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I came across this article today and even though it isnt a highly credible website it still made a lot of sense and had an interesting study..

Extended use of benzoyl peroxide (BP), antibiotics and hormones in rosacea and acne treatment may lead to demodicosis (demodex). The latest study conducted by Canadian group of scientists suggest that most affected group of people to develop demodex are rosacea and acne sufferers. As they use chemicals as often as 2 - 3 times a day in rosacea and acne treatment daily regiment.

The direct connection between the use of antibiotics and chances to develop demodicosis, has recently alarmed many people with acne and rosacea. One of the main reasons for the demodex mites start multiplying increasingly creating the demodecosis ( uncontrollable grow of demodex mites ) is weak immune system.

Demodex mites always live in hair follicles. Even people in good shape and health have demodex mites. The strong and healthy skin immune system prevents the demodex mites from growing uncontrollably. As the skin immune system start slowly lose its strength the demodex mites start to multiply.

________________________________________________________________________

Now I can conclude a couple things from this from.

1. This explains the theory of my brother doesnt use anything on his face and its clear, but im using bp and clindamycin on my face and i still break out

2. Its hard to quit Benzoyl peroxide and topical/oral antibiotics.

3. And personally, i know when you quit benzoyl peroxide after an extended amount of use you start breaking out and have a bunch of dry flakey, oily, crappy skin. This could be becuase you were suppressing the mites when you were on the BP, but now since your off your bodies immune system cant keep up and the mites flourish.

Possible solution: Sulfur, permethrin, TTO, basically anything that is a mite/demodex killer

Edited by hackattack

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There are two things that are vital for healthy skin; #1- proper pH, and #2- proper moisture.

pH-

First of all, your skin is the largest organ of your body. On top of your skin you have an extremely thin film of protection called the acid mantle. I like to think of this as your skins immune system because it acts as a barrier to bacteria, viruses, and other potentially harmful contaminants. The acid mantle is your first line of defense. Therefore, it is VERY important to never disrupt it.

It is also important to keep your skin at its proper pH. On a scale of 0-14 (0 being the most acidic, 7 being neutral, and 14 being the most basic) the pH of your skin is at about 5.5, which is slightly acidic. Proper pH balance helps your skin to shed its dead skin cells at an even rate, getting rid of black heads and resulting in a desirable healthy glow!

Moisture-

I don’t care who you are, or what your ‘skin type’ is… your skin NEEDS naturally occurring oil!!! Now, I know you think I’m crazy (especially if you already have an oily complexion or acne), but it’s true. Your skin produces sebum (oil) to remain soft, supple, and flexible. It helps your skin to heal, and prevents wrinkles. If you remove oil from your skin, then your glands will desperately try to replace its precious oil by over-producing sebum, CAUSING an oily complexion, and often clogging pores (resulting in acne). So NEVER remove your precious sebum in the first place! Instead, add natural and organic oils to calm your skin. Doing so will actually PREVENT oily (as well as dry) skin, heal imperfections, and help with acne!!! I PROMISE.

-Don’t wash your skin with soaps or face washes, they can be too basic for your skin and will disrupt the acid mantle. Instead, look into the Oil Cleansing Method

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/oil+clean...method-tag.html

-Do not use any astringents or toners containing which hazel. Doing so will strip the sebum from your skin, causing oily skin.

-Moisturize with naturally occurring oils.

-If you have bad acne, use 2.5% BP. As long as you’re keeping everything else in check, BP won’t be a problem…

As for antibiotics, I haven’t researched them. My own personal preference is not to use them long term.

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I don’t care who you are, or what your ‘skin type’ is… your skin NEEDS naturally occurring oil!!! ... Your skin produces sebum (oil) to remain soft, supple, and flexible. It helps your skin to heal, and prevents wrinkles. If you remove oil from your skin, then your glands will desperately try to replace its precious oil by over-producing sebum, CAUSING an oily complexion, and often clogging pores (resulting in acne). So NEVER remove your precious sebum in the first place! Instead, add natural and organic oils to calm your skin. Doing so will actually PREVENT oily (as well as dry) skin, heal imperfections, and help with acne!!! I PROMISE.

