows since her scars are shallow, they may eventually dissappear besides a slight indention for 1 or 2 of her deeper scars) she would have to repeat this needling process several more times. Once she's done this procedure several more times I honestly think her scars would be almost gone since they are all so shallow, the only signs of scaring she would have left is a slight indention or two from the deeper scars. That's my two cents since my scars are very similar in that they also are shallow, and I'm treating them with a derma stamp, hope you keep us updated and congrats!

what about those of us who have slight indentation? Can needling completely get rid of these?

There are no guarentees obviously but I think so if you treat it often enough and not too intensely the slight indentations can completely disappear. That's how my system works, the shallower the scar, the better the chance of it completely disappearing. I've been dermastamping for not that long and my shallow boxcar scar is rapidly reducing in length, and yes i've passed the micro swelling stage. Time, i recommend you use a 1mm derma roller (if you have rough looking skin throughout your problem areas) or a 1mm derma stamp (this is very useful in targeting individual areas). Why 1mm? Well if you only have slight indentation (which im guessing is less than 1mm) then the 1mm stamp or roller should do you fine and if you constantly keep up treatment (i'd say you should stamp once every two weeks or maybe every week, but with only moderate intensity compared to stamping every month with intense power) your indents would probably disappear 6 months+ after starting your initial treatment plan, with good aftercare, you wouldn't have to deal with new scars either.

well, one area where i want to treat is my forehead. I have one actual indent (a saucer actually, or an IEXTREMELY shallow boxcar). I also have like literally a pinhead hole, but im nots ure if this is an acne scar, or if the discoloration makes it look pitted.

Does dermastamp help rough skin (not just scars), in general as well?

Or should i got the retinoid route

as long as you don't stamp too often, it should help rough skin too. But I would just stick with the retinoids maybe, you can try test stamping a certain patch of skin thats rough every two weeks and see if it has any effects. If you like the results, heck go for it!

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Guest Timehealsall
I'm predicting her scars have improved but still not as much as she wanted. Judging from the pics from a couple weeks ago her scars have improved a bit from her dry needling treatment and as the weeks roll by the collagen will kick in and start forming progressively throughout the weeks. She's probably pretty happy with her results, but for optimum results (and who knows since her scars are shallow, they may eventually dissappear besides a slight indention for 1 or 2 of her deeper scars) she would have to repeat this needling process several more times. Once she's done this procedure several more times I honestly think her scars would be almost gone since they are all so shallow, the only signs of scaring she would have left is a slight indention or two from the deeper scars. That's my two cents since my scars are very similar in that they also are shallow, and I'm treating them with a derma stamp, hope you keep us updated and congrats!

what about those of us who have slight indentation? Can needling completely get rid of these?

There are no guarentees obviously but I think so if you treat it often enough and not too intensely the slight indentations can completely disappear. That's how my system works, the shallower the scar, the better the chance of it completely disappearing. I've been dermastamping for not that long and my shallow boxcar scar is rapidly reducing in length, and yes i've passed the micro swelling stage. Time, i recommend you use a 1mm derma roller (if you have rough looking skin throughout your problem areas) or a 1mm derma stamp (this is very useful in targeting individual areas). Why 1mm? Well if you only have slight indentation (which im guessing is less than 1mm) then the 1mm stamp or roller should do you fine and if you constantly keep up treatment (i'd say you should stamp once every two weeks or maybe every week, but with only moderate intensity compared to stamping every month with intense power) your indents would probably disappear 6 months+ after starting your initial treatment plan, with good aftercare, you wouldn't have to deal with new scars either.

well, one area where i want to treat is my forehead. I have one actual indent (a saucer actually, or an IEXTREMELY shallow boxcar). I also have like literally a pinhead hole, but im nots ure if this is an acne scar, or if the discoloration makes it look pitted.

Does dermastamp help rough skin (not just scars), in general as well?

Or should i got the retinoid route

as long as you don't stamp too often, it should help rough skin too. But I would just stick with the retinoids maybe, you can try test stamping a certain patch of skin thats rough every two weeks and see if it has any effects. If you like the results, heck go for it!

just wondering.. but does rough skin have scar tissue to it?

I mean i really just want to stamp/needle ONE SCAR, that is on a part of my face which doesnt both me too much. So i can see how it goes without the risks..

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I'm predicting her scars have improved but still not as much as she wanted. Judging from the pics from a couple weeks ago her scars have improved a bit from her dry needling treatment and as the weeks roll by the collagen will kick in and start forming progressively throughout the weeks. She's probably pretty happy with her results, but for optimum results (and who knows since her scars are shallow, they may eventually dissappear besides a slight indention for 1 or 2 of her deeper scars) she would have to repeat this needling process several more times. Once she's done this procedure several more times I honestly think her scars would be almost gone since they are all so shallow, the only signs of scaring she would have left is a slight indention or two from the deeper scars. That's my two cents since my scars are very similar in that they also are shallow, and I'm treating them with a derma stamp, hope you keep us updated and congrats!

what about those of us who have slight indentation? Can needling completely get rid of these?

