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Packerfan785

The wrong way of going about things

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Is anyone else tired of the way this forum operates? We try different nutrients, diets, lifestyles, etc. in order to try to cure our acne. Then we go off anecdotal evidence to justify these methods.

This is about the most inaccurate and least efficient way of finding a "holistic cure" as possible.

Why don't we focus our energy on the pathogenesis of acne, focus on pining down a better understanding of the mechanisms of acne. From this knowledge base we will almost certainly find a more effective way of treating/preventing our acne, and end this continuous searching for a needle in a haystack.

Edited by Packerfan785

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The reason we cannot find the pathogenesis for acne is because it effects everyone slightly differently.

the way i see it is, acne falls into different categories,

hereditary, diet, hormones

i know mine is hereditary as my dad, and granddad had acne till about 23-24

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The reason we cannot find the pathogenesis for acne is because it effects everyone slightly differently.

the way i see it is, acne falls into different categories,

hereditary, diet, hormones

i know mine is hereditary as my dad, and granddad had acne till about 23-24

How do we know acne falls into different categories? Do we have any proof?

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well proof for me is seeing how some people can eat what ever they like when they like, drink smoke drugs etc and have pretty flawless skin.

then there are those who eat so carefully and still only improve slightly to then break out again.

so in terms of diet i think this is proof enough.

then there is hormones, i think they are the no1 cause of acne. i don't understand them, but from what i know is that when they are out of balance i.e to much testosterone, things become messy. hence why if you take steroids the no1 side effect is acne...

then there is the hereditary,

i believe it is passed through the genetic make up. my dad had it bad as did my granddad from my mum's side of the family.

so i feel pretty stranded now in terms of having to wait it out for another few years, plus my elder sister has acne as do my youngest sister. they are both vegetarians out of choice ( i am not)

so again proving the diet theory wrong

plus i was late through puberty and was pretty clear my early teenage years

Edited by want2beme

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well proof for me is seeing how some people can eat what ever they like when they like, drink smoke drugs etc and have pretty flawless skin.

then there are those who eat so carefully and still only improve slightly to then break out again.

so in terms of diet i think this is proof enough.

then there is hormones, i think they are the no1 cause of acne. i don't understand them, but from what i know is that when they are out of balance i.e to much testosterone, things become messy. hence why if you take steroids the no1 side effect is acne...

then there is the hereditary,

i believe it is passed through the genetic make up. my dad had it bad as did my granddad from my mum's side of the family.

so i feel pretty stranded now in terms of having to wait it out for another few years, plus my elder sister has acne as do my youngest sister. they are both vegetarians out of choice ( i am not)

so again proving the diet theory wrong

plus i was late through puberty and was pretty clear my early teenage years

I understand some can eat whatever they want, and acne definitely seems to be hereditary, but none of that explains the true mechanisms behind acne.

You can't just say it is hereditary because that answers nothing. You can't just say its hormonal because that is unproven and is not specific enough to explain the pathogenesis of acne.

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well proof for me is seeing how some people can eat what ever they like when they like, drink smoke drugs etc and have pretty flawless skin.

then there are those who eat so carefully and still only improve slightly to then break out again.

so in terms of diet i think this is proof enough.

then there is hormones, i think they are the no1 cause of acne. i don't understand them, but from what i know is that when they are out of balance i.e to much testosterone, things become messy. hence why if you take steroids the no1 side effect is acne...

then there is the hereditary,

i believe it is passed through the genetic make up. my dad had it bad as did my granddad from my mum's side of the family.

so i feel pretty stranded now in terms of having to wait it out for another few years, plus my elder sister has acne as do my youngest sister. they are both vegetarians out of choice ( i am not)

so again proving the diet theory wrong

plus i was late through puberty and was pretty clear my early teenage years

I understand some can eat whatever they want, and acne definitely seems to be hereditary, but none of that explains the true mechanisms behind acne.

You can't just say it is hereditary because that answers nothing. You can't just say its hormonal because that is unproven and is not specific enough to explain the pathogenesis of acne.

correct it cannot explain anything. there has to be something causing it right? well i to would love to know the answer for that. and really i dont think it exists.

but, it must be hormones and hereditary in my case since both my dad and granddad out grew it mid 20's

so because of my body going through puberty late i feel this is the cause, my body needs to play catch up and deal with it.

probably going to try colostrum next for 2 months. that way i will know my gut is fine and healed 100% from my course of anti biotics for 5 months

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I think its almost all diet. Because diet effects your whole body. And there is something the bad diet is doing to people where people with acne are more vurnerable for (plz correct spelling). To screw up skincare is really a small part. And i have the feeling that things as sex and other hormone things also play a really smart role. Those 2 things you see with everybody. 2pimples every month maximal.

That everything is diet explains why much more people are getting it nowadays. But i cant understand how it stops with some people.

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The true mechanism of acne: pores get clogged with sebum and dead skin cells, bacteria invade and multiply, inflammation sets in.