-Do not use any astringents or toners containing which hazel. Doing so will strip the sebum from your skin, causing oily skin.

You've stepped WAAAY over the line, pal. Sebum doesn't do any of things you said above. You're utterly misinformed. If you had been bothering to read the other threads on this site, you'd understand why your claims above are laughable.

Start reading, and GET INFORMED.

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There are two things that are vital for healthy skin; #1- proper pH, and #2- proper moisture.

pH-

First of all, your skin is the largest organ of your body. On top of your skin you have an extremely thin film of protection called the acid mantle. I like to think of this as your skins immune system because it acts as a barrier to bacteria, viruses, and other potentially harmful contaminants. The acid mantle is your first line of defense. Therefore, it is VERY important to never disrupt it.

It is also important to keep your skin at its proper pH. On a scale of 0-14 (0 being the most acidic, 7 being neutral, and 14 being the most basic) the pH of your skin is at about 5.5, which is slightly acidic. Proper pH balance helps your skin to shed its dead skin cells at an even rate, getting rid of black heads and resulting in a desirable healthy glow!

Moisture-

I don’t care who you are, or what your ‘skin type’ is… your skin NEEDS naturally occurring oil!!! Now, I know you think I’m crazy (especially if you already have an oily complexion or acne), but it’s true. Your skin produces sebum (oil) to remain soft, supple, and flexible. It helps your skin to heal, and prevents wrinkles. If you remove oil from your skin, then your glands will desperately try to replace its precious oil by over-producing sebum, CAUSING an oily complexion, and often clogging pores (resulting in acne). So NEVER remove your precious sebum in the first place! Instead, add natural and organic oils to calm your skin. Doing so will actually PREVENT oily (as well as dry) skin, heal imperfections, and help with acne!!! I PROMISE.

-Don’t wash your skin with soaps or face washes, they can be too basic for your skin and will disrupt the acid mantle. Instead, look into the Oil Cleansing Method

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/oil+clean...method-tag.html

-Do not use any astringents or toners containing which hazel. Doing so will strip the sebum from your skin, causing oily skin.

-Moisturize with naturally occurring oils.

-If you have bad acne, use 2.5% BP. As long as you’re keeping everything else in check, BP won’t be a problem…

As for antibiotics, I haven’t researched them. My own personal preference is not to use them long term.

[/quote

yea, as bryan already stated, do a little reading before you start telling people misinformation. You just sound uneducated and ignorant. Sebum (oil) does nothing for your skin.

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yea, as bryan already stated, do a little reading before you start telling people misinformation. You just sound uneducated and ignorant. Sebum (oil) does nothing for your skin.

The funniest thing he said in his entire post was the following gem, which caused me to burst out laughing:

"If you remove oil from your skin, then your glands will desperately try to replace its precious oil by over-producing sebum, CAUSING an oily complexion, and often clogging pores (resulting in acne). So NEVER remove your precious sebum in the first place!"

"Precious oil" and "precious sebum"?? That came close to rupturing me! That's very reminiscent of the funny line about "precious bodily fluids" from the old movie Dr. Strangelove! :D :lol:

I expect statements like that from newbies occasionally, who don't know any better than just to keep repeating popular misconceptions and Urban Myths. But what puzzles me about that guy is that he's been around for nearly five months. Shouldn't he be expected to pick up some of this new information over that much time? :) I personally have been talking about this stuff here on this site for over FIVE YEARS, yet for all the good I've done with these new posters, sometimes it seems like I just showed up today! :doh:

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yea, as bryan already stated, do a little reading before you start telling people misinformation. You just sound uneducated and ignorant. Sebum (oil) does nothing for your skin.

Are you sure it does nothing?

Sebum acts to protect and waterproof hair and skin, and keeps them from becoming dry, brittle and cracked by dehydration. It can also inhibit the growth of some microorganisms (such as some bacteria) on the skin.

Source:

http://www.wellsphere.com/exercise-article...ily-skin/387647

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Sebum acts to protect and waterproof hair and skin, and keeps them from becoming dry, brittle and cracked by dehydration. It can also inhibit the growth of some microorganisms (such as some bacteria) on the skin.