There are no guarentees obviously but I think so if you treat it often enough and not too intensely the slight indentations can completely disappear. That's how my system works, the shallower the scar, the better the chance of it completely disappearing. I've been dermastamping for not that long and my shallow boxcar scar is rapidly reducing in length, and yes i've passed the micro swelling stage. Time, i recommend you use a 1mm derma roller (if you have rough looking skin throughout your problem areas) or a 1mm derma stamp (this is very useful in targeting individual areas). Why 1mm? Well if you only have slight indentation (which im guessing is less than 1mm) then the 1mm stamp or roller should do you fine and if you constantly keep up treatment (i'd say you should stamp once every two weeks or maybe every week, but with only moderate intensity compared to stamping every month with intense power) your indents would probably disappear 6 months+ after starting your initial treatment plan, with good aftercare, you wouldn't have to deal with new scars either.

well, one area where i want to treat is my forehead. I have one actual indent (a saucer actually, or an IEXTREMELY shallow boxcar). I also have like literally a pinhead hole, but im nots ure if this is an acne scar, or if the discoloration makes it look pitted.

Does dermastamp help rough skin (not just scars), in general as well?

Or should i got the retinoid route

as long as you don't stamp too often, it should help rough skin too. But I would just stick with the retinoids maybe, you can try test stamping a certain patch of skin thats rough every two weeks and see if it has any effects. If you like the results, heck go for it!

just wondering.. but does rough skin have scar tissue to it?

I mean i really just want to stamp/needle ONE SCAR, that is on a part of my face which doesnt both me too much. So i can see how it goes without the risks..

Go for it man, just make sure it truely is indented and test that patch out, don't touch the rough skin there should be abetter less invasive treatment for that. but that isn't my specialty! haha

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Guest Timehealsall
I'm predicting her scars have improved but still not as much as she wanted. Judging from the pics from a couple weeks ago her scars have improved a bit from her dry needling treatment and as the weeks roll by the collagen will kick in and start forming progressively throughout the weeks. She's probably pretty happy with her results, but for optimum results (and who knows since her scars are shallow, they may eventually dissappear besides a slight indention for 1 or 2 of her deeper scars) she would have to repeat this needling process several more times. Once she's done this procedure several more times I honestly think her scars would be almost gone since they are all so shallow, the only signs of scaring she would have left is a slight indention or two from the deeper scars. That's my two cents since my scars are very similar in that they also are shallow, and I'm treating them with a derma stamp, hope you keep us updated and congrats!

what about those of us who have slight indentation? Can needling completely get rid of these?

There are no guarentees obviously but I think so if you treat it often enough and not too intensely the slight indentations can completely disappear. That's how my system works, the shallower the scar, the better the chance of it completely disappearing. I've been dermastamping for not that long and my shallow boxcar scar is rapidly reducing in length, and yes i've passed the micro swelling stage. Time, i recommend you use a 1mm derma roller (if you have rough looking skin throughout your problem areas) or a 1mm derma stamp (this is very useful in targeting individual areas). Why 1mm? Well if you only have slight indentation (which im guessing is less than 1mm) then the 1mm stamp or roller should do you fine and if you constantly keep up treatment (i'd say you should stamp once every two weeks or maybe every week, but with only moderate intensity compared to stamping every month with intense power) your indents would probably disappear 6 months+ after starting your initial treatment plan, with good aftercare, you wouldn't have to deal with new scars either.

well, one area where i want to treat is my forehead. I have one actual indent (a saucer actually, or an IEXTREMELY shallow boxcar). I also have like literally a pinhead hole, but im nots ure if this is an acne scar, or if the discoloration makes it look pitted.

Does dermastamp help rough skin (not just scars), in general as well?

Or should i got the retinoid route

as long as you don't stamp too often, it should help rough skin too. But I would just stick with the retinoids maybe, you can try test stamping a certain patch of skin thats rough every two weeks and see if it has any effects. If you like the results, heck go for it!

just wondering.. but does rough skin have scar tissue to it?

I mean i really just want to stamp/needle ONE SCAR, that is on a part of my face which doesnt both me too much. So i can see how it goes without the risks..

Go for it man, just make sure it truely is indented and test that patch out, don't touch the rough skin there should be abetter less invasive treatment for that. but that isn't my specialty! haha

ill post a picture of it soon to show the scar. i wonder if it is a boxcar/icepick, or just a saucer

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