Take out just one of the three components and you won't have acne.

Sebum (Accutane, for example)

Dead skin cells (exfoliation, retinoids, for example)

Bacteria (Benzoyl peroxide, for example)

Edited by assassin.

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The true mechanism of acne: pores get clogged with sebum and dead skin cells, bacteria invade and multiply, inflammation sets in.

Take out just one of the three components and you won't have acne.

Sebum (Accutane, for example)

Dead skin cells (exfoliation, retinoids, for example)

Bacteria (Benzoyl peroxide, for example)

yes that is scientifically the 3 principles of it, but whats the root. why are the pores getting blocked if you clean your face fine, have the best routine of washing toning and moisturising?

if you exfoliate everyday you will end up with really dry ruff skin which will cause more spots..

so how do you win

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Another cause is illness or allergies.

I think PackerFan is asking the right question, but unfortunately there are many possibilities of what might be causing a person's acne.

Bottom line: your body is trying to tell you something is wrong. Whether you are scrubbing your face too much or eating the wrong foods or experiencing an issue with your thyroid...something is not functioning properly and your body is trying to tell you.

Prescriptions like accutane or topicals for breakouts may help control the symptoms, but they will not cure the cause of acne. These 'medicines' are dangerous not only because they are toxic, but they may convince you that they are helping 'cure' your acne, when they are just covering up the real problem.

Like many of you, I spent a lot of time and money trying to self-diagnose myself. Please do not waste your time doing this. Find an experienced natural health or holistic consultant that will be able to get you the proper tests and determine the real cause of your acne. I went from having SEVERE acne to being pretty much clear in 4 months. No topicals, no prescriptions. And now I'm healthier than I have ever been.

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No matter what 'causes' your acne, that seems to first cause problems in the gut then that causes acne. Whether your acne is caused by genetics, diet, hormones, chemicals, etc all these factors will then manifest themselves into problems in your gut (the exception being cosmetic acne which is pretty easy to remedy). The worse these problems are for you the bigger workload your liver, intestines and digestive system has to deal with. The people who are lucky enough to eat and do whatever they want may be blessed with a strong immune and digestive system and are probably also doing things that help them with even knowing it.

Now if you feel like your doing everything right but still have acne then your body is telling you that the steps your taking arent as helpful as you think or you have a weak immune/ digestive system or both.

The key is to obviously try your best to elimate the causes that you can control and find a way to strengthen your gut to its potential to make it more capable of handling the pressure.

If youve had acne, chances are that before you even contemplated holistic health you went straight to antibiotics and other methods which more than likely have cause damage that you need to repair.

So no matter what the cause of your acne is, if your digestive system can effectively digest food and your immune system is effective at dealing with infection imo you shouldnt get acne.

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so pro biotics should make it disappear then?

Probiotics arent nearly strong enough and wont be able to REPAIR damage nor will they fight allergies or inflamation effectively. Even if your taking probiotics, antibiotics for example will still kill the friendly bacteria.

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Is anyone else tired of the way this forum operates? We try different nutrients, diets, lifestyles, etc. in order to try to cure our acne. Then we go off anecdotal evidence to justify these methods.

This is about the most inaccurate and least efficient way of finding a "holistic cure" as possible.

Why don't we focus our energy on the pathogenesis of acne, focus on pining down a better understanding of the mechanisms of acne. From this knowledge base we will almost certainly find a more effective way of treating/preventing our acne, and end this continuous searching for a needle in a haystack.

I gotta agree. At least 90% of this forum is speculation. The problem is that there is so little research out there on the effects of diet on acne. Even the study linking acne to a high glycemic diet is inconclusive because we don't know if the low gi group cleared up because of their lowg gi diet, or because they lost more weight than the high gi group. And as was already said, people seem to respond differently to different diets, which makes things even more confusing.

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Do some research. Don't put too much faith into what research you find because I have personally found that what works or doesn't work for me is not always consistent with modern "science," especially with what my dermatologist has said. Try different things out and see what works for YOU. At the end of the day if it only works for you then that's the way it is. Everyone's body is different.

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I think it's all about candida/yeast.. And acne is just a indication that you have to much yeast in your body. And why does some people grow out of it? Maybe beacause the sebum production stops and the signs dissapear but you still have to much yeast in your body...

It's like if you have an oil-lamp on your car wich lights up (acne breakout) when the oil gets dirty and gets even lighter when the oil gets more dirty.If you dont have that lamp (no sebum production or no acne prone skin etc.) You will hardly notice the oil getting dirty wich means the car cant preform 100% (your body getting weaker and cant preform 100%) until its to late and by that i dont mean you will die but it will be harder to repair the engine the further you go around with dirty oil. when the lamp starts to light up(an acne break out) you could either smash the lamp (use benzoyle peroxide, vitamin b5 etc.) or you could change the oil (Start a good diet and vitamins etc.) or do both cuz then u dont have to see the stupid oil lamp (acne) but your oil will still be fine and your car wont breakdown. And if you somehow forget to change the oil in time (eating some bad shit for a weekend) you dont have to see that lamp(acne) but you know that you must change the oil again(start a good diet again).