Source:

http://www.wellsphere.com/exercise-article...ily-skin/387647

Here's another quotation from that same site:

"Do not wash your face more than two or three times a day, or you will stimulate your glands to produce more oil. If your face feels dry your glands will produce more oil."

What bullshit! Anytime you see something that stupid on one of those skin-care sites, you can rest assured that they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Avoid.

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Sebum does nothing for your skin?

Nothing? You're claiming this and calling other people "misinformed"? Then why do our bodies produce it in the first place? Without natural occurring oils on our bodies, our skin could not survive and we'd be dead.

Please, get your facts straight before you start making stupid claims.

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since u said ur brother have clear skin without using anything, then don use anything ur only wasting money on stuff that doesn CURE ur acne

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Sebum does nothing for your skin?

No. Nothing at all.

Nothing? You're claiming this and calling other people "misinformed"?

Yes.

Then why do our bodies produce it in the first place?

Long ago, earlier in our evolutionary history, there _may_ have been a purpose for sebum, but that time has long since passed. Nowadays they are just "living fossils" (see the excerpt from the review article below).

Without natural occurring oils on our bodies, our skin could not survive and we'd be dead.

LOL!! We'd actually be DEAD, without that "precious sebum"? :D :lol:

Below is an excellent review article written by a group of dermatologists, and published in a medical journal (their reference is included at the end):

"Sebum Secretion and Sebaceous Lipids", Stewart et al, Dermatologic Clinics -- Vol. 1, No. 3, July 1983.

"Sebum is an oily substance that is secreted onto the skin surface from glands located in the dermis. Although a number of useful functions have been proposed for sebum, proof that sebum performs any of them is lacking. In furred mammals an essential function of sebum is to supply 7-dehydrocholesterol, which is converted to vitamin D by the action of sunlight and then ingested by the animal as it grooms itself. In man, however, the location of 7-dehydrocholesterol has been shown to be the epidermis rather than sebum. Sebum may act as a waterproofing agent for fur, but humans obviously have little need for this function. Kligman has specifically disproved the notions that sebum improves the barrier function of skin, that sebum helps to regulate the water content of the horny layer by forming emulsions with sweat, or that sebum on the skin surface is fungistatic or antibacterial.(21) Kligman regards the human sebaceous glands as 'living fossils' that lost their usefulness to our species as we lost our fur.(21)

(21) Kligman, A. M.: The uses of sebum? In Montagna, W., Ellis, R. A., and Silver, A. F. (eds.): Advances in the Biology of Skin. Volume 4. Oxford, Pergamon Press, 1963."

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Your right, I have been on this site since July, and my skin has completely cleared up because of my findings. I don’t have bumps, black heads, zits, red mark, dry skin, or oily skin. My skin is ‘soft as a baby’s bottom’, I have minimal scarring, and my skin really just glows!

Congratulations on getting rid of your acne, but that's not really what we were talking about. We were having some fun with the embarrassingly outdated things you said specifically about sebum, not acne.

Check back in with me every now and then. I WILL prove my theories because I want everyone to have a beautiful complexion!

Hey, good luck on proving the things you said! I suggest you pack a HUGE lunch for that enterprise! :)

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Your right, I have been on this site since July, and my skin has completely cleared up because of my findings. I don’t have bumps, black heads, zits, red mark, dry skin, or oily skin. My skin is ‘soft as a baby’s bottom’, I have minimal scarring, and my skin really just glows!

Congratulations on getting rid of your acne, but that's not really what we were talking about. We were having some fun with the embarrassingly outdated things you said specifically about sebum, not acne.

Check back in with me every now and then. I WILL prove my theories because I want everyone to have a beautiful complexion!

Hey, good luck on proving the things you said! I suggest you pack a HUGE lunch for that enterprise! :)

I know you are being facetious, but thank you. I’ll be sure to pack a HUGE lunch, lol. So how does skin heal it’s self and keep from being dry? I really don’t see how skin could be so beautiful without sebum. I’m not challenging, just wondering.

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So how does skin heal it’s self and keep from being dry? I really don’t see how skin could be so beautiful without sebum. I’m not challenging, just wondering.

It's the internal structure of the outer laters of the skin which maintains its moisture content, including (among other things) the tightly overlapping dead skin cells of the stratum corneum, and the ceramides, which are lipid derivatives which help block moisture loss (no, they have nothing to do with sebum).

Again I'm going to say that I'm puzzled that you've been around here for several months, but you STILL apparently haven't seen any of the threads and conversation about prepubertal children, who make no measurable sebum at all! Do you think that those young children have tremendous problems with dry skin? Do you think young children don't have beautiful skin? Haven't these very important and confounding (confounding for YOU) questions ever occurred to you before?

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Sebum does nothing for your skin?

Nothing? You're claiming this and calling other people "misinformed"? Then why do our bodies produce it in the first place? Without natural occurring oils on our bodies, our skin could not survive and we'd be dead.

Please, get your facts straight before you start making stupid claims.

Maybe you should do your research before you resort to bashing someone. This post was pathetic.

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Sebum does nothing for your skin?

Nothing? You're claiming this and calling other people "misinformed"? Then why do our bodies produce it in the first place? Without natural occurring oils on our bodies, our skin could not survive and we'd be dead.

Please, get your facts straight before you start making stupid claims.

Maybe you should do your research before you resort to bashing someone. This post was pathetic.

actually bryan is right. sebaceous glands are there in the skin for reason. there are many functions of the gland for example, lubrication, moisturizer, protection, anti-bacterial (to some extent), etc. the guy knows what he is talking about actually. so packerfan, you should be the one who should look up facts before calling people out.

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Sebum is nothing but an unnecessary frustration and pain in life. It has zero "moisturizing" effects; your skin feels too dry/tight because you need to exfoliate dead skin cells that have gathered and sit on your skin for too long, not because you are lacking in sebum.

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Here's another quotation from that same site:

"Do not wash your face more than two or three times a day, or you will stimulate your glands to produce more oil. If your face feels dry your glands will produce more oil."

What bullshit! Anytime you see something that stupid on one of those skin-care sites, you can rest assured that they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Avoid.

Source for backing the claim that that's "bullshit"? Just curious.

On another note I found this interesting:

The sebum excretion rate of subjects with constitutional eczema was no different from that of a matched group of controls. This would suggest that one reason for the reduced incidence of acne amongst atopic subjects is partly determined by the low sebum excretion rate.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal...=1&SRETRY=0

This further backs the notion that sebum does not in fact help retain moisture in the skin.

Then this website claims sebum makes one less prone to signs of aging including wrinkles. However it explains that this is because sebum helps "to keep precious moisture locked in the epidermis, or outermost layer of the skin," which appears to be false if we go by Kilgman's conclusions.

http://skin-care.health-cares.net/oily-skin-care.php

Bryan, does Kligman say anything interesting in regards to acne in that paper?

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Source for backing the claim that that's "bullshit"? Just curious.

To see the most important scientific evidence that refutes the "feedback theory", see the original thread I started five years ago when I first started posting here: "The myth of skin washing and sebum production". Here's the direct link to that thread:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/myth-skin...ebu-t35818.html

On another note I found this interesting:

The sebum excretion rate of subjects with constitutional eczema was no different from that of a matched group of controls. This would suggest that one reason for the reduced incidence of acne amongst atopic subjects is partly determined by the low sebum excretion rate.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal...=1&SRETRY=0

This further backs the notion that sebum does not in fact help retain moisture in the skin.

I wish I could read the whole thing, but that link doesn't work for me.

Then this website claims sebum makes one less prone to signs of aging including wrinkles. However it explains that this is because sebum helps "to keep precious moisture locked in the epidermis, or outermost layer of the skin," which appears to be false if we go by Kilgman's conclusions.

http://skin-care.health-cares.net/oily-skin-care.php

Here's another quotation from that same site: "Don't use an alcohol-based products -- if you strip too much oil from your face, the skin will overcompensate and produce even more oil."

Why oh why do people STILL keep posting that crap about the feedback theory, more than 50 years after it was soundly disproved? I use that as my own personal litmus test for credibility: if one of these "skin care" sites that people are always posting here ever say something like the above statement, I simply close it out and ignore it. Clearly, they are more than 50 years behind the times! :wall:

Bryan, does Kligman say anything interesting in regards to acne in that paper?

Which specific paper are you talking about?

Edited by bryan

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