And why some people have more acne then others? Either they have a more sensetive sebum production or more yeast in their bodies.

It's just what i think, i've read some books and stuff on acne and candida and haning around this forum for a while.

If you dont belive this wich i guess most people wont do just say why and i'll try to find some info why not belive it or stop beliving it...

:dance:

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Is anyone else tired of the way this forum operates? We try different nutrients, diets, lifestyles, etc. in order to try to cure our acne. Then we go off anecdotal evidence to justify these methods.

This is about the most inaccurate and least efficient way of finding a "holistic cure" as possible.

Why don't we focus our energy on the pathogenesis of acne, focus on pining down a better understanding of the mechanisms of acne. From this knowledge base we will almost certainly find a more effective way of treating/preventing our acne, and end this continuous searching for a needle in a haystack.

Speak for yourself. This forum 'operates' many ways and has a long history of people researching the pathogenesis of acne.

And we already have an extensive knowledge base. Some of it is in the pinned threads. Some very good threads unfortunately have been removed and you have to search. And, as someone else already pointed out, we don't all have the exact same set of circumstances going on in our bodies that produce the symptom of acne. There's all kinds of processes going on and your body has ways of adjusting to deal. Some have food intolerances and some don't. Some may have more impaired liver, adrenal, digestive, etc functions than others. Some have serious hormone issues beyond those stimulated by diet and stress.

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Is anyone else tired of the way this forum operates? We try different nutrients, diets, lifestyles, etc. in order to try to cure our acne. Then we go off anecdotal evidence to justify these methods.

This is about the most inaccurate and least efficient way of finding a "holistic cure" as possible.

Why don't we focus our energy on the pathogenesis of acne, focus on pining down a better understanding of the mechanisms of acne. From this knowledge base we will almost certainly find a more effective way of treating/preventing our acne, and end this continuous searching for a needle in a haystack.

Speak for yourself. This forum 'operates' many ways and has a long history of people researching the pathogenesis of acne.

And we already have an extensive knowledge base. Some of it is in the pinned threads. Some very good threads unfortunately have been removed and you have to search. And, as someone else already pointed out, we don't all have the exact same set of circumstances going on in our bodies that produce the symptom of acne. There's all kinds of processes going on and your body has ways of adjusting to deal. Some have food intolerances and some don't. Some may have more impaired liver, adrenal, digestive, etc functions than others. Some have serious hormone issues beyond those stimulated by diet and stress.

Can you prove any of that? Show me this information about the pathogenesis of acne, all I see is potential vitamins that could help.

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My derm told me acne can be CAUSED by almost anything, such as oily skin, a food allergy, hormonal imbalance, etc. But the part of your face that actually PRODUCES acne is your oil glands, so if you can shut them down you will stop your acne. If the accutane has a permanent effect, your oil glands will always be smaller than they were before your treatment and the acne will not be as severe.

Honestly, this is a site owned by a guy who had acne, took accutane, and found a regimen that really worked for him. He is not a doctor, and if you watch a lot of the videos, his answer to a lot of the questions asked is "I don't know." If anything, I think this site is great for emotional support and advice, but find a doctor you trust and like and get your info from them.

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What does acne have to do with your oil glands?

where do you find these loser doctors

Oil + bacteria = inflammation

To the OP-- posters like these are the reason you should get all medical recommendations from a doctor, and not trust random people on the internet with your health.

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What does acne have to do with your oil glands?

where do you find these loser doctors

Oil + bacteria = inflammation

To the OP-- posters like these are the reason you should get all medical recommendations from a doctor, and not trust random people on the internet with your health.

:wub: love ya... soo aive

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Speak for yourself. This forum 'operates' many ways and has a long history of people researching the pathogenesis of acne.

And we already have an extensive knowledge base. Some of it is in the pinned threads. Some very good threads unfortunately have been removed and you have to search. And, as someone else already pointed out, we don't all have the exact same set of circumstances going on in our bodies that produce the symptom of acne. There's all kinds of processes going on and your body has ways of adjusting to deal. Some have food intolerances and some don't. Some may have more impaired liver, adrenal, digestive, etc functions than others. Some have serious hormone issues beyond those stimulated by diet and stress.

Can you prove any of that? Show me this information about the pathogenesis of acne, all I see is potential vitamins that could help.

Well, I'm pretty sure I've answered this and similar questions asked by you over and over in the past. There's numerous studies on various factors involved in acne, and the nutrients and habits that affect those factors right there in the pinned clinical studies thread. Along with links to lengthy articles. And all of that has been included in tons of other threads. And I've gathered links to tons of great discussion threads, articles and studies in the Good Things thread in my signature.

Edited by alternativista

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